Author Topic: Monitors suddenly goes black  (Read 16155 times)

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Offline Naweo

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Monitors suddenly goes black
« on: Thu, 08 July 2021, 05:58:10 »
Hey Geeks,

After scouring the internet for a while, I am suspecting a bad PSU and/or too-much consumption of power from one power outlet causes this issue.

The PC is a windows 10, 3070 GPU and newest 10k intel CPU, on windows 10.

I have a 4 monitor quad setup (2 of which are 4k) and every now and then, the monitors just go black, but sound and such is still on.

I do not see any errors under "manage PC"

I have tried to plug min laptops onto another power outlet, and I figured I may need to do the same with some of the monitors.

ALL four monitors goes black at the same time.

Any ideas?

Thank you

Offline yui

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 09 July 2021, 01:47:02 »
if only one or the oldest would do that on their own timing i would have suspected bad caps in the screen psu (start like that and end up blowing the internal fuse, fixed 4 screens with this exact problem), the fact that all 4 go black at once would steer me towards windows/drivers issues, hopefully, or dying GPU, or if you have everything plugged into the same socket, maybe, very very unlikely when the pc spikes in consumption (what the PSU should smooths, but cheap psu may not) it could create a mini localized brown out and your screens could crash (but then again their PSU should absorb it and not crash) so that would indicate you got some very cheap screens with bad PSU, a bad PSU in your PC and a bad powerstrip with too high resistance, so very unlikely.(if you plainly drew too much power from the wall your fuse/breaker should pop, so you would know, although if it is that change that powerstrip, if it has sufficient resistance to cause a localized brown out it could well also catch your house on fire with less sensitive equipment, )

TL;DR: i would reinstall drivers, then windows, then if you can check with and other GPU and only then worry about the mains power
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 09 July 2021, 06:43:32 »
Is this:
1 laptop/desktop with 4 external screens
1 laptop screen and 3 external screens
2 laptops with one external each

I need clearer understanding of the setup, also what type of cables you're using to each monitor. Could be driver, power or cables.
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Offline Stompy

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 09 July 2021, 07:12:45 »
Silly one, but I had this problem occasionally, fixed it by turning off slideshow backgrounds. I had a folder of wallpapers I was cycling through, and something about my setup didn't like it when it changed.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 06 August 2021, 15:26:59 »
Hello, its a PC setup with 4 monitors. Strong corsair 850 PSU and the PC is less than 5 months from newly built.

Will try to update drivers.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 31 August 2021, 02:46:55 »
It keeps happenning frequently again.

It usually happens right after turning on PC, and all 4 monitors goes "No signal detected" and I am forced to restart.

Any thoughts?

I did update nvidia drivers

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 31 August 2021, 03:15:53 »
Free fixes...
Try fewer screens, swap cables, see if there is a firmware or driver available from the manufacturers (screens have drivers and firmware, too!).

More screens can cause all sorts of weird things, 2 screens on my Intel gpu works fine, but if I add a third I can't see anything until the OS reaches desktop. Not even bios shows up. Disconnect one screen everything's fine. On my 1070, no issues with 3 screens.
 
Non free possibilities...
Your cables may be garbage and messing up the frequency/interference or your GPU may not like that many screens going through those specific ports, if you have any adapters, swap one cable to a different type port and see what it does.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 31 August 2021, 07:37:33 »

Your cables may be garbage


Mostly off-topic, but how does a cable that has worked fine for 2 years suddenly stop working properly? There are no moving parts and they seem to be completely static.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 31 August 2021, 08:55:05 »

Your cables may be garbage


Mostly off-topic, but how does a cable that has worked fine for 2 years suddenly stop working properly? There are no moving parts and they seem to be completely static.


OXIDATION

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 31 August 2021, 20:07:24 »
OXIDATION

and
Vibration leading to breaks
New outside interference
Component drift may finally reach a point all of the above reaches critical mass.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 12 September 2021, 02:26:09 »
None of the cables are the issue, as all monitors go black and none of them return to normal use once one monitor is supposedly blacked out as a result of the issue.

I still suspect a graphics / power issue

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 12 September 2021, 03:23:45 »
"All go black at the same time"
Exactly what mine did by simply having 1 too many screens and when I had one bad cable. They all feed from the same place. Try fewer screens, see if that helps, then reconnect until you see a problem. At least then you will have narrowed it down a little.


Ever wonder why the first things techs INSIST customers do is to check the cables and restart... Because everyone just assumes things are fine and don;t do it themselves. Don't rule things out without actually checking because otherwise you may just run around in circles looking for a problem in the wrong place.
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 September 2021, 03:29:33 by Leslieann »
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 07 October 2021, 03:33:03 »
I got some more data, as it only happens every 2 or 3 days or so:

1. It ONLY happens right after starting my computer. If my computer has succesfully been turned on for more than 1 hour, it never happens.
2. Turning the computer to sleep mode, then on, the issue persists and the screens do not even turn on.

Is this still potentially a faulty cable?

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 07 October 2021, 04:08:05 »
Sounds like a sleep issue.

This wouldn't happen to be DisplayPort?
I recently found it that while every other port, even when in standby or off would still show in the computer, on displayport when the screen goes in standby it's like disconnecting the cable.  Why did they make it this way, I have no idea but it's caused me and others a LOT of issues for me since I use only one screen for gaming and two for everything else. That other screen goes blank and wipes out all my icons and everything and has issues waking (but cold boots fine). The solution I took was to leave my primary on DisplayPort and my secondary on HDMI so it remained connected.

You might get away with using a displayport to dmi, and if needed converting back, since Displayport supports HDMI but no guarantees that fixes it.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 07 October 2021, 04:13:14 »
I have 4 monitors, 2 on displayport and 2 on HDMI.

YOu are telling me that using sleep function creates this problem?

I have to note, the issue happens also after a normal restart but within 15 minutes of boot.

The setup has worked for months like this without issues, so it has to be an isolated issue.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 08 October 2021, 03:10:34 »
It's probably a driver issue regarding DisplayPort sleep.

Good connector, no idea why they broke standards that have stood for decades.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 08 October 2021, 04:11:57 »
Any idea how to solve those driver issues?

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 08 October 2021, 04:18:19 »
Try older or newer.
Talk to the manufacturer?

Windows is reaching a point where your options become more and more limited by the day.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 10 October 2021, 09:32:49 »
I will try to resolve this over time. In the meantime, would it be fine to just leave the computer open without using sleep/hibernate function to avoid this issue? Maybe find a way to just make screens dim or go black to save power, and not use sleep/hibernate function which I am addicted to.

I restart my PC every 5 to 7 days anyway.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 10 October 2021, 22:36:44 »
That's not really going to save much power at all.
Depending on monitor type it could still lead to faster burn it.

One thing you may want to try first is update and rest your motherboard bios and set Windows back to default power settings and see if that helps. While unlikely, I have seen it fix some off power issues in the past.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 10 October 2021, 23:03:19 »
it's very hard to burn in an lcd unless it's running dark colors and HOT.


it's very easy to burn in oled with static elements at above 100nits.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 10 October 2021, 23:28:53 »
Hard, not impossible.
Leaving it on 24/7 is a good start.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 11 October 2021, 01:50:05 »
That's not really going to save much power at all.
Depending on monitor type it could still lead to faster burn it.

One thing you may want to try first is update and rest your motherboard bios and set Windows back to default power settings and see if that helps. While unlikely, I have seen it fix some off power issues in the past.

I will try.

However, something is funny when computer "goes to sleep" by itself after X amount of time, and then actually using the start menu to set computer to sleep. Is there any difference? Because behaviour seems much better if computer has gone to sleep by the automatic power setting

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 11 October 2021, 22:38:16 »
However, something is funny when computer "goes to sleep" by itself after X amount of time, and then actually using the start menu to set computer to sleep. Is there any difference? Because behaviour seems much better if computer has gone to sleep by the automatic power setting

Spontaneous is almost always one of three things:
Cable (strange if it's multiple)
Monitor (strange if it's multiple)
Interference


Just went back and re-read this whole thing...
All together, this screams bad PSU or incompatible one. It almost sounds like the 3080 power issue Nvidia solved with a driver update shortly after launch. I don't know or remember the fine details but if I remember right certain PSUs and GPU combos had issues, even if high end, brand new and working perfectly fine when tested on other systems. People first blamed the capacitors on the cards but Nvidia made a driver change and it was cleaned up long ago supposedly but I wonder if your PSU just has more ripple than most and when the screen saver starts it's ramping up power and that's when the GPU dumps. I would ask if it does similar when you launch a game but if you're only gaming on one screen it may not trigger the problem.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 12 October 2021, 02:13:47 »
I am only gaming on one screen

Thank you btw for taking time and investment into solving this issue.

I have never had problems except for within 5 to 10 minutes of booting my computer.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 12 October 2021, 09:03:19 »
You're welcome.

Only in the first 5-10 minutes or pretty much never after?
If it's truly ONLY in that time it's software, something running delayed on boot.
Could be something in Windows boot or Windows performing a system check that triggers a fault, Windows indexes the drive around this time, especially if idle, a failing drive (or drive corruption) would most likely be found during indexing and yet may not be enough to trigger a S.M.A.R.T. failure warning (if you have it enabled in bios). It could also be something you inadvertently installed or picked up with something else (like a pirated copy). Regardless the only consistent thing in that time frame is delayed Windows system operations and delayed software starts/update checks. Again this is ONLY if it's consistently happening in that time frame and almost never outside that time frame Updates and indexing can and do accurr outside that time frame, but at odd intervals


I know it seems like this goes around in circles at times but that's sometimes how troubleshooting is, especially intermittent problems and when I can't be at the system and have to rely on someone else.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 12 October 2021, 09:27:21 »
I would've thrown that computer out the window and bought a new one.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 29 October 2021, 02:36:20 »
I made a new discovery. The monitors don't go black. The computer also freezes. Definitely a bigger crash issue at play.

I was riding fine for 10 days straight. Maybe because the room temperature got colder into the winter?

Yes, it is truly within the first 15 minutes of computer waking up. It will never do it if I just leave the computer on overnight.

There are advantages to me leaving my computer on overnight. How big of a power issue would that be? I would restart the computer every 5 to 7 days regularly and just live with the problem.

I am considering running my system 24/7 and just restarting every 5-7 days. I wonder what is the best way to save power. Dim screen brightness and use the "log out" function on so all screens turn black? Other than that, I think my PC might run 10x more power at night than normally, so it might up my  electricity cost by 2x or 3x. But that's fine to be honest.
« Last Edit: Fri, 29 October 2021, 02:58:19 by Naweo »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 29 October 2021, 08:53:35 »
Temp could play a part in this, but it can also just be a change in your use pattern, and that extends all the way to what website you visit.

If if sleeps, not so big an issue, it should drop power draw down to 5-10watts, your screens at idle can actually use use more than the pc while sleeping. If you simply let it go idle and sleep the screens it can still idle at 80 watts or even more depending on what's in the system and how it's tuned. While not perfect by any means, but a simple equation is that 1watt running 24hours a day 365 days a year will cost $1 per year, so you can kind of figure your cost based on that but you will still need to know how many watts it's using at idle and sleep either by a Kill-a-watt, UPS with monitor or just research the parts themselves. Again, your screens are soaking more than you'd expect though (as can your audio).

The other issue is Windows.
It NEEDS a reboot once in a while, if you're a completely casual user, no gpu, just some browsing and Office, once a week is probably fine, but the fact that you're using so many screens tells me that's likely not the case.  And if you browse Reddit, oh boy... No, their website is a sh$t show and will decimate your system*.  I've never (even without Reddit) really been able to get more than a few days without a reboot to clear out the memory before I could tell something was not running as it should. I've seen people go months without and not see issues, but I could, the systems always run like garbage. Reboots are the biggest system tuning tool Windows has and I recommend people do it at least once a week at the longest, not the shortest.




*Reddit's front page and sections, how do I explain this... Each item shown is not just the item in the first post for each page, it loads the entire page and comments for each entry and auto loads/starts all videos and gifs. So as you scroll you're effectively loading more and more full pages and comments. Each video entry you see on the front page is like loading a page on Youtube, including comments.  And the poor programming doesn't stop there, it acts like it's creating a memory leak, possibly Java and possibly related to the compression algorithm they use to allow endless scroll (which needs to die!) and once it starts to drag down the system even closing the browser and reopening will not fully purge the cache of what it loaded and system speed will suffer as a result. Sometimes, if you catch it early enough it can revert some of it, but once you really see lag, odds are the only real fix is a system restart. Note this mostly applies to the desktop version in Chrome and Firefox, with only Mac being mostly exempt hence my suspicion about the cause. Other OS seem to deal with it better, as does Safari. Honestly, considering what it's doing, it's amazing it works as well as is does and the devs deserve respect for that, but whoever put them in this spot that this was the best solution needs to be fired for the decision.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 29 October 2021, 10:13:34 »
Get on Amazon, Purchase new computer and monitor.

When the order arrives,  Throw existing computer and monitor in the garbage.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 29 October 2021, 14:01:32 »
I will upgrade PC if it becomes a massive hazzle.

But I do not really plkay videogames, and most of my CPU and memory is below 20% load even after 5 days awake.

I suppose my PC + screens is more than 100 watts per hor in idle, but I have to leave my PC on 24/7 and deal with electricity costs if needs me. Its the only way.

Don't really seem to be able to fix.

Thanks for all help!

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 16 November 2021, 12:22:23 »
--- The issue now also happens when the PC is under load. So it seems to be something more hardware related, as i have crashed twice in 24 hours when PC is inside back 4 blood

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 16 November 2021, 19:21:59 »
Try removing the 3070.
You can daisy chain Displayport screens.

May have to cut refresh rates or even a screen, but try it for a few days and see if it happens without the GPU, at least then you can narrow it down some.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 16 November 2021, 20:17:49 »
make sure your cables are short and high quality.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 17 November 2021, 15:16:24 »
So far I am testing unplugging some of my monitors from the single power outlet from which I draw all my power.

If that doesn't work, I will try to remove the 3070. See if the issue then persists.

If it's just a cable issue, then why does all monitors go black? And computer kinda freezing up

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 22 November 2021, 02:32:50 »
make sure your cables are short and high quality.

The issue persisted even with other power outlet, but will test a bit more. Some of my cables are very long, and I do not trust them to be the highest quality. However, the actual computer freezes, so I wonder if the cables are only isolated to display, and not the actual PC freezing?

Nothing is overclocked either and I am not sure what to look for in event viewer

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 22 November 2021, 07:18:49 »
Nothing is overclocked either and I am not sure what to look for in event viewer


With today's motherboards,  STOCK is often a problem. Especially memory timings.

It may help to actually try to OC it and use fixed ratios. Manual timings.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 22 November 2021, 08:25:49 »

Some of my cables are very long


Electricity is tricky and finicky. You lose across every connection through every millimeter of length.

Grounding is sometimes the trickiest part of all, and in its more arcane minutiae some engineers consider it practically a dark art.
 
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 25 November 2021, 17:23:59 »
I found these "disk" erros right before the screens went black, this time after 6 hours of uptime on PC, so not after a boot.

Could this have something to do with it?

https://i.gyazo.com/df5cd2dc9d1a31722dd5ac05a94dfbc0.png

https://i.gyazo.com/60f65b2457460adcadabfc06a335bb58.png

https://i.gyazo.com/7a6e2b07af1ff3e1ac9a6178545895c9.png

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 25 November 2021, 18:41:31 »
That looks like a bad sata cable, however the fact that it's happening on two drives (or more) is not a good sign.
If it's losing all drives (you would need to check all of those messages) then it's not a cable or even two it's the raid card failing/overheating or a driver crashing and reloading. *

Depending on the drive, yes it could cause screens to go black, computers act odd when you yank drives, but I'm surprised it recovers.


*This can still very much go back to a bad PSU as well, people always underestimate the PSU in regards to problems.
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Offline yui

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 26 November 2021, 01:30:24 »
isn't sata supposed to be plug and play? outside of the main system disk i mean, i remember plugging and unplugging sata drives from windows 7 and linux machines without any trouble, windows 10 seems to be a bit more hit and miss with it, never managed to get a sata hot-plugged drive to be seen by it. but last time i had a system drive sata cable fail on me (i kinked it by mistake between the optical drive and the case) i was getting bsods not straight up black screens, but then i never experienced that fault on a pc with an nVidia GPU, so i do not knows what those drivers do when they lose resources.
to be honest i would more align with leslieann's PSU theory, when you get random failures all around your system the most logical common point is the psu, if it gives dirty power you gpu will crash (depending on it either giving black screen or freeze) and other components may crash, fail or report errors, could also provoke crashes when the 12V rail crashes, even if the power is usually clean, it is what happens to me with my 430W psu trying to power an R9 fury. could also be motherboard having some random glitches on the pci-e bus but that is rather unlikely as most of it is handled by the cpu nowadays.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 26 November 2021, 03:47:34 »
That looks like a bad sata cable, however the fact that it's happening on two drives (or more) is not a good sign.
If it's losing all drives (you would need to check all of those messages) then it's not a cable or even two it's the raid card failing/overheating or a driver crashing and reloading. *

Depending on the drive, yes it could cause screens to go black, computers act odd when you yank drives, but I'm surprised it recovers.


*This can still very much go back to a bad PSU as well, people always underestimate the PSU in regards to problems.

I will try to check for the event viewer when the crash happens, and return here.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 26 November 2021, 07:17:04 »
Keep in mind, I brought an SSD with windows from one PC to this one, so it might be something like that too.

If I don't find a comfy solution, I will try to just order a new PSU and see if it works.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 28 November 2021, 16:00:43 »
The computer actually freezes, and this time nothing in event log from what I can see.

I am using a 900w Universal Power Backup Supply that the whole system is plugged into. Is it possible that UPS is not delivering enough power to the PC?

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 28 November 2021, 18:20:42 »
Not likely.
Try without the UPS and see.

The fact that it's not writing to event log says it's hardware or extremely low level and crashing before it can register it.
Most UPS are rated in Volts and usually can power a PC, and it's only when it kicks to battery they fall short. It would also only be under powered under highest of loads.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 29 November 2021, 04:54:36 »
Well I have a 3070 GPU, 9900k CPU, and 4 monitors, of which 2 of them are 4k 42 inch, so I think it surpasses the 900 watt easily?

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 29 November 2021, 05:17:48 »
Not likely.
Try without the UPS and see.

The fact that it's not writing to event log says it's hardware or extremely low level and crashing before it can register it.
Most UPS are rated in Volts and usually can power a PC, and it's only when it kicks to battery they fall short. It would also only be under powered under highest of loads.

My PC under load would consume probably 500+ W alone, and my two monitors I have plugged in under the same 900W UPS has a max consumption of 400w. That alone is 900 watt.

I don't think the UPS delivers enough power?

Offline yui

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 29 November 2021, 08:13:08 »
monitors very rarely go above 50W you can check on the sticker, but i'd bet they would be far under that, and i have seen overloaded UPS, either the breaker inside trips, or the fuse if very old, or the relays weld themselves shut, it should never reset itself once overloaded, you should have to press a button or replace a fuse, or in case of welded contacts it will never stop beeping at you.
and in anyway if it would be to brownout (voltage dropping because of overload) your power-supply should detect it and shut the system down "gracefully" (aka fully shut down, not frozen), clearly it is not doing so.
while i was sysadmin we had a few peoples plug fans, vacuums and kettles in UPSs and blow them up like that, never with a pc, even though we had UPSs with 2 workstations (8core Xeons with Nvidia Quadro 4000 i think, been replaced since then so not quite sure) on one 550VA UPS
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 29 November 2021, 09:42:48 »
monitors very rarely go above 50W you can check on the sticker, but i'd bet they would be far under that, and i have seen overloaded UPS, either the breaker inside trips, or the fuse if very old, or the relays weld themselves shut, it should never reset itself once overloaded, you should have to press a button or replace a fuse, or in case of welded contacts it will never stop beeping at you.
and in anyway if it would be to brownout (voltage dropping because of overload) your power-supply should detect it and shut the system down "gracefully" (aka fully shut down, not frozen), clearly it is not doing so.
while i was sysadmin we had a few peoples plug fans, vacuums and kettles in UPSs and blow them up like that, never with a pc, even though we had UPSs with 2 workstations (8core Xeons with Nvidia Quadro 4000 i think, been replaced since then so not quite sure) on one 550VA UPS

Yes I see, so its a hardware problem and I should not waste money getting another UPS. You have any further ideas what I can do to fix this?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 29 November 2021, 11:01:54 »
The cpu and/or/andor ram are probably not stable in the stock configuration.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 29 November 2021, 11:05:19 »
The cpu and/or/andor ram are probably not stable in the stock configuration.

Yes could be. It feels like an overclock crash to be honest. What's your suggestion for a go-to walkthrough for a clock fix?

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 29 November 2021, 11:28:55 »
My PC under load would consume probably 500+ W alone, and my two monitors I have plugged in under the same 900W UPS has a max consumption of 400w. That alone is 900 watt.

I don't think the UPS delivers enough power?
When under normal conditions the UPS is simply passing AC current straight through, it shouldn't be current limited in the same as when running on battery.

Also while under load we rarely ever completely load a PC 100% except under benchmark/synthetic conditions, it's just not something that happens. Even if you try, odds of the load matching perfectly with your components without one or two bottlenecks somewhere are insanely rare. There's too many combinations of hardware and software for it to happen.

Also component ratings are considered worst case, not best case and is almost always have a large buffer. It's best to plan for that much power use, but the idea is to not need it.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 29 November 2021, 11:54:46 »
The cpu and/or/andor ram are probably not stable in the stock configuration.

Yes could be. It feels like an overclock crash to be honest. What's your suggestion for a go-to walkthrough for a clock fix?

google the chipset name, and overclock guide.

Set core voltage manually, set ram timings manually <you don't need all of them just the primary timings>

Set cpu ratio to fixed, set load line calibration to medium. 

Do some testing with prime 95,  DISABLE avx , by inserting    CpuSupportsAVX=0  into local.txt in the prime95 folder.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 29 November 2021, 12:14:21 »
Should be able to do that.

Is it normal for stock clocks on ram/cpus to not be stable?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 29 November 2021, 12:32:42 »
Should be able to do that.

Is it normal for stock clocks on ram/cpus to not be stable?

It's not uncommon. 

Nothing's normal in the real world.  we try to make all bricks the same but the reality is they differ, and a slight deviation could make it not fit.

Default motherboard settings have also gotten extremely convoluted. 

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 02:54:44 »
I got asrock z390

Will try 1.28v and 49 OC on my 9900k for cpu.


Any settings I missed?

For my 64 gb ddr4 2133 ram, I will find a guide. Any settings I need there?
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 November 2021, 03:22:59 by Naweo »

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 03:34:27 »
I will 24h test:

4.9 ghz at 1.3v with XMP 2.0 memory profile over nights for 24h. If stable, then I assumr my black screens are different issue

I haf 10700k, not 9900k.

So far did a 30m test with max temp of 76, 4.9 ghz on cpu, xmp 2 profile. Could not find intel C state to disable in asrock steel legend z390. 1.3v on CPU.

I see screens individually going black sometimes but no freezing.

I had my power circuit safety switch off, but might be cpincidence.

I will try to run prime 95 for at least a toral of 24h stable over a week or so and see what happens.

This is a screenshot of about 15 minutes of testing:

https://i.gyazo.com/284911ec3b9369c768b61c2ea054aadb.png
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 November 2021, 04:03:09 by Naweo »

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 04:03:40 »
Should be able to do that.

Is it normal for stock clocks on ram/cpus to not be stable?

It's not uncommon. 

Nothing's normal in the real world.  we try to make all bricks the same but the reality is they differ, and a slight deviation could make it not fit.

Default motherboard settings have also gotten extremely convoluted. 


Anything I should tweak or test? I primarily just want to find stability with the OC, not performance.

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 04:54:25 »
I'm not familiar with specifics of 10700k,  but, the all core turbo is not fixed in your screenshot. it's throttling.  Could be the avx divider, could be something else.

So whatever its doing, you're still testing a floating configuration,   and the problem with THIS on the modern platform is that the transient voltages cause crashes and black screens and all sorts of gremlins.

There's alot more homework required to doing the manual tuning / testing.  Think 10+ hours of reading notes, guides, voltage monitoring/ manipulation,     It's not a set it and run prime 95 situation.

The workflow should be to first FIND the minimum stable voltage for your Peak-configuration, full all core turbo.

The performance OC may not matter to you, but THIS PROCESS of finding it, will give you incite into the stability and inner workings of your setup. That comprehension is true system awareness, and the only way to know with any certainty if the system is working as intended.     It's not an iphone.

There are no less than 40+ settings to manually Research, Understand and configure.  You have to know exactly what they do and how they interact.


Remove all your extra stuff , you need 1 monitor, keyboard mouse, that's it.

Tp4 has personally spent 100s of hours actively overclocking 60+ computers over the years.  This does not count how long prime 95 runs.   It's Tp4 in sweatpants, squinting at voltage dip graphs, reading 1000s of posts on overclocking forums.

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 05:38:16 »
When i have random issues 1st thing i try is usually switching to a known good psu, i am lucky enough to have a few on hand, then if it still fail i will try a known good GPU, i have an old radeon pro for that purpose or if your cpu have an igpu it would also work, then either if i have a spare motherboard or cpu i try those, or i would underclock the cpu. i am saying that thinking that you already tried everything software and checked that your ram is properly seated, windows is rather bad at staying stable, so installing windows on an other drive and seeing if that fixes the instability could also help.
i come from a place were i have spare parts for most my pc because they are rather old and so parts were cheap or free at one point, so it helps. although to me your symptoms sounds like corrupted windows/driver install or dirty power. the other thing i saw with freezing after a long time is a mac mini G4 with a cracked chipset the cooler it is the longer it last before freezing, but that was one out of maybe one hundred or so pc that i fixed or at least tried to.
just speaking of heat, if your gpu is overheating it could also freeze the pc as it shuts itself off to save itself from burning, although that is more an AMD thing than nVidia, usually nVidia sets those securities way too high and so are never triggered.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 06:02:13 »
Yes I understand. I can be patient, and I am thankful you check the post all and often. I have been at this problem for months now and no reason to not try an OC solution. I can spend 20-30 minutes a day and tinker with settings ETC and just test performances overnight.

I notice there is a fluctuation in my CPU frequency. You say I need to enable turbo everywhere on my Asus z390 Steel Legend?

I'm not familiar with specifics of 10700k,  but, the all core turbo is not fixed in your screenshot. it's throttling.  Could be the avx divider, could be something else.

So whatever its doing, you're still testing a floating configuration,   and the problem with THIS on the modern platform is that the transient voltages cause crashes and black screens and all sorts of gremlins.

There's alot more homework required to doing the manual tuning / testing.  Think 10+ hours of reading notes, guides, voltage monitoring/ manipulation,     It's not a set it and run prime 95 situation.

The workflow should be to first FIND the minimum stable voltage for your Peak-configuration, full all core turbo.

The performance OC may not matter to you, but THIS PROCESS of finding it, will give you incite into the stability and inner workings of your setup. That comprehension is true system awareness, and the only way to know with any certainty if the system is working as intended.     It's not an iphone.

There are no less than 40+ settings to manually Research, Understand and configure.  You have to know exactly what they do and how they interact.


Remove all your extra stuff , you need 1 monitor, keyboard mouse, that's it.

Tp4 has personally spent 100s of hours actively overclocking 60+ computers over the years.  This does not count how long prime 95 runs.   It's Tp4 in sweatpants, squinting at voltage dip graphs, reading 1000s of posts on overclocking forums.

« Last Edit: Tue, 30 November 2021, 06:07:35 by Naweo »

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 06:04:33 »
When i have random issues 1st thing i try is usually switching to a known good psu, i am lucky enough to have a few on hand, then if it still fail i will try a known good GPU, i have an old radeon pro for that purpose or if your cpu have an igpu it would also work, then either if i have a spare motherboard or cpu i try those, or i would underclock the cpu. i am saying that thinking that you already tried everything software and checked that your ram is properly seated, windows is rather bad at staying stable, so installing windows on an other drive and seeing if that fixes the instability could also help.
i come from a place were i have spare parts for most my pc because they are rather old and so parts were cheap or free at one point, so it helps. although to me your symptoms sounds like corrupted windows/driver install or dirty power. the other thing i saw with freezing after a long time is a mac mini G4 with a cracked chipset the cooler it is the longer it last before freezing, but that was one out of maybe one hundred or so pc that i fixed or at least tried to.
just speaking of heat, if your gpu is overheating it could also freeze the pc as it shuts itself off to save itself from burning, although that is more an AMD thing than nVidia, usually nVidia sets those securities way too high and so are never triggered.

GPU definitely not overheating, the crashes happens often at 40 temp on GPU.

I will just slowly try everything until I eventually have to install windows on a new system and/or change parts. My PSU should be pretty good but I can try to exchange my PSU first.

Unfortuantely I am dependent on the monitor setup for work, so it either works or flops. The issue I have not, as long as it doesn't worsen, I can definitely live with.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 November 2021, 06:16:20 by Naweo »

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 07:49:53 »
what i was saying about windows is that you should be able to install a 2nd windows on the same system, at least it was possible with 7, if the fresh windows does not crash, it is your old windows, if it does crash then the problem is somewhere else.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 08:27:14 »
^ Yes I see. Honestly I am trying the overclock solution and diverting the power to different outlets and two UPS (Even if one UPS is a waste of money, my brother can use it for power outages.)

If that does not work, I will just live with the issue until it gets worse I think. Will get back to you when needed.

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 09:52:30 »
i was saying underclock, i had luck with that on my AMD FX8150 that had a very hot and hard life, when it became unstable to run it at stock clock running it under the stock speeds made it stable again, overvolting at stock clock could do the same but also could make things worse if the motherboard can't handle the power.
sorry if it is not clear, but your issues can actually point to pretty much any of the main component failing, it is why it is so hard to find the issue, just do not throw the UPS away unless you are very sure it is it :) those things often contain lead battery and so are rather bad for the environment.
and to be honest with you i do not think it will get worse, or if it does it would be very sudden if it is hardware
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 30 November 2021, 14:36:56 »
i was saying underclock, i had luck with that on my AMD FX8150 that had a very hot and hard life, when it became unstable to run it at stock clock running it under the stock speeds made it stable again, overvolting at stock clock could do the same but also could make things worse if the motherboard can't handle the power.
sorry if it is not clear, but your issues can actually point to pretty much any of the main component failing, it is why it is so hard to find the issue, just do not throw the UPS away unless you are very sure it is it :) those things often contain lead battery and so are rather bad for the environment.
and to be honest with you i do not think it will get worse, or if it does it would be very sudden if it is hardware

Thank you. I will try to make a life of it.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 01 December 2021, 02:56:33 »
I'm not familiar with specifics of 10700k,  but, the all core turbo is not fixed in your screenshot. it's throttling.  Could be the avx divider, could be something else.

So whatever its doing, you're still testing a floating configuration,   and the problem with THIS on the modern platform is that the transient voltages cause crashes and black screens and all sorts of gremlins.

There's alot more homework required to doing the manual tuning / testing.  Think 10+ hours of reading notes, guides, voltage monitoring/ manipulation,     It's not a set it and run prime 95 situation.

The workflow should be to first FIND the minimum stable voltage for your Peak-configuration, full all core turbo.

The performance OC may not matter to you, but THIS PROCESS of finding it, will give you incite into the stability and inner workings of your setup. That comprehension is true system awareness, and the only way to know with any certainty if the system is working as intended.     It's not an iphone.

There are no less than 40+ settings to manually Research, Understand and configure.  You have to know exactly what they do and how they interact.


Remove all your extra stuff , you need 1 monitor, keyboard mouse, that's it.

Tp4 has personally spent 100s of hours actively overclocking 60+ computers over the years.  This does not count how long prime 95 runs.   It's Tp4 in sweatpants, squinting at voltage dip graphs, reading 1000s of posts on overclocking forums.


I am still managing to get throttled results, it seems. Currently 1.29v at 4700 mhz. I looked every for an AVX setting and intel-C step, but only managed to find something else. I will show a picture of the menu.

https://i.gyazo.com/4c998b9a10e5614b015219799a915b61.png

« Last Edit: Wed, 01 December 2021, 03:07:55 by Naweo »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 01 December 2021, 03:58:40 »
did you set CpuSupportsAVX=0 in local.txt ?

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 01 December 2021, 04:34:45 »
did you set CpuSupportsAVX=0 in local.txt ?

I swore I did... I will run an 8h test overnight. gotta work now.

Talk to you soon!

Thanks


Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 01 December 2021, 08:01:42 »
Lots of settings to play with.

One step at a time. And we  will get there.

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 01 December 2021, 09:58:44 »
Lots of settings to play with.

One step at a time. And we  will get there.

Double check ur not thermal throttling,   if it's doing that, maybe run the test vented open chassis.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 02 December 2021, 04:23:24 »
Lots of settings to play with.

One step at a time. And we  will get there.

Double check ur not thermal throttling,   if it's doing that, maybe run the test vented open chassis.


I have trouble getting the PC to run at 100% CPU utilization:

https://i.gyazo.com/83046933d340b2fb3807456204085f45.png

Any reason for that? Throttling ?

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #73 on: Thu, 02 December 2021, 07:36:59 »
I have trouble getting the PC to run at 100% CPU utilization:

https://i.gyazo.com/83046933d340b2fb3807456204085f45.png

Any reason for that? Throttling ?

If that is the screenshot from prime running. Then there must be a power limiter somewhere preventing all core turbo.

As I said before , I'm not familiar with this chipset,   this may be by design (default) as you'd probably need a ~300 watt cooler to do run that chip full tilt. 

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #74 on: Thu, 02 December 2021, 07:46:16 »
I have trouble getting the PC to run at 100% CPU utilization:

https://i.gyazo.com/83046933d340b2fb3807456204085f45.png

Any reason for that? Throttling ?

If that is the screenshot from prime running. Then there must be a power limiter somewhere preventing all core turbo.

As I said before , I'm not familiar with this chipset,   this may be by design as you'd probably need a ~300 watt cooler to do run that chip full tilt. 



Say I won't find a solution to that, is it still fine to run the OC? I want to find/test for statbility, as mentioned.

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #75 on: Thu, 02 December 2021, 07:52:13 »

Say I won't find a solution to that, is it still fine to run the OC? I want to find/test for statbility, as mentioned.

The stability test will still be valid. "under" those conditions.


Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 02 December 2021, 09:31:02 »

Say I won't find a solution to that, is it still fine to run the OC? I want to find/test for statbility, as mentioned.

The stability test will still be valid. "under" those conditions.


Okay, I will try to find the right voltage and frequency with current settings then, despite the throttling

Thank you

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 02 December 2021, 11:40:26 »
Okay, I will try to find the right voltage and frequency with current settings then, despite the throttling

Thank you

in HWinfo , the sensor mode, has a performance limit reason drop down, it should tell you what's happening, what variable is triggering the throttle
.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #78 on: Fri, 03 December 2021, 06:37:31 »
Okay, I will try to find the right voltage and frequency with current settings then, despite the throttling

Thank you

in HWinfo , the sensor mode, has a performance limit reason drop down, it should tell you what's happening, what variable is triggering the throttle
.

You men HWmonitor or HWInfo.com?


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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 03 December 2021, 23:40:14 »
It seems to be the case

There's an option to disable it,  but You gotta make sure your cooler can handle all core turbo.   OR, you can set the turbo lower.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #82 on: Sat, 04 December 2021, 02:32:08 »
It seems to be the case

There's an option to disable it,  but You gotta make sure your cooler can handle all core turbo.   OR, you can set the turbo lower.


Will try to find it, thank you.

And you mentioned that it's good for peformance/stability to disable?

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #83 on: Sat, 04 December 2021, 08:34:46 »
And you mentioned that it's good for peformance/stability to disable?


It allows you to test different multipliers separately to ensure that the voltage given to the cpu is correct/stable.

That setting itself may not be a stability determinant since your Final outcome may radically differ.

You may want to read more indepth guides on overclocking.  I can't explain the process in <bite size>,  It's a thick totality.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #84 on: Sun, 12 December 2021, 04:28:35 »
No freeze for 10 days straight. I think that's a record so far, since I overclocked. Will keep posting.

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #85 on: Sun, 12 December 2021, 08:13:17 »
disable as many power saver settings as possible.   Like c-states.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 07 February 2022, 10:37:36 »
Update: monitors go black all the time now after reboot. 20 times a day


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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #87 on: Mon, 07 February 2022, 10:41:35 »
Update: monitors go black all the time now after reboot. 20 times a day



/headscratch....  If you revert the motherboard tunings, is it better ?

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #88 on: Mon, 07 February 2022, 16:03:49 »
I had travelled and started messing with cables again.

I had a 5th, HDMI cable (plugged into PC but on the other end into nothing.)

Unplugged it. So far no crash for 10 hours.

Lets see if lucky.

Prior to travel I had a 12 day streak no crash.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 08 February 2022, 17:34:11 »
disable as many power saver settings as possible.   Like c-states.

For the CPU throttling: I found:

CPU TJ max: auto

Long duration power limit: Auto

Short duration power limit: auto

CPU current limit: auto

Anything to set manually to prevent throttling? Cuz its still doing it

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 08 February 2022, 19:44:50 »
Look at the PL1 and PL2 power limit in HWinfo,  if it says something like 4 kilowatt, or something extremely high, then you don't need to change the duration power limits.

Those settings restrict/ cause throttling if auto means capping to rated sustained tdp. <this differs between boards> some auto means uncapped, some auto means capped

Maybe see if there's a setting called MCE,  multicore enhancement, with it enabled, the power limits <on auto> should be essentially off.

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #91 on: Wed, 09 February 2022, 02:51:52 »

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #92 on: Wed, 09 February 2022, 07:51:58 »
that's hardware monitor,   you need to use hwINFO.

282295-0

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #93 on: Wed, 09 February 2022, 08:21:16 »
Also: regarding black screen, it also happens randomly to any screen for 2-3 seconds, the bounces back, a few times a day during 10 hours sessions.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #94 on: Wed, 09 February 2022, 08:23:24 »
that's hardware monitor,   you need to use hwINFO.

(Attachment Link)

Sorry, Thank you.

I found this:

https://i.gyazo.com/e424a1e1449ea9482c2dfc6380d7c434.png

Seems to be stuck at 200w. Low?

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #95 on: Wed, 09 February 2022, 09:11:25 »
Well it's not _low_ in the sense that it's by design, but that means you may need to enable mce somewhere.

Or it might require changing those limits.

Do testing with 2 sticks of ram, 4 sticks is iffy sometimes.

Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #96 on: Wed, 16 March 2022, 05:07:06 »
so I think my GPU just died. I had a power outage and now it only loads one monitor that is powered by USB.

My GPU overclock asus software says "can't load vga driver."

I booted my PC once and it did five beeps prior to resulting in this error.

Is it possible the issue has been GPU all along?

Is there a way to check if my GPU is dead, if I don't have access to another PC right now?


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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #98 on: Wed, 16 March 2022, 09:08:38 »
so I think my GPU just died. I had a power outage and now it only loads one monitor that is powered by USB.

My GPU overclock asus software says "can't load vga driver."

I booted my PC once and it did five beeps prior to resulting in this error.

Is it possible the issue has been GPU all along?

Is there a way to check if my GPU is dead, if I don't have access to another PC right now?
monitor doing something funky can always be GPU, or anything feeding the GPU power or data, it is the problem with diagnosing those problems without spare parts.
you can search the meaning of the beep codes online but i find it strange that if the GPU is outright dead it managed to display anything. i would more expect the power outage to corrupt the windows install or drivers and that to cause them not to load, but then there are the beeps although most commonly 5 beeps mean CPU/motherboard failure (it is only CPU but i had more often dead motherboard with a good CPU report a bad CPU that actual bad CPU), then still without CPU it should not even bother to go further into POST and never should boot and try to load drivers, so unlikely that this code is right for your pc... maybe the bios somehow also got corrupted in the power failure? (very unlikely, very much more likely a completely unrelated error to CPU and you need to check online for your particular model, maybe a hdd secureboot failure if there was corruption to the OS for example, or short DST failure indicating a dying hdd/ssd (that could explain all sorts of completely random failures all over the place as windows could get more and more corrupted by bitrot)).
but yeah by coincidence your GPU could have been dying all along and so happen to outright fail on a power cut but then 30 series had capacitors and powerstages problems, and increasing the heat by overclocking would only make those problems worse (kinda why i never agreed with TP4 on overclocking being the solution but then not my system either)
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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #99 on: Wed, 16 March 2022, 10:50:52 »
I booted my PC once and it did five beeps prior to resulting in this error.

For Asus...
1 long and 4 short is a drive failure.
5 short beeps is a CPU failure.

While the drive failing plays into everything I said earlier about drivers the cpu failing plays into what you've been doing lately, which may have compounded your problem and now you're dealing with two problem not just one.
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Offline Naweo

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #100 on: Thu, 17 March 2022, 17:32:19 »
Yes, integrated graphics worked for a USB monitor. I reinstalled nvidia driver and problem was solved.

Still getting black screen randomly 1-2 times a day, haven't had success with fixing. It's and actual freeze, in addition to the black screen. I can't access things and sometimes sound freezes too.

Restarts tends to fix problem.

Sometimes I get the "usb disconect" sound and it feels like the GPU driver restarts.

A bit frustrating. May just have to live with the problem. I have spent 100 hours trying to solve this and there jsujt seems to be no way around it .

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #101 on: Thu, 17 March 2022, 19:06:05 »
Beep codes are hardware level and no joke.
Restarts and a software re-installs do not fix hardware problems, it's clearing the current error.

You have something hardware either out of spec or failing, my guess is drive or power supply, you need to tackle this now before it destroys more things.
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Offline yui

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #102 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 04:11:58 »
like said months ago and leslieann just said, random failures is often power supply related, either failing or out of spec, or if you still have not tried a new OS or at least a checkdisk could also be a dying hdd creating bitrot and corrupting your OS and so causing random crashes. although your crashes not seem random enough for that and to me mean unstable/undersized PSU, especially with a RTX 3000 they do have huge current spikes that cheap psu do not like and may brown out or produce transients that can crash random parts of your system, or even kill them if unlucky.
TLDR: change your PSU at last, i remember that idea being thrown around at the start but never followed through. (or down volt, downclock and reduce powerlimits on CPU and GPU drastically so they stop outpacing your psu, losing a lot of performance but maybe fixing your PC for free) and stop overclocking, TP4 can tell you all he wants overclocking will always reduce stability and increase stress on the PSU, motherboard and CPU and all components around if you have inadequate cooling (and if you overclock you GPU it increase stress on the PSU a lot and GPU)
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #103 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 07:26:40 »
like said months ago and leslieann just said, random failures is often power supply related, either failing or out of spec, or if you still have not tried a new OS or at least a checkdisk could also be a dying hdd creating bitrot and corrupting your OS and so causing random crashes. although your crashes not seem random enough for that and to me mean unstable/undersized PSU, especially with a RTX 3000 they do have huge current spikes that cheap psu do not like and may brown out or produce transients that can crash random parts of your system, or even kill them if unlucky.
TLDR: change your PSU at last, i remember that idea being thrown around at the start but never followed through. (or down volt, downclock and reduce powerlimits on CPU and GPU drastically so they stop outpacing your psu, losing a lot of performance but maybe fixing your PC for free) and stop overclocking, TP4 can tell you all he wants overclocking will always reduce stability and increase stress on the PSU, motherboard and CPU and all components around if you have inadequate cooling (and if you overclock you GPU it increase stress on the PSU a lot and GPU)

The power supply is a Gigabyte P850GM -  850W PSU 80 + Gold  Modular

That should be enough no? Or should I just try to switch it to a better one to see if it works? At this point I don't care. I am desperate.

I tried:

- Many things software related to fix it.
- Different GPU and CPU non-overclock and overclock. Crashes still happen.
- I have tried unplugging cables, and diversifying power outlets so it draws power from different plugs.
- I have having TWO UPS 850w backup power supply batteries to power the PC.

I HAVE NOT:

- Exchanged the GPU or tested it in another PC
- Reseated ram
- Tinkerd with overclock power limits
- Exchanged the PSU.
- I have tried to standard windows checkdisk and it seems both of my drives should be fine, also the system dump check etc. Anythin specific I need to do? I am willing to check again.

So far about crashes:

- Usually happens right after a reboot or wake from sleep.
- Usually happens right after exiting a videogame.
- Quite random, but still a bit consistent to above parameters.

I also made a terrfic and incredible scientific discovery.

IF I HIT/KICK THE PC IN THE BACK AT THE EQUIVALENT FORCE OF KNOCKING A DOOR, I get instant blackscreen/freeze.

Should I just try and exchange the PSU?

Maybe I should:

1. Do checkdisk
2. replace PSU with powerful one.
3. - If that fails, replace GPU.
4. - If that fails, commit suicide.
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 March 2022, 07:35:14 by Naweo »

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #104 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 08:37:05 »
Get rid of that PSU, those from Gigabyte have been known to eventually catch fire.  I would recommend looking into something like the 850G2/G3 from EVGA, an RM850(x) from Corsair, or a Seasonic Focus or Prime 850's.  If it's a hard shutoff then that's where I would look first.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D



Offline Naweo

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  • Posts: 199
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #105 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 09:34:26 »
Get rid of that PSU, those from Gigabyte have been known to eventually catch fire.  I would recommend looking into something like the 850G2/G3 from EVGA, an RM850(x) from Corsair, or a Seasonic Focus or Prime 850's.  If it's a hard shutoff then that's where I would look first.

What is the best PSU that has ever been made known to mankind, regardless of cost?

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #106 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 09:48:19 »
The power supply is a Gigabyte P850GM -  850W PSU 80 + Gold  Modular


Shut the system down and do NOT use it.
That PSU has massive issues and probably going to lead to a class action lawsuit against Newegg and Gigabyte.


And do NOT kick or even bump your system.
It's bad enough for fans, tempered glass and components which can cause wear or break solder joints, but hard disks do not even like loud noise let alone vibration or being kicked.

Now the real bad part of this...
It's possible the entire system is already damaged, not from kicking but due to the power supply. If this was a mission critical system (and it doesn't sound like it), I would literally be replacing at the bare minimum any spinners and motherboard, but more than likely everything in the box because as far as reliability goes, everything has been compromised. For a home system, meh, but I've replaced a whole file server that had similar happen and spent the next 6 months swapping out thumbsticks as they all suffered an early death as a result of that power supply going bad.

Side note:
You got unlucky, you chose a good PSU based on the info you had, you just got screwed by a manufacturer.  Here is a list of "good" power supplies, not that each manufacturer has good and bad PSUs. Manufacturers often use multiple suppliers to meet various price points/profit generally certain suppliers are bad. others good, but it's not always as simple as that, it can come down to individual models as well (or even batch). You don't need god tier or even platinum, bronze is fine if it's well made.
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1116640-psu-tier-list-rev-148/

Extra side note:
Running two power supplies safely can be done, that will not fix the issue, but can also cause your house to burn down if done incorrectly, many crypto farms and SLI systems have burned down from doing this improperly. Specifically you need to Isolate the GPU from the main PSU entirely, except for data, and that requires special PCI-E extenders. I know a lot of people do it, I've done it in the past and while it's less likely in a single or double GPU system as opposed to a miner with 12cards or something, it can and does happen because it's not properly wired.

Gamers Nexus Videos about the Gigabyte's GP-P750GM & GP-P850GM power supplies exploding.


And


and finally

« Last Edit: Fri, 18 March 2022, 09:49:56 by Leslieann »
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #107 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 09:56:41 »
Get rid of that PSU, those from Gigabyte have been known to eventually catch fire.  I would recommend looking into something like the 850G2/G3 from EVGA, an RM850(x) from Corsair, or a Seasonic Focus or Prime 850's.  If it's a hard shutoff then that's where I would look first.

What is the best PSU that has ever been made known to mankind, regardless of cost?
I posted a link above to good psus.
You don't need top tier, even B or C class is fine for your use. Even C class is going to be perfectly fine.

For simplicity sake...

For ATX
Seasonic, or made by Seasonic is pretty much always good for ATX (but not always SFX).

For SFX,
Corsair is pretty much always good, however this only applies to SFX. Their ATX is mish-mash.
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Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #108 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 10:59:55 »
Jesus... okay.

I did however find a slightly loose SSD cable for some reason it went lose. I hoped this has fixed the issues.

For the record, these are the rest of my specs:

Intel i7-10700K 8Core 16 Thread 5.1GHz
be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4
ASRock Z490 Steel Legend ATX
G.Skill TridentZ Neo Series 64GB DDR4 3000Mhz 4x16
Gigabyte NVMe SSD 512GB M.2 - Read 1700 MB/s / 1550 MB/s
WD 1TB blue HDD 3.5"
AORUS Nvidia RTX3070 MASTER _Led edition
Gigabyte P850GM -  850W PSU 80 + Gold  Modular
Nox Hummer Nexus Black Edition - NXHUMMERNXSBK

I will look at the PSU's.

Anything you think suffices for these specs?

Regarding power supplies, I only have the singular power supply - but it is connected to a backup supply station. My country has a lot of power outages, so I need a backup battery to save the system in taht case. The actual PC is only one PSU, the gigabyte one.

We bought them in march 2020. Was it known by then that it was a scam product?

There is a local power supply in store:

850W Corsair RM850

I am thinking on replacing everything with this
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 March 2022, 11:12:29 by Naweo »

Offline granola bar enthusiast

  • Posts: 316
  • Location: USA
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #109 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 11:37:34 »
kinda scary

Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #110 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 12:01:34 »
I can get:

Seasonic Focus GX-850 80+Gold Modular Power Supply

Or the Corsair 850 one. Similar models.

Which should go best with my system?

Offline yui

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #111 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 13:56:27 »
...

The power supply is a Gigabyte P850GM -  850W PSU 80 + Gold  Modular

That should be enough no? Or should I just try to switch it to a better one to see if it works? At this point I don't care. I am desperate.

I tried:

- Many things software related to fix it.
- Different GPU and CPU non-overclock and overclock. Crashes still happen.
- I have tried unplugging cables, and diversifying power outlets so it draws power from different plugs.
- I have having TWO UPS 850w backup power supply batteries to power the PC.

I HAVE NOT:

- Exchanged the GPU or tested it in another PC
- Reseated ram
- Tinkerd with overclock power limits
- Exchanged the PSU.
- I have tried to standard windows checkdisk and it seems both of my drives should be fine, also the system dump check etc. Anythin specific I need to do? I am willing to check again.

So far about crashes:

- Usually happens right after a reboot or wake from sleep.
- Usually happens right after exiting a videogame.
- Quite random, but still a bit consistent to above parameters.

I also made a terrfic and incredible scientific discovery.

IF I HIT/KICK THE PC IN THE BACK AT THE EQUIVALENT FORCE OF KNOCKING A DOOR, I get instant blackscreen/freeze.

Should I just try and exchange the PSU?

Maybe I should:

1. Do checkdisk
2. replace PSU with powerful one.
3. - If that fails, replace GPU.
4. - If that fails, commit suicide.
- 850W should be enough, but a power supply can be defective or fail from old age.
- Kicking a pc hard will cause it to crash likely, especially newer ones as impedance are critical and kicking it will likely slightly move cards and connectors changing impedance or even disconnecting them temporary, so there acting as expected.
- Reboots may cause a spike in power consumption in an already hot system so make sense it would crash, with wake from sleep it kinda hurts my theory.
- Quitting video game would also change the load drastically too, so could make it unstable too
- To be honest reseating ram could be a thing to do, unlikely to be the problem but a very easy thing to try, if your cooler is not in the way.
- When i talked about checkdisk i was talking about the standard checkdist, it should find if your disk was failing and if you had corrupted windows system files. if you want to be even more sure of the health of the disks you can read the SMART with a tool like crystaldiskinfo.
- One thing that would rule a huge unknown out is to reinstall windows or install a new one on an other disk, if you can.
- And yeah those PSU have a huge (i really mean huge) security design oversight, you can be lucky and have one of the rare that are not problematic, but a lot of them do explode on overload (STOP OVERCLOCKING ON IT), 850W is plenty, 650W should even be enough (limit but should be OK). when they explode they can either die, kill what is upstream (you UPS), what is downstream (your PC) or both.
- A lose sata cable can make everything go funky.
- Corsair does make descent products just do not buy used as at least in France buying used will void your warranty (bought a 2months old PSU that died and my RMA got refused because it was not my name on the invoice), if it is new my friends never had any problems even slightly out of warranty.
if you are in the US, Rosewill does also make good PSU, and cheap, but they seem only sold in the US, well the one i have survived multiple shorts on the 12V without problems and is still powering my pc.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #112 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 17:16:20 »
I can get:

Seasonic Focus GX-850 80+Gold Modular Power Supply
Seasonic is almost always great.
Corsair is good, not always great, but good is good enough.

Honestly, you don't need to go overboard just good enough to avoid junk that fries your system. 99.9% of the time, buying something like your current Gigabyte would have been absolutely fine without even thinking about it, you were not wrong buying it you were just swindled by a shady manufacturer.

And before anyone claims Gigabyte is good, they tend to be but almost every computer manufacturer, especially Chinese based ones pull this crap once in a while, not much you can do but refuse to buy from them till they clean up their act. I've been burned by almost all of them at one time or another, just usually not this bad and even more rarely seen them handle it so bad in the process.

By the way, you may be able to return it for a refund.




I did however find a slightly loose SSD cable for some reason it went lose. I hoped this has fixed the issues.
Probably from smacking the system.


For the record, these are the rest of my specs:
Looks good.


Regarding power supplies, I only have the singular power supply - but it is connected to a backup supply station. My country has a lot of power outages, so I need a backup battery to save the system in taht case. The actual PC is only one PSU, the gigabyte one.
UPS (backup) and PSU are different,

What happens with dual PSU is return current can flow back through the wrong power supply.
In most cases ground is ground, but not in the case with two supplies running the system. I don't know specifics, only the why and why not.


We bought them in march 2020. Was it known by then that it was a scam product?
Sounds like you were an early buyer and ahead of reports, which started later that year it seems.
Things like this come to light slowly then explode but unless you are active in the industry or pay attention at the hobbyist level it's not something you would have just come across at random. Few people go back weeks/months later to see if their system has a defective part.

A bit back I said watch out for Covid era products because they may have compromised parts due to shortages, this may have been one of the first ones to suffer from this. 
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 March 2022, 17:19:38 by Leslieann »
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Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #113 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 17:44:45 »
I can get:

Seasonic Focus GX-850 80+Gold Modular Power Supply
Seasonic is almost always great.
Corsair is good, not always great, but good is good enough.

Honestly, you don't need to go overboard just good enough to avoid junk that fries your system. 99.9% of the time, buying something like your current Gigabyte would have been absolutely fine without even thinking about it, you were not wrong buying it you were just swindled by a shady manufacturer.

And before anyone claims Gigabyte is good, they tend to be but almost every computer manufacturer, especially Chinese based ones pull this crap once in a while, not much you can do but refuse to buy from them till they clean up their act. I've been burned by almost all of them at one time or another, just usually not this bad and even more rarely seen them handle it so bad in the process.

By the way, you may be able to return it for a refund.




I did however find a slightly loose SSD cable for some reason it went lose. I hoped this has fixed the issues.
Probably from smacking the system.


For the record, these are the rest of my specs:
Looks good.


Regarding power supplies, I only have the singular power supply - but it is connected to a backup supply station. My country has a lot of power outages, so I need a backup battery to save the system in taht case. The actual PC is only one PSU, the gigabyte one.
UPS (backup) and PSU are different,

What happens with dual PSU is return current can flow back through the wrong power supply.
In most cases ground is ground, but not in the case with two supplies running the system. I don't know specifics, only the why and why not.


We bought them in march 2020. Was it known by then that it was a scam product?
Sounds like you were an early buyer and ahead of reports, which started later that year it seems.
Things like this come to light slowly then explode but unless you are active in the industry or pay attention at the hobbyist level it's not something you would have just come across at random. Few people go back weeks/months later to see if their system has a defective part.

A bit back I said watch out for Covid era products because they may have compromised parts due to shortages, this may have been one of the first ones to suffer from this.

Alright, thanks I will get a corsair or seasonic one. Keep in mind I did not kick my computer, hehe, I literally just notice it resets when my foot scracthed it, then I tested it twice by just gently knocking the back. The sata cable was loose beforehand I believe. If this has caused my problems all this time I will still commit suicide.

Will keep you updated.

Offline yui

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #114 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 17:52:48 »
And before anyone claims Gigabyte is good, they tend to be but almost every computer manufacturer, especially Chinese based ones pull this crap once in a while, not much you can do but refuse to buy from them till they clean up their act. I've been burned by almost all of them at one time or another, just usually not this bad and even more rarely seen them handle it so bad in the process.
Most Gigabyte products are good, but the way they handled this problem will make me very hesitant to ever buy any part from them again, i already avoided their motherboard thanks to an high end FX990 board with so much custom stuff that only 2 USB ports work in linux or in the windows installer, no other ports do on the entire board without drivers...
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #115 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 18:16:54 »

cable was loose beforehand I believe. If this has caused my problems


I am always befuddled by cable problems. They seem so innocuous, they just lie there still and never look like anything is changing or bothering them.


"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #116 on: Fri, 18 March 2022, 19:38:59 »
Alright, thanks I will get a corsair or seasonic one. Keep in mind I did not kick my computer, hehe, I literally just notice it resets when my foot scracthed it, then I tested it twice by just gently knocking the back. The sata cable was loose beforehand I believe. If this has caused my problems all this time I will still commit suicide.

Will keep you updated.
Get a new sata cable as well.



Most Gigabyte products are good, but the way they handled this problem will make me very hesitant to ever buy any part from them again, i already avoided their motherboard thanks to an high end FX990 board with so much custom stuff that only 2 USB ports work in linux or in the windows installer, no other ports do on the entire board without drivers...
Agreed, had a similar issue a while back with them using rather unique parts/drivers on motherboards that ironically worked better out of the box with Hackintosh than Windows.

As for this whole mess, they burned a LOT of good faith.
I can understand why it happened but how they not only let it continue to happen  they forced them onto people knowing there was an issue. And THEN they get annoyed when people call them on it.  Newegg also had to know there was an issue as well, they are not remotely blameless here.

Unfortunately at the moment, you don't always have a choice, I'm building a system for a customer right now and the only 3060 GPU I can reliably get is a Gigabyte.
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Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #117 on: Sat, 19 March 2022, 03:56:44 »
Alright, thanks I will get a corsair or seasonic one. Keep in mind I did not kick my computer, hehe, I literally just notice it resets when my foot scracthed it, then I tested it twice by just gently knocking the back. The sata cable was loose beforehand I believe. If this has caused my problems all this time I will still commit suicide.

Will keep you updated.
Get a new sata cable as well.



Most Gigabyte products are good, but the way they handled this problem will make me very hesitant to ever buy any part from them again, i already avoided their motherboard thanks to an high end FX990 board with so much custom stuff that only 2 USB ports work in linux or in the windows installer, no other ports do on the entire board without drivers...
Agreed, had a similar issue a while back with them using rather unique parts/drivers on motherboards that ironically worked better out of the box with Hackintosh than Windows.

As for this whole mess, they burned a LOT of good faith.
I can understand why it happened but how they not only let it continue to happen  they forced them onto people knowing there was an issue. And THEN they get annoyed when people call them on it.  Newegg also had to know there was an issue as well, they are not remotely blameless here.

Unfortunately at the moment, you don't always have a choice, I'm building a system for a customer right now and the only 3060 GPU I can reliably get is a Gigabyte.

Noted. I do have a sata cable lying around I believe. Could it have been damaged or?

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #118 on: Sat, 19 March 2022, 11:24:04 »
Noted. I do have a sata cable lying around I believe. Could it have been damaged or?
They're surprisingly tough sitting in a random drawer with other cables and surprisingly fragile while in a PC.

The pins are prone to damage from vibration, so if you have a spare, use it.
If you have more than one in your system, replace all of them inside the box, it's cheap insurance.
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Offline Naweo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #119 on: Wed, 23 March 2022, 04:26:34 »
Noted. I do have a sata cable lying around I believe. Could it have been damaged or?
They're surprisingly tough sitting in a random drawer with other cables and surprisingly fragile while in a PC.

The pins are prone to damage from vibration, so if you have a spare, use it.
If you have more than one in your system, replace all of them inside the box, it's cheap insurance.

After pushing sata cables in all together, I have not had a problem since. Might happen, but it has been a week with no issues now. This seems to have solved it.

I am doing backups etc etc just to make sure my drives havent been ****ed.

I have my seasonic PSU on the way so I can replace it.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Monitors suddenly goes black
« Reply #120 on: Wed, 23 March 2022, 10:12:59 »
After pushing sata cables in all together, I have not had a problem since. Might happen, but it has been a week with no issues now. This seems to have solved it.
If it did it once, it will do it again and even sooner than last time.

When this does happen it can cause more than just slowdowns it can corrupt your files, you can be finding bad files for YEARS, ask how I know. You can make and store backups all you want, they may not save you if it corrupts on the initial save.

Do NOT F around with bad hardware if you value your data.
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