U|<ra1ne 2o22

[fohat.digs]

I really can't see how this can end with anything but disaster and humiliation for Russia, even if they level the entire nation of Ukraine into a radioactive desert and Putin remains alive for several more years.

The only positive outcome, it seems to me, would be to remove Putin (and what is left of his support system) as soon as possible and hope that whoever fills the vacuum grovels for forgiveness for Russia's aggression and begs for charity.

[tp4tissue]

C00 is one of the ways out.

But it's not necessarily the best option.

Given that there isn't a huge technological disparity between R| and the rest of the world.

They can go full hermit kingdom, and do well, because they still have significant natural resources that have existing infrastructure for extraction.

Online warriors say R| will go Ntcorea,  that's plainly not true, Ntco has so little industrial capacity / energy, they simply can not power up.

R| for the entirety of the last 50 years was merely SQUANDERING their resources and not investing properly at home.


Isolating R|  may force them to invest inwards..   

[fohat.digs]

hermit kingdom

But what about the large number of Russians who have seen the modern world?
My impression is that North Korea is more than a half-century behind and its population has never had a clue ....

[Leslieann]

On the ground there are opportunities for camouflage but in the air or on the surface of water you are completely exposed - plus facing destruction if your means of support is compromised.

There is almost no hiding places on the ground anymore, technology has made ground cover almost irrelevant.
It's really only a matter of how much it's worth ($$$) to drive you out versus collateral damage. You might hide from ground troops or a tank, but anything more advanced and you're not hiding from anything.

The only reason it appears to still work is because Russia's military is fighting a war with 60 years out of date equipment and tactics, they tried a WW2 blitzkrieg in an age of cell phones, drones (military and hobby) and easily transported shoulder fired anti-tank missiles.

Too bad wars are not still the way they were pre-technology, when it was just poking opponents with pointed objects.

As crazy as it seems, modern war is way nicer than it was in the past.

War is supposed to be brutal.
Without it being brutal you have no fear of it and therefore won't avoid it.

The Military Industrial Complex knows this and they drool over the idea of a bloodless war. How much did we spend on the cold war? How many drones have we bought on the basis that it "keeps our soldiers out of harms way"?


If you can find it, I highly recommend an original episode of Star Trek called A Taste of Armageddon.

[fohat.digs]

Too bad wars are not still the way they were pre-technology

War is supposed to be brutal.

an original episode of Star Trek called A Taste of Armageddon.

That was my point - when an up close and personal death on the battlefield was preferable to a "collateral" slow death by infection or some other ancient woe.

And yes, I was an avid Star Trek fan in 1967 when I was a freshman in high school.

[iri]

2) 🔥🔥🔥 out of 🔥🔥🔥: Russians elect their leader

They definitely don't now under Putin. But everything I've read strongly suggests that Russians were given a choice whom to elect after Yeltsin.

EDIT: either way, that's not actually the point I was making. I was mentioning what can happen to other countries if they elect a fascist.

If we ignore that 'fascist' thing for a second, UK is going towards where Russia is, at full steam. Tories are openly pocketing public money (even UR is doing this more secretively), the new bill allows police to criminalise a peaceful protest if it 'causes nuisance', the ruling party doesn't care about its own breaches of law, and any chance of the opposition to win a general election are zero.

[chyros]

2) 🔥🔥🔥 out of 🔥🔥🔥: Russians elect their leader

They definitely don't now under Putin. But everything I've read strongly suggests that Russians were given a choice whom to elect after Yeltsin.

EDIT: either way, that's not actually the point I was making. I was mentioning what can happen to other countries if they elect a fascist.

If we ignore that 'fascist' thing for a second, UK is going towards where Russia is, at full steam. Tories are openly pocketing public money (even UR is doing this more secretively), the new bill allows police to criminalise a peaceful protest if it 'causes nuisance', the ruling party doesn't care about its own breaches of law, and any chance of the opposition to win a general election are zero.

Maybe I misunderstood your point but how exactly is that not fascism? xD

[fohat.digs]

is that not fascism?

It is, and the US and UK both have sizeable sub-populations who have been brainwashed to believe that "nationalism" is in the best interest of "their nation"

2 things are necessary for that to happen :

(1) the public education system must fail to properly teach critical thinking and what was called "civics" (when I was in school), that is, an understanding of human society and its governance
(2) there must be a powerful mass media operation to misinform those who are susceptible to propaganda

[iri]

2) 🔥🔥🔥 out of 🔥🔥🔥: Russians elect their leader

They definitely don't now under Putin. But everything I've read strongly suggests that Russians were given a choice whom to elect after Yeltsin.

EDIT: either way, that's not actually the point I was making. I was mentioning what can happen to other countries if they elect a fascist.

If we ignore that 'fascist' thing for a second, UK is going towards where Russia is, at full steam. Tories are openly pocketing public money (even UR is doing this more secretively), the new bill allows police to criminalise a peaceful protest if it 'causes nuisance', the ruling party doesn't care about its own breaches of law, and any chance of the opposition to win a general election are zero.

Maybe I misunderstood your point but how exactly is that not fascism? xD

For starters, fascism requires a strong leader and not the one who hides from reporters in a fridge.

[chyros]

2) 🔥🔥🔥 out of 🔥🔥🔥: Russians elect their leader

They definitely don't now under Putin. But everything I've read strongly suggests that Russians were given a choice whom to elect after Yeltsin.

EDIT: either way, that's not actually the point I was making. I was mentioning what can happen to other countries if they elect a fascist.

If we ignore that 'fascist' thing for a second, UK is going towards where Russia is, at full steam. Tories are openly pocketing public money (even UR is doing this more secretively), the new bill allows police to criminalise a peaceful protest if it 'causes nuisance', the ruling party doesn't care about its own breaches of law, and any chance of the opposition to win a general election are zero.

Maybe I misunderstood your point but how exactly is that not fascism? xD

For starters, fascism requires a strong leader and not the one who hides from reporters in a fridge.

Don't be fooled by his clownish exterior and behaviour, it's all a deceptive facade. Boris Johnson is an extremely shrewd politician and (by West-European standards, at least) pretty ruthless in his ambitions.

[fohat.digs]

(2) there must be a powerful mass media operation to misinform those who are susceptible to propaganda

For example :

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/14/kremlin-memos-russian-media-tucker-carlson-fox-news-mother-jones?link_id=0&can_id=ee3f01c5aee94c4fedf4d71ec14e3417&source=email-the-problem-with-fox-news-just-got-much-worse-3&email_referrer=email_1511684&email_subject=the-problem-with-fox-news-just-got-much-worse

[tp4tissue]

(2) there must be a powerful mass media operation to misinform those who are susceptible to propaganda

For example :

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/14/kremlin-memos-russian-media-tucker-carlson-fox-news-mother-jones?link_id=0&can_id=ee3f01c5aee94c4fedf4d71ec14e3417&source=email-the-problem-with-fox-news-just-got-much-worse-3&email_referrer=email_1511684&email_subject=the-problem-with-fox-news-just-got-much-worse

This is the same tactic We used to Absorb Japan after nvking them.

Post ww jpn was vehemantly against USA relations, the upstanding citizenry and then gov were going to rebuild jpn and REMOVE from power the old Yakuza and War Criminals who were in charge.

In order to overcome this tension, The USA empowered and bought out the War Criminals instead.  This is how we dominated Jpn post war with OUR media/culture/industry. 

R| is now turning it against USA, by buying out OUR rich losers/thieves/Drumphers/republi(ans

[fohat.digs]

buying out OUR rich losers/thieves/Drumphers/republi(ans

Russia can't afford to buy Americans.

The simple answer is that the desires of Putin and his cronies are identical to those of the uncaring ultra-wealthy (which is most, but not all of them).

[tp4tissue]

buying out OUR rich losers/thieves/Drumphers/republi(ans

Russia can't afford to buy Americans.

The simple answer is that the desires of Pu7in and his cronies are identical to those of the uncaring ultra-wealthy (which is most, but not all of them).

This is not true.  They absolute can afford to buy Americans who are indebt/ bad with money,  which spans quite the spectrum among the wealthy as well.

[fohat.digs]

Americans who are indebt/ bad with money

Well, you're right. There was certainly ONE of those.

[tp4tissue]

If this (magic) c00 does not materialize soon, which we're all hoping for,   U|<r  really must negotiate surrender..

Our own 'Murican Hegemony is as fragile as R|'s , push comes to shove, we (May not) be able to win a war against R|.


We're hoping to Shame R| into a c00 right now,  but this is not guaranteed. If Pudz stays, and the c00 does not work out, against the wall, He will obliterate U|<r.


We may have the support of Europe <right now>,  but that can change if a larger "war" starts up..

fingers crossed for c00 100%, but this has never been a very good plan

[tp4tissue]

Alot of recent opposition against US involvement, saying USA has broken promises, committed genocide, predatory imperialists.  The hypocrisy of calling Pudz a w4r cr1m1nal while our own Bush killed 1-2 million iraq civilians, starved, murdered children, etc...

OK, SURE, the US has done all of those things. 

But R!  are worse team_players,  that's the point.

You got a choice of 2 shi7 sandwiches, R and US4,  we the US4 are still better.   With R, they will just give you poo,  with US4, you get a choice of sidesalad at least.


This is the way of the world.

[iri]

2) 🔥🔥🔥 out of 🔥🔥🔥: Russians elect their leader

They definitely don't now under Putin. But everything I've read strongly suggests that Russians were given a choice whom to elect after Yeltsin.

EDIT: either way, that's not actually the point I was making. I was mentioning what can happen to other countries if they elect a fascist.

If we ignore that 'fascist' thing for a second, UK is going towards where Russia is, at full steam. Tories are openly pocketing public money (even UR is doing this more secretively), the new bill allows police to criminalise a peaceful protest if it 'causes nuisance', the ruling party doesn't care about its own breaches of law, and any chance of the opposition to win a general election are zero.

Maybe I misunderstood your point but how exactly is that not fascism? xD

For starters, fascism requires a strong leader and not the one who hides from reporters in a fridge.

Don't be fooled by his clownish exterior and behaviour, it's all a deceptive facade. Boris Johnson is an extremely shrewd politician and (by West-European standards, at least) pretty ruthless in his ambitions.

Can't say I remember anything 'shrewd' about him that happened in his time as PM. It's just scandal after scandal, corruption and incompetence. He won the undercarpet fight for leadership in the Tory party and now refuses to let it go. His popular support that he had due to his 'get Brexit done' slogan is largely gone. The British public think he's a liar. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-liar-poll-b2060046.html

[chyros]

2) 🔥🔥🔥 out of 🔥🔥🔥: Russians elect their leader

They definitely don't now under Putin. But everything I've read strongly suggests that Russians were given a choice whom to elect after Yeltsin.

EDIT: either way, that's not actually the point I was making. I was mentioning what can happen to other countries if they elect a fascist.

If we ignore that 'fascist' thing for a second, UK is going towards where Russia is, at full steam. Tories are openly pocketing public money (even UR is doing this more secretively), the new bill allows police to criminalise a peaceful protest if it 'causes nuisance', the ruling party doesn't care about its own breaches of law, and any chance of the opposition to win a general election are zero.

Maybe I misunderstood your point but how exactly is that not fascism? xD

For starters, fascism requires a strong leader and not the one who hides from reporters in a fridge.

Don't be fooled by his clownish exterior and behaviour, it's all a deceptive facade. Boris Johnson is an extremely shrewd politician and (by West-European standards, at least) pretty ruthless in his ambitions.

Can't say I remember anything 'shrewd' about him that happened in his time as PM. It's just scandal after scandal, corruption and incompetence. He won the undercarpet fight for leadership in the Tory party and now refuses to let it go. His popular support that he had due to his 'get Brexit done' slogan is largely gone. The British public think he's a liar. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-liar-poll-b2060046.html

Obviously he is, and yet he's still in power. And not only that, but pushing through lots of legislation his friends are telling him to.

[fohat.digs]

The British public think he's a liar.

Obviously he is, and yet he's still in power.

I can't speak for Europe, but in the US there is a shocking disconnect in a large portion (large majority?) of "ordinary" people who simply do not understand how profoundly "the government" is decoupled from "the people" in our republic - and it is "the people's" fault because they focus almost exclusively on the President and ignore "downballot candidates" (ie Congress and the judicial) who wield the real power. And if that weren't bad enough, Congress has erected many procedural barriers over the years to cripple its own functionality.

Today the Radical Right media is whipping its spectators into a frenzy over gasoline prices and pointing their attention at President Biden - as if he has something to do with gas prices!

When gas prices double, oil company profits double. Who controls that? And, to add insult to injury, our government actually pays subsidies to oil giants!
https://www.brookings.edu/research/reforming-global-fossil-fuel-subsidies-how-the-united-states-can-restart-international-cooperation/

[tp4tissue]

fohat, you are also severely disillusioned. We are as much a "plutocracy" in your terms as any other country.  Biden/ the Democrats serve the same "type" of money groups as the repoops.

Every president, ever, here come the bombs, oh, we're out of 1raq, U|<R41n3,  order more bombs.

It's not anyone's fault, it's everyone's fault.  Every shortsighted decision made by humans culminate in the leaders we have.

I'm not convinced it could've been done any better.   

Glory to AI,  it's gon' fix everything

[fohat.digs]

Democrats serve the same "type" of money groups as the repoops.

Absolutely false. You could not be more wrong.

For decades the Democratic Party has been cleaning itself up as the Republicans have been digging in for the dollars.

Until the late-1970s the parties were fairly similar, it is true. But everything changed.*

*Except for Joe Manchin - he is one of the worst offenders of all.

[tp4tissue]

Democrats serve the same "type" of money groups as the repoops.

Absolutely false. You could not be more wrong.

For decades the Democratic Party has been cleaning itself up as the Republicans have been digging in for the dollars.

Until the late-1970s the parties were fairly similar, it is true. But everything changed.*

*Except for Joe Manchin - he is one of the worst offenders of all.

Fohat,  there's Nothing to "clean up"

All human organizations eventually end up in the exact same arrangement because this is the only way human command structure can exist.

What difference does it make if Bomb sellers lobby democrat vs repoop.  Or a drug company, or a gasoline company.

Why do civilizations collapse again and again, behavioral sink. Once it reaches a critical state in the <leadership> community,   we make more bad moves than good,   and the whole system tanks.

Behavioral sink is very basically the dis_connect between action_rewards circuitry, a completely insulated cache of humans who are invulnerable and insensitive to the "reality" of which they are suppose to govern.

This happens to ALL humans, democrat and repoops.

Trump kills 2 million americans, he goes home food drugs prostitutes.

Bush kills 2-3 million iraqis, he goes home food drugs prostitutes.

Clinton Kosovo, Iraq,  he goes home food drugs prostitutes.


THE PATTERN pervasive in all situations is their insulation from consequences. Behavioral sink.


AI is the ONLY SOLUTION

Humans are neither intelligent nor disciplined enough to guide humanity any further.

[chyros]

The British public think he's a liar.

Obviously he is, and yet he's still in power.

I can't speak for Europe, but in the US there is a shocking disconnect in a large portion (large majority?) of "ordinary" people who simply do not understand how profoundly "the government" is decoupled from "the people" in our republic - and it is "the people's" fault because they focus almost exclusively on the President and ignore "downballot candidates" (ie Congress and the judicial) who wield the real power. And if that weren't bad enough, Congress has erected many procedural barriers over the years to cripple its own functionality.

Today the Radical Right media is whipping its spectators into a frenzy over gasoline prices and pointing their attention at President Biden - as if he has something to do with gas prices!

It's a bit different here, although I wouldn't be surprised if some of this holds true in the US as well. Right-wing parties here are winning against left-wing ones because poor people have stopped caring about unions and strikes and benefits, and now really only care about getting rid of as many foreigners as they can. This is why UK Labour (and similar parties like it) are becoming irrelevant. The clearest example of this is when Britain voted for Brexit because the obvious economic losses were preferable over Syrian refugees and (Eastern) European immigrants for the majority of the population. Racism is also what's keeping Johnson in power even now - the right wing's electorate's disillusionment in their government flaunting all the rules is a small price to pay if the populace gets to keep getting away with overt hate speech in return.

There was a speech by David Lammy from a few years ago that struck me at the time on this point: "Immigrants have not taken your jobs, our schools and colleges failed to give you the skills, hospitals are not crumbling because of health tourists but decades of austerity that ground them down to the bone, you cannot afford a house because both parties failed to build, not because of Mohammed down the road who moved in" - an uncommon sound in Parliament.

In the Netherlands we have two parties that operate along the same principle - a populist one that hates on Muslims (this party have taken over almost the entirety of the Labour votes for ther exact same reasons), and an in-all-but-name neo-nazi party. The former is sizeable, the latter thankfully very small, and all other parties work together to actively keep them out of the government; working together with them is absolute political suicide at the moment. Hopefully this will last.

[Findecanor]

In the Netherlands we have two parties that operate along the same principle - a populist one that hates on Muslims (this party have taken over almost the entirety of the Labour votes for ther exact same reasons), and an in-all-but-name neo-nazi party. The former is sizeable, the latter thankfully very small, and all other parties work together to actively keep them out of the government; working together with them is absolute political suicide at the moment. Hopefully this will last.

We used to have a similar situation here in Sweden too ... until support for the populist party grew too large.
Then the conservative parties switched sides to theirs, partly to form a winning side, and partly to attract voters from the populist party to their own.
The current crisis has so far only made the ruling Social Democrat (i.e. "Labour") party stronger in the polls though ... but it's an election year and a lot can change.

[iri]

Wimbledon 2022: Russian & Belarusian players banned from tournament

https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/61161016

[fohat.digs]

This is from a breathtaking lecture by a Russian intellectual :

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/26/2094225/-A-terrifying-look-into-Putin-s-possible-motivation-leading-to-the-invasion-of-Ukraine?pm_source=story_sidebar&pm_medium=web&pm_campaign=recommended

[tp4tissue]

good writer sure, but it's far too convoluted a scheme.

It's clear as day that there is absolutely no challenge to Pudz's power, and there wouldn't be for as long as he lived. 

People don't even think 10-20 years ahead, they certainly don't care about what happens after their stepdown or when they're dead.

It was a clear miscalculation of u|<r's resolve, the limited dependence on R|s natural resources, and the depth of economic corruption and rot from within their military industrial,  things they THOUGHT they had, they had already squandered.

Conspiracies are NEVER that Deep..

If it was merely to produce narrow minded sycophants as a base population, there are much cheaper and easier ways to do so.  Hello Fox News and Education cuts

[fohat.digs]

for as long as he lived. 

That is the operative time frame.

[Findecanor]

Russia is now doing internal propaganda against Sweden, including slander against children's book author Astrid Lindgren (1907-2002), calling her a Nazi — which of course is total cock.

Their "proof" is that she in her "war diary" in 1940 had written that if Sweden got invaded by Germany or the USSR (of two evils), she would have preferred it to have been by Germany. At that time, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was still in effect, i.e. USSR and Germany were seen as being practically on the same side.
... but the official revisionist history in Russia today is that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact never existed.

[iri]

... but the official revisionist history in Russia today is that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact never existed.

From "The history of Russia for high school" by Fedorov, Moryakov and Schetinin:

"Молотов и Риббентроп подписали в Москве пакт о ненападении и секретный дополнительный протокол к нему о разделе "сфер влияния" в Восточной Европе. Согласно последнему, Берлин признавал "сферой влияния" Советского Союза республики Прибалтики, Финляндию, восточную часть Польши и Бессарабию".

[iri]

Signing the Molotov Ribbentrop pact, right at the beginning of this article from Russia's Ministry of Defence (no less):

https://mil.ru/winner_may/history/more.htm?id=11982000@cmsArticle

[iri]

A detailed article on Molotov-Ribbentrop pact on ria.ru, which is literally a Russian Government's propaganda website:

https://ria.ru/20090823/181846299.html?ysclid=l2qiysg21d

[tp4tissue]

Russia is now doing internal propaganda against Sweden, including slander against children's book author Astrid Lindgren (1907-2002), calling her a Nazi — which of course is total cock.

Their "proof" is that she in her "war diary" in 1940 had written that if Sweden got invaded by Germany or the USSR (of two evils), she would have preferred it to have been by Germany. At that time, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was still in effect, i.e. USSR and Germany were seen as being practically on the same side.
... but the official revisionist history in Russia today is that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact never existed.

It's important to remember that ALL nations are just as complicit in their own propaganda and Revisionist history.

For example, we want to TRY Pudz for war crimes,  but the United States itself is completely exempt from any war_crime trials.   We even have clauses established that gives us the right to extract any member being put to trial in any country.

There was also no evidence in 1raq,  we never found any legitimate cause for "Our inva510n",  Therefore, our destruction through 1raq could be considered major geno(ide and warcrime, again,  Since we control the tribunal, Nothing happened to "Our" war crim1nals, Bush.

Our testing of Nv(lear weapn's on the Bikinis Islands, iradiating the people there, etc, again war cr1me.

The Rv551an 1nva51on is also NOT entirely "unprov0ked" like it reads in the paper.

We were conducting Joint military exercises with U|<r  leading up to the R| 1nva51on.  we were added weapons and extending Na7o.

What would be the EXPECTED response, if Rv55ia  were building up weapons and joint exercises with Mexico.   U|<R relative to Rv551a is exactly in the position of Mexico Relative to the U5A.

Again,  Tp4 fully believes Pudz is in the wrong for what he's done, and that we (U5A) are "Probably" a better partner for U|<R in the long run,   BUT we are ALSO responsible at least 50% of this 1nva5ion through our international meddling and poor policy.

[fohat.digs]

"Our" war crim1nals, Bush. +Wolfowitz + Rumsfeld + Cheney

Fixed that for you.

we are ALSO responsible at least 50% of this 1nva5ion through our international meddling and poor policy.

I strenuously disagree with you there.

Putin is terrified at the prospect of "his" population seeing and recognizing what freedom and the modern world look like.
Western Europe is example enough, and knowing that Ukraine was growing closer to joining "the West" must have been the last straw.

[tp4tissue]

I strenuously disagree with you there.

Putin is terrified at the prospect of "his" population seeing and recognizing what freedom and the modern world look like.
Western Europe is example enough, and knowing that Ukraine was growing closer to joining "the West" must have been the last straw.

That's 1 part of it for sure,   But imagine rv55ia conducting joint war exercises with Mexico, as we were doing with U|<ra1ne

This is not a completely unprovoked response.   Pudz is in the wrong for the inva51ion certainly,  WE are in the wrong for meddling.

Would it matter if "mexico" wanted to join a Rv551a protectorate ?  what would a U5A response be to such an event  SO CLOSE to its borders.

Portions of Calif, Arizona, Texas, used to BE Mexico,  what about the war crimes there ? 

We're lucky to be in the WINNING Rouge state.     But,, the rest of the world see it for what it is.

Maybe we can suppress general knowledge among our idiot plebian class for a while, but There is a clear united front out there against us for VERY LEGITIMATE grievances.

Our 'Murican Hegemony is just as fragile as the Rv551ans,  "if not" more so...   our labor force is abysmal, highly unproductive.. overweight, obese,  we don't have the resolve to spend on infrastructure and education,   we have climate change denial proto_fas(ist republicans.

The only few technologies we lead are quickly eroding from under us.

At every opportunity, our weapons oligarchs funnel taxes to themselves.   We're exactly like the Rv55ians heading towards a failed state, albeit slower.

[fohat.digs]

We're exactly like the Rv55ians heading towards a failed state, albeit slower.

In some ways the time frame is similar. The Russia/USSR had a wobbly run of about 7 decades, give or take.

The US had become the world's most successful social democracy after WW2, and the "modern world" rebuilt itself from their rubble in our image. They recognized and understood their success and nurtured it.

We had maybe 3 excellent decades then fell into a spiral of decline thanks to the resurgence of the anti-social Right.

And before you start carping about equality, tolerance, racism, etc, remember that we were making slow but solid progress on that front until the Reagan era.

[iri]

Putin is terrified at the prospect of "his" population seeing and recognizing what freedom and the modern world look like.
Western Europe is example enough

You entitled attitude sometimes is just nauseating. After the Iron Curtain fell, Western Europe has been within easy reach for decades for anyone in ex-USSR.

I live in a Western European country whose former leader was recently knighted despite invading a sovereign country on the basis of a false pretext, which caused hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. That's what 'freedom' and 'the modern world' looks like.

knowing that Ukraine was growing closer to joining "the West" must have been the last straw

Ukraine's achievement in the past 30 years is going from second highest HDI in the USSR to the poorest country in Europe. It wasn't getting closer to joining anything before it was invaded.

[fohat.digs]

a false pretext, which caused hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. That's what 'freedom' and 'the modern world' looks like.

That is what right-wing politics looks like.

[iri]

Yeah, the mentioned former leader was the head of the famously right wing Labour Party of the U.K.

[tp4tissue]

not super convinced U5A is winning as much as "reported", look at rubles.

There's a thicker plot here.  /going down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

[fohat.digs]

Putin is just desperate to get the Republicans back in control of the US.

[tp4tissue]

The most popular theory right now seems to be that no matter how the media frames it,  U|<r will have to conceed SOME land for pu7n's off ramp.

further escalation, would force pudz to obliterate U|<r,  U5A will over time get the blame, as other countries see that realistically, they will still come out losers, even with literally all the extra W3AP0NS in the world, then n4to will be completely done, canceled.

you can not threaten a Nv(lear nation with force, they will not respond. 

The most realistic ending from U|<r's perspective may well be an ugly but necessary concession. (This is assuming our sanctions hold, and actually work long term, which is not guaranteed, trade wars are hard to win)

<there's an element> of economic trap.... now that they've had to buy Rv551a's energy with rub1es...

The cornerstone of the $Dollar is that OIL is traded solely in $Dollars.   The middle east may not prefers this partnership with the U5A in the long run.    But now, with sanctions, the issue has been forced.

There's alot of unknown with Eur0pe because their short/medium term is a very difficult energy transition that will be major drag on their e(conom1es.

So, now we're fighting solely for "a principle".  Short term, people can do that, drag it out, they'd rather have full bellies.       you can stay mad for <a while> and do things out of spite, <the principle>,   LONG term, you don't stay mad enough forever, and if whatever you're doing causes you HUNGER,  willpower may capitulate real fast.

The U5A is also not in a position to sustain this for 10 years, with climate change, our own infrastructure/ agriculture/energy is at major risk without Hedge Investments on their end.


The Mil17tary industrial will be happy, the gasoline company will be happy, but not everyone else.

Spending on M_industrial also means NOT SPENDING on other things. <which arguably, is more critical>


Pudz, CAN wait,  he's a di(tator, he doesn't have election risk,  he's already a permanent Trvmp kleptocracy, his government maintenance cost is VERY LOW.

The U5A can still fluctuate, and if the people start to feel more pinches on their bottom line, they can flip.


Trvmp comes back, they are basically neo_fascist, climate change denialists 100% in the pocket of Oil Companies..

Keep in mind guys, the U5A lost 4 wars in a row. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.

We no longer have the appetite to use our own soldiers, so the industrial complex is all too happy to sacrifie U|<ran1ans,    But it's unrealistic to expect v1(tory even here, because the context of modern w4r has changed,  back in the day, you fight and you go home, it's done,    Now you're in the bog FOREVER, until 1 side decides this is expensive and NOT working.


So right now, we're patting ourselves on the back, look at Rv551a's ****ty army, look how they can't make advances,   Neither can WE. ,   because these are not wars, where we can win by conventional means, GO IN,  Kill everyone... ,    It means an indefinite involvement.  Why has this lead to 4 lost wars by the U5A,    Well, because our COSTS are too high relative to the opposition.  How much do IEDs cost,  trained disarmament engineers, equipment, "SHIPPING" $$$$$.   If only Amazon Prime (War) would develop Free Shipping for our military.

[fohat.digs]

Just today I was reading about how Putin is frantically moving Russians into the occupied territories and putting them into Ukrainian houses so that when the inevitable referendum is taken the pro-Russia faction will out-vote the remaining Ukrainians.

Presumably it would be up to Zelensky to sue for peace since Ukraine is the "defendant" but it will be a matter of pride to keep fighting. And as long as we keep provisioning the effort there is no end in sight.

[Leslieann]

The most popular theory right now seems to be that no matter how the media frames it,  U|<r will have to conceed SOME land for pu7n's off ramp.

That or bankrupt Russia... Which is a possibility.

[tp4tissue]

The most popular theory right now seems to be that no matter how the media frames it,  U|<r will have to conceed SOME land for pu7n's off ramp.

That or bankrupt Russia... Which is a possibility.

very very unlikely, monopoly bucks (banking system) vs ceaser's palace (a self sustained nu(lear nation with their own food/weapons)

no amount of money / force would compel them.

[fohat.digs]

Seriously, when Putin goes down will there be anybody with the will, or the stomach, or even the desire to carry on with this atrocious war?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10813667/Top-oligarch-secretly-recorded-saying-Putin-blood-cancer.html

[tp4tissue]

ok so that's dailymail, equivalent to tmz, as much as we want to believe, idk....

the next guy in line will almost certainly be worse. because he has to do something super crazy to keep the regime together and scare everyone.

if pudz does go, they will probably fully mobilize, ukraine will be destroyed overnight, nothing can save them in time.  europe MIGHT do n4to,  they MIGHT not, depending on what CN decides. 

[fohat.digs]

so that's dailymail

If anything, Daily Mail leans right but it is regarded as reliable.

What, in your opinion, are some good sources for solid journalism and reliable information ?

[tp4tissue]

seriously, you're arguing FOR dailymail ?  talk about living at the bottom of a well.

it's a tabloid like TMZ. how do you not know this ?