Advice / Recs on Topre?... Too many decisions!

[DaBubbs]

I am in a good spot but it has led to too many decisions and I simply cannot make up my mind. My first Topre keyboard came a few months ago... a 55g RF 87u. Used it for about a month. I wouldn't necessarily use the phrases like "typing on clouds" or "I just keep typing to listen to the keys" but I do prefer Topre over my MX clears on my Code keyboard.

So my curiosity got the best of me and over the last month, I have added a Leopold FC660C and a HHKB Pro 2. I really like heavier switches so I found the typing experience on the 87u by far the best. The FC660C feels like a 50g and the HHKB is definitely the lightest at 45g. But, I also have found out that I really like the smaller form factors... and the HHKB is not only very functional, it just looks great too.

The issue that I have with the FC660C and the HHKB is that they do not feel as snappy / responsive on the return of the key upward to the resting position after pressed compared to the 87u. In other words, they feel slower on the return up. I find myself making more typing mistakes with FC660C and HHKB, perhaps because of the lighter switches.

I have read quite a few posts about not switching the 55g domes of the 87u into the HHKB because "it is too heavy". For anyone who has done it and feels that way, what does that mean? I feel like if I can make my HHKB feel the same weight as my 87u, that would be pure gold!

Another decision. I have enough silencing Hypersphere's to silence one board. Weirdly enough, I prefer the sound of the FC660C and the HHKB such that I do not know if I should silence them or not. I work in my own office with a door so there is no one to bug but myself. I would silence the 87u though.

So before I start taking apart any keyboards and switching things around, I thought I would ask if anyone has any recommendations / advice, especially from people who have already been switching things around. Thanks!

[dgneo]

A lot of people don't recommend 55g on HHKB, because the plastic plate gives too much to feel the proper tactility of the 55g domes. IMO 55g is best suited to metal plate boards, such as the FC660C or 87u.

As for silencing/lubing, it's really a personal choice. If you like the sound and feeling of the boards now, I'd recommend sticking it with.

[DaBubbs]

As a follow up... there is one other item I am thinking about. Like most, I have no interest and use for CapsLock. I am fine using it as Ctrl but I am also fine with Ctrl in its normal spot.

So I started thinking about what CapsLock could be and I ran across a lot of people switching CapsLock to backspace. Using the HHKB for a week solid, I found my right pinky finger getting slightly sore from using it for backspace. For my keyboard life before the HHKB, when backspace was higher, I had used my right ring finger for backspace. So that is what led me to look at using CapsLock for backspace. So on my FC660C today, I mapped CapsLock to backspace in my registry. I like it but it is going to take some getting used to. The nice thing is that now I have two backspaces... the original backspace and the new CapsLock backspace and I can use either.

In the end, if I can get a 55g HHKB working right, I am absolutely leaning that way. But I would not have the opportunity to use CapsLock as backspace as CapsLock is already Ctrl.

Has anyone had his dilemma... especially slight pinky finger fatigue when switching over to the HHKB? I assume my pinky just needs to get used to it and it will get used to it / get stronger.

[Tactile]

...if I can get a 55g HHKB working right, I am absolutely leaning that way. But I would not have the opportunity to use CapsLock as backspace as CapsLock is already Ctrl.

You can do that, and a whole lot more, with Hasu's controller.

[DaBubbs]

...if I can get a 55g HHKB working right, I am absolutely leaning that way. But I would not have the opportunity to use CapsLock as backspace as CapsLock is already Ctrl.

You can do that, and a whole lot more, with Hasu's controller.

Thanks for reminding me. I have heard a little about Hasu's controller but I need to do some further research. I remember thinking that even if I didn't get it working right, it would be fun to play with.

Tactile, do you own or have you used a 55g HHKB?

[Tactile]

...if I can get a 55g HHKB working right, I am absolutely leaning that way. But I would not have the opportunity to use CapsLock as backspace as CapsLock is already Ctrl.

You can do that, and a whole lot more, with Hasu's controller.

Thanks for reminding me. I have heard a little about Hasu's controller but I need to do some further research. I remember thinking that even if I didn't get it working right, it would be fun to play with.

Tactile, do you own or have you used a 55g HHKB?

Nope. I have a 55 gram Realforce and a HHKB and I just recently sold a HHKB Type S. After playing with all of these I've decided that I like my HHKB just stock, not silenced, and I don't have any desire to change the weight. Just a regular HHKB is my preference.

OTOH, if I could only keep one of my keyboards and had to get rid of the rest, my 55 gram Realforce 87U would be the one I'd keep. But that's not only because of the typing feel, it's the whole package - build quality, the embedded numeric keypad, and, of course, the typing feel is in there, too.

[DaBubbs]

OTOH, if I could only keep one of my keyboards and had to get rid of the rest, my 55 gram Realforce 87U would be the one I'd keep. But that's not only because of the typing feel, it's the whole package - build quality, the embedded numeric keypad, and, of course, the typing feel is in there, too.

That is exactly how I feel... and that is source of my angst as well. If I could just get the HHKB layout with the 55g 87u feel, I think that it would be perfect. I guess worse case, I can always move the domes back to the 87u and just use that as my daily driver.

I appreciate the FC660C and enjoy using it but I think it would be #3 on the list with the HHKB and the 55g 87u.

[Tactile]

I've been talking about it so much I just can't resist... here it is.

[DaBubbs]

I've been talking about it so much I just can't resist... here it is.
(Attachment Link)

Very nice!

And mine:

[Hammithimmis]

I'm typing on a 55g HHKB BT (along with silent purple sliders) and it's wonderful.  I felt the same about the stock 45g domes, which to my fingers were a bit mushy and not snappy enough.  You can't replicate the exact tactility and solid feel of the 55g RF due to the lack of metal backplate, but most of the tactility and snappiness carries over while retaining that soft HHKB feel.  It's a great hybrid for me, although I wouldn't mind it being even heavier.

[alfmoonspace]

Where did you guys pick up your 87U?

[Tactile]

Where did you guys pick up your 87U?

My 87UB55 came from Elite Keyboards. I bought the Realforce cap set from someone here on Geekhack.

[DaBubbs]

Where did you guys pick up your 87U?

I picked mine up from Amazon because Elite Keyboards was out of stock. Amazon also has a very generous return policy if you are a Prime member. (This was my first Topre board and had no idea if I would like it.) And lastly, if you get an Amazon store card (line of credit), you get 5% off all Amazon purchases.

I picked up the Topre red escape from Mechanical Keyboard I think. I got a bunch of nice PBT Topre spacebars and other PBT keys on EBay and Ali Express (both from Japan).

[DaBubbs]

I'm typing on a 55g HHKB BT (along with silent purple sliders) and it's wonderful.  I felt the same about the stock 45g domes, which to my fingers were a bit mushy and not snappy enough.  You can't replicate the exact tactility and solid feel of the 55g RF due to the lack of metal backplate, but most of the tactility and snappiness carries over while retaining that soft HHKB feel.  It's a great hybrid for me, although I wouldn't mind it being even heavier.

Well, your post made total sense and make me even more want to mod my HHKB to 55g. Thanks!

What I am mainly interested in transferring over from the 87u to the HHKB is the snappiness. In fact, I wonder if I will like case mounted 55g better than 55g metal plate because it is not as hard if I bottom out. Overall, it boils down to personal presence in the end but you hit the nail on the head... a snappier, but softer HHKB (then metal plate).

[_rubik]

I will always say 55g 87u, but I completely agree that a 55g wouldn't work well on other plastic plates. If you're looking for a 60% ish layout, the hhkb is always an option (I'm partial to the Pro JP). I would also give the fc660c a good look now that Hasu has developed a controller for it.

[varmemester]

As a follow up... there is one other item I am thinking about. Like most, I have no interest and use for CapsLock. I am fine using it as Ctrl but I am also fine with Ctrl in its normal spot.

So I started thinking about what CapsLock could be and I ran across a lot of people switching CapsLock to backspace. Using the HHKB for a week solid, I found my right pinky finger getting slightly sore from using it for backspace. For my keyboard life before the HHKB, when backspace was higher, I had used my right ring finger for backspace. So that is what led me to look at using CapsLock for backspace. So on my FC660C today, I mapped CapsLock to backspace in my registry. I like it but it is going to take some getting used to. The nice thing is that now I have two backspaces... the original backspace and the new CapsLock backspace and I can use either.

I am about to pull the trigger on a FC660c (EW). Really excited . Do you know the size of the backspace and caps lock key? If they are both 2u I could just switch the keycaps, right? And use keytweak or something else to update the registry..

[Bucake]

caps lock is 1,75 i think. besides, they're different rows, so it would probably feel and look weird.

[hking0036]

As a follow up... there is one other item I am thinking about. Like most, I have no interest and use for CapsLock. I am fine using it as Ctrl but I am also fine with Ctrl in its normal spot.

So I started thinking about what CapsLock could be and I ran across a lot of people switching CapsLock to backspace. Using the HHKB for a week solid, I found my right pinky finger getting slightly sore from using it for backspace. For my keyboard life before the HHKB, when backspace was higher, I had used my right ring finger for backspace. So that is what led me to look at using CapsLock for backspace. So on my FC660C today, I mapped CapsLock to backspace in my registry. I like it but it is going to take some getting used to. The nice thing is that now I have two backspaces... the original backspace and the new CapsLock backspace and I can use either.

I am about to pull the trigger on a FC660c (EW). Really excited . Do you know the size of the backspace and caps lock key? If they are both 2u I could just switch the keycaps, right? And use keytweak or something else to update the registry..

Bottom row is the only nonstandard row on the 660c, plus right shift. The colors aren't the same as any realforce boards and neither is the font, plus backspace for caps lock isn't very common so I doubt you'll find it. Backspace is 2u, caps is 1.75 plus they're different rows.

[Hypersphere]

I own, or have owned, the following Topre-switch keyboards:

HHKB Pro 2 45
HHKB Pro 2 45 Type-S
HHKB Pro 2 modded to 55
Leopold FC660C 45
Novatouch 45
RF 87U 45
RF87U 55

When I first modded my HHKB to 55g, I really liked the pronounced tactility. However, after a while, I found that I preferred the stock 45g weight. The same with the RF, although the preference was less clear with the plate-mounted switches.

In all cases, I prefer my Topre switches to be lubed and silenced.

I liked the feel of the FC660C, but I didn't like the layout or the caps that were available at the time, so I sold it.

My current daily driver is a HHKB Pro 2 45 lubed and silenced. I have the black (dark gray) model with blank black mods and spacebar, blue alphas, and red Esc and Fn. I love the 60% form factor, HHKB layout, sound, feel, and appearance of this board.

[tp4tissue]

I own, or have owned, the following Topre-switch keyboards:

HHKB Pro 2 45
HHKB Pro 2 45 Type-S
HHKB Pro 2 modded to 55
Leopold FC660C 45
Novatouch 45
RF 87U 45
RF87U 55

When I first modded my HHKB to 55g, I really liked the pronounced tactility. However, after a while, I found that I preferred the stock 45g weight. The same with the RF, although the preference was less clear with the plate-mounted switches.

In all cases, I prefer my Topre switches to be lubed and silenced.

I liked the feel of the FC660C, but I didn't like the layout or the caps that were available at the time, so I sold it.

My current daily driver is a HHKB Pro 2 45 lubed and silenced. I have the black (dark gray) model with blank black mods and spacebar, blue alphas, and red Esc and Fn. I love the 60% form factor, HHKB layout, sound, feel, and appearance of this board.

I think silenced is absolutely the way to go. because Topre snapback is extremely loud even compared to MX

[DaBubbs]

I own, or have owned, the following Topre-switch keyboards:

HHKB Pro 2 45
HHKB Pro 2 45 Type-S
HHKB Pro 2 modded to 55
Leopold FC660C 45
Novatouch 45
RF 87U 45
RF87U 55

When I first modded my HHKB to 55g, I really liked the pronounced tactility. However, after a while, I found that I preferred the stock 45g weight. The same with the RF, although the preference was less clear with the plate-mounted switches.

In all cases, I prefer my Topre switches to be lubed and silenced.

I liked the feel of the FC660C, but I didn't like the layout or the caps that were available at the time, so I sold it.

My current daily driver is a HHKB Pro 2 45 lubed and silenced. I have the black (dark gray) model with blank black mods and spacebar, blue alphas, and red Esc and Fn. I love the 60% form factor, HHKB layout, sound, feel, and appearance of this board.

Thanks for the reply. I am moving in a similar manner.

My FC660C is very well built and I like it, but the key layout leaves a little to be desired for me.

I really like my HHKB but I tried someone's 55g HHKB and again, I really liked it but it was not an endgame keyboard for me. Furthermore, I have had a few people at work driving on my computer lately and they really get thrown by my HHKB. Lastly, doing some IT work on other computers, I find that switching between my HHKB to a traditional keyboard layout isn't that tough but 1) it takes me a few moments to remember where the keys now are and 2) I do this a few times a day.

So in the end, I have decided to stick with the RF 87U 55g. I found myself keep coming back to it and thoroughly enjoying using it.

I remember reading a post somewhere on here where the person wrote that they found using anything less than a tenkeyless reduced their productivity. I can see what he is saying. I think if I had continued to use my HHKB for months and years, I would have gotten even better at using the function later, especially the function layer arrow keys. But I had a lot of typing to do (6 page newsletter to clients) to put together and I ended up getting frustrated by my HHKB and switched, yet again, back to my RF 87U 55g.

Now, I am in the process of accumulating what I need to build two silenced RF 87U 55g (one for home and one for work) and a RF 23U silenced 55g. As soon as the 55g RF 87U's get back in stock at EK, I am off to the races.

[Hypersphere]

I own, or have owned, the following Topre-switch keyboards:

HHKB Pro 2 45
HHKB Pro 2 45 Type-S
HHKB Pro 2 modded to 55
Leopold FC660C 45
Novatouch 45
RF 87U 45
RF87U 55

When I first modded my HHKB to 55g, I really liked the pronounced tactility. However, after a while, I found that I preferred the stock 45g weight. The same with the RF, although the preference was less clear with the plate-mounted switches.

In all cases, I prefer my Topre switches to be lubed and silenced.

I liked the feel of the FC660C, but I didn't like the layout or the caps that were available at the time, so I sold it.

My current daily driver is a HHKB Pro 2 45 lubed and silenced. I have the black (dark gray) model with blank black mods and spacebar, blue alphas, and red Esc and Fn. I love the 60% form factor, HHKB layout, sound, feel, and appearance of this board.

Thanks for the reply. I am moving in a similar manner.

My FC660C is very well built and I like it, but the key layout leaves a little to be desired for me.

I really like my HHKB but I tried someone's 55g HHKB and again, I really liked it but it was not an endgame keyboard for me. Furthermore, I have had a few people at work driving on my computer lately and they really get thrown by my HHKB. Lastly, doing some IT work on other computers, I find that switching between my HHKB to a traditional keyboard layout isn't that tough but 1) it takes me a few moments to remember where the keys now are and 2) I do this a few times a day.

So in the end, I have decided to stick with the RF 87U 55g. I found myself keep coming back to it and thoroughly enjoying using it.

I remember reading a post somewhere on here where the person wrote that they found using anything less than a tenkeyless reduced their productivity. I can see what he is saying. I think if I had continued to use my HHKB for months and years, I would have gotten even better at using the function later, especially the function layer arrow keys. But I had a lot of typing to do (6 page newsletter to clients) to put together and I ended up getting frustrated by my HHKB and switched, yet again, back to my RF 87U 55g.

Now, I am in the process of accumulating what I need to build two silenced RF 87U 55g (one for home and one for work) and a RF 23U silenced 55g. As soon as the 55g RF 87U's get back in stock at EK, I am off to the races.

We are fortunate to have such good options.

In my case, I like the size and symmetry of the 60% form factor so much that I have difficulty switching to TKL or full-size boards. This makes it difficult to accommodate my recent passion for Alps-switch keyboards. Ultimately, I will need to build a custom 60%.

The same goes for the HHKB layout. I find it very difficult to switch to a conventional layout. When using my own computers or keyboards, I remap them to the extent possible using remapping software or hardware converters.

It is fortunate for you that you are okay with TKL and that you prefer a standard layout. The RF87U is a fine keyboard, and you can get it ready-made with either 45g or 55g domes.

[DaBubbs]

I own, or have owned, the following Topre-switch keyboards:

HHKB Pro 2 45
HHKB Pro 2 45 Type-S
HHKB Pro 2 modded to 55
Leopold FC660C 45
Novatouch 45
RF 87U 45
RF87U 55

When I first modded my HHKB to 55g, I really liked the pronounced tactility. However, after a while, I found that I preferred the stock 45g weight. The same with the RF, although the preference was less clear with the plate-mounted switches.

In all cases, I prefer my Topre switches to be lubed and silenced.

I liked the feel of the FC660C, but I didn't like the layout or the caps that were available at the time, so I sold it.

My current daily driver is a HHKB Pro 2 45 lubed and silenced. I have the black (dark gray) model with blank black mods and spacebar, blue alphas, and red Esc and Fn. I love the 60% form factor, HHKB layout, sound, feel, and appearance of this board.

Thanks for the reply. I am moving in a similar manner.

My FC660C is very well built and I like it, but the key layout leaves a little to be desired for me.

I really like my HHKB but I tried someone's 55g HHKB and again, I really liked it but it was not an endgame keyboard for me. Furthermore, I have had a few people at work driving on my computer lately and they really get thrown by my HHKB. Lastly, doing some IT work on other computers, I find that switching between my HHKB to a traditional keyboard layout isn't that tough but 1) it takes me a few moments to remember where the keys now are and 2) I do this a few times a day.

So in the end, I have decided to stick with the RF 87U 55g. I found myself keep coming back to it and thoroughly enjoying using it.

I remember reading a post somewhere on here where the person wrote that they found using anything less than a tenkeyless reduced their productivity. I can see what he is saying. I think if I had continued to use my HHKB for months and years, I would have gotten even better at using the function later, especially the function layer arrow keys. But I had a lot of typing to do (6 page newsletter to clients) to put together and I ended up getting frustrated by my HHKB and switched, yet again, back to my RF 87U 55g.

Now, I am in the process of accumulating what I need to build two silenced RF 87U 55g (one for home and one for work) and a RF 23U silenced 55g. As soon as the 55g RF 87U's get back in stock at EK, I am off to the races.

We are fortunate to have such good options.

In my case, I like the size and symmetry of the 60% form factor so much that I have difficulty switching to TKL or full-size boards. This makes it difficult to accommodate my recent passion for Alps-switch keyboards. Ultimately, I will need to build a custom 60%.

The same goes for the HHKB layout. I find it very difficult to switch to a conventional layout. When using my own computers or keyboards, I remap them to the extent possible using remapping software or hardware converters.

It is fortunate for you that you are okay with TKL and that you prefer a standard layout. The RF87U is a fine keyboard, and you can get it ready-made with either 45g or 55g domes.

I hear ya! When I made the decision to stick with the RF 87U and expand that route, I was a little sad because I do really like the HHKB.

I think for me, it is just what I am used to. All those years in college and graduate school programming and typing on a traditional layout, I am just so used to it. And you are right, it does help that I can just order a pre-made 55g RF. Takes some stress and work off my plate.

[tp4tissue]

There are major drawbacks to the HHKB,  when you're trying to get work done.. the required layering situation is almost always in the way..

[q1w2e3r4t5z]

Late to the party, but....

I recently switched my HHKB Type-S from 55g domes (Before I used the standard lightweight 45g) to Sony BKE domes - they feel a small tad heavier but the increase of tactility was what made me fall in love with it again. If you have the chance of trying them please do, it feels like a whole different board to me