We need 8K

[tp4tissue]

Watching the new TV.  Because of 2.39:1 aspect ratio movies, 77 inch tv is only really 57 inches, we can sit about 6-8 feet from it. At that distance 8K fidelity is of use, you can see a bit of softness to the image at only 4k, especially if they only used a 2K DI during mastering.

The problem isn't making 8K TVs of course, the problem is bandwidth. We need 200gb per movie. That's hard to come-by.

[Findecanor]

Your eyes don't see in 4K, and will lose fidelity and ability to see in low light as you grow older.

[tp4tissue]

Your eyes don't see in 4K, and will lose fidelity and ability to see in low light as you grow older.

It depends on how close we get to the screen. My point is with most movie content we're getting close enough such that the image looks soft on a 4K big screen. 8K helps with that.

For 16:9 content, there's no reason to use 8K, because you have to get at least 10 feet back to have enough vertical arc to take in the height.

[Leslieann]

Most movies and Tv are not filmed in 8k making an 8k tv pointless.

And there's a reason they aren't.
Besides demand, the cameras and bandwidth being expensive, we actually need a technological leap to make it happen for storage reasons, a TV series such as Friends is 234 episodes @ 44 minutes would be about 1 Petabyte (based on your number). Worse still, the raw footage would actually closer to 20 Petabytes. Imagine the computer needed to edit that footage... Now imagine a company like Disney or Netflix trying to store their entire archive, raw footage or not, we simply lack the technology to realistically store that.


Now imagine your personal media server...
You can build a Petabyte server pretty easily today (compared to the past) for half what it cost just a few years ago ($25k vs $40k) but it would take you more than 2 MONTHS non stop to actually copy over Friends at current drive speeds, and that's copying drive to drive, nevermind download speeds (and Windows f*cking up the transfer). How would you back that up? Backblaze? Not that they'd allow it but with an average speed of around 10 Mbit and without interruption (their server connection speed, not yours), your copy of Friends would take 30 YEARS(!) to back up. Don't forget that's ALL you could fit on that server and that server's power needs alone would be around $20-$90 per month just in power (depending on power settings) and that's with relatively cheap power (and ignoring cooling). Your ISP would also like to have a little chat about your bandwidth usel... Oh, and you couldn't use wireless to watch it, while some wireless has the speed, it lacks stability (the faster you go the less stable it is).

This is with large spinners. There is the option of using SSDs, in fact it makes it really easy as there is gigantic SSDs, but while faster and the size, maintenance and power requirements would be MUCH smaller and easier to dealw ith (similar to a gaming desktop pc), the cost to build it would be over $4mil. Again, just to hold one (rather large) tv series.


Basically we're simply not ready for those kinds of data requirements.

[tp4tissue]

Here's Tp4's idea. We construct what Tp4 calls, Media Pylons, in the town square.

These will have fiber i/o, and you just bring your Striped storage over with at least 8 drives, then we can do 2GB/s. If you are loading alot of data, it'll be like tesla, we put it next to costco, you go eat some veggie stir-fry, and come back, you're ready to watch 8K.

Then there's overnight service, you leave your stripes there, we just pile it up with robots, and you come back in a day or 2, robot grabs it from the shelf, and you go home.

[TWX]

I'm sorry, but having started out with a video projector with a native 800x600 resolution at 4:3 aspect ratio shining on a 100" screen.  The quality improvements above Blu-ray at this scale in a home theater environment is going to be wasted.

Commercial cinema is only 2k or 4k depending on the projector, and those screens are considerably larger. 

[TomahawkLabs]

People seem to forget that some films are filmed with analog film and then digitally scanned at whatever resolution they feel like and then released (that's how we got Fantasia in 4k. That's why we can have 8k Star Wars rips, but Episode 1 is capped at 1080p because it was recorded with digital cameras vs film. More visual info is better than less.

8k is a very high resolution, but in a desk application or where the display is very large you can see differences (depending on displays and seating distances). Bandwidth and storage will always be an issue, but I like the idea of rugged SAN/NAS devices brought to a hub for loading while you shop, etc.

[phinix]

Your eyes don't see in 4K, and will lose fidelity and ability to see in low light as you grow older.

Yeah, I'm only 43 and already having problems reading stuff with dimmed light. I need to check it up cause it becomes so annoying when I for example play board games - cannot see anything on cards! What the hell! .... 

[Leslieann]

People seem to forget that some films are filmed with analog film and then digitally scanned at whatever resolution they feel like and then released (that's how we got Fantasia in 4k. That's why we can have 8k Star Wars rips, but Episode 1 is capped at 1080p because it was recorded with digital cameras vs film. More visual info is better than less.

The Star Wars master was cut up into pieces by Lucas himself to create the Christmas Special, if you hate life go look it up, it's... Something. I do NOT recommend.
Most "remasters" of it you find are built from found copies of theater copies and then restored or built off DVD or laser disk copies, there is no film master.

A lot of actual films are this way as it wasn't until the 80's or so that companies realized old films were worth anything and would just toss them in random dark vaults never to be seen again. Many were chopped up, others destroyed by fires.

[phinix]

People seem to forget that some films are filmed with analog film and then digitally scanned at whatever resolution they feel like and then released (that's how we got Fantasia in 4k. That's why we can have 8k Star Wars rips, but Episode 1 is capped at 1080p because it was recorded with digital cameras vs film. More visual info is better than less.

The Star Wars master was cut up into pieces by Lucas himself to create the Christmas Special, if you hate life go look it up, it's... Something. I do NOT recommend.
Most "remasters" of it you find are built from found copies of theater copies and then restored or built off DVD or laser disk copies, there is no film master.

A lot of actual films are this way as it wasn't until the 80's or so that companies realized old films were worth anything and would just toss them in random dark vaults never to be seen again. Many were chopped up, others destroyed by fires.

Oh, is that Christmas Special the one with Chewbacca family etc? Terrible, I couldn't believe it was actually out

[noisyturtle]

I'm still waiting for OLED screens that you can roll up, and have batteries that last nearly a decade. They promised us almost 20 years ago!

[phinix]

I'm still waiting for OLED screens that you can roll up, and have batteries that last nearly a decade. They promised us almost 20 years ago!

Noisy, you will get old before we see anything like that...

[Leslieann]

I'm still waiting for OLED screens that you can roll up, and have batteries that last nearly a decade. They promised us almost 20 years ago!

Noisy, you will get old before we see anything like that...

Yep, still waiting on flying cars, hoverboards, space rides, etc...
We already passed the original Back to the Future date and the 2001: A Space Odyssey date and 2010:The year We Make Contact (obviously), showing just how far behind where we expected to be.

What we got instead was Tik Tok and Kardashians.

[tp4tissue]

I'm still waiting for OLED screens that you can roll up, and have batteries that last nearly a decade. They promised us almost 20 years ago!

Noisy, you will get old before we see anything like that...

Yep, still waiting on flying cars, hoverboards, space rides, etc...
We already passed the original Back to the Future date and the 2001: A Space Odyssey date and 2010:The year We Make Contact (obviously), showing just how far behind where we expected to be.

What we got instead was Tik Tok and Kardashians.

In Back to the Future it was supposed to happen by 2015.

[fohat.digs]

We already passed the original Back to the Future date and the 2001: A Space Odyssey date and 2010

When I was in high school we read 1984 and THAT seemed far off.

[tp4tissue]

We already passed the original Back to the Future date and the 2001: A Space Odyssey date and 2010

When I was in high school we read 1984 and THAT seemed far off.

1984 describes the social reality. All the bad stuff in the book, that's all real, and it's been the historical undercurrent. A human collective could not operate any other way because of communication constraints. So really, the ideals of equality, harmony, is the fantasy we tell ourselves so we can DEAL-with living in the perpetual anthropocene dystopia.

None of us in the 1st world could live our existing lives if 100x other people didn't labor more than ourselves, ate less and used less.

If we trace a 15lb bag of rice to the source, that farmer was paid 50cents for it.

We're in the final 20 years of mankind. If we don't emerge from the chrysalis, an empathy driven species with normalized Non-violence, the flame will flicker and be out.

[TWX]

We already passed the original Back to the Future date and the 2001: A Space Odyssey date and 2010

When I was in high school we read 1984 and THAT seemed far off.

1984 describes the social reality. All the bad stuff in the book, that's all real, and it's been the historical undercurrent. A human collective could not operate any other way because of communication constraints. So really, the ideals of equality, harmony, is the fantasy we tell ourselves so we can DEAL-with living in the perpetual anthropocene dystopia.

None of us in the 1st world could live our existing lives if 100x other people didn't labor more than ourselves, ate less and used less.

If we trace a 15lb bag of rice to the source, that farmer was paid 50cents for it.

We're in the final 20 years of mankind. If we don't emerge from the chrysalis, an empathy driven species with normalized Non-violence, the flame will flicker and be out.

I don't buy it.  If I was going to choose any particular singular dystopian science fiction work to compare our world to, it would be to Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, a setting where most people have given up willfully through distraction and the pursuit of their own leisure most sorts of pursuits, where it's not really necessary to enact bans because most of the population isn't intellectually curious enough to pursue such subjects anyway.  We don't have telescreens imposed upon us, we embrace carrying our own trackers through our own convenience.

If you distill 1984 down and really look at it, not only is Winston unreliable as a narrator, O'Brien is unreliable, even the book-within-a-book claimed to be from Goldstein that serves as a treatise on how the world works may be unreliable.  We only have O'Brien's word and Goldstein's text provided by someone unmasked as a Party leader on the nature of their nation-state and the other nation-states, the war between them, and the way the greater world works.  None of them ever leaves what was formerly known as the island of Great Britain.  For all we know as an audience, "Airstrip One" may be an insular island country whose leadership attacks its own population in order to keep them brainwashed and compliant, and has nothing even to do with the rest of the Anglosphere that supposedly is Oceania.

In 1984 the heavy hand has to take everything away, but in Brave New World they abandon everything gladly.

As for the notion that we only have twenty years left as a global internetworked society due to income inequality, I have a feeling that humanity can be far, far crueler for far longer than you predict.  That farmer paid $0.50 for his bag of rice probably isn't forced into sharecropping, serfdom being bound to the land, or outright slavery.  Humans can and have treated each other far worse.

[noisyturtle]

Who'd have thought that it would be Mike Judge and Idiocracy that would prove to be the closest to our near-future

[Leslieann]

Who'd have thought that it would be Mike Judge and Idiocracy that would prove to be the closest to our near-future

I worry we're heading towards Cyberpunk 2077 (mixed with a little Ready player One).

[mohawk1367]

Who'd have thought that it would be Mike Judge and Idiocracy that would prove to be the closest to our near-future

I worry we're heading towards Cyberpunk 2077 (mixed with a little Ready player One).

i think RP1 is more accurate personally. a trashed world with people living in trash escaping through hyper advanced video games... cyberpunk might be more accurate for the rich though.

[tp4tissue]

Who'd have thought that it would be Mike Judge and Idiocracy that would prove to be the closest to our near-future

I worry we're heading towards Cyberpunk 2077 (mixed with a little Ready player One).

Tp4 WISHes we were headed towards Cyberpunk 2077.

However, we are with absolute certainty headed towards Mad Max Fury Road.

[Leslieann]

Who'd have thought that it would be Mike Judge and Idiocracy that would prove to be the closest to our near-future

I worry we're heading towards Cyberpunk 2077 (mixed with a little Ready player One).

i think RP1 is more accurate personally. a trashed world with people living in trash escaping through hyper advanced video games... cyberpunk might be more accurate for the rich though.

I'm thinking Cyberpunk for how corporations/oligarchs control everything plus the implants, but RP1 for how people lived just wherever, both had tons of trash. There are homeless in So. Cal almost there already. I hate to put blame on generations, but holy hell what happened to Boomers... they had it all handed to them, they even had hippies and free love and all that and yet look what they've become and turned this world into. Not blaming them all obviously, but it;s amazing how we went from Great Depression and Greatest Generation to this in just a decade or two under their control.

I just have a hard time seeing VR becoming what they make it out to be. Maybe I'm wrong but they've been promising it for decades. Second Life seems like the killer app for it but if you spend much time there it gets dull. Which I think is going to be Vr's problem in something like RP1. For all it can offer, it's a dead, lifeless experience over time. People want to interact in person even if only on occasion, they need to touch skin and grass. Plus everything gets old after a bit. Look at Facebook, or better yet, remember the Pokemon Go craze?

[fohat.digs]

Aldous Huxley's Brave New World

It was only in recent years that I read Huxley's superior Island, his last book. Much less ugly and more utopian, it is a fascinating commentary on the post-WW2 world.

The ending is ambiguous from the 1960 perspective, today's cruel world (that would have been a good alternative title) makes it heartbreaking.

[noisyturtle]

One thing I think we can agree on is the gap between the rich and middle-class is closing faster each passing year, and sooner than we think there will be no more middle class. Only the super rich and the poor will be left. No one in power or influence, nor the most desperate and destitute right now seems to care at all about balance and the future, or the fact that we all actually share this same, very limited space of which we only have one of.

Everyone wants everything now. Give me now. Money now, food now, drugs now, fame now. I don't wanna learn or work, I deserve to just have it handed to me.
We're never going to make it. I don't think we were ever meant to. You'd have to go all the way back, and restructure how humans think about societies.

[Leslieann]

Everyone wants everything now. Give me now. Money now, food now, drugs now, fame now. I don't wanna learn or work, I deserve to just have it handed to me.

They say this about every generation.

[fohat.digs]

the gap between the rich and middle-class is closing

I don't think this means what you think it means.

From the rest of your comments I think you mean to say that the gap between the middle class and lower class is closing.

[HoffmanMyster]

* HoffmanMyster pops in, ready to discuss the merits of 8K vs 4K video

[tp4tissue]

* HoffmanMyster pops in, ready to discuss the merits of 8K vs 4K video

This only happens because everyone is so _La Familia_, anything goes.

But overall, Tp4 really thinks 8K is well within the cards. Especially when we go to 100 inch and up.

[TWX]

Everyone wants everything now. Give me now. Money now, food now, drugs now, fame now. I don't wanna learn or work, I deserve to just have it handed to me.

They say this about every generation.

Yes:

What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the laws. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?

Young people have exalted notions, because they have not yet been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: their lives are regulated more by moral feelings than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.

Citation.

[Darthbaggins]

I'm still waiting for OLED screens that you can roll up, and have batteries that last nearly a decade. They promised us almost 20 years ago!

LG made one. . .

[tp4tissue]

I'm still waiting for OLED screens that you can roll up, and have batteries that last nearly a decade. They promised us almost 20 years ago!

LG made one. . .

These are just not durable enough to be practical.

LED wall is the logical next step.

OLED is having alot of trouble competing with the Chinese LCDs, even though OLED provides the best image quality as of yet.

TCL is heavily researching Oled after buying JOLED, so they will probably overpower the koreans in the future because they've reaped all the base market.

$2000 on sale samsung 77 inch oled,  $2000 on sale TCL 98 inch LCD.