Kinesis Freestyle Rant

[Glod]

Quick rant as a new member to GH and new to Mechanical Keyboards...................
Sorry....

Because of suffering from carpal tunnel and essential tremor (involuntary shaking of hands) and feeling the need to use a ergonomic-style keyboard, Ive been using the Kinesis Freestyle (not the mechanical Advantage) with the VIP accessory (taking it on and off) for more than 2.5 years now as my daily rider
 
i bought this keyboard after going through 3 Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboards from 2006 to 2010.

I can say that the Freestyle itself is extremely durable and easy to clean even though the keys have started to fade and are super shiny now. I cant say the same for the VIP accessory kit which has broken before and slides all over the place on my desk (its annoying).

If you want this keyboard with the VIP accessory kit, you might as well buy an extra VIP accessory kit.

Truth is my hands hurt just as much as it did with the Microsoft but i really thought the seperation and tilt was helping my hands. WRONG. WRONG

I recently decided as an experiment to temporarily switch back to a $### normal sized rubber dome keyboard with a simple wrist pad, which excluding the use of my laptop is the first time in 6 years i have done so and what do you know MY HANDS DON'T HURT. WTH

Ergonomics; I guess "you're" not for everyone.

So i decided to treat myself to a new keyboard,
Went on geekhack for the first time, drooled over mechanical keyboards and topre switches,
i briefly thought about the Advantage  and giving ergonomics another shot for 300$ but i dont want to take up so much room on my desk, and then I thought about tenkeyless filcos/CM/Realforce/etc, then i thought about the Poker/Pure/RACE, then i just randomly and almost recklessly bought the HHKB Pro2. I just got the thing in today.
Its going to be interesting going from the Kinesis Freestyle to the HHKB......Im in for some fun adjusting.

i know, i know, "cool story bro".......
ill go hide in my hole after this rant....

[tp4tissue]

Your wrist problem sounds similar to one of my piano students.

Basically he has developed very tense' muscle memory for when he presses the keys.

His shoulder and wrist are very stiff, not by his choice, he was just trained that way because his parents were very harsh on him and his last teacher didn't give a ****.


What I recommend is relearning how to type, retraining your hand.


You could try building my, whole arm rest, there's another thread in ergonomics, or just sit very far into the table, if possible.

Put your arm in home position, now completely relax them, practice using the minimum amount of movement necessary to complete the intended keystroke.

Do this very very slowly.

Essentially you will be trying to inhibit all your old movements and any tension in your wrist, shoulder and elbow.

[Lanx]

yea, you'd probably benefit more from "switch type" than ergo position, i guess the topres could be more ergonomic (i have no opinion to test this out).

[Glod]

Your wrist problem sounds similar to one of my piano students.

Basically he has developed very tense' muscle memory for when he presses the keys.

His shoulder and wrist are very stiff, not by his choice, he was just trained that way because his parents were very harsh on him and his last teacher didn't give a ****.


What I recommend is relearning how to type, retraining your hand.


You could try building my, whole arm rest, there's another thread in ergonomics, or just sit very far into the table, if possible.

Put your arm in home position, now completely relax them, practice using the minimum amount of movement necessary to complete the intended keystroke.

Do this very very slowly.

Essentially you will be trying to inhibit all your old movements and any tension in your wrist, shoulder and elbow.

you sound like my viola instructor when i was young lol

nah though i get what your saying, one thing is actually that i put the keyboard very close to the edge of my desk.

This is completely different experience than the "ergonomic" keyboards i used for 6 years so in a way i am relearning, however i am very attached to those home row keys, not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing

yea, you'd probably benefit more from "switch type" than ergo position, i guess the topres could be more ergonomic (i have no opinion to test this out).

So far so good, my hands dont hurt and ive been using this keyboard all day

[Gerk]

Sometimes the best thing you can do is to keep constantly changing things up.  I miss having a split keyboard -- I used MS ergo 4ks for many years, but when I tried to go back to using one a month or so ago (after a long time using boards with good switches) it just felt soooo bad I couldn't do it.  The hand position was ok, the keys, not so much.

I think for me, being a big guy, would be to have even a flat board that has some space in the middle (like the MS ergos do).  I've done my time with Kinesis Advantage and they weren't for me -- the inverted cups didn't jive with the way my hands work -- but the spacing between the two sets of keys was great.  The thumb keys ... I didn't like at all.  maybe I need to get out the hacksaw and start cutting boards in half hehehe.

[Gerk]

And if you only did 3 of those boards in that many years you were doing pretty well.  They would last 6 months tops for me, sometimes less before the keys would start jamming up on me due to wear the the little plastic guides they are on.

[Glod]

Sometimes the best thing you can do is to keep constantly changing things up.  I miss having a split keyboard -- I used MS ergo 4ks for many years, but when I tried to go back to using one a month or so ago (after a long time using boards with good switches) it just felt soooo bad I couldn't do it.  The hand position was ok, the keys, not so much.

I think for me, being a big guy, would be to have even a flat board that has some space in the middle (like the MS ergos do).  I've done my time with Kinesis Advantage and they weren't for me -- the inverted cups didn't jive with the way my hands work -- but the spacing between the two sets of keys was great.  The thumb keys ... I didn't like at all.  maybe I need to get out the hacksaw and start cutting boards in half hehehe.

I think i will miss the separation a little bit, maybe for its cool factor alone when i bring my keyboard into the office lol but also for the ergo factor. Fact is, and im learning after using these HHKB Topre switches, the Freestyle, which is nowhere near the build quality of the Advantage, just isn't a good designed keyboard, The rubber dome keys were just horrible and I think the keys themselves may have been hurting my fingers. maybe if they made the freestyle mechanical with cherry switches then maybe it would have been a better keyboard.

[Gerk]

If they made a Freestyle with good switches I'd be all over it.  It seems we can only get either good switches or a proper split keyboard, there's nothing that I've found (that's affordable!) that has both.  Also I find it really annoying that the couple of keyboards that you can get with good switches and decent separation feel the need to reinvent the wheel as far as key layouts go.  I honestly don't want to learn a new key layout, I just want good switches and a true split keyboard.  I guess it's too much to ask

[dorkvader]

If they made a Freestyle with good switches I'd be all over it.  It seems we can only get either good switches or a proper split keyboard, there's nothing that I've found (that's affordable!) that has both.  Also I find it really annoying that the couple of keyboards that you can get with good switches and decent separation feel the need to reinvent the wheel as far as key layouts go.  I honestly don't want to learn a new key layout, I just want good switches and a true split keyboard.  I guess it's too much to ask

ergoDOX! Should I put you down as interested? I notice you're not on the list yet.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/split-ergonomic-keyboard-project-t1753-420.html
http://ergodox.org/Default.aspx

[Gerk]

No, but thanks for pointing it out.  The ergodox looks interesting in the way it's physically split, but it's not what I'm looking for.  I'm not a fan of thumb keys and I want all my stuff like <>/?;:'"[{]} (and probably also arrow keys) where they are on a normal layout.  That's one of the things that kills me with the truly ergonomic.  I could use that ergodox layout to type all day long every day if I just typed the english language.  When I'm coding it's a whole different ballgame ... at least for me.

I honestly just want a tenkeyless board cut in half (well sort of half, in two anyway).  I do have a donor board to play with if I ever find the time to try that for fun   Not this year though!

[Burz]

I'm glad you were able to reduce the pain.

Have you looked at the Truly Ergonomic? It's more like a regular flat keyboard, but has Cherry switches and some hand separation.

[Glod]

I'm glad you were able to reduce the pain.

Have you looked at the Truly Ergonomic? It's more like a regular flat keyboard, but has Cherry switches and some hand separation.

I glanced over it on the web but i wasn't interested probably because i became absolutely obsessed with the HHKB lol

[hoggy]

i briefly thought about the Advantage  and giving ergonomics another shot for 300$ but i dont want to take up so much room on my desk

The advantage looks far bigger than it is.  It's wider than a tenkeyless, but narrower than a full keyboard.

Hope you find something that works for you.  Like Gerk, I've been a fan of swapping boards frequently to avoid problems.

[Lanx]

I honestly just want a tenkeyless board cut in half (well sort of half, in two anyway).  I do have a donor board to play with if I ever find the time to try that for fun   Not this year though!

you want to cut a 10key in half and you liked the msergo4k, try my msergo4k and cherry brown mod, it's a lot of work and fabrication tho, but at least you'd have a keyboard that you can't complain about (cuz it's custom to you).

[Gerk]

I've thought about doing a mod like that one Lanx (and in fact have even gathered most of the materials needed, have a few ergo's and a cherry based board for donors) ... but it's the time factor that stops me.