Dat presidential-debate

[tp4tissue]

So,  if people don't agree on what is real,  you can say and do anything, and that's the root of imperialist power.

[Rhienfo]

That debate was so cooked. It wasn't even good for trump, but joe biden looked so banned it's sending every democrat into a frenzy.

It was pretty funny to see dems panic because how did they not see this coming, and why didn't they listen to people who said he was too old to run. He needs to step down otherwise dems are just not winning.

[chyros]

Take these poor old men and stick them in an old people house already, they're falling apart D; .

[fohat.digs]

President Biden was sick with a sore throat but he soldiered through anyway. And his answers were thoughtful and informed.

Nothing that Drumpf said was true. Nothing. All lies across the board. Check it out for yourself. And he also completely ignored the questions.

[Rhienfo]

President Biden was sick with a sore throat but he soldiered through anyway. And his answers were thoughtful and informed.

Nothing that Drumpf said was true. Nothing. All lies across the board. Check it out for yourself. And he also completely ignored the questions.

The sad thing is that if Joe Biden didn't look so bad, it would've have been a big victory for the dems. Like Trump was asked whether he would accept the results of the election and he just started rambling on about Russia and Putin. He said that illegal immigrants were taking "black jobs" which is crazy. He called Biden a "very bad Palestinian" which is just disgusting.

This should've been easy for Biden, trump was terrible that night and was just lying about everything, but Biden looked and sounded so incoherent that even mainline American news outlets like msnbc and CNN were calling it a disaster. I think it just shows that both of these candidates are way to old to run the country. It's in the democrats best interest to get Joe Biden to step down, it's just not a good look for the party to have him running again, no one wants to vote for some old man who looks like he has dementia and might not even make it 4 more years.

I mean they were arguing about golf stats at one point. Like that is so cooked.

[fohat.digs]

best interest to get Joe Biden to step down

Disagree entirely. Biden is perhaps the most experienced and knowledgeable president ever. Physical vigor is not a requirement in politics.

Besides, many of the media outlets are ignoring the fact that he was suffering from a sore throat, but he didn't dare "call in sick" as he should have.

[tp4tissue]

There really isn't a whole lot of difference between Biden and Trump. Trump wants gas and coal ok. More emissions for the next 50 years. Biden self proclaimed Capitalist wants electric. Same damn thing electrification is an intensifying event that increase emissions for the next 50  years. Take note we only have  at best 10 years to do a 180.

[noisyturtle]

hopefully I'll be dead soon

[Rob27shred]

There really isn't a whole lot of difference between Biden and Trump. Trump wants gas and coal ok. More emissions for the next 50 years. Biden self proclaimed Capitalist wants electric. Same damn thing electrification is an intensifying event that increase emissions for the next 50  years. Take note we only have  at best 10 years to do a 180.

It's basically the same dichotomy from South Park's huge douche vs. turd sandwich skit to me TBH. Also you're right about them arguing for the same thing, a lot of people don't get that higher electricity demands = more fossil fuel production & consumption. If you look at it right now it's estimated 60% of the electricity generated in the US is generated by fossil fuels so no amount of electric vehicles is gonna help with emissions. I know it's a cynical view, but I really believe the actual powers to be (corporations & the ultra wealthy) got politics right there want them. Huge divisions between parties over the most meaningless things & everything at a stalemate because of it. If I didn't know any better I'd think there was some evil genius super villain pulling the strings from behind the scenes, not just the happenstance outcome of greedy people doing greedy things... 

[noisyturtle]

The main difference is actually seeing the damage and divide in the country Trump's puppeted reign had in such a short time. I stopped reading the news entirely because it was just horrible **** happening on a near daily biases. I'd never in my life seen so much vitriol, hate, and separation created in such a small amount of time. That is when I decided he cannot be good for the country, but was totally shocked when his treachery, gaslighting, and destruction garnered even more support. Trump really brought out the crazies and gave them a voice, it's like something out of a tv show.

I truly believe the main goal of his administration was to rile conservatives up and create a greater divide amongst US citizens, and they did that very well.

[fohat.digs]

super villain pulling the strings from behind the scenes, not just the happenstance outcome

There was a seismic shift in the late 1970s when everything got exponentially worse.

There was a series of cascading events that lurched our society drastically rightwards.

Here is a good overview:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30011020-democracy-in-chains

[tp4tissue]

Tp4 doesn't think anything's changed, imperialism/capitalism only has 1 outcome. Humanity was always going to turn out like this.

[chyros]

super villain pulling the strings from behind the scenes, not just the happenstance outcome

There was a seismic shift in the late 1970s when everything got exponentially worse.

There was a series of cascading events that lurched our society drastically rightwards.

Here is a good overview:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30011020-democracy-in-chains

Interesting, I might have to give that a read. Probably a bit biased, but worth entertaining the gist.

[Rob27shred]

super villain pulling the strings from behind the scenes, not just the happenstance outcome

There was a seismic shift in the late 1970s when everything got exponentially worse.

There was a series of cascading events that lurched our society drastically rightwards.

Here is a good overview:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30011020-democracy-in-chains

Interesting, I might have to give that a read. Probably a bit biased, but worth entertaining the gist.

It is a good read though, definitely food for thought but like you said gotta take it with a grain of salt as with anything nowadays.

[chyros]

So I thought Biden and Trump were too old, then someone pointed this guy out to me:

Why is the US run by mummified corpses? Oo Surely among 300 million people you can find better people to run your country than this oO .

[fohat.digs]

Why is the US run by mummified corpses?

Our system of government was brilliant and state-of-the-art when it was written at the end of the agrarian Age of Enlightenment and just before the Industrial Revolution, but a set of "poison pills" were installed to accommodate the Institution of Slavery.

Although the Civil War began the emancipation of the enslaved, artifacts remained (eg the Senate, the Electoral College, the nearly insurmountable barriers to amending the Constitution, etc) that have nearly crippled our ability to realistically govern ourselves in the modern world.

But the icing on the poison cake is a Supreme Court who subscribe to the words of Grover Norquist:
"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."

[kurplop]

It’s certainly time to remove the dinosaurs from public office. There is so much dishonesty in America’s partisan landscape. For me, it was refreshing that the mainstream media finally came out and agreed to be honest about Biden’s limitations. Whether from political interest to remove him before the convention or simply to save face, the media is finally facing the undeniable truth about the President. Finally, the progressives are faced with an impossible choice; vote for someone that is dangerously incompetent and unsuitable or let the side whose ideology you find abhorrent win. Welcome to the dilemma that reluctant Trump voters have faced for the last three cycles.

[chyros]

Weird question perhaps but why not just make it impossible to hold office when you've reached pension age? '

[kurplop]

Probably because it would be seen as ageism. One would think that the population would be able to discern the fitness of a candidate. That has not been the case as evidenced by McConnell and Biden. Say what you will about Trump’s unsuitability for office but he hasn’t shown the common signs of age related senility.

[fohat.digs]

why not just make it impossible to hold office when you've reached pension age?

Because politics is an arena where wisdom and experience are paramount, and these attributes accumulate with age.

An airplane pilot needs fast reliable reflexes for obvious reasons, but a political leader does not make quick independent decisions without input from a team of knowledgeable advisors, and physical prowess is almost irrelevant.

And besides, there is a primed successor already installed and ready.

[chyros]

Probably because it would be seen as ageism. One would think that the population would be able to discern the fitness of a candidate. That has not been the case as evidenced by McConnell and Biden. Say what you will about Trump’s unsuitability for office but he hasn’t shown the common signs of age related senility.

It's difficult to say, he's been spouting so much inane babble and utterly nonsensical drivel for years now that it's hard to say whether it's due to senility or not.

I guess you're right, though. He doesn't appear actually infirm like Biden is. I think I'd be less mortified if we COULD blame senility for everything he's said, but I'd concede that point.

why not just make it impossible to hold office when you've reached pension age?

Because politics is an arena where wisdom and experience are paramount, and these attributes accumulate with age.

An airplane pilot needs fast reliable reflexes for obvious reasons, but a political leader does not make quick independent decisions without input from a team of knowledgeable advisors, and physical prowess is almost irrelevant.

And besides, there is a primed successor already installed and ready.

Ehh, I dunno, man. Sure, wisdom comes with age, but even there, there is a definitive prime point, and it's not the second before you die. Plus, a wise leader definitely needs to be able to see the bigger picture, and all facets involved; a difficult taks for even the best of us, yet absolutely paramount for a leader. These guys quite literally have difficulty finishing the sentence they are in. I honestly think this level of decrepity in a position of power, let alone one in the most powerful country on earth, is indefensible.

I also don't understand the ageist thing. I work at a university, and when you reach pension age, you're out, no question about it. It's possible to stay on as a guest sometimes, in an informal capacity, and some keep doing that until basically their deaths. But nothing official, and certainly not in any position of power. My mother worked at the council over in Amsterdam, it's the same there apparently. And sure, some people are sharp as a knife even at 90, but you need to draw the line somewhere. The alternative is worse.

[fohat.digs]

there is a definitive prime point, and it's not the second before you die

I would strongly disagree with your term "definitive" !

Whatever that tipping point is, it varies wildly from person to person. And just as the seasons change sluggishly after the solstices, you don't turn into an idiot overnight. The back side of the curve still provides value for quite a while.

Frankly, I feel that I could do that job better today than at any previous point in my life, even though I turned 72 a couple of weeks ago. True, I am not at my peak physically (that happened at about age 28 .... ) but leadership is not a physical job.

[kurplop]

I will be 70 next month and I believe age can bring an accumulated knowledge and experience base that can be a valuable asset. I also know that the years take their toll on mental acuity and alacrity to assess constantly changing circumstances in an instant. Things like eyesight, physical vigor, neurological response time, and recall tend to suffer over the years. Unfair or not, the world judges its leaders on such trivialities as physical height, a rich speaking voice, and other qualities of presence. A certain vibrancy from a head of state is vital (even if your handlers are pulling your strings and making your decisions).

I don't fault either Trump or Biden for their megalomaniac tendencies; it seems to be a character prerequisite when running for high office. I wish the American public had two better options though. For those of you who watch U.S. affairs from afar, I don't fault you for either laughing or crying about this broken system. There is clearly a civil war of ideas happening here with both (if there are only two) sides entrenched in their short-sightedness, and both unwilling to compromise.

[tp4tissue]

@ kurplo,  that's expecting too much, presidents, ceos, leaders are just normal flesh bag humans, less than 1% smarter than the next. They're as myopic as any.

[chyros]

there is a definitive prime point, and it's not the second before you die

I would strongly disagree with your term "definitive" !

Whatever that tipping point is, it varies wildly from person to person. And just as the seasons change sluggishly after the solstices, you don't turn into an idiot overnight. The back side of the curve still provides value for quite a while.

Frankly, I feel that I could do that job better today than at any previous point in my life, even though I turned 72 a couple of weeks ago. True, I am not at my peak physically (that happened at about age 28 .... ) but leadership is not a physical job.

It definitely varies from person to person, but we're not talking about a menial desk job, or even and advisor capacity. We're talking about the head of a nation here, a position which in the US comes with great responsibility and power. I genuinely refuse to believe either candidate is the best the nation has to offer.

[fohat.digs]

a menial desk job

the head of a nation

I agree with you to some degree, but I also submit that there are vanishingly few people in the world who possess Biden's depth of knowledge and experience.

[tp4tissue]

Tp4 speak to boss of bosses all day. Rest assured the vast majority all  drunk old guys with an undeserved/unreasonable amount of wealth and power. They will actually make many serious economic decisions while drunk.

[fohat.digs]

drunk old guys

At least this is not the case at the Presidential level.

There are countless other problems, but drinking is probably not one of them until you go down at least a level or 2.
 

[chyros]

a menial desk job

the head of a nation

I agree with you to some degree, but I also submit that there are vanishingly few people in the world who possess Biden's depth of knowledge and experience.

Oh you're probably right, and he himself had some quite strong points in that debate! It's a shame that his age is distracting from his prowess as a statesman. But it is.

[Rhienfo]

I agree with you to some degree, but I also submit that there are vanishingly few people in the world who possess Biden's depth of knowledge and experience.

That's technically true like he definitely has experience he's older than my grandmother but where does that knowledge come in when he's been wrong on most major issues during his career, he voted to keep schools segregated, he is a massive zionist (and his continued support for israel is wildly unpopular, especially among young people, it's an incredibly important issue for a lot of people). He said that wasn't big on abortion but roe v wade got it right and this was last year. Like his positions have always been the wrong one and when he agrees with something that is popular and benefitial to others it's usually in hindsight, like on same sex marriage. I know people can change their opinions but like a lot of these things are very obvious in hindsight, like voting to authorise the iraq war. You would think that someone so knowledgeable and experienced would recognise how the iraq didn't really have that great justifications even when they were lying but no he voted to go ahead with it anyway.

If the dems want to win he really needs to drop out and everyone but his supporters understand this for some reason. We have Ben Shapiro and other conservatives saying he should stay in because it would be easy for them to win (like it should be pretty obvious that he's not fit to run if their opponents want him to stay in). They were panicking after the debate because they were worried that someone better and younger would take over the candidacy. Dem donors are wishing he would die, a lot of people in the democratic party know that they won't win. He is not popular, there is little confidence in someone who can barely put sentences together and has broken quite a lot of promises, there are fewer abortion rights in America then when he started, even though he said that he would codify it into law.

It really infuriates me that the far right is gonna get even more power because of a narcissistic, slowly deteriorating man who wants to hold on to his power but won't make the obviously correct decision to drop out. The Dems are full of people like this, the only reason why conservatives have a majority in the Supreme Court is that Ruth Bader Ginsburg wouldn't retire cause she was a narcissistic and wanted to hold on to power for as long as her old bones could. And people wonder why I hate the dems because they keep doing stuff like this. And their ineptitude has real-world effects on people who I care about. It doesn't help that Joe Biden said "The younger generation now tells me how tough things are—give me a break... No, no, I have no empathy for it, give me a break." when things have only gotten more financially unstable for young people, the country has fewer protections than when millennials and gen z were born and fascists are continuing to expand their power and influence in America.

I'm sorry if this is angry but I really am tired of seeing people defend him, especially because I know the outcome here. The republicans will get elected if he continues to run and will make it worse for minority groups across America while making the country more fascist. Dems aren't that much better but they have a better policy than Project 2025 (which we now know that it's a policy by China and Russia to make the america worse and was written by members of Trump's cabinet, thanks gay furries I guess). And then they will somehow blame the left for this like they always do because the people who don't have the power are the issue always.

[tp4tissue]

Humans will be humans, Tp4 only wishes they'd eat less meat, because eating meat is just too climate destructive and therefore too stupid. 

What we do to animals, murder 80 billion of them per year, is far worse than the Israel committing genocide/nazi's holocaust/ all wars in recent memory, the fact that the public of humans do not see it that way, is because of blinding specism. Which in action, is again, far worse than any innate/basic racism.