Pain in my finger since using a mechanical keyboard.

[Dinkydau]

I purchased a keyboard with cherry MX brown switches to replace a cheap logitech keyboard that I had used for 9 years because I wanted something better. I put effort into finding keyboards with different types of switches in stores to try them and I liked cherry MX brown best.

Now I've been using it for a month and I think the keyboard is actually bad for my fingers, especially my right index finger. I still like how light it is to type on and the subtle tactile bump of the switches that I liked so much in the stores but now I think the rubber in my previous keyboard is very important after all because it acts as a cushion that makes the impact softer when I slam the keys. Since the first day I've had this keyboard I've been trying to unlearn the slamming of keys. That's why I bought the keyboard. I wanted lighter typing to make it easier for my fingers. I thought I was doing pretty well, but apparently it's not good enough.

I have used google to find clarifications and solutions but I still have questions.

1. Is there consensus among people knowledgeable about keyboards that bottoming out keys on a mechanical keyboard is bad for your fingers? Some people say so, others deny it, but there may be clueless people among them and I don't know who to believe, even if I have no other possible cause for the pain in my fingers.

2. Are there specic techniques of typing that should be practiced to use a mechanical keyboard properly? The way I'm typing is just how I taught myself to do it. I'm using my right index finger to press the space bar instead of my thumbs, as is apparently the way it "should" be done. If so, isn't it a bit strange that what are said to be the best keyboards require so much effort to use properly? With cheap keyboards it doesn't seem to matter much. Or could it be that this switch type is not the right one for me after all? I chose them based on a few minutes of typing in stores.

3. Can O-rings be used to get the best of both worlds? A mechanical keyboard with the softer impact typical for rubber dome keyboards?

[tp4tissue]

You can run into a wall..  really fast, really hard and DIE..   Or you can run into a wall lightly and feel nothing..


Lighten up your keypresses,  don't hold at the end. the  Effort behind the key stroke should end before the bottom of the key-travel (4mm) , but the momentum you've exerted at the BEGINNING of the keystroke should be enough to carry you to the bottom.


But do not make the mistake of NOT bottoming out,  that is bad, and will impact your typing speed negatively.

Check out my typing speed guide in my signature below for more typing related speed tips.

[Puddsy]

Try either switching to linear switches or using a wrist rest. Make sure you're sitting properly.

I haven't seen too many people complain about this type of thing before, that's just what helped me.

[dubious]

1. yes, mostly.

2. touch typing, but it is not required. Also, proper home-row typing. Sounds like you are overusing your index finger if you are pushing the spacebar with it. This, coupled with constantly bottoming out (mushy browns) is basically death by a thousand cuts.

3. yes, I personally like MX Browns muuuuch better with o-rings. If you want to go one step farther you can upgrade the spring, or try some other tactile switches with higher spring rates.

[tp4tissue]

1. yes, mostly.

2. touch typing, but it is not required. Also, proper home-row typing. Sounds like you are overusing your index finger if you are pushing the spacebar with it. This, coupled with constantly bottoming out (mushy browns) is basically death by a thousand cuts.

3. yes, I personally like MX Browns muuuuch better with o-rings. If you want to go one step farther you can upgrade the spring, or try some other tactile switches with higher spring rates.

Keep in mind.. the correct home row should be  awefjio;  and  NOT asdfjkl;

your fingers naturally rests upon awefjio; when relaxed.

[opensecret]

It's possible that the mech board isn't good for you, though, as others have replied, o-rings are definitely worth a shot: they soften the landing as well as reduce noise. I've put o-rings on every board with Cherry switches I've owned (though only on the alpha and punctuation keys; I don't see a need on the other keys).  O-rings are cheap and very easy to install.  I have a board with o-ringed browns, and it's very comfortable, but it's also possible that a board with higher actuation force would be better because you wouldn't slam as hard at bottom.   You might also like a Topre board because they feel somewhat like rubber domes, but they're pricey.

I don't know if anyone really knows the answer to your first two questions.  I mostly bottom out, at least in part because I learned to type roughly 60 years ago on manual typewriters when keyboards were really mechanical, and there was no such thing as not bottoming out.  The good news is that in the years since, I've done a lot of typing (I'm a writer), with a lot of bottoming out, and my fingers are doing just fine. 

The whole keyboard thing is very subjective.  You see lots of strong opinions on this board, but the only right keyboard for you is the one that feels good and works for you.  For some people, that's a rubber dome.

[tp4tissue]

It's possible that the mech board isn't good for you, though, as others have replied, o-rings are definitely worth a shot: they soften the landing as well as reduce noise. I've put o-rings on every board with Cherry switches I've owned (though only on the alpha and punctuation keys; I don't see a need on the other keys).  O-rings are cheap and very easy to install.  I have a board with o-ringed browns, and it's very comfortable, but it's also possible that a board with higher actuation force would be better because you wouldn't slam as hard at bottom.   You might also like a Topre board because they feel somewhat like rubber domes, but they're pricey.

I don't know if anyone really knows the answer to your first two questions.  I mostly bottom out, at least in part because I learned to type roughly 60 years ago on manual typewriters when keyboards were really mechanical, and there was no such thing as not bottoming out.  The good news is that in the years since, I've done a lot of typing (I'm a writer), with a lot of bottoming out, and my fingers are doing just fine. 

The whole keyboard thing is very subjective.  You see lots of strong opinions on this board, but the only right keyboard for you is the one that feels good and works for you.  For some people, that's a rubber dome.

whether the keyboard is cherry, topre, or membrane rubberdome, is not the cause of keyboarding injuries.

IN general, pressing too hard and holding the key at the bottom (even slightly, fractions of a second) is the cause of finger troubles.

Wrist troubles happen when you rotate the wrist deeply inward and type for a long time.. this will likely happen on all flat single piece keyboards, so there's really no way to fix it, besides getting a split keyboard and tenting that..


and for carpel tunnel,  this is usually the combination of inward rotation ONTOP of resting the wrist too low beneath the keyboard. what happens here, is that you're using the forearm to create the force necessary to turn the wrist downwards against the keys..

whereas in proper keyboarding technique, one should be typing mostly against their tricep muscle ontop of using the weight of one's arms as they hang.

[Dinkydau]

Topre is something that I would have liked to try but it's impossible to find just like cherry MX clear and buckling springs even though many people seem to like those.

I will read that guide on fast typing, try to use my right thumb for the spacebar and experiment with using something to let my wrists rest on and not holding the keys down.

[Puddsy]

Topre is something that I would have liked to try but it's impossible to find just like cherry MX clear and buckling springs even though many people seem to like those.

I will read that guide on fast typing, try to use my right thumb for the spacebar and experiment with using something to let my wrists rest on and not holding the keys down.

Topre is easy to find, just expensive.

[Kavik]

Although I don't have experience with MX browns outside of a switch tester, I have used o-rings on MX Blues and MX Reds. They definitely soften the bottom-out and add a rubbery, squishy feel. I don't like how it affects blues, but I like it on reds all right. It also reduces the key travel, so that could also reduce the strain on your fingers. It's a good thing to try before switching boards because they only cost $5-15.

If you don't have a wrist rest, you can try setting a thick notebook in front of your keyboard in the meantime. I've noticed that I do that inadvertently at work sometimes because I think it's comfortable.

I do think learning to use your thumbs for the space bar would benefit you also. It is a bit of an odd angle to use the index finger on it.

[Dinkydau]

Or much cheaper:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120Pcs-White-Rubber-O-Ring-Dampers-Keycap-Mechanical-keyboard-For-Cherry-MX-/301598480127?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4638ab96ff

Topre is easy to find, just expensive.

Where can I try one in the Netherlands?

[Puddsy]

Topre is easy to find, just expensive.

Where can I try one in the Netherlands?

oh

this changes things

ISO topre is hard to find, you'll have better luck with JIS

best bet is japanese ebay or the classifieds to buy one

[happylacquer]

No MX is heavy enough for my liking, i'd only consider using topre or buckling spring.

[klennkellon]

A simple and cheap option is to buy some softer o-rings to help soften the blow of bottoming out as it can be fatiguing. You can get some basic ones on eBay from China for like 99 cents or get the even softer ones from WASD.

You may also want to try typing more lightly. An underrated feature of almost all mechanical switches is that they actuate before bottoming out so you don't always have to hammer down the keys like you do on a rubber dome. MX Browns are also quite light so you can get away with typing very lightly on them.

[chyros]

Or much cheaper:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120Pcs-White-Rubber-O-Ring-Dampers-Keycap-Mechanical-keyboard-For-Cherry-MX-/301598480127?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4638ab96ff

Topre is easy to find, just expensive.

Where can I try one in the Netherlands?

I can give you a tour around my place .

[killyou]

Years ago I used to have a very tall rubber dome keyboard and it was painful for my hands as well. I was a kid back then and I didn't know any better so I just endured the pain and after some time I got used to it and it went away. I think you might not be used to how tall mechanical keyboards are in comparison to other keyboards nowadays. If I were you I'd try using o-rings and a wrist rest to see if there is any improvement. Also try not to keep the keys pressed down.

[orpheo]

I think that you exert too much tensions on your index muscles when you type the space bar on it (and probably a lot of other keys too). This is typical case of wrong typing leading to injuries.

It's not just about bottoming out, I have browns and they are light as ****. Maybe you had really bad rubber domes that led you to hammer it like crazy, but still..

And yes, you will hurt your bones by bottoming out on plate steel keyboards. Alu is a Lil better, the most comfort is the PCB mount.

[davkol]

Topre is easy to find, just expensive.

Where can I try one in the Netherlands?

Keyboard meetups (I believe Cooler Master is hosting one these days).

You can buy a realforce from The Keyboard Company (British, still in EU AFAIK). Maybe a leopold from one of the new vendors (mykeyboard.eu I think?). Old-stock novatouch could still exist somewhere.

Or just ask around Deskthority.

[tp4tissue]

I don't understand why you guys are pushing him to get yet another keyboard,  when the keyboard isn't the cause of his alleged finger pain.

The op is pressing the keys too hard.. 

[dubious]

"I'm using my right index finger to press the space bar instead of my thumbs, as is apparently the way it "should" be done. "

I don't think this is how you are supposed to type.

[Prince Valiant]

"I'm using my right index finger to press the space bar instead of my thumbs, as is apparently the way it "should" be done. "

I don't think this is how you are supposed to type.

It sounds like the cause of most of their index finger pain. I always use my thumbs to hit space.

[Dinkydau]

Very likely. Upon closer inspection it seems to be the spacebar that is the problem mostly. It feels more tiring to press than other keys, also to my other fingers. My keyboard is a Ducky One if that matters. I've ordered some of those cheap O-rings so I will try them and see if they make a difference. I'm also typing a lot slower now because I'm trying to learn to use my right thumb to press space so it will take a while to find out how well this works.

I'm still having this thought:

isn't it a bit strange that what are said to be the best keyboards require so much effort to use properly? With cheap keyboards it doesn't seem to matter much.

I never had this problem before and I used the worst keyboards on the market.

[dubious]

The majority of cheap keyboards have rubber domes, which soften the landing when you bottom out the key. Stock mechanical switches do not have these, but hopefully those rings will help.

As others have said though, how a keyboard feels is mostly subjective.

[xtrafrood]

If you're handy with a soldering iron you could de-solder some of the switches and add lighter switches. Make a variable weight MX board of sorts for cheap.

[zpcomstock17]

I agree, it's wrong typing habits that's coming back to haunt him.
Practice good typing habits or get an ergonomic keyboard.

[Encabulator]

I purchased a keyboard with cherry MX brown switches to replace a cheap logitech keyboard that I had used for 9 years because I wanted something better. I put effort into finding keyboards with different types of switches in stores to try them and I liked cherry MX brown best.

Now I've been using it for a month and I think the keyboard is actually bad for my fingers, especially my right index finger. I still like how light it is to type on and the subtle tactile bump of the switches that I liked so much in the stores but now I think the rubber in my previous keyboard is very important after all because it acts as a cushion that makes the impact softer when I slam the keys. Since the first day I've had this keyboard I've been trying to unlearn the slamming of keys. That's why I bought the keyboard. I wanted lighter typing to make it easier for my fingers. I thought I was doing pretty well, but apparently it's not good enough.

I have used google to find clarifications and solutions but I still have questions.

1. Is there consensus among people knowledgeable about keyboards that bottoming out keys on a mechanical keyboard is bad for your fingers? Some people say so, others deny it, but there may be clueless people among them and I don't know who to believe, even if I have no other possible cause for the pain in my fingers.

2. Are there specic techniques of typing that should be practiced to use a mechanical keyboard properly? The way I'm typing is just how I taught myself to do it. I'm using my right index finger to press the space bar instead of my thumbs, as is apparently the way it "should" be done. If so, isn't it a bit strange that what are said to be the best keyboards require so much effort to use properly? With cheap keyboards it doesn't seem to matter much. Or could it be that this switch type is not the right one for me after all? I chose them based on a few minutes of typing in stores.

3. Can O-rings be used to get the best of both worlds? A mechanical keyboard with the softer impact typical for rubber dome keyboards?

Make sure to have your wrists st a comfortable angle. Don't stretch your index finger too far to keys that weren't designed for it to type.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dinkydau]

Yes, my wrists are always comfortable. I have arm supports on my chair that I use.

Learning to use my right thumb for the spacebar was easier than I thought it would be. I think I'm back to my normal speed again now. The pain in my index finger is slowly disappearing and almost gone by now.

After a day I felt like the problem was simply displaced because I started to feel the same pain appearing in my thumb. I took off my spacebar and placed it back rotated by 180°. I think that has helped a little. Maybe it's enough to use O-rings just on the spacebar once they arrive because apparently only that one key is the problem.

[digi]

You can run into a wall..  really fast, really hard and DIE..   Or you can run into a wall lightly and feel nothing..


Lighten up your keypresses,  don't hold at the end. the  Effort behind the key stroke should end before the bottom of the key-travel (4mm) , but the momentum you've exerted at the BEGINNING of the keystroke should be enough to carry you to the bottom.


But do not make the mistake of NOT bottoming out,  that is bad, and will impact your typing speed negatively.

Check out my typing speed guide in my signature below for more typing related speed tips.

LOLLLLLL

[Dinkydau]

I tried the O-rings and removed them about 2 weeks later because I really disliked how they felt on most of the keys. I left O-rings under the spacebar because they do help to absorb the fierce impact that's unlike the rest of the keys. Also using my thumb instead, and rotating the spacebar by 180° accordingly, has proved to be a good idea in the long run.

I visited the keyboard meetup. Thanks davkol for suggesting this. It was very interesting. There can't be a better way to try various different keyboards and switch types.

[Entropia]

Reds and browns are too light and its too easy to bottom out on them. Try blacks. A heavy linear switch doesn't mean that it's more tyring or that it will hurt your fingers. On the contrary, at least for me, it's far more comfortable.

[SBJ]

Reds and browns are too light and its too easy to bottom out on them. Try blacks. A heavy linear switch doesn't mean that it's more tyring or that it will hurt your fingers. On the contrary, at least for me, it's far more comfortable.

I agree with this.
I mostly use heavier switches now and my typing accuracy as actually gone up since.

[Targa-TV]

Reds and browns are too light and its too easy to bottom out on them. Try blacks. A heavy linear switch doesn't mean that it's more tyring or that it will hurt your fingers.

It depends on how light/heavy is your typing. For me blacks on alphas results in fingers ache, reds are much better since I can barely touch them and "get away with it."

[Targa-TV]

2. Are there specic techniques of typing that should be practiced to use a mechanical keyboard properly? The way I'm typing is just how I taught myself to do it. I'm using my right index finger to press the space bar instead of my thumbs, as is apparently the way it "should" be done.

You taught yourself how to type and you think that's how it "should" be done? Um... what? Have you googled "proper/correct/touch typing" recently? Because I think you would benefit from that.

If so, isn't it a bit strange that what are said to be the best keyboards require so much effort to use properly? With cheap keyboards it doesn't seem to matter much.

Er what.

Or could it be that this switch type is not the right one for me after all? I chose them based on a few minutes of typing in stores.

Pressing switches on a tester for a few minutes and hours-long typing sessions are two very different things yeah, I learned that the hard way too.
Keep in mind that you can always sell/trade your mkb or swap switches if you still don't like them after you've learn to type properly.

[Bucake]

typing on the IBM XT, i don't think the spacebar was meant to be pressed with your index finger