Author Topic: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?  (Read 84864 times)

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Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #400 on: Mon, 08 February 2021, 11:21:01 »
how to trash a linux install : sudo rm -rf
how to trash a windows install : just install windows, trashed from factory
I did both in one comand.  Install Windows at the beginning of a drive, then Linux on the same drive.  Boot Linux and run sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda.

Not my finest moment but at least everything was still on the old drive :-[
good old Disk Destroyer :)

Depending on the Linux distro sudo rm -rf / might not work (or hefty warning prompt).  +1 for dd

Though I am curious, does Windows 10 have a working recovery system?  I seem to remember needing to use that a lot for ME/2000.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #401 on: Mon, 08 February 2021, 20:51:00 »
Though I am curious, does Windows 10 have a working recovery system?  I seem to remember needing to use that a lot for ME/2000.
Yes and no.
It has a system to rebuild itself, it works great if you have a modest problem or want to wipe your data, anything more is questionable. Linux has Timeshift, while not meant to repair a total screw up it can roll back problems. Linux also keeps prior versions of the kernel alowwing you to usually get in and fix it with a little knowledge. Linux has faaaaaar greater recovery in that aspect, you can't just reinstall an entire subsystem on Windows, at least not easily. You also can't roll back to specific versions or programs or subsystem as easily, if at all.

Total system recovery is where Mac absolutely shines, the recovery runs from bios, you can connect it to the internet (even wifi)  and it will download and install onto a brand new unformatted drive without issue, it requires nothing to install from nothing. Wiped your drive and installed Linux or Windows, boot to recovery and it will wipe out everything and put Mac back on. It takes a while (has to download everything) but works amazingly well. For lesser repairs you can often get in and do a few more repairs than you can on windows as well since many config files, like in Linux) are plain text instead of a registry. It also has a roll back system (Time Machine I think) however trying to rollback individual systems or programs isn't as easy as Linux.

Honestly, there's no reason something the Mac recovery system couldn't be implemented  on Windows, especially now that Windows is one system, we've seen entire mini Linux distros installed to bios (Asus did this years ago) so clearly it's possible if they wanted to do it.
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Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #402 on: Mon, 08 February 2021, 21:07:02 »
Though I am curious, does Windows 10 have a working recovery system?  I seem to remember needing to use that a lot for ME/2000.
Yes and no.
It has a system to rebuild itself, it works great if you have a modest problem or want to wipe your data, anything more is questionable. Linux has Timeshift, while not meant to repair a total screw up it can roll back problems. Linux also keeps prior versions of the kernel alowwing you to usually get in and fix it with a little knowledge. Linux has faaaaaar greater recovery in that aspect, you can't just reinstall an entire subsystem on Windows, at least not easily. You also can't roll back to specific versions or programs or subsystem as easily, if at all.

Total system recovery is where Mac absolutely shines, the recovery runs from bios, you can connect it to the internet (even wifi)  and it will download and install onto a brand new unformatted drive without issue, it requires nothing to install from nothing. Wiped your drive and installed Linux or Windows, boot to recovery and it will wipe out everything and put Mac back on. It takes a while (has to download everything) but works amazingly well. For lesser repairs you can often get in and do a few more repairs than you can on windows as well since many config files, like in Linux) are plain text instead of a registry. It also has a roll back system (Time Machine I think) however trying to rollback individual systems or programs isn't as easy as Linux.

Honestly, there's no reason something the Mac recovery system couldn't be implemented  on Windows, especially now that Windows is one system, we've seen entire mini Linux distros installed to bios (Asus did this years ago) so clearly it's possible if they wanted to do it.

A few of my Linux systems were restored using tar and or borgbackup (for live snapshots).  I'm currently using Ubuntu's version of DeJa Dup--and have my eyes on Fedora's future with BTRFS (snapshots via Grub.. or something like that).  I was wondering why no one mentioned Windows 10 recovery, and I guess I have my answer.  It was mostly useful in the early 00's IIRC.

Offline Surefoot

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #403 on: Tue, 09 February 2021, 05:26:44 »
I was wondering why no one mentioned Windows 10 recovery, and I guess I have my answer.  It was mostly useful in the early 00's IIRC.
It's easier to just reformat and install from fresh.
I did use the win10 recovery trying to fix January patch that's going on a fail loop. Result is not convincing, it goes into further fail loops. Reformatting and reinstalling from fresh "works". Just get used to spend weekends on that pile of crap because MS are publishing self destroying updates.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #404 on: Tue, 09 February 2021, 22:03:32 »
It's easier to just reformat and install from fresh.
I did use the win10 recovery trying to fix January patch that's going on a fail loop. Result is not convincing, it goes into further fail loops. Reformatting and reinstalling from fresh "works"
Absolutely true...
BUT....
Most people have no idea how to do this and to be fair, it's not entirely their fault, MS and others have made it difficult because they won't follow their own standards.


Reloading is one of the best tools in the Windows arsenal.
I know, that sounds stupid to many of you but listen, the more you do it the easier and faster it becomes. Once you learn to do it fast do you spend an entire weekend troubleshooting Windows and maybe figuring it out or do you spend a few couple hours then says screw it, reload and be back up and running and lose less than a day? You should use that problem to learn but after a certain point you're getting diminishing returns. Did you spend 16 hours to fix something you will never see again or did that fix break something else? Spend time to try and fix it, gain some knowledge but you also need to learn to cut your losses and move on. Plus, this teaches you to keep good BACKUPS.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #405 on: Tue, 09 February 2021, 22:09:17 »
I wonder if MS is going to rewrite the whole thingiemaboo for their In-House chip.

Apple can really run away with their system here,  that M1 is truly MAGICAL.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #406 on: Tue, 09 February 2021, 22:43:23 »
They don't have to re-write anything.
Win10 already works on ARM, it has since day 1.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #407 on: Tue, 09 February 2021, 22:47:57 »
They don't have to re-write anything.
Win10 already works on ARM, it has since day 1.

Yes they do,  windows runs like hot garbage vs macos, the only reason it runs at all is because we have insane cpu power these days.

Offline Surefoot

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #408 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 01:14:22 »
Most people have no idea how to do this and to be fair, it's not entirely their fault, MS and others have made it difficult because they won't follow their own standards.
They also advocate reinstalling the whole system. Support tickets on the failed January patch all lead to this point. When even MS abandon the idea of fixing the issue itself, what can you do ?

Reloading is one of the best tools in the Windows arsenal.
Fine, reload the backup (i have one, being naive in thinking that would save me from this crap system autodestruction), then the same patch comes in as you are back to the point before it was applied. Then said patch fails again the same way exactly, and sends the machine in the same crash loop. Then what ? Been there, done that, my precious weekend hours are better not spent on this nonsense IMHO.

Online yui

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #409 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 01:31:35 »
They don't have to re-write anything.
Win10 already works on ARM, it has since day 1.
i feel that work is a strong word there, it started actually being somewhat useful recently, and i still do not get why anyone would bother with windows other than for retro-compatibility, that it does not have on ARM...
As i see it there is 0 point to windows on ARM devices even if MS manages to make it work like its x86 counterpart.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #410 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 07:14:56 »
Fine, reload the backup (i have one, being naive in thinking that would save me from this crap system autodestruction), then the same patch comes in as you are back to the point before it was applied. Then said patch fails again the same way exactly, and sends the machine in the same crash loop. Then what ? Been there, done that, my precious weekend hours are better not spent on this nonsense IMHO.
Don't reload the backup (that's not a reload) because of course that will happen, gotta love Windows (or not). You also put back all the other garbage that was there and building up. The whole point of a reload is to purge the garbage.

Fresh install then put only your data back.
Is it more of a hassle? I would argue no, I'm not cleaning up some virus that was found after I made the last image or some other issue I had fixed since. Backing up only your data makes backups only a fraction the size of an image since I only grab what I need. In my case I further reduce the size of my backups by using an old small desktop as a file server, the bulk of my data isn't even on my system. My backups average about 3gigs. Sure I have to download all my games but the second time you make an image I'm already ahead of the game time-wise and that gap only increases every time you work with an image. That doesn't even touch on the fact that if I can pull a backup in just 3 minutes, how much more likely am I to make a regular backup compared to having to wait 3 hours each time.


As i see it there is 0 point to windows on ARM devices even if MS manages to make it work like its x86 counterpart.
There is a point, if they don't have something, they have nothing, as in, if they don't do it and ARM becomes more dominant or Intel flops they're left with nothing. 7 years ago that statement may have been laughable by many people, but look where Intel is right now compared to ARM and AMD.   Intel's not going anywhere, but I doubt many foresaw Intel having the problems they're having.

I don't see Win10 ever working well on it under current polcies, you could say the kernel is an issue, being too tied to x86 but it's been made to work on other processors. I think the bigger issue is (at least for the moment) is just how much overhead is going towards telemetry. Not just by Microsoft but apps running on Windows as well, Chrome is just as hard on a system as the OS at this point, maybe even more and a LOT of that is due to Google's telemetry. All these companies think we have plenty of power, and we do, but not if everyone sucks up a ton of it at the same time.
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Online yui

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #411 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 09:04:35 »
i have had the most ridiculous argument again opensource i have ever heard coming from my superior (in IT mind you)
"we should not use opensource solutions as we do not know where the data go"
i found that rather funny, especially from someone who only want to use Edge as Firefox is unsecure and windows security essential as other antivirus could contain a virus. funny guy
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Offline Surefoot

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #412 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 10:41:48 »
"we should not use opensource solutions as we do not know where the data go"
Well he's got a point. With MS the data goes to them in Redmond WA, so you do know where you data goes in that case. For OSS you'll need to inspect the source code at least to know if it sends data anywhere, and you know that reading code is not really in a manager's qualifications :)

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #413 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 02:05:03 »
"we should not use opensource solutions as we do not know where the data go"
Well he's got a point. With MS the data goes to them in Redmond WA, so you do know where you data goes in that case. For OSS you'll need to inspect the source code at least to know if it sends data anywhere, and you know that reading code is not really in a manager's qualifications :)
true and not, most opensource projects have neither the budget to store those data nor the freedom to lie about collecting them, because you know someone will check and call you out on that, Debian seems to have the budget, but also ask you if you want to participate, and do not collect nearly as much data
and yes you know that the data MS collects goes to Redmond, but then do you know if it is sold, to whom, with personal id or not....
to me the point remains, you have no way to know what a closed source system will do with data, you have at least a chance to know what OSS does with it.
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Offline Surefoot

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #414 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 02:12:18 »
(...)
I was joking mate :) Im an open source dev and advocate myself. That was just a tongue-in-cheek comment on how your data being siphoned by MS (and certainly sold to 3rd parties, and given to the NSA) is a known quantity.

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #415 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 02:40:05 »
(...)
I was joking mate :) Im an open source dev and advocate myself. That was just a tongue-in-cheek comment on how your data being siphoned by MS (and certainly sold to 3rd parties, and given to the NSA) is a known quantity.
yeah i see that, i woke up not long ago so yeah i can be a bit to serious then :)
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #416 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 03:56:43 »
Like Google and Netflix, much of Microsoft's data is actually collected and stored at local ISPs and regional content providers before being sent on to MS. Some telemetry is about the only thing going directly to them.

Not only do these people get access to a lot of the stats and data, MS, Amazon, Google and others often give free and easy access to local and national governments. Don't forget that Win10 is a snitch, it reports everything you do (and even typed at one point), then you add One Drive on top of it storing all your important documents and basically MS has your entire system and everything you do on that computer at their fingertips. And no amount of anonymizing will protect you. They know you checked your credit score last week, you bank account yesterday and what you watched on pornhub this evening, they even know you didn't even make it to the end.

Basically, the only people not seeing the data is competitors and you.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #417 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 06:05:20 »
Like Google and Netflix, much of Microsoft's data is actually collected and stored at local ISPs and regional content providers before being sent on to MS. Some telemetry is about the only thing going directly to them.

Not only do these people get access to a lot of the stats and data, MS, Amazon, Google and others often give free and easy access to local and national governments. Don't forget that Win10 is a snitch, it reports everything you do (and even typed at one point), then you add One Drive on top of it storing all your important documents and basically MS has your entire system and everything you do on that computer at their fingertips. And no amount of anonymizing will protect you. They know you checked your credit score last week, you bank account yesterday and what you watched on pornhub this evening, they even know you didn't even make it to the end.

Basically, the only people not seeing the data is competitors and you.


Tp can do this, Tp can quit computer !!

Offline Alga

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #418 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 07:57:02 »

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It is an AMD build, so I was starting to worry that there was some compatibility issue between processor and ram. I decided to plug my fathers OS into my computer and boot it, it downloaded a couple of updates and worked beatifully.
Never cross platforms.
Youtubers will say they do it often, and they do, but they do prep work (dumping drivers) and even that can fail.


I tried to rebuild the boot sequence on the drive, but long story short, I had to format the drive and lost everything. Install all the crap and try not to think in all I lost.
It very well have just been a bios change needed to fix it, however what you should have done was put the drive back in your dad's system while and copy off your data. Be it booting off your drive or installing it as a secondary drive. No need to lose everything.

That's what I get from DIYing crap and being nice and trying to do nice things for the family.
This is not a Mac vs Windows issue.
Why were you "tweaking bios and crap", you shouldn't NEED to do this. Yes, you may need to to get the most from the system but it's not necessary to build a system.

I don't mean to be harsh here, but I suspect you were your own worst enemy here.


BTW, Windows bluetooth is horrible, not physically, it's a software.driver issue.
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If you have a mix of old and new drivers it causes all sorts of issues. One way you might fix this is with a driver update tool such as Snappy Driver or something similar (this method works on Win7 and 8, never tried it on 10). It will probably mess up your bluetooth worse than it is but it can be used as a tool to get where you need to be. I have it update the driver, then restart, go to device manager and purge anything bluetooth, reboot again and now it will pick from all the new and old drivers and start working properly. I suspect Windows has a bad driver or INI file somewhere that the drivers are clinging to and this method finally pushes it out. I've had to do this to a number of laptops I've worked on.

Resetting Windows while retaining your files may fix both systems.

True both of that.
Mi father's was the third computer I've built, and the other two worked like a charm with no issues whatsoever. Came the third the charm run away. I was mad for two days, and not because I had lost everything but because I was impatient.
Two lesons I learnd, when things get complicated pay someone to do the hard part.
And have a stupid backup (quite obvious this one, but I'm a lazy bastard).

I tried to access the files when the unit displayed as USB but when I tried to acces the main user folder it didn't allow me because it didn't had the rights to do so and ejected the unit. Thanks to the cloud I just lost some local repositories, the Adobe Suite pirate, and ZBOTW with quite a lot of hours xD.

I also managed to fix the bluetooth thing half way, now the card is permanently detected after having to manually provide the driver and crap, but for whatever reason the mouse randomly disconnects and I have to open the bluetooth settings for it to connect again. Less than 2 seconds can go by, so I gess that the thing is connected, but something just randomly breaks. No biggie though, because my Corsair Ironclaw comes with a 2.4GH usb addapter, or I can use the old wire.


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It is an AMD build, so I was starting to worry that there was some compatibility issue between processor and ram. I decided to plug my fathers OS into my computer and boot it, it downloaded a couple of updates and worked beatifully.
Never cross platforms.
Youtubers will say they do it often, and they do, but they do prep work (dumping drivers) and even that can fail.

Windows 8 and 10 seem a lot less fussy about this than previous releases. I was surprised to see that when I installed windows 10 to a hard drive using a comparatively modern Dell and swapped it into an "incompatible" Macbook Pro (one of the early Core 2s), that it booted up and functioned well without any bluescreens. I think I have swapped between AMD and Intel as well, but now that I think of it, I haven't had a relatively modern AMD system in a very long time.
It works, the problem is when it doesn't it can be anything from weird glitches to a a total bluescreen, and it's completely unpredictable if or when it will do it.

It's probably worth a shot for people but I'd make a backup first, personally, I prefer doing a clean install as often as possible. People were always curious why it seemed my own Windows systems ran so good and yet I was always reloading Windows, it ran well because I was always reloading Windows.

The best thing you can do for Windows performance and troubleshooting is learn how to do good backup and restores (NOT IMAGES).  It's the best anti-malware, registry cleaner and system cleaner you can get.

You seem to know your way arround this things, how do you go about the backup?
Right now I'm using the Gigabyte backup feature that "comes" with my Aorus motherboard, Smart Recovery. It's quite painless, so I like it. But I'm not sure if I change motherboards that I'll be able to use the backups. I haven't taken a good look at the files it creates.




Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #419 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 22:49:36 »
I tried to access the files when the unit displayed as USB but when I tried to acces the main user folder it didn't allow me because it didn't had the rights to do so and ejected the unit.

You seem to know your way arround this things, how do you go about the backup?

You can use the Windows properties to take ownership, however it's a bit flaky and a pain in the neck.  There is a registry hack that adds a "take Ownership" dialog to the right click menu that makes it so much easier. However nothing is foolproof with MS, I'm not sure why they make this stuff so hard. The most foolproof way is to boot into a Linux boot disk and copy the files out as it just ignores all the security of Windows. I recommend always keeping a bootable copy of Ubuntu or Mint handy.


As for knowing my way around I get paid to fix Windows.

Here's my personal backup system.
Linux - Kbackup
Mac - BackupList+
Windows - Allway Sync

With all 3 you can dump to an external drive or a shared folder, in my case I dump to a folder on my file server (a headless mini desktop with a large drive). Because these programs only do necessary data, they are a bit more difficult to get started (and restore since that is done manually in most cases) but your backups are much smaller and easily verified. My file server contains my personal documents and such, not the desktop, this way they are shared and I can turn off the desktop at night. Not only does this make file sharing easy between all my systems but actually saves money on my power bill as the server only uses about 15-20 watts of power.

I have 3 stages of backup.
Primary backup - Google drive, this gets the most important, can't be replaced stuff.
Secondary backup - Mega, it has no revisions but it's large and is a good off-site backup. This has harder but not impossible to replace stuff.
External drive - everything else. This has multimedia, desktop/laptop backups, installers, iso's, etc...

I actually have my Google Drive folder inside my Mega folder (which is on the file server) so Mega backs up Google stuff as well, then everything gets backed up to a local external drive. This means my important stuff has 4 copies (laptop, Google, Mega, local external), secondary has 3 (laptop, Mega, local external) and the less important, easily replaced stuff has 2 copies (server and local external). I pay nothing for cloud storage.  The computer backups take about 2-3 minutes (I could automate it but meh), the server I just plug in the external and it automatically  does it's thing in about 15 minutes, less if I do it frequently, while Google and Mega do theirs 24/7 in the background.



This probably sounds odd and convoluted so here's the why and how.
Google Drive has no Linux client (despite repeatedly claiming they would) and the 3rd party ones are not great except for one you pay for, however Mega's client works great on Linux, Mac or Windows, and since my Google folder is inside my Mega folder I only need to run one client (Mega) on the laptop regardless of what OS it's running (Linux or Mac) to sync both and allow access while on the road (I may switch this to just cloud access rather than having it download local copies soon, sort of like Google Drive on your phone). My file server (Windows) runs both Mega and Google Drive, and my desktop (Linux) runs neither, it just accesses the copies on the file server through the network (as does the laptop while home). This all means that I can reload the laptop, media player or desktop or anything else I'm playing with and not only does all my data remain accessible at all times it also allows them to be OS agnostic and keeps my systems light and easy to backup, usually 2-4gigs at most. Also despite being Windows, the file server is almost entirely immune to viruses because it's headless (no one uses it to browse) and there's no other Windows system on the network to spread an infection to it.
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
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MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
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J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
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Offline micmil

  • Posts: 66
Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #420 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 09:52:58 »
I have absolutely no idea how people end up with these ungodly horror stories outside of perhaps an overextended sense of their computing knowledge.
It's not their sense of computing knowledge, I've seen so much fail right out of the box, first update, without any user interaction at all.

As for Linux,
If you're determined to screw something up or follow a guide (especially a bad or outdated one) without knowing what you're doing, you can destroy any OS install.

I once destroyed a Debian install by following the official major update routine exactly. The updater decided the best way to update the OS was to copy literally everything on my hard drive into /etc recursively. By this I mean it did a fresh install but every single existing folder was moved into /etc and then if you went into the /etc from the previous install you were kicked back to the /etc from the previous install which kicked you back to the/etc from the previous install which...

Keep in mind, I'd been using various Linux distros exclusively for about four years. I knew what I was doing. The update tool hashed my system. I figured there was a way to untangle this mess with a few commands since everything was there, just smashed one folder level deeper than it should have been, so I hit the Debian official forum looking for help. Well about ten pages of flame war later (I didn't start it, I got flamed for asking for assistance then the flame war erupted between the ****heads with the RTFM responses, none of which had anything to do with my problem) I had determined two things. First, Linux users are arrogant *******s. Second, Linux users are arrogant *******s. So I decided to stop being an *******, wiped the drive, installed Windows, and haven't used Linux for anything but the lulz since. Every couple of years I'll install whatever the latest hotness is and marvel at how little has changed before quickly growing bored and reclaiming that drive space.

And that's the story of why I use Win10. I can't be bothered to waste time or energy on conf files or compiling or any of that ****. I use an OS to get **** done, not to use an OS.

Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #421 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 11:29:59 »
I have absolutely no idea how people end up with these ungodly horror stories outside of perhaps an overextended sense of their computing knowledge.
It's not their sense of computing knowledge, I've seen so much fail right out of the box, first update, without any user interaction at all.

As for Linux,
If you're determined to screw something up or follow a guide (especially a bad or outdated one) without knowing what you're doing, you can destroy any OS install.

I once destroyed a Debian install by following the official major update routine exactly. The updater decided the best way to update the OS was to copy literally everything on my hard drive into /etc recursively. By this I mean it did a fresh install but every single existing folder was moved into /etc and then if you went into the /etc from the previous install you were kicked back to the /etc from the previous install which kicked you back to the/etc from the previous install which...

Keep in mind, I'd been using various Linux distros exclusively for about four years. I knew what I was doing. The update tool hashed my system. I figured there was a way to untangle this mess with a few commands since everything was there, just smashed one folder level deeper than it should have been, so I hit the Debian official forum looking for help. Well about ten pages of flame war later (I didn't start it, I got flamed for asking for assistance then the flame war erupted between the ****heads with the RTFM responses, none of which had anything to do with my problem) I had determined two things. First, Linux users are arrogant *******s. Second, Linux users are arrogant *******s. So I decided to stop being an *******, wiped the drive, installed Windows, and haven't used Linux for anything but the lulz since. Every couple of years I'll install whatever the latest hotness is and marvel at how little has changed before quickly growing bored and reclaiming that drive space.

And that's the story of why I use Win10. I can't be bothered to waste time or energy on conf files or compiling or any of that ****. I use an OS to get **** done, not to use an OS.

I use Ubuntu for work because it gets out of my way and doesn't interrupt me.  And to pigeon hole all Linux users as arrogant *******s.. well if you feel that way I feel sorry for you.

Offline micmil

  • Posts: 66
Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #422 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 12:32:28 »
I use Ubuntu for work because it gets out of my way and doesn't interrupt me.  And to pigeon hole all Linux users as arrogant *******s.. well if you feel that way I feel sorry for you.

Do you feel personally attacked? :p

Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #423 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 14:33:53 »
I use Ubuntu for work because it gets out of my way and doesn't interrupt me.  And to pigeon hole all Linux users as arrogant *******s.. well if you feel that way I feel sorry for you.

Do you feel personally attacked? :p

No.  I have never officially joined the Linux community or Linux sub-community, so I do not feel like your reply attacks me personally.  But I do feel like you're jumping to conclusions by calling all Linux users arseholes due to your anecdotal experience in attempting to diagnose an issue via Debian forum(s).  I would like to more specific details as to why you feel this way.  Thank you for separating out my reply by the way, it makes it easier to respond to your reply.

I'll admit tho, there were times when I missed Windows 10/Fusion 360 when I was using Blender 3D.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #424 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 20:02:31 »

I have never officially joined the Linux community or Linux sub-community,


Over the past 20 years, I took halting steps to move into the Linux universe. A few stabs at Ubuntu at first, a few years apart, then a real go at OpenSUSE, and then Mint.

I can say for a fact that the online "Help" forums were generally not - welcoming

Very often when I submitted a question, responses ranged from marginally (and grudgingly) helpful to snarky and condescending. Often my question was disregarded and something altogether different was suggested which was not viable for hardware, software, or knowledge reasons. The Ubuntu forums were not too terrible but often failed to help me.

The OpenSUSE forum (which I attempted about a decade ago) was the most horrific forum that I have ever encountered online (but from my sheltered position I don't go to many forums anyway) and almost entirely useless. Besides seldom responding to the question that I had actually asked, the comments were often given in highly clipped, highly technical snippets of technobabble that they knew I would not be able to use. If I dared to ask again, I was usually flamed unmercifully and then dismissed with no answer at all.

After that I came back to Linux Mint which I found easily manageable and with the kindest and most helpful forum of any of the Linux groups that I tried, and I do not plan to bother venturing out again.

“Your article brought me to tears. I was raised in a blue–collar, religious, racist, nationalistic home. I am now a flaming liberal with a master’s degree and a high–paying corporate job. Your article deeply articulated the view of my family in a way they never could. I don’t believe they are hateful, racist, or stupid. They’re mostly afraid. Afraid of brown people. Afraid of the day they can’t live in their own home any more. Afraid of global economics. Afraid of those who claim that their God is not real. Afraid of sexually empowered women. Afraid of the scientific utterances that they can’t understand related to climate change, so they reject it outright. Fear manifests in many ways, but it is the same root. I’ve also concluded that we liberals own 99% of Trump’s election. It was easy to dismiss him as an illiterate con artist and enumerate Hillary Clinton’s huge list of qualifications. But she could not connect with my white working–class family, and Trump could. I don’t blame him – he’s just a con man who saw an opening that he could exploit – and they’re just supporting someone who gave them a voice.
We liberals are the ones who failed, and we need to own that.”
– letter to Joan Williams – USC professor of Law – 2020

Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #425 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 20:30:19 »
Fair enough.  I have heard via Linux podcasts that the Peppermint OS community is welcoming as well.

Offline micmil

  • Posts: 66
Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #426 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 21:18:05 »

I have never officially joined the Linux community or Linux sub-community,


Over the past 20 years, I took halting steps to move into the Linux universe. A few stabs at Ubuntu at first, a few years apart, then a real go at OpenSUSE, and then Mint.

I can say for a fact that the online "Help" forums were generally not - welcoming

Very often when I submitted a question, responses ranged from marginally (and grudgingly) helpful to snarky and condescending. Often my question was disregarded and something altogether different was suggested which was not viable for hardware, software, or knowledge reasons. The Ubuntu forums were not too terrible but often failed to help me.

The OpenSUSE forum (which I attempted about a decade ago) was the most horrific forum that I have ever encountered online (but from my sheltered position I don't go to many forums anyway) and almost entirely useless. Besides seldom responding to the question that I had actually asked, the comments were often given in highly clipped, highly technical snippets of technobabble that they knew I would not be able to use. If I dared to ask again, I was usually flamed unmercifully and then dismissed with no answer at all.

After that I came back to Linux Mint which I found easily manageable and with the kindest and most helpful forum of any of the Linux groups that I tried, and I do not plan to bother venturing out again.

This is an extremely common experience and echoes mine except Mint didn't exist back then and every distro was proselytized by leeter-than-thou crotch-nurglings.

No.  I have never officially joined the Linux community or Linux sub-community, so I do not feel like your reply attacks me personally.  But I do feel like you're jumping to conclusions by calling all Linux users arseholes due to your anecdotal experience in attempting to diagnose an issue via Debian forum(s).  I would like to more specific details as to why you feel this way.  Thank you for separating out my reply by the way, it makes it easier to respond to your reply.

I'll admit tho, there were times when I missed Windows 10/Fusion 360 when I was using Blender 3D.

Ya know, you're right. Change my post to say the Linux community are arrogant *******s. Linux users generally don't care about OS, they just need a piece of software that does a specific thing. The Linux community, on the other hand, are largely the kind of people that find Stallman tolerable.

Which says it all.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #427 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 21:54:41 »
I once destroyed a Debian install by following the official major update routine exactly.
It happens, it also happens on Windows, this isn't a Linux specific issue by any means.

First, Linux users are arrogant *******s.
marvel at how little has changed before quickly growing bored
I can't be bothered to waste time or energy on conf files or compiling or any of that ****. I use an OS to get **** done, not to use an OS.
Editing config files? Not much since Systemd became the norm and that's been years now.
Unless you're using something really odd or not using a D.E. there's almost no reason for editing configs these days, if you aren't using a D.E. then it's not a fair comparison to Windows to begin with. It's been a long time since I had to do it and I use something way more bleeding edge than Debian (which is pretty much EVERYTHING). As for boring, didn't you just say you wanted to use an OS to get things done, the only time an OS is really exciting is when it's not working. It can't be both exciting and let you work.

I'm not sure what you're doing but try something more up to date than Debian maybe, which again is pretty much any other distro. Might I recommend something like Kubuntu or Elementary, or if you still prefer Debian, try KDE Neon.

Linux help is a minefield, but I would say Windows (and even Mac) help forums are often just as worthless due to bad info or lack of knowledge, in all cases you need to find the right places and steer your search. I use the Ubuntu or Mint forums, Arch wiki or tack "ubuntu" onto any troubleshooting search into Google. TONS of help. I haven't seen much snark or more than few random RTFM comments in a long time using this method.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #428 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 21:58:56 »
Over the past 20 years, I took halting steps to move into the Linux universe. A few stabs at Ubuntu at first, a few years apart, then a real go at OpenSUSE, and then Mint.

After that I came back to Linux Mint which I found easily manageable and with the kindest and most helpful forum of any of the Linux groups that I tried, and I do not plan to bother venturing out again.

For all the hate of Ubuntu, it and Mint really changed the game.
Linux is not even close to what it was even 10 years ago and a lot of the credit belongs to them.

Only reason I moved of Mint was the updater, going from 17 to 18 was a joke, as was 18 to 19. Otherwise, fantastic system.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
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MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
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J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
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Costar model with browns
| GH60
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Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #429 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 22:22:08 »
This tends to be a common theme in Linux podcasts/RSS articles.  Something about a bad experience from 5-10 years ago.  Did someone throw a laptop into a wall in the process and that's why the experience was bad?  Or perhaps the experience blew a CRT monitor, or some other expensive piece of equipment.  Perhaps a HDD was overwritten and all of the family memories were lost.  Maybe someone's Mother was made fun of during the bad experience.  I am a user of Linux for the past seven years, so I missed a lot of the campfire horror stories of being a Linux user in the mid 90s to early 00s.  But these stories tend to take the tone of "a dog once bit me, and now I'm afraid of stray dogs."  That's the kind of reaction I'm seeing, and this is about a computer operating system.  Which confuses me.

Online yui

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #430 on: Mon, 15 February 2021, 01:41:45 »
I once destroyed a Debian install by following the official major update routine exactly. The updater decided the best way to update the OS was to copy literally everything on my hard drive into /etc recursively. By this I mean it did a fresh install but every single existing folder was moved into /etc and then if you went into the /etc from the previous install you were kicked back to the /etc from the previous install which kicked you back to the/etc from the previous install which...

Keep in mind, I'd been using various Linux distros exclusively for about four years. I knew what I was doing. The update tool hashed my system. I figured there was a way to untangle this mess with a few commands since everything was there, just smashed one folder level deeper than it should have been, so I hit the Debian official forum looking for help. Well about ten pages of flame war later (I didn't start it, I got flamed for asking for assistance then the flame war erupted between the ****heads with the RTFM responses, none of which had anything to do with my problem) I had determined two things. First, Linux users are arrogant *******s. Second, Linux users are arrogant *******s. So I decided to stop being an *******, wiped the drive, installed Windows, and haven't used Linux for anything but the lulz since. Every couple of years I'll install whatever the latest hotness is and marvel at how little has changed before quickly growing bored and reclaiming that drive space.

And that's the story of why I use Win10. I can't be bothered to waste time or energy on conf files or compiling or any of that ****. I use an OS to get **** done, not to use an OS.
I will start by saying that i am a linux user, i only use windows at work and then i have a linux VM on it because sometimes i do need linux to do things than i would need to pay to do on windows.
i started using linux as my main OS with OpenSuSe 11.3 so about 10 years ago, and already then the gate keeping was rather weak, since then we have been trying to fight against this image of a gate kept community, and maybe the forums with all the old gate keeping geysers is not the right place to go, place like stackexchange is a much more helpful community, and even the forums have less of those asshats that came to linux to be in the 0.3% that used linux, although there is also a way to irritate them less, if you were "update broke pc, linux suks" then yeah you will get flame, if you ask something like "i had a problem with updating package libc.so.42.dev.deb now my system does not want to compile anything, did anyone else have that and can you help please" now you may get a few trolls but most peoples should be helpful, if you were as cocky then as you seem now then yeah flame is going to happen as you do not seem willing to accept that you may have made a mistake somewhere "Keep in mind, I'd been using various Linux distros exclusively for about four years." translate to "**** you, your OS suck now fix it for me" to a lot of peoples, you are saying that all linux user are asshats because you found an asshat 10 years ago, reading you i could say the same of windows users.
but then switching to linux is re learning a lot of things from scratch as is switching to and from macOS or back to window, so if you are not willing to learn do not, it will only ever frustrate you, it is much easier for a clueless web user to switch than for a poweruser.
as for the conf files, if you are not doing rather exotic systems you should not need to touch them, KDE/Gnome etc do have pretty extensive configuration GUI, although most of the tutorials will give you commands to execute because it is faster to tell someone to open the terminal and type a line of code than to navigate 3 or 4 menus, that might have changed if they played with the system, true it is mostly not an option on windows, so you are stuck navigating, but then menus can't change on windows either.
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Offline Alga

  • Posts: 65
Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #431 on: Mon, 15 February 2021, 07:34:14 »
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I tried to access the files when the unit displayed as USB but when I tried to acces the main user folder it didn't allow me because it didn't had the rights to do so and ejected the unit.

You seem to know your way arround this things, how do you go about the backup?

You can use the Windows properties to take ownership, however it's a bit flaky and a pain in the neck.  There is a registry hack that adds a "take Ownership" dialog to the right click menu that makes it so much easier. However nothing is foolproof with MS, I'm not sure why they make this stuff so hard. The most foolproof way is to boot into a Linux boot disk and copy the files out as it just ignores all the security of Windows. I recommend always keeping a bootable copy of Ubuntu or Mint handy.


As for knowing my way around I get paid to fix Windows.

Here's my personal backup system.
Linux - Kbackup
Mac - BackupList+
Windows - Allway Sync

With all 3 you can dump to an external drive or a shared folder, in my case I dump to a folder on my file server (a headless mini desktop with a large drive). Because these programs only do necessary data, they are a bit more difficult to get started (and restore since that is done manually in most cases) but your backups are much smaller and easily verified. My file server contains my personal documents and such, not the desktop, this way they are shared and I can turn off the desktop at night. Not only does this make file sharing easy between all my systems but actually saves money on my power bill as the server only uses about 15-20 watts of power.

I have 3 stages of backup.
Primary backup - Google drive, this gets the most important, can't be replaced stuff.
Secondary backup - Mega, it has no revisions but it's large and is a good off-site backup. This has harder but not impossible to replace stuff.
External drive - everything else. This has multimedia, desktop/laptop backups, installers, iso's, etc...

I actually have my Google Drive folder inside my Mega folder (which is on the file server) so Mega backs up Google stuff as well, then everything gets backed up to a local external drive. This means my important stuff has 4 copies (laptop, Google, Mega, local external), secondary has 3 (laptop, Mega, local external) and the less important, easily replaced stuff has 2 copies (server and local external). I pay nothing for cloud storage.  The computer backups take about 2-3 minutes (I could automate it but meh), the server I just plug in the external and it automatically  does it's thing in about 15 minutes, less if I do it frequently, while Google and Mega do theirs 24/7 in the background.



This probably sounds odd and convoluted so here's the why and how.
Google Drive has no Linux client (despite repeatedly claiming they would) and the 3rd party ones are not great except for one you pay for, however Mega's client works great on Linux, Mac or Windows, and since my Google folder is inside my Mega folder I only need to run one client (Mega) on the laptop regardless of what OS it's running (Linux or Mac) to sync both and allow access while on the road (I may switch this to just cloud access rather than having it download local copies soon, sort of like Google Drive on your phone). My file server (Windows) runs both Mega and Google Drive, and my desktop (Linux) runs neither, it just accesses the copies on the file server through the network (as does the laptop while home). This all means that I can reload the laptop, media player or desktop or anything else I'm playing with and not only does all my data remain accessible at all times it also allows them to be OS agnostic and keeps my systems light and easy to backup, usually 2-4gigs at most. Also despite being Windows, the file server is almost entirely immune to viruses because it's headless (no one uses it to browse) and there's no other Windows system on the network to spread an infection to it.

Oh dam!

I'll try to use some of that to avoid the same problem.  Thanks  :thumb:




Offline micmil

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #432 on: Tue, 16 February 2021, 12:39:34 »
Oh boy, the Linux apologists are here.

I'm out, have fun.

Online yui

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #433 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 03:58:18 »
Oh boy, the Linux apologists are here.

I'm out, have fun.
you manage to see that you are insulting a whole community because of a bad experience years ago? and that you get pissy when called out. you are exactly what you say you despise... sad but then what can we expect online?
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #434 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 09:08:42 »
Oh boy, the Linux apologists are here.

I'm out, have fun.

The thread was created by a Linux user.
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Offline micmil

  • Posts: 66
Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #435 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 10:28:32 »
Oh boy, the Linux apologists are here.

I'm out, have fun.

The thread was created by a Linux user.

Pedantry is not an Olympic sport.

Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #436 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 12:23:03 »
That person (or GH account) likes to stir things up a bit. They're probably an Arch Linux or Gentoo user with a chip on their shoulder.

Offline stoicbias

  • Posts: 10
Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #437 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 15:13:26 »
I continue to use windows because I use a ton of software that's only available on it.  I have Ubuntuu on spare computers but don't use it much.

Offline xac0

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #438 on: Sat, 13 March 2021, 17:27:17 »
Inspired by the open Source Sucks thread...
This is something I've been meaning to ask for a while.

Do you guys like win10 or do you just use it because you were forced to?

I don't think I've ever gotten to work on a Win10 system that was working at normal speed unless I've hacked it to hell to disable updates and such. That's not an exaggeration, however you have to bear in mind, I mostly get to use it when new and still getting updates or it's broken since I only use it on other people's computers (I'm an independent tech). This leads me to wonder though, does it ever run good, or are people just tolerating it?

Edit:
I'm not trying to use this as prelude to a bash, I genuinely want to know why people like and use it. I just want to understand because I really don't get it. Have I missed something?

I'm forced to use windows on my job (videogames too), but I really hate it, it's intrussive, slow, resource draining... A complete mess.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #439 on: Sat, 13 March 2021, 23:59:05 »
I finally figured out how to get optical sound working on my PC after like a year of occasionally attempting to trouble shoot it then giving up. Tried everything from forcing input  detection to getting a new sound card. Never ever had an issue w/ 7, but for 10  apparently it only works if I plug my speakers directly into the monitor. Why? I  have no answer for that. The optical in/out isn't even wired to my monitor, idk why or how it works  but it's the only way it  does. Very cool.


Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #441 on: Sun, 14 March 2021, 16:24:11 »
Your monitor has optical toslink ?

nope. that's why it makes no sense.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #442 on: Sun, 14 March 2021, 21:18:10 »
It's not as obvious in Windows, but your GPU has a sound card in it and the output goes through the DisplayPort or HDMI port.

You've bypassed onboard sound and your optical system, you're using the GPU based sound card.
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #443 on: Sun, 14 March 2021, 21:38:01 »
It's not as obvious in Windows, but your GPU has a sound card in it and the output goes through the DisplayPort or HDMI port.

You've bypassed onboard sound and your optical system, you're using the GPU based sound card.

It must be transferring that signal from optical and making it HDMI somehow because the input device is only linked through an optical cable directly to my mobo's input. It's a very weird setup, and I don't understand why none of the Win sound options have any effect whatsoever. It doesn't even detect the input at all, but somehow translates it only when the speaker jack is in the monitor.
Also It's using DVI
« Last Edit: Sun, 14 March 2021, 21:40:14 by noisyturtle »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #444 on: Sun, 14 March 2021, 22:11:32 »
It must be transferring that signal from optical and making it HDMI somehow because the input device is only linked through an optical cable directly to my mobo's input. It's a very weird setup, and I don't understand why none of the Win sound options have any effect whatsoever. It doesn't even detect the input at all, but somehow translates it only when the speaker jack is in the monitor.
Also It's using DVI
Ahhh Windows, you never cease to amaze me at what stupid things you can do.

DVI can also be hijacked to carry audio, it's not so much a standard but is common in cards once they put HDMI and DP.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #445 on: Sun, 14 March 2021, 22:37:52 »
is this motherboard toslink ? or a sound card ?

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #446 on: Mon, 15 March 2021, 00:46:19 »
is this motherboard toslink ? or a sound card ?

just an ASUS mobo

Offline riceBox

  • Posts: 3
Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #447 on: Mon, 15 March 2021, 10:46:52 »
I use Win10, not so much as I like it similar to a fan, but it does what I need. MS Office is a must for me due to work. Games are nice too, but I'm not really a hardcore gamer nowadays. All the tools I need, like Cisco CLI Analyzer, run in Windows. I haven't experienced the horror stories the others experienced so far. My one subjective complaint though is that I really don't like the aesthetics of Windows's philosophy in font rendering vs Mac and Linux's. It just looks ugly to me.

For Linux desktop though, my main inconveniences so far aren't to the environment as a whole, but to specific areas. X11 with the poor (or lacking) mixed display refresh rate and other oddities. Nvidia's substandard support for Linux desktop and Wayland. Lack of video decode hardware acceleration in browsers. I kinda wish MS would also port Office to Linux, but it's more of a personal pipedream at most. Other than that, most of the tools I need are also available in Linux. Nowadays, I use Linux desktop 75% and Windows desktop 25%.

 
At the end of the day for me, it's more of the right tool for the right job.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #448 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 14:37:07 »
Time it takes Win 7 to just open a picture in the picture viewer:
>6 seconds

Time it takes Win 10 to open any picture in Win Photo Viewer:
27 seconds, just to open a picture. **** right off

Online yui

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #449 on: Tue, 27 April 2021, 00:43:57 »
Time it takes Win 7 to just open a picture in the picture viewer:
>6 seconds

Time it takes Win 10 to open any picture in Win Photo Viewer:
27 seconds, just to open a picture. **** right off
well the time for windows to send your photo to MS :) (ok only a joke)
although i do not really understand that either, in a lot of places windows 10 has lost feature compared to 7 and yet is also slower and heavier, i have both windows7 and 10 picture viewers installed on this pc, depending on the format windows 10 will use either, and the old one always seemed faster, but then different formats (this PC was "Upgraded" from 7 to 10, i can tell you that processes is buggy AF)
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