Author Topic: The Problem With Artisans  (Read 4994 times)

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Offline jaffers

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The Problem With Artisans
« on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 20:13:43 »
This is a rant about artisans and I feel it needs to be said.

If you have soft feelings and don't like it hard and raw I'd advise you stop reading now you poor sappy bastard.

The current state of artisans is a conglomerate of ****. The colour ways, the designs, the quality control. As such I will break this down into those three categories.

Ever since artisan making has become more mainstream, more and more caps have been coming out in wild colour schemes that don't seem to fit ANY sets. This isn't bad on its own BUT recently a lot of these colour ways don't actually look good period. Now keycaps are a pretty easy palette to work with, you've generally got, black, white, beige or a combination of both. If you want to 'pull' a keyboard together (the colours fit together nicely), say with beige caps, just throw some muted tones of the colour you want to pop in there. Whether that's muted green, pink, blue, whatever. I'm telling you right now I'm not putting a ****ing bright rainbow coloured cap on my sleek custom with dyesubs in classic beige. That's horrendous. I've asked friends IRL what they think of certain people's boards and I've shown them the keyboard and told them what do you think of this (insert someone's keyboard with mismatching artisan) and often the response I get is 'What the **** is up with that weird key? It looks alright if it didn't have that on it' And I've done this with more photo's than I have fingers and toes to count on.

I'm not saying that vendors should go out and start pumping the muted caps out at all, but when designing a keycap take into consideration what its going to look like on a keyboard with other key caps. A good example of this is the latest clacks that CC has put out.


Herr Freitag + Friday Jr. by Zach Robert, on Flickr

Do you think that by some miracle CC somehow fluked the colour way and it looks good on beige? **** no, a good bit of thought went into that design which is blatantly obvious by its popularity. Hurr hurr, what should we do then? I suggest this. TAKE A LOOK AT A ****ING COLOUR WHEEL YOU THICK C.... - just take a look at a colour wheel...


^good muted tone wheel, stronger tone wheel for those interested -> http://willkempartschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/colourwheel01.gif

Complimentary colours on on the opposite side to each other if ya didn't know. As with all rules there can be exceptions but its one hell of a good starting point when coming up with what to pair what with. That said, I think every once in a blue moon, making a striking artisan isn't all that bad either, it is art after all, but you damn better be sure that cap looks nice colours aside, which leads us into..

Keycap design. Unlike colours, design is even more so an subjective topic. It's harder to master and even harder to produce something that looks good. At least with colours there are some sort of 'guidelines' that can be followed.

Take a look at the Brobot V2


Image courtesy of ramnes

Instant classic design. This is supported by the the prices that it goes for on ebay as we all know. But that just it. It's one design. And since then brocaps has made a few other good designs such as the reapers (IMO both the reaper classic and the OG reaper aren't too shabby, I quite like the ReaperClassic) but also has made some bad designs. IIRC there were some caps that sold BELOW retail on MM. Does that mean he's a bad designer? Hell no, thats progression. You make some bad ones and you make some good ones. But I bet you any money brocaps hasn't put out way more than half the designs he's come up with because he wasn't happy with them. You don't always hit a home run, sometimes you stike a foul and live with it. But you certainly don't keep putting out ****ty designs if you know they are ****ty (and yes I KNOW YOU KNOW THEY'RE ****TY, don't even TRY to lie to yourselftaking other maker's here not brocaps)

I'm going to relate to this personally. You wanna know how many hours I've spent on a photo shoot to get to the end result and just be unhappy with it all and never post them? HUNDREDS LOTS (it'd be close by now though) I'd be a fool to not admit I've some degree of vainity when it comes to expressing myself artistically, and I'm still not happy with 90% of the photos on my flickr. Although for me at least, being vain has introduced a safety net for sub par photos and some sort of discipline when releasing content (and yeah, if you're in the know how than that's why there is no ****ing videos yet, wait until next yeardon't concern yourself if you don't know what this means)

A scenario that I didn't think I'd share until now, is when I went out camping on top of a mountain to get 1 photograph that turned out like crap and I never posted it. I packed a swag (which weighs like 15 kilo's or about 30 pounds), a bag full of camping gear (about another 10 kilo's), an entire camping chair, and my camera gear (tripod, camera, lenses, etc..) put it all on my back and hiked up a mountain to get a 1 (ONE) photo. I set up my gear and tripod and waited 5 hours to get different shots of the sun going down in order to do a single photo that looked something a little like this. By no means a small amount of effort for a single photograph and if I didn't like hiking to begin with I probably wouldn't have done it but I digress.

I never posted it. And there isn't anything wrong with that and I feel better for it. My point is, have some sense of pride when putting out a cap. It's YOUR work and everyone is going to judge you for it. Don't be THAT guy that puts out terrible caps. Don't delude yourself into thinking that what you've made is a good design because people have replied to your work telling you its great. This isn't 4chan so people aren't going to flame you over a bad design, they're going to encourage you to get better. And people are going to buy it because this is keyboards the economy of this hobby is absolutely retarded. YOU know when its a bad design, unlike photography I encourage you to post it and show almost a history of your work getting better. But please, have some sort of restraint when selling people this **** because the amount of keyboards I've seen with some god aweful caps on them is ridiculous.

The only thing here that should be strictly adhered to, everything else is subjective:

QC (quality control for the uninitiated) section is going to be brief. Don't sell caps with bubbles in them and if you do try your damn hardest to make them bubble free. If you can't get all the bubbles out, figure out how to hand cast as well as you can and come up with some sort of guideline for yourself where you can differentiate the caps by a level of quality and sell what is over that mark and trash the rest. I've got a hand cast binge cap that has one bubble in it and I'm ok with that cause it's not riddled with them like some caps are. I'm buying a keycap not a sponge.

To wrap this up here's some sort of advise. TAKE A LOSS. You've got to take the good with the bad and understand that you aren't always going to put out top notch stuff and its a lot of hard work. That's the nature of life, keycaps are no different. There is nothing wrong with with imperfect caps, whether it be the colour way, design or QC. But have some restraint when selling to people.

END. - sorry it was so long

Supporting sentences that don't fit anywhere else

I wish I could post pictures to support this rant but in order to not be put on a pitchfork and paraded around, I won't make an example of peoples bad caps.

Making an argument about something artistic is hard so I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Although art is subjective, people have a general sense of what looks good and what doesn't, otherwise we wouldn't put certain 'forms' of art on a pedestal (i.e. fashion and body image come to mind for lack of a better example).

If you don't think I know the hard work that goes into making keycaps let me tell you something cowboy. When I first got into keyboards it was all the hype. I went out and I bought the super sculpy, the resin, the dentists tools, the silicon the real deal. I know how hard it is and the reason you don't see any caps from me is because I'm really really bad at making keycaps. Embarrassingly so. Believe me I know the work that goes into it. I've 'wasted' a lot of time in my artistic ventures, but I don't consider it a waste. That's where the loss comes into it. I learnt from my experiences.

For reference:
Keycaps = keycaps that you type on
Artisans = sculpted plastic

EDIT: Seems to be some confusion. Things I'm not saying are:
1. Make perfect caps, this is impossible
2. **** YOU ****TY ARTISAN MAKERS
3. Don't sell anything
4. Only use complimentary colours. It's a starting point
5. Copy clack or bro or anyone else. They're used as examples and that's the end of it
6. These colour ways are bad waaa stop making them (go a head man, makes no difference to me, more power to ya)

What I am saying:
1. You will make bad designs, when starting out. Or maybe not. Sell them if you want, I mean free market man, but don't keep flogging a dead horse so to speak if you know its bad
2. Take pride in your work, take pride in your work, take pride in your work, take pride in your work, take pride in your work, take pride in your work, take pride in your work.
3. If anything, I'm giving insight into an open market. There seems to be a lack of matching caps (which appeal to people who share the same tastes as I), thus why my wallet is not drained.

And no, I have not bought a whole bunch of bad artisans and this is the result. I vote with my wallet. One of my favourite sayings is "If I don't like it, I don't swallow"  ratatouille movie by the way guys, before you get too excited...

If you are going to pick this argument apart with technicalities **** off. REAL TALK ONLY

BTW if you came to the conclusion that I'm aggressive, I'm not, just Australian, this is how I talk, its all fun and games with keyboards, but I did feel this needed to be posted
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 November 2016, 20:56:30 by jaffers »

Offline Firebolt1914

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 20:15:59 »
Great post, didn't read it but I agree.

Offline hkf

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 20:16:47 »
Quote
Unlike colours, design is even more so an objective topic.

stopped reading here

Offline fanpeople

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 20:18:26 »
You made me hard with your strong words. :thumb:


Offline kiwi99

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 20:18:32 »
I am indifferent after reading this

Offline dgneo

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 20:28:31 »
All that reading just to find out you don't swallow?

smh

Offline jaffers

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 20:42:24 »
Edited a few points to better clarify my meaning

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 20:58:52 »
Didn't read..

I'm guessing you're talking about Color matching problem..


Nothing you can do about that,  since there are far fewer keycap sets than there are random artisan color schemes.

Offline Spopepro

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 21:13:38 »
Did read.

It's about ethics in cap casting?

Offline digi

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 21:16:15 »
This is why you never lube switches...it's makes your fingers run longer than they should...

Offline romevi

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 21:24:13 »
Get a life.




But seriously.
I definitely agree on the color-matching. When I first got into keyboards and artisans, color-matching never really bothered me. It wasn't until recently that I realized that many of my caps don't really fit the keyset I'm using, and therefore don't go used. By themselves they might look great, especially in promo shots, but now I go for caps that I can use on my board right then and there. When I enter a sale, I think to myself, "Will this cap go with classic beige, all black, or Hydro (a personal favorite, but insert your own other favorite set)?" If not, then I don't go for it. I've experienced many caps over the past year and a half and have held works by almost every artisan out there; there are definitely some that are made with more care and quality control, all the while costing me around the same price as "inferior" caps.

I too have dabbled into sculpting a bit and feel it may not be for me. Sculpting at that size is hard, but I'm going to give it another shot. I definitely commend all those who can bust out a good design and can cast it with a strict process. I've refined my taste in the past year to certain design, height, and color preferences, but I'm sure that is purely subjective. The materials and quality control, however, are not.

Offline jaffers

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 21 November 2016, 21:30:26 »
Get a life.

But seriously.
I definitely agree on the color-matching. When I first got into keyboards and artisans, color-matching never really bothered me. It wasn't until recently that I realized that many of my caps don't really fit the keyset I'm using, and therefore don't go used. By themselves they might look great, especially in promo shots, but now I go for caps that I can use on my board right then and there. When I enter a sale, I think to myself, "Will this cap go with classic beige, all black, or Hydro (a personal favorite, but insert your own other favorite set)?" If not, then I don't go for it. I've experienced many caps over the past year and a half and have held works by almost every artisan out there; there are definitely some that are made with more care and quality control, all the while costing me around the same price as "inferior" caps.

I too have dabbled into sculpting a bit and feel it may not be for me. Sculpting at that size is hard, but I'm going to give it another shot. I definitely commend all those who can bust out a good design and can cast it with a strict process. I've refined my taste in the past year to certain design, height, and color preferences, but I'm sure that is purely subjective. The materials and quality control, however, are not.

Exactly why I posted this

This is why you never lube switches...it's makes your fingers run longer than they should...

You know it!

Did read.
Didn't read..

Pay no mind if you don't care about making keycaps, you're not missing out on anything


Offline DanielT

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 01:32:41 »
I think artisan caps are now beyond the point where you get one just to to have something to make your keyboard look nicer. I think in most of the cases it is about collecting/hoarding them. Some of them are not even usable on a keyboard, at least not for me.
I like to use them and want to match the theme I have on my board, this is why I have only a couple of them, the rest I gave away or sold. I have also some other reasons but I've learned it's better to keep them for myself, truth is not welcomed in this hobby these days....
 Also QC is a very important point, some artisans, even well known ones forget about the small details and you get a cap that looks not finished, rough looking with dull colors and finish while in the "advertising" photos you see something totally different. This makes you feel like the maker dumps all the ... stuff on the market knowing that people will buy it anyway.
At this point this subject is a closed thing for me, if I'm lucky enough to get one more CC at a decent price for my last keyboard it's fine, otherwise I really don't need this agravation. I have joined this hobby in search of a better keyboard, found it! In the progress I've met some very nice people and that was a bonus for me, a huge one!
Semnătura lu’ pește prăjit ....

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 07:42:05 »
Artisan caps are their own form of currency.

Didn't read anything in the thread.

Offline Photekq

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 10:05:33 »
Do you seriously expect me to read all of that?
https://kbdarchive.org/
github
discord: hi mum#5710

Offline digi

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 10:17:00 »
He's Australian...enough said.. he's probably friends with Elrick too.

Offline mike52787

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 10:19:07 »
not gonna read because I dont give half a **** about artisans

Offline ripwallet

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 11:07:57 »
Lul

Offline fanpeople

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 11:35:38 »
He's Australian...enough said.. he's probably friends with Elrick too.

Triggered..... mate.

Offline Dr_Alphabet

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 11:36:22 »
I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is. OP doesn't like colors or something?

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Offline digi

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 11:38:26 »
I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is. OP doesn't like colors or something?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk



The point of this thread is there is no point...........and yes, Jaffers is a racist.

Offline fanpeople

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 11:41:27 »
I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is. OP doesn't like colors or something?

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The point of this thread is there is no point...........and yes, Jaffers is a racist.

Oh snap,

Offline Halverson

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 11:45:08 »
He's Australian...enough said.. he's probably friends with Elrick too.

Ridiculous, you probably think I like other Canadians too.

Offline fanpeople

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 11:47:12 »
He's Australian...enough said.. he's probably friends with Elrick too.

Ridiculous, you probably think I like other Canadians too.

Please dont compare Australia with actual countries.

Offline Halverson

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 11:49:45 »
He's Australian...enough said.. he's probably friends with Elrick too.

Ridiculous, you probably think I like other Canadians too.

Please dont compare Australia with actual countries.

I guess so, it's nicer than this country.....and deadlier.

Offline digi

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 11:51:14 »
Please dont compare Australia with actual countries.

+1

Ridiculous, you probably think I like other Canadians too.

Where have you been?! "eh?" ;)

Offline cicada

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 22 November 2016, 12:08:01 »
Also QC is a very important point, some artisans, even well known ones forget about the small details and you get a cap that looks not finished, rough looking with dull colors and finish while in the "advertising" photos you see something totally different. This makes you feel like the maker dumps all the ... stuff on the market knowing that people will buy it anyway.
At this point this subject is a closed thing for me, if I'm lucky enough to get one more CC at a decent price for my last keyboard it's fine, otherwise I really don't need this agravation. I have joined this hobby in search of a better keyboard, found it! In the progress I've met some very nice people and that was a bonus for me, a huge one!

I agree. QC says a lot about the maker. It shows how they value their caps, whether they are work of art or just simply hobby items. Designs and colors can be judged by pictures before you make any purchase, but sometimes you can only know the actual quality of a cap if you have it in your hands.

Offline Blackehart

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 23 November 2016, 11:43:25 »
That reminds me, I need to unload my artisans...possibly even the gmk stuff that's never been opened ><'

What a waste...

 ;)

Offline katushkin

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Re: The Problem With Artisans
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 23 November 2016, 11:53:07 »
*golf clap*

Who wants to buy all my artisans?
Can we get them to build the Alps ten feet higher and get Cherry to pay for it?
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