Getting ready to build a mITX gaming rig

[StrykerX]

Current parts (been acquiring slowly just waiting for deals to be posted) so far

CASE - BitFenix Prodigy - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811345017
PSU - SILVERSTONE Strider Plus ST50F-P 500W ATX 12V v2.3 & EPS 12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256065
SSD - Samsung 840 Pro - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147193
GPU - Nvidia GTX 470 - from my last machine while I wait to see if the GTX 770's are any good/affordable
RAM - 16GB Corsair Vengeance - from my last machine - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233299

Now, the question at hand:

Preferrably, I'd like a mITX motherboard with Thunderbolt (better Hackintosh capabilities, I have a Thunderbolt Display). They don't exist yet, which is one reason I've held off on finishing the build and just buying parts as I see great deals. Should I wait for the next generation of Intel processors to come out? Will there even be affordable mITX motherboards at launch? Will they even have Thunderbolt?

[Jocelyn]

You'll have to wait a week or two to see if TB trickles down to ITX

Edit - I say this because I remember reading motherboard companies were having trouble getting Intel certification for TB headers.

[StrykerX]

You'll have to wait a week or two to see if TB trickles down to ITX

Edit - I say this because I remember reading motherboard companies were having trouble getting Intel certification for TB headers.

But there are Intel motherboards with Thunderbolt, just not mITX motherboards.

[Jocelyn]

But there are Intel motherboards with Thunderbolt, just not mITX motherboards.

Yes I know, but this was in regards to where it would be located on the back of mitx boards. Intel can be weird about this stuff. I'll find what I'm talking about later and edit this post with the "speculation" bit I'm referring to.

[StrykerX]

But there are Intel motherboards with Thunderbolt, just not mITX motherboards.

Yes I know, but this was in regards to where it would be located on the back of mitx boards. Intel can be weird about this stuff. I'll find what I'm talking about later and edit this post with the "speculation" bit I'm referring to.

Okay, gotcha.

This is one of the few I found: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-121-639&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=100&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Keywords=%28keywords%29&Page=1#scrollFullInfo

[tp4tissue]

Thunderbolt will be like Firewire..   VERY limited pickup.. This really shouldn't be in your decision.

Display port is better for displays.. and USB is better for ex-drives..


Think about it this way, say you have thunderbolt drives,  WHO ELSE has thunderbolt,, NO BODY.... why bother limiting your search over such a limiting feature...



Also, if you're dead set on Mini-itx... Consider getting those AIO water coolers...   Even if the air cooler you plan to use "FITS" it doesn't have enough clearance inside the bit-fenix to effectively cool, because the close space causes tremendous back pressure// resistance on the fans.

The water coolers give you more "clearance" for the fans to work properly..

That said.. watercooling or not, this thing will be MUCH louder than a full tower with more fans and more room.


the ONLY advantage of mini-itx is that it looks cute, and you can 'sort-of" carry it around...

It still sucks carrying it around despite the size, cuz the damn thing is still heavy, and it's summer, and I hate the outside, because outside no has air-conditioning..


I am a bit biased AGAINST the mitx given my previous experience with it, I went all the way, water cooled both the gfx and cpu.. Only to come up disappointed with the result..


Pros: 
Looks Cute
Slightly more portable

Cons:
Runs hot
Runs Loud
No space for Drives
Traditional Harddrives also run a bit warmer in small spaces
Dead zones galore


My previous mitx build was 2600k 4.8ghz/ asus z77 mitx/ nv 670/ zalman lq on the gfx/ h100 on the cpu

[badcop]

Thunderbolt will be like Firewire..   VERY limited pickup.. This really shouldn't be in your decision.

Display port is better for displays.. and USB is better for ex-drives..


Think about it this way, say you have thunderbolt drives,  WHO ELSE has thunderbolt,, NO BODY.... why bother limiting your search over such a limiting feature...



Also, if you're dead set on Mini-itx... Consider getting those AIO water coolers...   Even if the air cooler you plan to use "FITS" it doesn't have enough clearance inside the bit-fenix to effectively cool, because the close space causes tremendous back pressure// resistance on the fans.

The water coolers give you more "clearance" for the fans to work properly..

That said.. watercooling or not, this thing will be MUCH louder than a full tower with more fans and more room.


the ONLY advantage of mini-itx is that it looks cute, and you can 'sort-of" carry it around...

It still sucks carrying it around despite the size, cuz the damn thing is still heavy, and it's summer, and I hate the outside, because outside no has air-conditioning..


I am a bit biased AGAINST the mitx given my previous experience with it, I went all the way, water cooled both the gfx and cpu.. Only to come up disappointed with the result..


Pros: 
Looks Cute
Slightly more portable

Cons:
Runs hot
Runs Loud
No space for Drives
Traditional Harddrives also run a bit warmer in small spaces
Dead zones galore


My previous mitx build was 2600k 4.8ghz/ asus z77 mitx/ nv 670/ zalman lq on the gfx/ h100 on the cpu

i agree with TP on this.

im concerned with a 470 being in that tiny ass case.  they run pretty hot and with what little airflow you're going to have, that poor cpu might have an issue unless you go with an AIO liquid.  The draw back to a AIO liquid is, you're partially blocking the 1 exhaust fan you have in the case.  once the gpu ramps up, the temps are going to just keep climbing.

[Jocelyn]

Thunderbolt will be like Firewire..   VERY limited pickup.. This really shouldn't be in your decision.

Display port is better for displays.. and USB is better for ex-drives..


Think about it this way, say you have thunderbolt drives,  WHO ELSE has thunderbolt,, NO BODY.... why bother limiting your search over such a limiting feature...



Also, if you're dead set on Mini-itx... Consider getting those AIO water coolers...   Even if the air cooler you plan to use "FITS" it doesn't have enough clearance inside the bit-fenix to effectively cool, because the close space causes tremendous back pressure// resistance on the fans.

The water coolers give you more "clearance" for the fans to work properly..

That said.. watercooling or not, this thing will be MUCH louder than a full tower with more fans and more room.


the ONLY advantage of mini-itx is that it looks cute, and you can 'sort-of" carry it around...

It still sucks carrying it around despite the size, cuz the damn thing is still heavy, and it's summer, and I hate the outside, because outside no has air-conditioning..


I am a bit biased AGAINST the mitx given my previous experience with it, I went all the way, water cooled both the gfx and cpu.. Only to come up disappointed with the result..


Pros: 
Looks Cute
Slightly more portable

Cons:
Runs hot
Runs Loud
No space for Drives
Traditional Harddrives also run a bit warmer in small spaces
Dead zones galore


My previous mitx build was 2600k 4.8ghz/ asus z77 mitx/ nv 670/ zalman lq on the gfx/ h100 on the cpu

i agree with TP on this.

im concerned with a 470 being in that tiny ass case.  they run pretty hot and with what little airflow you're going to have, that poor cpu might have an issue unless you go with an AIO liquid.  The draw back to a AIO liquid is, you're partially blocking the 1 exhaust fan you have in the case.  once the gpu ramps up, the temps are going to just keep climbing.

Bitfenix prodigy is not a tiny case lol. Also I had a 470 in my sg05, which is tiny and I never had a problem with temps. When the gpu ramps up, positive pressure does It's thing, but again the case OP mentioned is not tiny.

[tp4tissue]

Thunderbolt will be like Firewire..   VERY limited pickup.. This really shouldn't be in your decision.

Display port is better for displays.. and USB is better for ex-drives..


Think about it this way, say you have thunderbolt drives,  WHO ELSE has thunderbolt,, NO BODY.... why bother limiting your search over such a limiting feature...



Also, if you're dead set on Mini-itx... Consider getting those AIO water coolers...   Even if the air cooler you plan to use "FITS" it doesn't have enough clearance inside the bit-fenix to effectively cool, because the close space causes tremendous back pressure// resistance on the fans.

The water coolers give you more "clearance" for the fans to work properly..

That said.. watercooling or not, this thing will be MUCH louder than a full tower with more fans and more room.


the ONLY advantage of mini-itx is that it looks cute, and you can 'sort-of" carry it around...

It still sucks carrying it around despite the size, cuz the damn thing is still heavy, and it's summer, and I hate the outside, because outside no has air-conditioning..


I am a bit biased AGAINST the mitx given my previous experience with it, I went all the way, water cooled both the gfx and cpu.. Only to come up disappointed with the result..


Pros: 
Looks Cute
Slightly more portable

Cons:
Runs hot
Runs Loud
No space for Drives
Traditional Harddrives also run a bit warmer in small spaces
Dead zones galore


My previous mitx build was 2600k 4.8ghz/ asus z77 mitx/ nv 670/ zalman lq on the gfx/ h100 on the cpu

i agree with TP on this.

im concerned with a 470 being in that tiny ass case.  they run pretty hot and with what little airflow you're going to have, that poor cpu might have an issue unless you go with an AIO liquid.  The draw back to a AIO liquid is, you're partially blocking the 1 exhaust fan you have in the case.  once the gpu ramps up, the temps are going to just keep climbing.

Bitfenix prodigy is not a tiny case lol. Also I had a 470 in my sg05, which is tiny and I never had a problem with temps. When the gpu ramps up, positive pressure does It's thing, but again the case OP mentioned is not tiny.

It'll Run yea... but about 5-10 C HIGHER than the same setup in a BIGGER roomier case...

And that just won't be good for overclocking..


And if you don't overclock, then F.... You..    why even build your own computer.  )

[Jocelyn]

It'll Run yea... but about 5-10 C HIGHER than the same setup in a BIGGER roomier case...

And that just won't be good for overclocking..


And if you don't overclock, then F.... You..    why even build your own computer.  )

Bitfenix prodigy is not little meaning your argument doesn't apply to this case. That is all


Edit - Also worth noting, when I ran the 470 in my SG05, both cpu/gpu were overclocked as well as undervolted below stock voltages

Edit 2 - Like everything, ITX is not for everyone, but for others it's fine

[guilleguillaume]

I run inside a Lian Li PC-Q11 a GTX670 + i5 2500K without any problem with temperatures. They're higher than usual but nothing to worry about.

Big cases are a waste of space.

[StrykerX]

I run inside a Lian Li PC-Q11 a GTX670 + i5 2500K without any problem with temperatures. They're higher than usual but nothing to worry about.

Big cases are a waste of space.

That's a pretty sexy case. I saw this one too: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009LHF4FO which looked nice. But I already have the BitFenix Prodigy. And it's certainly not tiny, maybe just a bit smaller than a mid tower.

As for the Thunderbolt port - you're right, maybe not worth waiting for. I just have a beautiful Thunderbolt Display that won't be able to be used if I don't have Thunderbolt.

[StrykerX]

Also, does anybody have a great AIO suggestion that will work with the BitFenix Prodigy case with no modding?

[tp4tissue]

I run inside a Lian Li PC-Q11 a GTX670 + i5 2500K without any problem with temperatures. They're higher than usual but nothing to worry about.

Big cases are a waste of space.

That's a pretty sexy case. I saw this one too: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009LHF4FO which looked nice. But I already have the BitFenix Prodigy. And it's certainly not tiny, maybe just a bit smaller than a mid tower.

As for the Thunderbolt port - you're right, maybe not worth waiting for. I just have a beautiful Thunderbolt Display that won't be able to be used if I don't have Thunderbolt.

That actually means you should "sell" the display.. and get something else without stupid thunderbolt..

I recommend zr30w  wfp3007hc  and if you want to get ghetto, zr27w...   if gaming, get the 27inch 144hz. cuz resolution is not important.

[StrykerX]

The Thunderbolt Display is beautiful, though, and I love the daisy chaining ability. All well, I guess I will just keep it for my work laptop.

[Binge]

I ended up making a prodigy build for LAN goodness.  It werks and is my daily driver.  GL with your build.  Give us pictures!

[tp4tissue]

I ended up making a prodigy build for LAN goodness.  It werks and is my daily driver.  GL with your build.  Give us pictures!

When I had my lan build, i only went to 1 lan with it, then I remembered why i stopped going to lans.. Bunch of dudes, some/many of which do not shower, or just sweaty++,   and they get all touchy with your keyboard even though They just pounded down a whole tub of shop-rite cheese balls.. And there's always this one guy who pwns in every single game... and then you get the rage quitter on your team, and he gives up half way, and leaves his station... Freakin'''

[samwisekoi]

Edit - Also worth noting, when I ran the 470 in my SG05, both cpu/gpu were overclocked as well as undervolted below stock voltages

I've built several ITX systems, but my portable rendering system is in a Sugo 5, and it is great.  Good air flow, room for an SSD and a big spinning storage drive, and small enough to carry easily.  Mine runs an OC i5, but could have handled an i7.  I don't think I'd go bigger than a 660, although there is room and intake right there.

The prodigy is a cute case, but is is big for an ITX case.  I think the Sugo is a better value, and if you can do something as big as the Prodigy, then you can also do an mATX mini-tower and have LOTS more choice for every component.

Other than the case, good build list.  Excellent choices on PSU and SSD.  Solid choice on RAM as well.

About all of the other input, I agree about dropping Thunderbolt.  It is going to push you into a low-volume, expensive mobo.  Aren't there adapters so you can still use that beautiful display?

Just my $.02,

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[StrykerX]

Edit - Also worth noting, when I ran the 470 in my SG05, both cpu/gpu were overclocked as well as undervolted below stock voltages

I've built several ITX systems, but my portable rendering system is in a Sugo 5, and it is great.  Good air flow, room for an SSD and a big spinning storage drive, and small enough to carry easily.  Mine runs an OC i5, but could have handled an i7.  I don't think I'd go bigger than a 660, although there is room and intake right there.

The prodigy is a cute case, but is is big for an ITX case.  I think the Sugo is a better value, and if you can do something as big as the Prodigy, then you can also do an mATX mini-tower and have LOTS more choice for every component.

Other than the case, good build list.  Excellent choices on PSU and SSD.  Solid choice on RAM as well.

About all of the other input, I agree about dropping Thunderbolt.  It is going to push you into a low-volume, expensive mobo.  Aren't there adapters so you can still use that beautiful display?

Just my $.02,

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Show Image

Okay, a few points in light of this thread:

1) I am thinking about selling the BitFenix Prodigy case in favor of a FT03-MINI: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163197

2) Unfortunately, that renders my PSU useless and I'll have to return it to Newegg in favor of this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256084

3) There aren't any adapters that can make a Thunderbolt Display work without a Thunderbolt port to date. And it doesn't look like there will be a good option for a mATX or mITX motherboard with Thunderbolt in the near future.

4) I guess I will just wait for the next-gen Intel line to come out which I hear is just a couple weeks away.

[tp4tissue]

Edit - Also worth noting, when I ran the 470 in my SG05, both cpu/gpu were overclocked as well as undervolted below stock voltages

I've built several ITX systems, but my portable rendering system is in a Sugo 5, and it is great.  Good air flow, room for an SSD and a big spinning storage drive, and small enough to carry easily.  Mine runs an OC i5, but could have handled an i7.  I don't think I'd go bigger than a 660, although there is room and intake right there.

The prodigy is a cute case, but is is big for an ITX case.  I think the Sugo is a better value, and if you can do something as big as the Prodigy, then you can also do an mATX mini-tower and have LOTS more choice for every component.

Other than the case, good build list.  Excellent choices on PSU and SSD.  Solid choice on RAM as well.

About all of the other input, I agree about dropping Thunderbolt.  It is going to push you into a low-volume, expensive mobo.  Aren't there adapters so you can still use that beautiful display?

Just my $.02,

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Show Image

Okay, a few points in light of this thread:

1) I am thinking about selling the BitFenix Prodigy case in favor of a FT03-MINI: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163197

2) Unfortunately, that renders my PSU useless and I'll have to return it to Newegg in favor of this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256084

3) There aren't any adapters that can make a Thunderbolt Display work without a Thunderbolt port to date. And it doesn't look like there will be a good option for a mATX or mITX motherboard with Thunderbolt in the near future.

4) I guess I will just wait for the next-gen Intel line to come out which I hear is just a couple weeks away.

thunderbolt is up to the mobo-oem.. because it's not a feature of high demand, and there's the licensing.

I would stick with the bitfenix, because it has more space for the cooler.

the ft03 can fit only a slim water cooler and honestly, overclocking will suffer greatly, you'll be locked to 4.2 or so on ivy. delid maybe 4.5

but 4.8 is out of the question on slim 120 coolers.

[StrykerX]

Yeah I guess I will just stick with the BitFenix. I don't mind the size, I bought it because it was a great compromise between a gaming tower and a mITX machine. So I guess all that is left is just to wait for Haswell...

[tp4tissue]

Yeah I guess I will just stick with the BitFenix. I don't mind the size, I bought it because it was a great compromise between a gaming tower and a mITX machine. So I guess all that is left is just to wait for Haswell...

Haswell is going to -need day 1 de-lid if you want to get everything from it... I recommend using a 240mm rad and a 140mm rad for the gfx card.


I'm really hoping Haswell can do 5GHZ at < 1.4v  I can swallow 1.37-1.39v,   I've slowly-killed a 2500k @ 1.45v , so i know the people saying 1.45 is too much isn't making **** up.. Good thing for intel insurance, I'm still running the chip @5ghz.. It just needs more voltage now.

[StrykerX]

Yeah I guess I will just stick with the BitFenix. I don't mind the size, I bought it because it was a great compromise between a gaming tower and a mITX machine. So I guess all that is left is just to wait for Haswell...

Haswell is going to -need day 1 de-lid if you want to get everything from it... I recommend using a 240mm rad and a 140mm rad for the gfx card.


I'm really hoping Haswell can do 5GHZ at < 1.4v  I can swallow 1.37-1.39v,   I've slowly-killed a 2500k @ 1.45v , so i know the people saying 1.45 is too much isn't making **** up.. Good thing for intel insurance, I'm still running the chip @5ghz.. It just needs more voltage now.

What is a "day 1 de-lid"?

[SmallFry]

He delidded his CPU on the first day that he got the CPU. Delidding it removes the metal (I forget the name currently) heat spreader. This allows the CPU to be run faster, though it can come with more consequences, just like any overclocking.

[StrykerX]

He delidded his CPU on the first day that he got the CPU. Delidding it removes the metal (I forget the name currently) heat spreader. This allows the CPU to be run faster, though it can come with more consequences, just like any overclocking.

Yeah...I am not taking apart of the CPU...I would assume that would void the warranty.

I am open to getting an AIO cooler, though.

[StrykerX]

Okay so Haswell is out, but the only three mITX socket 1150 motherboards are made by Asrock:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=50001944+600009028&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=-1&description=asrock+haswell&hisInDesc=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&AdvancedSearch=1&srchInDesc=

Should I wait for more mITX motherboards to come out?

[Jocelyn]

There are more coming, but I'm doubtful any will come with TB - Haswell Z87 SFF motherboard list
 

[IvanIvanovich]

I would wait for the evga z87 stinger. Looks damn nice.

[tp4tissue]

Asus Z87i-Deluxe

is going to be the one to get..


With the 4770k and 4670k, these are NOT premium cpus you're buying, an ROG board is a complete waste of money, because it won't take your OC higher.


And since Many people are too pu$$y to delid anyway, they'll be thermal-bound within 4.2 - 4.5 ghz  where a premium board will mean even LESS, because EVERY board even the low quality asrock ones will accomplish such trivial OC..


I say get the asus, because their bios is really easy to work with, and their forum is better supported than the other brands.


Also, with the exception of the 2 asus boards, all of the other boards have inferior pwm circuits.. THat's probably OK for haswell especially if one's only going to reach a puny 4.5ghz, but these boards generate more heat "Per" delivery loop, so wear and tear will be an issue.. since many people stick these crappy boards into tiny cases, it'll be even more of a problem down the road.

[Lastpilot]

By the way the GTX 770 was recently announced to be $400. :]

[StrykerX]

Asus Z87i-Deluxe

is going to be the one to get..


With the 4770k and 4670k, these are NOT premium cpus you're buying, an ROG board is a complete waste of money, because it won't take your OC higher.


And since Many people are too pu$$y to delid anyway, they'll be thermal-bound within 4.2 - 4.5 ghz  where a premium board will mean even LESS, because EVERY board even the low quality asrock ones will accomplish such trivial OC..


I say get the asus, because their bios is really easy to work with, and their forum is better supported than the other brands.


Also, with the exception of the 2 asus boards, all of the other boards have inferior pwm circuits.. THat's probably OK for haswell especially if one's only going to reach a puny 4.5ghz, but these boards generate more heat "Per" delivery loop, so wear and tear will be an issue.. since many people stick these crappy boards into tiny cases, it'll be even more of a problem down the road.

What is an ROG board?

Also, any idea when the Asus Z87i-Deluxe will be out?

[alaricljs]

Republic of Gamers, it's a marketing branding for top end hardware.

[Jocelyn]

I'm now officially done with ITX and desktop motherboards in general. Going to buy an ultra book w/ TB + this instead
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1765272

[StrykerX]

I don't get it, how does it communicate with the CPU on rendering the graphics if it's not directly plugged into the Motherboard? This blows my mind.

[Jocelyn]

I don't get it, how does it communicate with the CPU on rendering the graphics if it's not directly plugged into the Motherboard? This blows my mind.

People already do this, but it's limited to a 4x PCIE and you need an express card slot. It's called an external GPU. You take laptop or desktop with Thunderbolt, plug the TB cable from SilverStone case into laptop's TB, then hook up the GPU to your external monitor. This will use the CPU of your computer and the card you have in the enclosure, though I'm not sure how or if this works with laptops that have a dedicate GPU or Nvidia Optimus. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this thing and would expect it to be under $150 for both PSU and enclosure.

[Latin00032]

I don't get it, how does it communicate with the CPU on rendering the graphics if it's not directly plugged into the Motherboard? This blows my mind.

People already do this, but it's limited to a 4x PCIE and you need an express card slot. It's called an external GPU. You take laptop or desktop with Thunderbolt, plug the TB cable from SilverStone case into laptop's TB, then hook up the GPU to your external monitor. This will use the CPU of your computer and the card you have in the enclosure, though I'm not sure how or if this works with laptops that have a dedicate GPU or Nvidia Optimus. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this thing and would expect it to be under $150 for both PSU and enclosure.

That's not great if its limited to only 4x!

[Jocelyn]

That's not great if its limited to only 4x!

No, that's the old rigged way people were doing it. They were basically making home made versions of what SS will be offering soon, that coupled with expresscard slot in a laptop. This one will be PCIe 3.0 x16

[tp4tissue]

I think bandwidth wise it'll be fine.. But honestly.. WHY BOTHER.....

Laptop CPUs are completely underpowered for Modern Games, especially "the big ones"  SC2 and BF3..


It's just Better to get a low power small laptop, and a powerful desktop than   2 of something that doesn't quite do well as either.

[Leslieann]

It's just Better to get a low power small laptop, and a powerful desktop than   2 of something that doesn't quite do well as either.

Agreed, I argue with customers all the time about this.

Laptops are easier to steal, easier to break, slower, and when they fail or need upgrading, it's far more expensive. Sony wants $600 for the mainboard in my laptop (parts only!). For $600, I can build an entire desktop.

[Latin00032]

That's not great if its limited to only 4x!

No, that's the old rigged way people were doing it. They were basically making home made versions of what SS will be offering soon, that coupled with expresscard slot in a laptop. This one will be PCIe 3.0 x16

I may consider this in the future. Maybe.

[tp4tissue]

It's just Better to get a low power small laptop, and a powerful desktop than   2 of something that doesn't quite do well as either.

Agreed, I argue with customers all the time about this.

Laptops are easier to steal, easier to break, slower, and when they fail or need upgrading, it's far more expensive. Sony wants $600 for the mainboard in my laptop (parts only!). For $600, I can build an entire desktop.

oh man..

$600 that number just reminded me of Haswell..

sigh.... still debating... well, itching, looking for every conceivable excuse to upgrade.. they shot down my starcraft 2 argument..

I'm coming up with a new one though..

My old pc downstairs uses 200 watts idle, and is only used for internet and video playback..  it is also used at least 8 hours per day by my mother.

If I swap out that computer with a haswell, it will pay for itself in roughly 6 years w/ my ridiculous 18cent / kwa.

[IvanIvanovich]

Ugh. I hate the whole mobile shift whether it is notebooks or tablets or whatever. I mean, I understand people like sales reps and stuff that need something for the job, but why the **** anyone wants one for their only computer is beyond my understanding as they suck ass. Not only is their performance so far behind, stupid OS makers decide to force the mobile way of doing things on me so I double hate it. **** that. I like keyboards and mice not touchscreens mother****ers. I;ve been drinking, had like 4 .5 liters so sue me.

[alaricljs]

My work system is a laptop.  90% of the time the SSD is plugged into my server in the basement and is being run as a VM that I remote into from my PC in the office.  I hate laptops.

[Latin00032]

Ugh. I hate the whole mobile shift whether it is notebooks or tablets or whatever. I mean, I understand people like sales reps and stuff that need something for the job, but why the **** anyone wants one for their only computer is beyond my understanding as they suck ass. Not only is their performance so far behind, stupid OS makers decide to force the mobile way of doing things on me so I double hate it. **** that. I like keyboards and mice not touchscreens mother****ers. I;ve been drinking, had like 4 .5 liters so sue me.

Woohoo! Go Ivan!

The only thing that's stopping me from building my own new PC is being afraid of pitting on the CPU cooler. I'm afraid I won't install it right.

[Leslieann]

Not only is their performance so far behind, stupid OS makers decide to force the mobile way of doing things on me so I double hate it.

on Windows 8, install Classic Start, makes it into a decent OS again, it's not Windows 7, but it's close.

The only thing that's stopping me from building my own new PC is being afraid of pitting on the CPU cooler. I'm afraid I won't install it right.

Modern systems will shut down before overheating and the coolers are easier than then used to be. It's not like the uncapped AMD days where if you installed it wrong, you cracked the processor.

[tp4tissue]

Not only is their performance so far behind, stupid OS makers decide to force the mobile way of doing things on me so I double hate it.

on Windows 8, install Classic Start, makes it into a decent OS again, it's not Windows 7, but it's close.

The only thing that's stopping me from building my own new PC is being afraid of pitting on the CPU cooler. I'm afraid I won't install it right.

Modern systems will shut down before overheating and the coolers are easier than then used to be. It's not like the uncapped AMD days where if you installed it wrong, you cracked the processor.

what exactly is new about windows 8 worth using? I tried it for a week after release, nothing worthwhile except the new task manager.

[Leslieann]

what exactly is new about windows 8 worth using?

The underlying OS is actually quite good, file copy/transfers are smoother, faster and better presented.
It's just the eye candy and interface that really stinks.

[tp4tissue]

what exactly is new about windows 8 worth using?

The underlying OS is actually quite good, file copy/transfers are smoother, faster and better presented.
It's just the eye candy and interface that really stinks.

LOL, so ok new task manager, and new file copy transfer screen..  that's totally worth the 5 hours it took me to set it up and install all my programs, a few of which stopped working.

[StrykerX]

Woohoo! Go Ivan!

The only thing that's stopping me from building my own new PC is being afraid of pitting on the CPU cooler. I'm afraid I won't install it right.

6 years ago I tried to install my first after-market CPU cooler. It didn't specify in the instructions that I should put washers in-between the backplate (the metal thing that goes on the back side of the motherboard that the cooler screws into from the front) and the motherboard. The motherboard literally fried. Smoke everywhere. Luckily, when I returned it to Fry's, they didn't notice the huge charred part on the back (where the backplate went) and returned it for being DOA.

But I learned my lesson and haven't had a problem ever since.

As for the laptop vs desktop conversation, those people complaining about using a laptop for work have clearly never tried the Macbook Pro & Thunderbolt Display setup. It basically makes my laptop feel like a desktop. One plug (I love you, Thunderbolt) and my beautiful 27" display, keyboard and mouse automatically are powered up. The laptop is ludicrously fast enough to handle any task I throw at it and has almost as high of a resolution (Retina!) as my 27" Display. Thank god for SSD's. And I can take it on the go when I need, of course.

[Latin00032]

Not only is their performance so far behind, stupid OS makers decide to force the mobile way of doing things on me so I double hate it.

on Windows 8, install Classic Start, makes it into a decent OS again, it's not Windows 7, but it's close.

The only thing that's stopping me from building my own new PC is being afraid of pitting on the CPU cooler. I'm afraid I won't install it right.

Modern systems will shut down before overheating and the coolers are easier than then used to be. It's not like the uncapped AMD days where if you installed it wrong, you cracked the processor.

Last time I built a computer was about 10 years ago. I'm out of the loop with some of the new lingo.

I want to get back into PC gaming. Especially after seeing what Sony and Microsoft have coming down the pipe.