Author Topic: Towards an ErdoDox keycap set with legends  (Read 3489 times)

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Offline trauring

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Towards an ErdoDox keycap set with legends
« on: Wed, 22 April 2015, 12:51:09 »
I've long wondered why there has never been a set of keys for the ErgoDox that have legends. Without getting into the argument for blank keycaps, some people strongly prefer legends on their keys. It seems that usually the keycaps available for the Ergodox are either a completely blank set, or a set up blank modifiers that can be added to keycaps of the letter and number keys.

Of course I understand the issue of customization. Almost every ErgoDox out there has a different custom layout. Selling a set of keycaps carved in stone (so to speak) is limiting to many. That said, it seems that there are plenty of people who would want a set of keycaps ready to go.

I noticed squarefrog's thread on organizing a group of ErgoDox layouts to make it easier to figure out which keys are most commonly used (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55712.0) which is great. The result was the dataset at http://dox.codeslingers.co.uk/ which breaks down which keys are used for each non-1u keycap size (1.5u horizontal, 1.5u vertical and 2u vertical). The only problem with the data is that it doesn't break down the key usage by row, which can be important in designing key sets for some keycap families.

Some people might have noticed my attempt to get a set of keycaps with legends as part of the upcoming group buy led by matt3o for his SA Retro design (I saw it first on DA - so the discussion is there - http://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/it-is-coming-sa-retro-t10416-240.html). Part of the problem is that it is very difficult to get double-shot keys that are optimal for the ErgoDox, particularly for the vertical keys (of which there are 8 on the ErgoDox) – it seems the molds are set up to only for horizontal legends. Another problem is getting keys that match the correct row numbers (and in the case of SA Retro - the correct colors). These all limit your options when creating a set of keycaps with legends, because one cannot swap keys that are the wrong size, the wrong orientation, the wrong color, etc.

I think it would be a good idea to create a set of key legends for group buys that many people would like. I don't want to argue on the benefit of using blank keycaps. If you want blank keycaps on your ErgoDox, you have plenty of options. I also think it's a waste of time to argue that it's impossible to come up with a keycap set for ErgoDox that has legends. 99.999% of people who use keyboards don't have any customization ability, and they're okay with that. Some people want the ErgoDox because they can build it themselves, because it's split, etc. That doesn't mean they need blank keys so their keyboard is infinitely customizable. Some people just like printed keys. I see this set as a Modifier Set that would be an add on to a full Ergodox set (that has legends on letter and numbers, but blank modifiers) or as an alternative to a blank modifier set.

As a starting point, below is my proposed ErgoDox Modifier Set for the SA Retro GB. As far as I know, this will not be part of SA Retro, but it's still useful for a starting point. Some of the issues in this set are due to SA Retro's use of three colors. A set with a single color, or at least a single color for modifiers, would allow for a few of these keys to be removed.

98173-0

Some notes on the layout:

- I was told by matt3o that legends cannot be rotated for vertical keys, except for the Return key for which there is a vertical mold. This is obviously for double-shot which in general I assume is desirable.
- I like the idea of media keys in the middle modifiers, although without properly rotated legends, this might be a bit awkward. I added a set of 1u media keys that can be used on the bottom row as well.
- Because of the three colors, some of these keys are duplicated for purposes of keeping the color scheme intact. Without so many colors, some of these keys could be eliminated (and replaced by different options).
- I don't have a problem with sideways legends for the large modifiers, but not everything works so well (such as the { [ and } ] keys).
- I didn't have a complete list of what legends were available. I don't know if there is something appropriate for layer switching, but I assumed there was not. Instead I added in Program and Fn and assumed that users would buy the full ErgoDox set (which has blanks for all the modifiers) and could use blanks for keys that they want for layer switching.
- I have arrow keys that can be along the bottom row, can be set up as 4-way by moving the ? / key into the bottom row, and moving the arrow key up to its place, and a separate R3 set that can be placed in one of the thumb clusters. The need for the brown R4 ? / is due to the different color of the letter key and the modifier key.
- The Commodore logo used in this set can be considered the same as Super as far as I'm concerned (i.e. in another set these could be labeled SUPER or use whatever icon is available to use).
- There are simple 1 and 2 keycaps in the left thumb cluster meant to allow switching quickly between layers 1 and 2.

Okay, so the goal is to come up with a consensus on a set of modifiers for future group buys. What do people think of the set above and the variations present (allowing many variations but obviously not all). Would you be interested in buying a set of these modifiers in a group buy in the future? Which keys are not present that you think are absolutely necessary for such a set?

Offline Data

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Re: Towards an ErdoDox keycap set with legends
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 22 April 2015, 14:41:07 »
It's gonna be really hard to reach any sort of consensus on this, such that it results in an affordable child kit for group buys.  If that's your "end game" I think you're going to find it's an uphill battle.

That's part of the attraction of the ErgoDox: You can put keys wherever you want and almost no 2 layouts are the same.  Of course, the reality is that the finite number of mod keys typically yields a measurable limit to the total number of possible layout combinations.  But the number is sufficiently large that it makes things difficult when you start talking key caps.  And don't even get me started on scuplted row profiles.   :confused:

Anyway... I applaud the effort.  I think you must already realize all this, so that would make you pretty damn brave to start a thread like this.   :D

Would it be helpful if I just posted my layout?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Towards an ErdoDox keycap set with legends
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 22 April 2015, 16:07:36 »
A full set of relegendables, perhaps...



But overall..  I'd think the majority of the kids already using the Egdx arn't n0vices..


Me personally_

I have zero need for legends.... I haven't used legends since my TKL days....

The Ergodox and I are one. I know precisely where each and every key is.

Offline ddot

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Re: Towards an ErdoDox keycap set with legends
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 22 April 2015, 17:14:03 »
To reiterate some of things data mentioned, the number of combinations for this could be near endless, sculpted profile just compounds the possibilities and multiple colours makes it harder to keep things symmetrical (if you care), but I too I applaud the effort and look forward to what can come of this.

Here’s my current layout.  The keys are from Granite round 2 and a few individual blanks direction from SP.  I should mention that I’m still tweaking and refining it over time.  (This has created its own set of problems as a tweak may require a key that was in a set that I didn’t buy and now I need to hunt down).

98192-0

A couple thoughts for you:

  • I’m quite enjoying having two shifts as part of the 2u thumb clusters.  Yours, like Granite, only offers one 2u shift.  Rather than buy two Granite Ergodoxs, I went with 2 green blanks from SP.
  • To me, the Caps Lock belongs on the 1u in the top left corner of the right hand.  (As I do some drafting and our notes in drafting are all in caps, I seem to be one of the few who actually uses the caps lock from time to time.)  At least with the Massdrop version of the Ergodox, the LEDs are designed to be under the 3 keys on the top left of the right keyboard.  Unfortunately opaque keys tend to limit how useful the LED is.  A 1u caps lock key with a windowed key would be awesome (if a particular configuration allows it).
  • I’m really enjoying the 1u delete and backspace as part of the lower inside corners of the thumb clusters.
  • I’m also really enjoying having Esc on the bottom row where it’s accessible to my thumb.