Mouse that tracks as good as the G400..

[Emospence]

But is lighter and better for a hybrid claw/palm grip?

Are there any?

[JPG]

But is lighter and better for a hybrid claw/palm grip?

Are there any?

Razer deathadder 2013. You're going to like it a lot.

[Quardah]

But is lighter and better for a hybrid claw/palm grip?

Are there any?

Ikari Laser Mouse. Best mouse i've ever had.
Don't go Razer, really.

[vun]

DA, DA2013 or IME 3.0 are probably your best bets for hybrid palm/claw.
Lachesis also has a fantastic shape for that grip, but afaik it's not commonly available anymore, and I don't think it's lighter than the G400 either.

[Emospence]

But is lighter and better for a hybrid claw/palm grip?

Are there any?

Ikari Laser Mouse. Best mouse i've ever had.
Don't go Razer, really.

I do dislike Razer as a brand, but this particular DA line of mice appear to have gotten (almost) universal acclaim!

How's the Zowie FK?

[Quardah]

But is lighter and better for a hybrid claw/palm grip?

Are there any?

Ikari Laser Mouse. Best mouse i've ever had.
Don't go Razer, really.

I do dislike Razer as a brand, but this particular DA line of mice appear to have gotten (almost) universal acclaim!

How's the Zowie FK?

Razer has a lot of fanboys. I agree they ain't so bad, but they really can't hold time.

My Deathadder weared out sonner than expected. Very sooner. It's good until the dormant failures shows up, then it's good for trash. Newer Razer cannot hold long since they moved the production from US to China. My best friend still has the first DeathAdder Model made in USA, still works perfect. He never had an issue with it. I got the model right next, made in China, a year after it's crappy to use. I didn't even use it for the entire year; i abused a Zalman gun mouse (****tiest mouse ever) for about 4 month until it became so crappy it had to be thrown away.

But they still costed the same price 2 years appart. (The DAs)

I guess cheaping out on the build cost/quality and shoot more into marketing is the deal these days. R.I.P. Razer for now being cheapass.

[mauri]

I've had or tested pretty much every mouse currently on the market and I started with a mx510. I haven't come across any "gaming" mouse that would track poorly, even if the whole "gaming" label is utter bull$hit marketing trick.

I've got a g400, steelseries ikari, intellimouse 1.1, deathadder, xai, kinzu (original and the newer pro edition) and a sensei sitting in my drawer while I'm using my zowie ec 2. And by no means are the said mice bad, on the contrary, they're all great mice but the zowie is my favourite.

I would characterize the way I hold a mouse as a some kind of crossing of claw/palm grip.

[Feign]

I use a Deathadder and would highly recommend it. Mine was made in China also and has worked without fault for 3 years of competitive gaming. Anecdotal evidence maybe, but it is generally considered a great mouse.

And i really dislike Razer's mantra - i needed a lot of convincing to buy a Razer product to begin with but i consider the Deathadder the exception to Razer's rule of poor quality, overpriced products.

[daerid]

Zowie FK

[tp4tissue]

You can lighten a g400 by swapping in an early version mx518 or mx510 top shell.

[Emospence]

Just impulse ordered a Zowie FK.

Lol.

[daerid]

Just impulse ordered a Zowie FK.

Lol.

Lemme know how you like it. I've had my eyes on one.

[Glenn315]

Let me know too! I'm been looking at other mice and the Zowie FK looks pretty good.

[Emospence]

Liking the shape so far, I feel like my hand has.. more space compared to previously with my G400!

Thumb buttons're a little stiff though.

[daerid]

I'm just over laser sensors, honestly. And the lack of required drivers for the FK is really appealing.

[vun]

I'm just over laser sensors, honestly. And the lack of required drivers for the FK is really appealing.

May I ask why? Because I don't really notice any difference between optical and laser during use, so I'm curios what about them that made you get "over" them.

[daerid]

Every laser mouse that I've used has felt ... the closest work I can think of is "brittle" in it's tracking. When I use my DA 2013 or my IE3.0 or G400, it just feels smoother for some reason.

I'm totally aware that it may be placebo effect/confirmation bias, but that's also OK with me

[vun]

Every laser mouse that I've used has felt ... the closest work I can think of is "brittle" in it's tracking. When I use my DA 2013 or my IE3.0 or G400, it just feels smoother for some reason.

I'm totally aware that it may be placebo effect/confirmation bias, but that's also OK with me

And that's totally fine, I can defo see the appeal of just ditching the flawed sensors and just go for the stuff you know works, but the problem is that most of the interesting mice use laser sensors, and the more interesting the mouse is the ****tier sensor it has.
Although I am getting somewhat tired of the complicated feature-laden mice as well, I suspect that when I get my DA2013 in a day or two I don't think it's going in the drawer anytime soon.

[Elrick]

Although I am getting somewhat tired of the complicated feature-laden mice as well, I suspect that when I get my DA2013 in a day or two I don't think it's going in the drawer anytime soon.

Okay vun, you need to do a thorough test feature on the DA 2013.  Say why and how the actual features on that rodent works so well compared to other mice.

Please mention the actuation and sound of the mouse switches, which I'm eager to find out.  Is it louder or 'quieter' (bad word) compared to Logitech's own G400, G500 and G700s.

[vun]

Although I am getting somewhat tired of the complicated feature-laden mice as well, I suspect that when I get my DA2013 in a day or two I don't think it's going in the drawer anytime soon.

Okay vun, you need to do a thorough test feature on the DA 2013.  Say why and how the actual features on that rodent works so well compared to other mice.

Please mention the actuation and sound of the mouse switches, which I'm eager to find out.  Is it louder or 'quieter' (bad word) compared to Logitech's own G400, G500 and G700s.

Will do, although I don't have the G500 and I returned the G700s a while back so I can't give very accurate comparisons there.

Although I can tell you why it works so well compared to other mice without trying it; the shape combined with a pretty much flawless sensor. Yes, shape varies from person to person, but the DA has a commonly liked shape and combines that with a reasonable price, at least the old one, and a good sensor. Newer one is a bit more expensive, but I figure it'll still have all the good traits of the old one but feel better, as the old one does feel a bit cheap and tacky.

[Elrick]

Newer one is a bit more expensive, but I figure it'll still have all the good traits of the old one but feel better, as the old one does feel a bit cheap and tacky.

Dammit vun, you've got me to go and buy one off PCCG here in Oz.  I've never owned a DA before hence it'll be fun to see if it is all that it's cracked up to be.  Just want to check why there are so many Razer Zealots out there.  Maybe join them with this latest purchase  . 

[vun]

Newer one is a bit more expensive, but I figure it'll still have all the good traits of the old one but feel better, as the old one does feel a bit cheap and tacky.

Dammit vun, you've got me to go and buy one off PCCG here in Oz.  I've never owned a DA before hence it'll be fun to see if it is all that it's cracked up to be.  Just want to check why there are so many Razer Zealots out there.  Maybe join them with this latest purchase  . 

The shape is nearly exactly the same as the IME 3.0, both mice are some of the most popular mice of all time and are still widely used by both amateurs and professionals, weirdly enough the MX518/G400 seems less popular with the professionals from what I've seen.
But yeah, that's why there's not much written about the DA and G400 in my mouse writeup as they are so simple; good sensor, popular shape, decent build quality and an affordable price is what's made these so popular, there's no secret sauce that makes them stand out.

edit:
Also I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a bit here; razer gets a lot of hate, and for good reason; their marketing is based on grade A bull****(1600 apm Krait!), they have poor QC and many of their products are built cheaply.
Their mice, however, are not worse than the rest of the market if you disregard their love affair with the old PTE, although they still use PTE in several mice but it seems like they've fixed a lot of the issues, mice are, for the major part of the market, all about shape, and in that regard Razer are pretty good as they offer a wide variety of shapes whereas most other mouse manufaturers bank on one or two. Zowie and SteelSeries pretty much only offer variations of a single shape, SS have a few odd ones out, but not really worth mentioning. Mionix and QPad pretty much just offer 2 different variations of the same shape.
Logitech are not doing all that well either since most of their gaming mice are based off the old MX shape, still used today in the G400 and G500, the G700 being a gaming variant of their office mice, which again seem to be based off the MX shape. The G600 offers a different shape, but it is still a right-handed palm grip mouse, the only variation Logitech offers is the now EOL G9x, G300 and G100, and I'm not sure the G300 is still in production either.

I should probably move some of what I've written here to my thread, eh, I'll see if I cba.

[Emospence]

Although I am getting somewhat tired of the complicated feature-laden mice as well, I suspect that when I get my DA2013 in a day or two I don't think it's going in the drawer anytime soon.

Okay vun, you need to do a thorough test feature on the DA 2013.  Say why and how the actual features on that rodent works so well compared to other mice.

Please mention the actuation and sound of the mouse switches, which I'm eager to find out.  Is it louder or 'quieter' (bad word) compared to Logitech's own G400, G500 and G700s.

Sounds so demanding, rofl

[Emospence]

So after spending some time with the Zowie, it's feeling a tad small.. What would be a good in-between between this and the G400? DA 2013?

[vun]

So after spending some time with the Zowie, it's feeling a tad small.. What would be a good in-between between this and the G400? DA 2013?

Either DA or something like the SS Sensei I guess.

[SNF]

I really tried to like my g400 but its just so big and heavy compared to my WMO.

Other than the size and weight, the mouse is great.

I got a good deal on it so can't complain 

[Elrick]

I've paid for a Roccat Kone Pure Optical ROC-11-710 Gaming Mouse.

As soon as it arrives I'll post a brief intro to it.  I'm starting to become a real Roccat fan now.  They seem to make a real quality product, compared to everyone else.  Just curious to see what other mice in their arsenal is worth the money.  As usual I won't pull any punches on how I feel about a product, regardless of who makes it.

[Elrick]

I really tried to like my g400 but its just so big and heavy compared to my WMO.

Other than the size and weight, the mouse is great.

I noticed some people here really don't like heavy mice, because I suspect you're use to having a lighter rodent on your mat.  Hence I can see why you'll like something that doesn't need any effort to push around.

I'm the opposite, because I always liked heavy items like keyboards and rodents because if I don't feel the weight it's not there.  That is why heavier the item, the more glorious it is to throw it around.  Maybe because I'm not that small in stature I need bear-like proof products, in my possession.

[microsoft windows]

The Microsoft mouse is vastly superior to all other computer mice. I would recommend it wholeheartedly!

[ctbear]

Since the OP specifically asked about tracking...
If you like Logitech's tracking / pointer acceleration, you probably will like the Sensei or Kana from Steelseries. They are not the same but for me it was an easy transition back and forth.
A lot of people suggest Razer mouses (which are fine by themselves), but their tracking acceleration is a lot different than Logitech's.

[Pacifist]

Since the OP specifically asked about tracking...
If you like Logitech's tracking / pointer acceleration, you probably will like the Sensei or Kana from Steelseries. They are not the same but for me it was an easy transition back and forth.
A lot of people suggest Razer mouses (which are fine by themselves), but their tracking acceleration is a lot different than Logitech's.

Steelseries mice have imperfect sensors

[ctbear]

Since the OP specifically asked about tracking...
If you like Logitech's tracking / pointer acceleration, you probably will like the Sensei or Kana from Steelseries. They are not the same but for me it was an easy transition back and forth.
A lot of people suggest Razer mouses (which are fine by themselves), but their tracking acceleration is a lot different than Logitech's.

Steelseries mice have imperfect sensors

Perfect or not I was merely suggesting that they feel closer to Logitechs compared to Razers. Not sure what you meant by imperfect sensor though?

[Elrick]

Steelseries mice have imperfect sensors

Perfect or not I was merely suggesting that they feel closer to Logitechs compared to Razers. Not sure what you meant by imperfect sensor though?

Why not compare them to the Zowie's?  I think their worth a look like some others here on Geekhack.

[Skull_Angel]

Since the OP specifically asked about tracking...
If you like Logitech's tracking / pointer acceleration, you probably will like the Sensei or Kana from Steelseries. They are not the same but for me it was an easy transition back and forth.
A lot of people suggest Razer mouses (which are fine by themselves), but their tracking acceleration is a lot different than Logitech's.

The G400 should not have hardware acceleration like most of their other mice offerings do, being an optical mouse with the ADNS-3090 (iirc). I believe the G100 also has this sensor as well as the newer G400s, Zowie mice, Roccat Savu and Kone Pure optical, Razer Deathadder 2013 (I don't remember what earlier models use) and a few others.