Author Topic: Meat itself.. (Read 3720 times)

tp4tissue · « **on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:26:01 »

Doesn't actually taste good.

The majority of humans eat meat.

Typically it's seasoned WITH plants.

The whole point of our very complicated culinary manipulation of meat, is to trick the brain into thinking it's eating Plants.

For example.. Tp4's beloved Fried chicken..

____ Secret spices

--------------------- to make it smell like a plant..

____ Flour breading

--------------------- to give it a starchy/crunchy plant-like outer coating.
--------------------- (New 6th taste, starch, discovered 2016, google it)

____ Sugar

--------------------- to make it taste slightly like a fruit..

God I love fried chicken...

However, Chicken doesn't itself taste very pleasant, and the majority of chicken patrons actually quite dislike the gamy odor to chicken, which is why we spent all that time covering it up with other plant flavors.

The bulk of culinary tradition can then be understood as how to make something disgusting to the human palate, palatable.

Now , eating meat is the correct option from the wilderness survival standpoint. Humans eating meat is NATURAL, calories by ANY MEANS, if you can find calories, You eat it..

But we have to consider that Today's humans have a choice to NOT waste all that time preparing and eating what's fundamentally an unpleasant ingredient.

Ontop of the more recent revelations that meat directly causes cancer/ heartdisease/ diabetes/ and stroke...

It's just simply the wrong food for the modern Human..

Kavik · « **Reply #1 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:39:25 »

I usually pan fry chicken in butter (cow milk fat) with salt (mineral that extracts native juices of the meat). Tastes pretty good to me. Ok, I also add pepper, which is a plant, but it's not necessary.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #2 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:45:41 »

Quote from: Kavik on Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:39:25

I usually pan fry chicken in butter (cow milk fat) with salt (mineral that extracts native juices of the meat). Tastes pretty good to me. Ok, I also add pepper, which is a plant, but it's not necessary.

Variations exist, but even under your lower complexity processing, High heat Cooking itself creates odors and particles that naturally exist in UNPROCESSED plants.

The ADDITION of fats is a big part of it as well , Our palate is designed to search FOR FATS, because it's double the caloric density of starch, but natural wild-concentration of available Fats given fixed foraging (range) / (area) is typically very low.

- only after advanced human cultivation and breeding of plants, have we arrived at some of our high-oiled counterparts today.

- and only after mass farming began were we able to change Fats from a condiment to main-course.

- even 50 years ago in less affluent countries, they weren't able to eat much fats outside of the 10-20 grams per person used for cooking.

- Today's humans often eat 50-100 grams of fats per day through cooking/ processing/ and Meats

- 2/3 adults have heart disease

- 1/3 die from heart disease

- 1/3 adults die from cancer

Then finally, we consider acclimitization.. most of us grew up eating lots of meat, so we get used to certain flavors and accept that this is the way it is..

Similar to the process where people Learn to enjoy the taste of beer, which is a bitter, TOXIC, and overall foul yeast p00p..

REAL carnivores do not like cooked meats as much the Slimy raw version, because that's BY DESIGN.

Whereas, Human meat consumption is something like Ad-Hoc..

jdcarpe · « **Reply #3 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:57:38 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:45:41

REAL carnivores do not like cooked meats as much the Slimy raw version, because that's BY DESIGN.

I guess this is why I like my steak cooked RARE

tp4tissue · « **Reply #4 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:01:46 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:57:38

Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:45:41
REAL carnivores do not like cooked meats as much the Slimy raw version, because that's BY DESIGN.

I guess this is why I like my steak cooked RARE

Cooked is the key difference..

but, there is also having been a long time meat eater, you learn to associate certain Foul-Flavors of meat with positives such as satiety.

We consider acclimitization..

Similar to the process where people Learn to enjoy the taste of beer, which is a bitter, TOXIC, and overall foul yeast p00p..

noisyturtle · « **Reply #5 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:08:31 »

Cook up a ribeye with no seasoning - it's still delicious. You can't explain that!

Heck, raw beef aint half-bad either in a tartar. And how about sushi?

tp4tissue · « **Reply #6 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:13:09 »

Quote from: noisyturtle on Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:08:31

Cook up a ribeye with no seasoning - it's still delicious. You can't explain that!

Heck, raw beef aint half-bad either in a tartar. And how about sushi?

Hahaha.. I HAVE explained it NT, you're choosing to justify your choices through aversion of the facts..

Humans are designed primary for plant-foods..

We've evolved for millions of years where plants were the main meal

For early humans it was Hella difficult to eat all that much meat.. we managed it sometimes, but our bodies weren't thoroughly prepared for it, as we are prepared for the plants we've had for millions of years.

NT, I realize you've recently invested a great deal of effort in the Atkins diet.

As long as the calories equation is balanced, it SHOULD work w/ respect to weightloss..

But it is very much a HALF-measure towards Healthy-Living..

-- Even if you manage this diet and lose weight

-- If you are kind of BIG now, which I assume you are, you WILL have a serious cardiac event between age 45 and 55.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #7 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:18:00 »

Actually, early humans were hunters and gatherers, and agriculture did not develop for quite some time. Humans are of course omnivores who can derive calories from many sources.

If we are not evolved to consume animals, explain cuspid teeth...

tp4tissue · « **Reply #8 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:26:23 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:18:00

Actually, early humans were hunters and gatherers, and agriculture did not develop for quite some time. Humans are of course omnivores who can derive calories from many sources.

If we are not evolved to consume animals, explain cuspid teeth...

Hahaha..

Early humans WERE INDEED hunter, gatherers..

And I agree that humans, living in the wild SHOULD EAT MEAT, and it should be considered NATURAL.

There are many things distinguishing carnivores // omnivores// herbivores.

It's IMPORTANT, to keep in mind that these are not rigid lines.. They are man made shortcut definitions, and There are grey areas..

The situation is more clear, when we discard certain definitions temporarily, and ask the questions

Well, If humans ate MEAT, how healthy are they,

If humans ate ALL PLANTS, how healthy are they.

So in ALL of the Longest living human collectives, we've documented them eating 95-100% plant based .

And then we look at OUR population with chronic heart disease/ diabetes/ cancer/ stroke, Meat is the main difference.

This is put most clearly in the adventist study done on california's 7th day adventist group.

The meat eaters of that group, significantly outpace the Vegans in Disease

jdcarpe · « **Reply #9 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:45:44 »

So if anyone cared to do the research, I'm sure their findings would show exactly what I'm about to describe. The problem is, there is no money in researching things that don't show an advantage toward one thing or another.

As with all things, balance is the key...

If one were to graph life expectancy based on average daily physical activity over the years, I expect that we are currently in a decline. We have developed technology to allow us more leisure time, which in turn has reduced the amount of physical activity required of the average human living in a developed society. At one time, physical demands kept our bodies working at their peak for most of our lives, but medicine had not advanced to the point where life expectancy was at a maximum, due to disease and other factors.

If one were to graph life expectancy based on average daily caloric intake over the years, again I expect we are in a decline. Most people in developed societies now eat an excess of calories, especially in the U.S. Our meal portion sizes have grown steadily in recent years, due to a percieved increase in value with larger portions.

Dietary needs have changed little over the course of human evolution. A balance of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats are recommended for a healthy diet. The body also requires certain vitamins and minerals in order properly to function. It matters little the source of those nutrients, whether derived from plant or animal sources. Our bodies have evolved to make use of the nutrients from both those sources. Any study which purports to show the benefit of one to the exclusion of the other must have an agenda, and their conclusions will obviously support the outcome they were seeking. Otherwise, the results would not be published, and the research thrown out as flawed.

chyros · « **Reply #10 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:51:12 »

This is just incredible bullcrap

. A good steak tastes great by itself. Bacon needs nothing at all. Cured meats and sausages are delicious. There's a huge list of meats that go great just on their own.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #11 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 12:23:05 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:45:44

So if anyone cared to do the research, I'm sure their findings would show exactly what I'm about to describe. The problem is, there is no money in researching things that don't show an advantage toward one thing or another.

As with all things, balance is the key...

If one were to graph life expectancy based on average daily physical activity over the years, I expect that we are currently in a decline. We have developed technology to allow us more leisure time, which in turn has reduced the amount of physical activity required of the average human living in a developed society. At one time, physical demands kept our bodies working at their peak for most of our lives, but medicine had not advanced to the point where life expectancy was at a maximum, due to disease and other factors.

If one were to graph life expectancy based on average daily caloric intake over the years, again I expect we are in a decline. Most people in developed societies now eat an excess of calories, especially in the U.S. Our meal portion sizes have grown steadily in recent years, due to a percieved increase in value with larger portions.

Dietary needs have changed little over the course of human evolution. A balance of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats are recommended for a healthy diet. The body also requires certain vitamins and minerals in order properly to function. It matters little the source of those nutrients, whether derived from plant or animal sources. Our bodies have evolved to make use of the nutrients from both those sources. Any study which purports to show the benefit of one to the exclusion of the other must have an agenda, and their conclusions will obviously support the outcome they were seeking. Otherwise, the results would not be published, and the research thrown out as flawed.

Hahaha.. NO MONEY?

The meat industry spends billions to prove meat is good for you, where do you think the money for that BUTTER doesn't raise cholesterol Times-Article came from.. But guess what.. It's still ILLEGAL to label butter and egg-products using the word HEALTHY, because, it's NOT.

If anyone doesn't have enough money for research, it's the vegans, because Heart disease / Cancer / Stroke / Diabetes is MUCH MORE PROFITABLE than general vegetable-sales.

Heart disease surgery accounts for 70% of the revenue for major hospitals..

It is a capitalist dilemma, as much as it is social, as much as it is PERSONAL

-- Daily exercise

.. Alot of research has been done on this, the lack of xercise, contributes to --Phatness--, but as we know now, Just because you're skinny, Does not mean you can't have a heart attack and clogged arteries..

---Life Expectancy

Life expectancy is ONE measure.. but it lacks attention to the fact that Even if most americans live to 75, they're lame, disabled, diseased, demented, and in bed.

Meanwhile, the Vegan americans from the 7th day adventist heath study, the LONGEST living group in United States, are out doing yardwork at Year 90.

---Balance of proteins..

You are correct that there is an Optimal setting.

And turns out, those noisy vegans were right.. hahaha..

Human breast milk, the ideal (food) literally created by humans FOR humans.. Contains 1% protein..

A human baby's first year of growth, while the Mother is producing, is the HIGHEST rate of growth in mass, in the ENTIRE HUMAN's lifespan.

That is to say, EVEN at THIS Highest stage of development, NATURE SAYS, 1% protein is enough.. 1% ..Human breast milk has 1% protein..

noisyturtle · « **Reply #12 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 14:57:12 »

Breast milk is very unhealthy for adult humans to consume, read any study. You're acting like a developing baby has the same biology as a full-grown adult which is completely untrue.

dgneo · « **Reply #13 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 15:00:34 »

Quote from: chyros on Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:51:12

This is just incredible bullcrap . A good steak tastes great by itself. Bacon needs nothing at all. Cured meats and sausages are delicious. There's a huge list of meats that go great just on their own.

You forget TP4 is clearly knower of all things.

dgneo · « **Reply #14 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 15:01:52 »

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/avyqjg/its-now-seven-years-since-this-guy-ate-anything-besides-raw-meat

tp4tissue · « **Reply #15 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 15:58:38 »

Quote from: dgneo on Tue, 23 January 2018, 15:01:52

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/avyqjg/its-now-seven-years-since-this-guy-ate-anything-besides-raw-meat

Hahahaha.. the Meat peeps love this guy..

Look at it this way.. That one guy, (who is probably) going to die of heart disease or some infectious disease or cancer is JUST ONE GUY.

The entirety of America is proof that eating (The current quantity) of meat that we do, is NOT working..

2/3 people have heart disease

1/3 people die from it

1/3 people die from cancer

1/3 people have diabetes, (Caused by fats consumption, NOT SUGAR), A diabetic can not eat sugar, but the sugar did not cause his diabetes.

noisyturtle · « **Reply #16 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:00:35 »

tp4tissue · « **Reply #17 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:01:56 »

Quote from: noisyturtle on Tue, 23 January 2018, 14:57:12

Breast milk is very unhealthy for adult humans to consume, read any study. You're acting like a developing baby has the same biology as a full-grown adult which is completely untrue.

No one is suggesting you go and drink milk.

hahahaha.

The point is, at the time of greatest change in MASS, the required protein is only 1%..

No other point in the human lifespan are we changing in mass as we do at birth..

Protein is of NO CONCERN , as long as you're not hungry, you can disregard the quantity of protein you are consuming. It will never be a problem..

The entire premise behind protein craze was a marketing campaign for the meat industry.. It's not entirely different from marlboro man.. who also died of cancer.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #18 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:15:09 »

There is another German guy on youtube who eats raw meat..

You can tell immediately that this guy is rapidly deteriorating simply from how much hair loss he's incurred at such a young age.

If you are noticing a good deal of hair-thinning in your 30s, Yup, it's the meats..

He's posted his blood work as well..

So as you see, his Cholesterol is 220, LDL is Dangerously high at 160, and his Triglycerides are at 106

Assuming this guys continues at this level, He is set to have a first serious cardiac event before age 50

For reference, Tp4's numbers are 125 Cholesterol, 61 LDL, 68 Triglycerides

To understand cholesterol, the AMERICAN average is ~200..

This is the same American population where 2/3 people have heart disease and 1/3 people die from it.

Source: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=91212.0

Pretty much Everyone eating meat, has high cholesterol, or will eventually have high cholesterol. the ONLY population on the planet with LOW cholesterol CURRENTLY, are plant-based foods populations,

chyros · « **Reply #19 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:17:34 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 23 January 2018, 15:58:38

Quote from: dgneo on Tue, 23 January 2018, 15:01:52
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/avyqjg/its-now-seven-years-since-this-guy-ate-anything-besides-raw-meat

Hahahaha.. the Meat peeps love this guy..

Look at it this way.. That one guy, (who is probably) going to die of heart disease or some infectious disease or cancer is JUST ONE GUY.

The entirety of America is proof that eating (The current quantity) of meat that we do, is NOT working..

2/3 people have heart disease

1/3 people die from it

1/3 people die from cancer

1/3 people have diabetes, (Caused by fats consumption, NOT SUGAR), A diabetic can not eat sugar, but the sugar did not cause his diabetes.

So... the secret to the American eating problem is that they eat meat?

So how are South America, South Africa, and Central and Eastern Europe still alive?

nugglets · « **Reply #20 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:22:11 »

This whole rant is based on the "fact" that meat, by itself, doesn't taste good.

That can never be proven as fact, only objective opinion.

You say we "learn" to like the flavor because it fits your narrative, but show me something that proves it.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #21 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:25:58 »

Quote from: nugglets on Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:22:11

This whole rant is based on the "fact" that meat, by itself, doesn't taste good.

That can never be proven as fact, only objective opinion.

You say we "learn" to like the flavor because it fits your narrative, but show me something that proves it.

Hahahahahahaha

Give a human child a lump of raw meat,

Give a human child a slice of apple,

Give a cat a lump of raw meat

Give a cat a slice of apple..

If you can find a human child that will enjoy chewing the red meat and swallow it, you win. !!

nugglets · « **Reply #22 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:27:13 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:25:58

Quote from: nugglets on Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:22:11
This whole rant is based on the "fact" that meat, by itself, doesn't taste good.

That can never be proven as fact, only objective opinion.

You say we "learn" to like the flavor because it fits your narrative, but show me something that proves it.

Hahahahahahaha

Give a human child a lump of raw meat,

Give a human child a slice of apple,

Give a cat a lump of raw meat

Give a cat a slice of apple..

If you can find a human child that will enjoy chewing the red meat and swallow it, you win. !!

My 2yo niece loves sashimi.

I win, I guess.

You're also comparing something sweet to the meat.

How about giving a child a handful of raw brussel sprouts? If they don't chew it, all plants taste like ****. Same logic you're using =)

tp4tissue · « **Reply #23 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:28:55 »

Quote from: chyros on Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:17:34

So... the secret to the American eating problem is that they eat meat?

So how are South America, South Africa, and Central and Eastern Europe still alive?

It's impossible in the current times to find entire Nations, eating primarily plant based.

I am unsure of the point you're trying to make.

But, these graph clearly illustrate the problem.

Keep in mind, Red Meat is a recognized and listed Category 2a carcinogen.
Processed meat is Category 1
and

High-Cholesterol is the recognized #1 cause of heart disease

tp4tissue · « **Reply #24 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:37:25 »

Quote from: nugglets on Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:27:13

My 2yo niece loves sashimi.

I win, I guess.

You're also comparing something sweet to the meat.

How about giving a child a handful of raw brussel sprouts? If they don't chew it, all plants taste like ****. Same logic you're using =)

Hahaha.. this is the gray area..

Your niece does not like sashimi, she probably eats it with soy sauce.. it's fairly difficult to get children to eat fish without alot of flavor masking.

Keep in mind also, that we DO have taste receptors for RICE, if you're eating sashimi with rice, Your niece Could potentially be responding to the Rice, which Humans DO indeed have a preference for.

So you've made a misattribution error.

With regards to Brussel sprouts, you're going to be able to find alot of plants that are mostly bitter. This is indeed a problem for children as well.

However, while we CAN find some plants that taste good to the MAJORITY of all young children.

We CAN NOT find ANY raw meat that taste good to young humans.

Kavik · « **Reply #25 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 18:54:26 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:45:41

Quote from: Kavik on Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:39:25
I usually pan fry chicken in butter (cow milk fat) with salt (mineral that extracts native juices of the meat). Tastes pretty good to me. Ok, I also add pepper, which is a plant, but it's not necessary.

Variations exist, but even under your lower complexity processing, High heat Cooking itself creates odors and particles that naturally exist in UNPROCESSED plants.

Lol, wut? Then meat does taste good under your theory, and who's to say that those tastes belong to plants and not meat? Regardless, I've never eaten a vegetable that tastes like chicken or butter, so I disagree there.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #26 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 22:31:16 »

Quote from: Kavik on Tue, 23 January 2018, 18:54:26

Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:45:41
Quote from: Kavik on Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:39:25
I usually pan fry chicken in butter (cow milk fat) with salt (mineral that extracts native juices of the meat). Tastes pretty good to me. Ok, I also add pepper, which is a plant, but it's not necessary.

Variations exist, but even under your lower complexity processing, High heat Cooking itself creates odors and particles that naturally exist in UNPROCESSED plants.

Lol, wut? Then meat does taste good under your theory, and who's to say that those tastes belong to plants and not meat? Regardless, I've never eaten a vegetable that tastes like chicken or butter, so I disagree there.

You've never eaten one, does not mean one does not exist.

There is an entire culinary tradition within asia FOR vegetarian chicken and duck, which comprises of rolled tofu skin / celery/ and dried mushrooms which together mimic chicken and duck..

Just as before you are speaking from your own narrow set of experiences.

There's nothing wrong in letting personal experience point the way.

But today's research irrevocably connect Meat consumption TO diabetes/ heart disease/ cancer/ stroke

This is accepted by the scientific community at large, and has already achieved significant social momentum.

It has done this because there is FACT behind it..

Kavik, you're trying to win an argument against me, while I am merely trying to get you to look at the latest research.

Modern cuisine is the King of Hotdogs/ Burgers/ and Steak.

Modern Medicine is the King of Heartdisease/ Cancer/ and Diabetes..

Kavik · « **Reply #27 on:** Tue, 23 January 2018, 22:59:55 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 23 January 2018, 22:31:16

Quote from: Kavik on Tue, 23 January 2018, 18:54:26
Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:45:41
Quote from: Kavik on Tue, 23 January 2018, 10:39:25
I usually pan fry chicken in butter (cow milk fat) with salt (mineral that extracts native juices of the meat). Tastes pretty good to me. Ok, I also add pepper, which is a plant, but it's not necessary.

Variations exist, but even under your lower complexity processing, High heat Cooking itself creates odors and particles that naturally exist in UNPROCESSED plants.

Lol, wut? Then meat does taste good under your theory, and who's to say that those tastes belong to plants and not meat? Regardless, I've never eaten a vegetable that tastes like chicken or butter, so I disagree there.

You've never eaten one, does not mean one does not exist.

There is an entire culinary tradition within asia FOR vegetarian chicken and duck, which comprises of rolled tofu skin / celery/ and dried mushrooms which together mimic chicken and duck..

Just as before you are speaking from your own narrow set of experiences.

There's nothing wrong in letting personal experience point the way.

But today's research irrevocably connect Meat consumption TO diabetes/ heart disease/ cancer/ stroke

This is accepted by the scientific community at large, and has already achieved significant social momentum.

It has done this because there is FACT behind it..

Kavik, you're trying to win an argument against me, while I am merely trying to get you to look at the latest research.

Modern cuisine is the King of Hotdogs/ Burgers/ and Steak.

Modern Medicine is the King of Heartdisease/ Cancer/ and Diabetes..

I'm not disputing your claims of heart disease and such (although links to scholarly articles where I could find this research would be appreciated). I'm just pointing out that your premise of meat's supposed lack of flavor doesn't hold up; it's separate from your other claims. Btw, it's just semantics, but you did say the tofu mimics the chicken, not the other way around

)

chyros · « **Reply #28 on:** Wed, 24 January 2018, 00:17:53 »

For me it's the exact opposite. I can only eat veg if it's made accessible with some meat. Veg is largely disgusting.

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Author Topic: Meat itself.. (Read 3720 times)