The end of Win7 is here.

[Leslieann]

Basically MS is no longer going to allow updates or new drivers for Win7 or Win 8 (which is already effectively dead).
They are allowing some, but they are making it more difficult and some will straight up not be allowed.

So what, just don't upgrade hardware right? You also need to worry about newer games needing an updated video driver. And then there was the Winxp source code leak, even Win10 contains a lot of APIs and code from XP. This will bring a lot of new viruses and attack methods.

While you might think you can still buy current model printers and peripherals for a while to come, true but this tells companies it's okay to not list Win7 compatibility anymore and many will change those boxes as soon as possible (or put a sticker covering the Win7 text/logo. They can reduce staff if they only have to support one OS, so while that new printer might work just fine with your system it may not say so on the box, and you still need to worry about those security issues. 


Don't want Win10, try Linux, whatever you do though, don't go buy a Mac or even go the Hackintosh route. While it may be tempting Apple is switching to Arm and ditching Intel and that puts you right back in the same situation you are currently in with Win7. Worse, Apple's ecosystem doesn't maintain backwards compatibility or support like Windows, much less Linux so as soon as the new processors arrive all development will turn in that direction, in just a few short years you will start seeing a sharp decline in support and you will be looking at a new machine (unless you convert it to Windows or Linux).

[tp4tissue]

I'mma quit PC and become yam farmer.

[yui]

I'mma quit PC and become yam farmer.

the true ultimate solution to it all, well until you need to sell your yam online
and for windows 7 we will need to see, i don't know if this will have the expected effect as windows 10 is still not ready for critical applications, windows 7 was bad already but 10 is the pinnacle of instability, and compatibility for custom apps are not great (vbs/vb6 is still used extensively in some special applications). so random reaction of the OS to the same inputs, removal of essential features and the lack of testing may push some companies straight off windows to find alternatives.

[Leslieann]

i don't know if this will have the expected effect as windows 10 is still not ready for critical applications

Microsoft doesn't care about that.
Want to know the next step... the source code will (somehow) get leaked in 1-3 years from now.

They don't care if you think it's ready, they don't care if a Fortune 500 company doesn't think it's ready, they think it's ready and they want you running it and companies buying those new licenses. I said before people THINK they have a choice in what version of Windows they run but they really don't.  When MS decides to kill it, which is what they're doing, you will be pushed onto it.

[yui]

until banks says no, it is what happened to win XP and Microsoft had no choices but to bend the knee, for years. if they loose all their consumers they will backtrack quite fast, no choices when you have deadlines and you need to show investor that you make all the money. loosing tons of market shares in a blink would hurt them badly, the question is will it happen or will corporation accept to put their important and confidential data on an untested and insecure platform, common sense would make me want the 1st option to happen but peoples deciding are rarely technically literate so who knows.

[Leslieann]

until banks says no, it is what happened to win XP and Microsoft had no choices but to bend the knee, for years. if they loose all their consumers they will backtrack quite fast, no choices when you have deadlines and you need to show investor that you make all the money. loosing tons of market shares in a blink would hurt them badly, the question is will it happen or will corporation accept to put their important and confidential data on an untested and insecure platform, common sense would make me want the 1st option to happen but peoples deciding are rarely technically literate so who knows.

You're not a bank or corporation who can (and will) pay them to make that latest security patch or driver or hire outside experts to deal with it.
They did this with XP  but XP was also an anomaly, one that MS is not keen on replicating.

None of that matters to the end user like you or I though, it's not the OS that is the problem, it's drivers. A bank may get a driver for that new touchscreen for an ATM but good luck convincing HP to make a driver for that printer you bought for $50.

[yui]

to me drivers were never quite the problem with running 2000 until past the release of 8, it was the lack of security update, i could not upgrade my pc to a more recent version because i did not like xp and past xp the cpu was pegged at 100% and the hard disk drive was full from the get go, so i could not get to 7 until after i upgraded my PC, and i know that end users can't do anything, it is why i talked about corporations and banks, not users

[Leslieann]

to me drivers were never quite the problem with running 2000 until past the release of 8, it was the lack of security update, i could not upgrade my pc to a more recent version because i did not like xp and past xp the cpu was pegged at 100% and the hard disk drive was full from the get go, so i could not get to 7 until after i upgraded my PC, and i know that end users can't do anything, it is why I talked about corporations and banks, not users

I would hope no one working corporate I.T. is monitoring GH for corporate tech advice.

BTW
I still had one customer using an offline Win98 system in 2014(?) for their business and in 2017(?) I came across a church that had a 486 that had only been retired a few weeks earlier.

[yui]

I talked hypothetical, and yeah of course those edge cases exist, i work near CNC that uses windows 7 (one from 2019) for the 2 most recent, one windows 2k, one MS-DOS (cnc built in 2012) and only capable of being controlled from a windows XP machine and 2 using IBM OS/2, our test equipment all uses windows XP (last one bought in January) because the manufacturer does not want to develop drivers for more recent windows.
And well maybe some should go on GH for advice... i saw quite a few servers running windows 2000 server or 2003 not too long ago, i think everyone here could tell them to at least not let them access internet, even less run a web server on it.
and some of those cnc are online, because the manufacturer included DRM in their software preventing the machine from loading programs when offline... to make sure that the machine are safe and work properly (what they say)

[Leslieann]

because the manufacturer does not want to develop drivers for more recent windows.
because the manufacturer included DRM in their software preventing the machine from loading programs when offline...

The entire machining industry is stuck in the mud and needs a serious a**-kicking, from the machinists themselves all the way up through management and the suppliers.
Too many people with their heads buried too far up their own a**.

For an industry that survives on tech they seem to fight tech and progress every chance they get.

[yui]

maybe when new generations of diy machinist using linuxcnc or other modern open source controlers comes into the field we will see change but right now they only want to stick with what they know (basic human fear of the unknown) and will fight to fix the machine from 1981 even though it became a death trap years ago and caught on fire twice...

[tp4tissue]

I talked hypothetical, and yeah of course those edge cases exist, i work near CNC that uses windows 7 (one from 2019) for the 2 most recent, one windows 2k, one MS-DOS (cnc built in 2012) and only capable of being controlled from a windows XP machine and 2 using IBM OS/2, our test equipment all uses windows XP (last one bought in January) because the manufacturer does not want to develop drivers for more recent windows.
And well maybe some should go on GH for advice... i saw quite a few servers running windows 2000 server or 2003 not too long ago, i think everyone here could tell them to at least not let them access internet, even less run a web server on it.
and some of those cnc are online, because the manufacturer included DRM in their software preventing the machine from loading programs when offline... to make sure that the machine are safe and work properly (what they say)

Cncs and other industrial equipm are different though, the cost to re-validate new software/firmware would exceed the cost of the machines. It's also most of the time impossible because they no longer have all the dangly bits required to actually update.

[yui]

Cncs and other industrial equipm are different though, the cost to re-validate new software/firmware would exceed the cost of the machines. It's also most of the time impossible because they no longer have all the dangly bits required to actually update.

it is not normal that they lose the code for their own software, and selling a new machine with MS-DOS and XP in 2012 and a new machine with XP in 2020 seems a bit out of touch (bear in mind the machine cost 30keuros for a few relays resistors and transformers, those test machines are not rocket science) the industrial equipment industry is running on vapors...

[tp4tissue]

it is not normal that they lose the code for their own software, and selling a new machine with MS-DOS and XP in 2012 and a new machine with XP in 2020 seems a bit out of touch (bear in mind the machine cost 30keuros for a few relays resistors and transformers, those test machines are not rocket science) the industrial equipment industry is running on vapors...

They're wurkn' on AI controlled CNC Yam farming. 's gonna be great.

[Darthbaggins]

At least in Linux based distros, there is a flavor for everyone.  I personally stick to Debian based for now, but I do plan on starting to tinker in the Fedora distros just to gain some experience and knowledge in them.  Also Arch has been on my list to try out as well - can say that is the one thing I like about Linux is that I can tinker more than I can w/ my windows 10 images (very restrictive in comparison).  I know my small experience with Linux has actually helped me in my career so far, as I'm primarily the only one who can work in it at the company I am with (more clients have been requesting machines w/ it on their deployments). 
I have moved on from w7 since the launch of the w10 alpha and betas just so I could get accustomed to the newer OS early, and have had minimal issues with it and have liked it for what it is.

[yui]

At least in Linux based distros, there is a flavor for everyone.  I personally stick to Debian based for now, but I do plan on starting to tinker in the Fedora distros just to gain some experience and knowledge in them.  Also Arch has been on my list to try out as well - can say that is the one thing I like about Linux is that I can tinker more than I can w/ my windows 10 images (very restrictive in comparison).  I know my small experience with Linux has actually helped me in my career so far, as I'm primarily the only one who can work in it at the company I am with (more clients have been requesting machines w/ it on their deployments). 
I have moved on from w7 since the launch of the w10 alpha and betas just so I could get accustomed to the newer OS early, and have had minimal issues with it and have liked it for what it is.

for enterprise you ought to look into fedora as it will be the closest thing to red hat that you can get for free, i pretty much only saw Unbuntu/Debian and RHEL in enterprise or custom apps built on linux kernel too, but that nothing can prepare you for those. for windows tinkerer i would recommend OpenSuse though, Yast2 makes it a pretty painless migration i think.

[Darthbaggins]

The main use of Ubuntu client's have been using are custom builds that I have to use a live drive to deploy onto the primary drive.  So far basic Ubuntu is not used at all unless it's being used as a tool to deploy their own variation of the distro.

[yui]

i have been at a company where they switched their servers (web, apache/php/mariadb) from windows 2012 to full Ubuntu with unity and all, quite a bit heavier than needs be but better then windows for sure.

[Sintpinty]

Before i had to isolate for covid since i came into contact with a covid positive kid (kid got sick in my com tech class) i basically spent all day upgrading the computers to win 10. It was painful and slow.