Playing with switches…
So I got some switches in yesterday in anticipation of building a new 75%, and since I built my Filco, a lot of new switches have come out, some almost exactly what I was asking for so I needed to test some before buying. I also decided that since I had them, let's play mix-n-match and see what we get. First I'll go over my thoughts on the switches, compared to the switches I have, and then dive into the mashups.
I got:
Kailh Bronze Speed Switches
Kailh Gold Speed Switches
Gateron Blues
Aristotle Blues
For reference, I also have:
Outemu Blues, Cherry Blacks, Reds, Browns, Ergo Clears, and Blues from an old Razer, the binned ones, most of which were converted to Jailhouse Blues.
BEWARE:
Just a quick note, apparently there is some confusion on the internet (surprise).
Apparently Bronze, Copper and Gold are all being interchanged, so be sure what you are getting before you buy. Typically Bronze will get you Bronze, but but ordering Gold is like ordering a mystery switch.
So on to the show…
Aristotle – The stem design is a bit better/more stable than other Blues due to how the stem has more contact surface with the housing, without effecting the click mechanism, so they should bind and twist less. The tactility on these rivals Outemus, however the noise is more subdued. However, they legs have hooks at the bottom and I think these led to problems when I put them in the Gaterons.
Gateron Blue – Supposed to be slightly smoother than newer Cherry Blues or the same as older Cherry Blues, I’d agree with that.
My thoughts on both of these, if you want super tactile blues, get Outemus. They are easy to get, and cheap. I know some people poo poo them, but I think a lot of that is them not wanting to admit that one of the cheapest switches on the market may be better than their more expensive ones.
Speed Series
Kailh Gold (actually a dark burgundy)
My first (out of the keyboard) impression was that they seemed kind of nice, but the more I played with it outside a keyboard the less I liked them, especially when side by side with the Bronze. The tactile sensation is similar to a short throw ergo clear/clear up until trigger with the noise of a blue, however, once past the trigger point, spring pressure feels like it falls off a cliff. Spring pressure drops dramatically at actuation and stays that way until you bottom out. It’s just an odd feeling. Even more odd, they feel more tactile on release than on press. On a keyboard however they feel entirely different, in fact shockingly so.
Based on specs and what I said you would get the impression that if you like Browns, or Clears, and want a shorter stroke with a bit more tactility (I.E. Jailhouse Blues), that these might be perfect for you but in an actual keyboard, they feel like a like a sticky linear.
I suspect that the actuation point is so high that there’s just no room for tactility remaining or what little there is gets lost due to the spring fallover. The switch barely gets moving before it hits the actuation point and then the spring pressure falls and never recovers. This was not at all what I expected and was extremely disappointing. Maybe a spring change helps, we will see later.
Update:
Responding below made me realize what these feel like. A nice rubber dome. I've had a couple rubber dome keyboards over the years that tried to add a bit of tactile feel and this is about what they were like.
Update 2: I forgot noise, these are as quiet as red or browns, nearly silent.
Kailh Bronze (looks more like… poop).
This uses a separate leaf or beam spring for tactile feel and noise. The stem is actually a linear slider like a red, all tactile feel is due to the spring in back. This will not fit into other housings without removing the spring trigger which sticks out the back, but if you do, it would be a normal red. Spring pressure ramps up before bottoming out, however it’s not really obvious when installed on a keyboard. Just like the noise, these feel very crisp. Warning, they are every bit as loud as blues.
I really like the feel, but not so sure about the hysteresis, why they did this I have no idea. The actuation point is at 1.1, but the click is at 1.3 or 1.4 (according to the manufacturer). However, unlike blues, the hysteresis doesn’t seem to bother me as much, it may be the distance, or the fact that it's at the same point in travel on up or down stroke. Another concern I have, is the noise, but at least it's a satisfying click.
These will probably be what go in my next keyboard, they feel like Jailhouse Blues, only crisper and louder. If I can find a way to quiet them, that would be nice, though I'm not holding out much hope. I completely forgot other companies are making speed switches too, so I'll need to research them as well. Barring finding something better, I'll probably use these and if I get annoyed by the sound (and I probably will), I'll probably Jailhouse some Outemu Blues or if I feel masochistic Jailhoused Gatistotles with Zealencios, but I would rather avoid that, not just for the cost (I'll spend it if I have to), but mostly the risk of failure. I only ordered 3, but at this point all of my Gaterons are destroyed. More on this below.
Cross breeds, the fun stuff.
A word about Kailh Speed Switches.
Based on my testing, it appears the short throw is due to contact mechanism, not the slider mechanism. This means you can’t simply swap the Speed stems into other housings and and make short throw Gaterons or use Gateron housings in order to instal Zealencios. It does however mean you could possibly install Cherry Silent stems into the Speed Switch housings. Unfortunately, these housings are not really compatible with switch top removable upper plates, they fit, but you can’t take the tops off, so plan on sockets if you want to work on them.
Note: My test method was crude as I wasn’t really expecting to do this, so take any throw measurements with a grain of salt.
Gateron Blue/Speed housing - Installing Gateron blue into the Kailh Speed Switch housing (gold in this case) resulted in a VERY short throw linear switch, no click, no tactile feel. Throw was about 1mm. Basically I created a Kailh Silver, but why not just buy Silvers. I would imagine these would be awesome for gamers, but do some testing before you end up buying two batches of switches in hopes of doing this, or again, just buy silvers.
Bronze stem/Gateron housing* – Must use the Gateron spring or it binds a bit (Kailh springs are a smaller diameter and rub the spring holder in the bottom). This results in an almost Cherry brown feel. Kind of gritty and mushy. It almost feels more tactile on the reset than on pressing, which is a bit odd. Used with a Zealencio you could make very silent, brown switches. However, they would not be cheap and you may as well just use Gateron browns.
*Why do this? It would allow switch top removal on some plates designed for it, Kailh (and Outemu ) use a different locking system that isn’t compatible with all plates. They fit, they just don't allow for switch top removal while installed on a plate, even one cut for switch top removal. It wold also allow for the use of Zealencios. However, I only tested it because I had them.
Gatistotle – VERY fickle and SUPER easy to damage. You end up with an Outemu in a different housing is all. Yes, you could use these to make some really neat Jailhouse Zealencio Gatitsotle Blues, but talk about one expensive switch, nearly $2 per switch with Jspacers (yes, you can jailhouse Aristotles), if you don’t damage any. This is more than double any other switch would cost and in some cases more than four times as much.
I broke the housing tabs off the Aristotle opening it (old and poor quality housings) and then I damaged two Gaterons by the time I had assembled my first functional Gatistotle, which by the way is a pain in the neck. The legs on the Aristotle snag the Gateron contacts. I have said in the past that swapping stems this could damage the contacts of the housing under long term use, what I didn’t anticipate doing so just assembling them, that risk is still there. After doing all of this testing, all 3 Gaterons I bought are dead (I get the idea they are not that durable).
I did later look at some tutorials on making Gatitistotles and none of them seemed to have the problems I did so I’m not sure what happened here. Were they an older or newer Gateron? Something I did? I hope someone can shed light on this because the only way I even got one working was to use an X-Acto knife to push the contacts out of the way of the legs, then fight to get the top installed without it coming out before I snapped it in place.
Honestly the only reason I can see doing this is if you want the Zealencios, If you aren’t going to use those, start with Outemus or buy Kailh Bronze, both offer that tactility without the cost or headache.
Golds with different springs.
I re-wrote the gold section above and got to thinking, maybe the springs are the problem, so I tried them with Cherry black, Outemu and Gateron springs to see if it helped.
Cherry Black springs did make the switch feel better, but but it still feels like a sticky linear only now with the tiniest shred of tactility.
Gateron springs actually made the falloff worse.
Outemu springs feel like the stock springs.
Notes about stem and spring swapping:
Other stems in Gaterons -
Don’t put Kailh stems in Gateron housings, it doesn’t work well with the switch mechanism inside and will most likely destroy it. Like the Gatistotles, the legs grab the switch mechanism and in this case, tries to pull it out of the housing. Placing a Cherry stem into the Gateron was the opposite, it worked fine, however it wasn’t as smooth. Outemu stems tried to bind up.
In Kailh Bronze housings. Kailh uses smaller springs which can bind in other housings, but larger springs work fine in Kailh housings.
Gateron blues have no tactility, and may not even function.
Outemus tems functioned normally,Blues were maybe a touch less tactile than in Outemus housings. Feel is good though.
Cherry Switches work fine as well.
