Scam Therapy

[dgneo]

Not many scam reports of late.. seems like they've moved on from keeb.

Wish this were true, still ongoing scams:

EM.7 and Dolphin (fu Lynn)

Kira 80 (fu zfrontier)

Don't forget the Model F keyboard scam which has, since 2016, been supposedly only a few months away from delivering, and literally every single month without fail the "get your orders in by : (insert last day of current month)" as if it is any kind of deadline to pressure people who don't want to miss out, yet as recently as July they're still encouraging people to share links to get as many people in on the buy as possible (even though manufacturing is again supposedly nearly done).

except for the fact that he’s providing regular updates on his thread.

[nathanchere]

Let me take you back to January 2016:



Apparently the project was all but finalised, orders needed to be in ASAP and customers could expect boards to start arriving from April 2016!

Fast-forward to April 2016:



OK so even though production should have been well under way by now at least to the point of finalising numbers, apparently you can still order for a few more months. OK fair enough, delays happen. No major red flags at this point. But hey, last day to order is June 2016! Don't miss out!

July 2016:



Hold on, you can still get in for the 'early bird' sales? OK, good for the 'late-comers', and the good news is a lot of the molds to prepare for actual production were finished in May and June (wasn't it already pretty much ready for production before April?).

October 2016:



Soo.... the January promise of April delivery is long gone. 3 months has turned into 9 and we're still making molds? But hey good news, you don't have to miss out! You can still get your orders in by 31st October! Still on track for delivery in December...

December comes and goes... half of 2017 comes and goes... now well over a year after boards were supposed to start being delivered. No meaningful updates, no explanation what happened yet again to the last delivery timeframe, just another 'get your orders in by the end of this month!" update:



I think you get the idea by this point. It's now August 2019. 3 years of the same pattern repeating itself. Perhaps the clearest sign of bullsh*t yet:



Isn't everything manufactured already? Isn't it just assembly? And if it's taking longer because there are so many orders, so what? Should the 'early bird' orders from over 3 years ago already be getting shipped out rather than waiting for all the orders to be ready? Isn't that the point of 'early bird'? And if everything is already manufactured - why trying to 'get the word out' to as many people as possible? Just trying to take in even more money. And conveniently enough, now in August 2019:



There sure is a lot of constant playing at "Fear of Missing Out" and time pressuring ("The sooner you order, the sooner your keyboard ships!", "Make sure your order is in by x") which reek of as much credibility as someone selling into a time-share pyramid scheme. Anyone want to take bets on whether the end of August goes and magically the cut-off date for orders is now the end of September?

If these ever do actually materialise for buyers, what is the bet that preference is given to notable buyers (bloggers, youtube reviewers, forum/reddit/etc community leaders etc) but a vast majority of other buyers have other 'complications' with their orders and never see the light of day. For many, way outside the eligible period to make a claim via their credit card (and of course there was no Paypal/etc option with this).

This may have started off with good intentions but my guess would be they realised they were way out of their depth with the project, and rather than do the right thing and issue refunds, went with milking as much money as possible (making more than enough to produce some prototype material which is convincing in photo form but immune to hands-on scrutiny) before someone finally calls them on their bullsh**.

[dgneo]

Let me take you back to January 2016:

Show Image

Apparently the project was all but finalised, orders needed to be in ASAP and customers could expect boards to start arriving from April 2016!

Fast-forward to April 2016:

Show Image

OK so even though production should have been well under way by now at least to the point of finalising numbers, apparently you can still order for a few more months. OK fair enough, delays happen. No major red flags at this point. But hey, last day to order is June 2016! Don't miss out!

July 2016:

Show Image

Hold on, you can still get in for the 'early bird' sales? OK, good for the 'late-comers', and the good news is a lot of the molds to prepare for actual production were finished in May and June (wasn't it already pretty much ready for production before April?).

October 2016:

Show Image

Soo.... the January promise of April delivery is long gone. 3 months has turned into 9 and we're still making molds? But hey good news, you don't have to miss out! You can still get your orders in by 31st October! Still on track for delivery in December...

December comes and goes... half of 2017 comes and goes... now well over a year after boards were supposed to start being delivered. No meaningful updates, no explanation what happened yet again to the last delivery timeframe, just another 'get your orders in by the end of this month!" update:

Show Image

I think you get the idea by this point. It's now August 2019. 3 years of the same pattern repeating itself. Perhaps the clearest sign of bullsh*t yet:

Show Image

Isn't everything manufactured already? Isn't it just assembly? And if it's taking longer because there are so many orders, so what? Should the 'early bird' orders from over 3 years ago already be getting shipped out rather than waiting for all the orders to be ready? Isn't that the point of 'early bird'? And if everything is already manufactured - why trying to 'get the word out' to as many people as possible? Just trying to take in even more money. And conveniently enough, now in August 2019:

Show Image

There sure is a lot of constant playing at "Fear of Missing Out" and time pressuring ("The sooner you order, the sooner your keyboard ships!", "Make sure your order is in by x") which reek of as much credibility as someone selling into a time-share pyramid scheme. Anyone want to take bets on whether the end of August goes and magically the cut-off date for orders is now the end of September?

If these ever do actually materialise for buyers, what is the bet that preference is given to notable buyers (bloggers, youtube reviewers, forum/reddit/etc community leaders etc) but a vast majority of other buyers have other 'complications' with their orders and never see the light of day. For many, way outside the eligible period to make a claim via their credit card (and of course there was no Paypal/etc option with this).

This may have started off with good intentions but my guess would be they realised they were way out of their depth with the project, and rather than do the right thing and issue refunds, went with milking as much money as possible (making more than enough to produce some prototype material which is convincing in photo form but immune to hands-on scrutiny) before someone finally calls them on their bullsh**.

lol

[Sintpinty]

Let me take you back to January 2016:

Show Image

Apparently the project was all but finalised, orders needed to be in ASAP and customers could expect boards to start arriving from April 2016!

Fast-forward to April 2016:

Show Image

OK so even though production should have been well under way by now at least to the point of finalising numbers, apparently you can still order for a few more months. OK fair enough, delays happen. No major red flags at this point. But hey, last day to order is June 2016! Don't miss out!

July 2016:

Show Image

Hold on, you can still get in for the 'early bird' sales? OK, good for the 'late-comers', and the good news is a lot of the molds to prepare for actual production were finished in May and June (wasn't it already pretty much ready for production before April?).

October 2016:

Show Image

Soo.... the January promise of April delivery is long gone. 3 months has turned into 9 and we're still making molds? But hey good news, you don't have to miss out! You can still get your orders in by 31st October! Still on track for delivery in December...

December comes and goes... half of 2017 comes and goes... now well over a year after boards were supposed to start being delivered. No meaningful updates, no explanation what happened yet again to the last delivery timeframe, just another 'get your orders in by the end of this month!" update:

Show Image

I think you get the idea by this point. It's now August 2019. 3 years of the same pattern repeating itself. Perhaps the clearest sign of bullsh*t yet:

Show Image

Isn't everything manufactured already? Isn't it just assembly? And if it's taking longer because there are so many orders, so what? Should the 'early bird' orders from over 3 years ago already be getting shipped out rather than waiting for all the orders to be ready? Isn't that the point of 'early bird'? And if everything is already manufactured - why trying to 'get the word out' to as many people as possible? Just trying to take in even more money. And conveniently enough, now in August 2019:

Show Image

There sure is a lot of constant playing at "Fear of Missing Out" and time pressuring ("The sooner you order, the sooner your keyboard ships!", "Make sure your order is in by x") which reek of as much credibility as someone selling into a time-share pyramid scheme. Anyone want to take bets on whether the end of August goes and magically the cut-off date for orders is now the end of September?

If these ever do actually materialise for buyers, what is the bet that preference is given to notable buyers (bloggers, youtube reviewers, forum/reddit/etc community leaders etc) but a vast majority of other buyers have other 'complications' with their orders and never see the light of day. For many, way outside the eligible period to make a claim via their credit card (and of course there was no Paypal/etc option with this).

This may have started off with good intentions but my guess would be they realised they were way out of their depth with the project, and rather than do the right thing and issue refunds, went with milking as much money as possible (making more than enough to produce some prototype material which is convincing in photo form but immune to hands-on scrutiny) before someone finally calls them on their bullsh**.

ok

[fanpeople]

Let me take you back to January 2016:

Show Image

Apparently the project was all but finalised, orders needed to be in ASAP and customers could expect boards to start arriving from April 2016!

Fast-forward to April 2016:

Show Image

OK so even though production should have been well under way by now at least to the point of finalising numbers, apparently you can still order for a few more months. OK fair enough, delays happen. No major red flags at this point. But hey, last day to order is June 2016! Don't miss out!

July 2016:

Show Image

Hold on, you can still get in for the 'early bird' sales? OK, good for the 'late-comers', and the good news is a lot of the molds to prepare for actual production were finished in May and June (wasn't it already pretty much ready for production before April?).

October 2016:

Show Image

Soo.... the January promise of April delivery is long gone. 3 months has turned into 9 and we're still making molds? But hey good news, you don't have to miss out! You can still get your orders in by 31st October! Still on track for delivery in December...

December comes and goes... half of 2017 comes and goes... now well over a year after boards were supposed to start being delivered. No meaningful updates, no explanation what happened yet again to the last delivery timeframe, just another 'get your orders in by the end of this month!" update:

Show Image

I think you get the idea by this point. It's now August 2019. 3 years of the same pattern repeating itself. Perhaps the clearest sign of bullsh*t yet:

Show Image

Isn't everything manufactured already? Isn't it just assembly? And if it's taking longer because there are so many orders, so what? Should the 'early bird' orders from over 3 years ago already be getting shipped out rather than waiting for all the orders to be ready? Isn't that the point of 'early bird'? And if everything is already manufactured - why trying to 'get the word out' to as many people as possible? Just trying to take in even more money. And conveniently enough, now in August 2019:

Show Image

There sure is a lot of constant playing at "Fear of Missing Out" and time pressuring ("The sooner you order, the sooner your keyboard ships!", "Make sure your order is in by x") which reek of as much credibility as someone selling into a time-share pyramid scheme. Anyone want to take bets on whether the end of August goes and magically the cut-off date for orders is now the end of September?

If these ever do actually materialise for buyers, what is the bet that preference is given to notable buyers (bloggers, youtube reviewers, forum/reddit/etc community leaders etc) but a vast majority of other buyers have other 'complications' with their orders and never see the light of day. For many, way outside the eligible period to make a claim via their credit card (and of course there was no Paypal/etc option with this).

This may have started off with good intentions but my guess would be they realised they were way out of their depth with the project, and rather than do the right thing and issue refunds, went with milking as much money as possible (making more than enough to produce some prototype material which is convincing in photo form but immune to hands-on scrutiny) before someone finally calls them on their bullsh**.

 :))

[tp4tissue]

Let me take you back to January 2016:

Show Image

Apparently the project was all but finalised, orders needed to be in ASAP and customers could expect boards to start arriving from April 2016!

Fast-forward to April 2016:

Show Image

OK so even though production should have been well under way by now at least to the point of finalising numbers, apparently you can still order for a few more months. OK fair enough, delays happen. No major red flags at this point. But hey, last day to order is June 2016! Don't miss out!

July 2016:

Show Image

Hold on, you can still get in for the 'early bird' sales? OK, good for the 'late-comers', and the good news is a lot of the molds to prepare for actual production were finished in May and June (wasn't it already pretty much ready for production before April?).

October 2016:

Show Image

Soo.... the January promise of April delivery is long gone. 3 months has turned into 9 and we're still making molds? But hey good news, you don't have to miss out! You can still get your orders in by 31st October! Still on track for delivery in December...

December comes and goes... half of 2017 comes and goes... now well over a year after boards were supposed to start being delivered. No meaningful updates, no explanation what happened yet again to the last delivery timeframe, just another 'get your orders in by the end of this month!" update:

Show Image

I think you get the idea by this point. It's now August 2019. 3 years of the same pattern repeating itself. Perhaps the clearest sign of bullsh*t yet:

Show Image

Isn't everything manufactured already? Isn't it just assembly? And if it's taking longer because there are so many orders, so what? Should the 'early bird' orders from over 3 years ago already be getting shipped out rather than waiting for all the orders to be ready? Isn't that the point of 'early bird'? And if everything is already manufactured - why trying to 'get the word out' to as many people as possible? Just trying to take in even more money. And conveniently enough, now in August 2019:

Show Image

There sure is a lot of constant playing at "Fear of Missing Out" and time pressuring ("The sooner you order, the sooner your keyboard ships!", "Make sure your order is in by x") which reek of as much credibility as someone selling into a time-share pyramid scheme. Anyone want to take bets on whether the end of August goes and magically the cut-off date for orders is now the end of September?

If these ever do actually materialise for buyers, what is the bet that preference is given to notable buyers (bloggers, youtube reviewers, forum/reddit/etc community leaders etc) but a vast majority of other buyers have other 'complications' with their orders and never see the light of day. For many, way outside the eligible period to make a claim via their credit card (and of course there was no Paypal/etc option with this).

This may have started off with good intentions but my guess would be they realised they were way out of their depth with the project, and rather than do the right thing and issue refunds, went with milking as much money as possible (making more than enough to produce some prototype material which is convincing in photo form but immune to hands-on scrutiny) before someone finally calls them on their bullsh**.

I thought this buy was over and done with .. People still didn't get their boards yet ? EN MASS non receipt or is it like 10-20% left ?

[nathanchere]

I thought this buy was over and done with .. People still didn't get their boards yet ? EN MASS non receipt or is it like 10-20% left ?[/size][/color][/font]

As far as I'm aware it's still 100% non-receipt. To their credit, tying a factory up for 3 1/2 years with alleged ongoing production and assembly is pretty impressive.

[Kavik]

I thought this buy was over and done with .. People still didn't get their boards yet ? EN MASS non receipt or is it like 10-20% left ?[/size][/color][/font]

As far as I'm aware it's still 100% non-receipt. To their credit, tying a factory up for 3 1/2 years with alleged ongoing production and assembly is pretty impressive.

Yes, it's still 100% non-receipt.

My understanding and impression of the whole thing is that he got scammed out of some money for the project (he wrote a blog post about it) because someone impersonated him to the factory or something, but he waited several months - until he got that resolved - to tell anyone, probably because everyone would have flipped **** and demanded refunds which he wouldn't have been able to provide. My impression is that there have been a lot of complications, which have increased the cost of the project beyond what he charged (like the aforementioned scam, his extreme pickiness in parts QA, and also redesigning the case from milled aluminum to cast zinc after the GB started), hence why he keeps the early bird round open (to be able to keep cashflow until R2 when prices increase). I feel he's had to be very careful with his presentation of information since people are generally very reactionary. I understand why some people think it's shady, but, given the press he's received for the project, the length of the project, and the updates with pictures of machinery and keyboard parts (not to mention showing up to KB meetups), I believe he really is working on it, but it was just much harder than he'd anticipated. The perpetually rolling order cutoff date is annoying though. I fell for it myself almost three years ago.

[1391401]

I bought in towards the end of 2018 because of FOMO (I believe at the time there was messaging on the site about closing orders).  Not quite three years though.  Anyway I feel good about the buy still due only to the amount of updates and progress I can see on the website (assuming it is real).  I don't really care if it takes a long time as long as the delivered product is right.  It reminds me of some of the deskthority buys which took forever but due to the transparency and frequency of updates never left me wondering and always delivered.  TBH I'd rather be waiting like this than deal with some of the lizard people here on GH who refuse to answer a simple question like "what is the status of my order" 5 years after I paid...

[Sintpinty]

Feel so bad for y'all.

Aliexpress is most reliable.

[fanpeople]

Feel so bad for y'all.

Aliexpress is most reliable.

Don't know if tp'd post or srs.

[nathanchere]

Imagine my surprise....

https://imgur.com/nFEjKGz

[Wildcard]

Let me take you back to January 2016:

Show Image

Apparently the project was all but finalised, orders needed to be in ASAP and customers could expect boards to start arriving from April 2016!

Fast-forward to April 2016:

Show Image

OK so even though production should have been well under way by now at least to the point of finalising numbers, apparently you can still order for a few more months. OK fair enough, delays happen. No major red flags at this point. But hey, last day to order is June 2016! Don't miss out!

July 2016:

Show Image

Hold on, you can still get in for the 'early bird' sales? OK, good for the 'late-comers', and the good news is a lot of the molds to prepare for actual production were finished in May and June (wasn't it already pretty much ready for production before April?).

October 2016:

Show Image

Soo.... the January promise of April delivery is long gone. 3 months has turned into 9 and we're still making molds? But hey good news, you don't have to miss out! You can still get your orders in by 31st October! Still on track for delivery in December...

December comes and goes... half of 2017 comes and goes... now well over a year after boards were supposed to start being delivered. No meaningful updates, no explanation what happened yet again to the last delivery timeframe, just another 'get your orders in by the end of this month!" update:

Show Image

I think you get the idea by this point. It's now August 2019. 3 years of the same pattern repeating itself. Perhaps the clearest sign of bullsh*t yet:

Show Image

Isn't everything manufactured already? Isn't it just assembly? And if it's taking longer because there are so many orders, so what? Should the 'early bird' orders from over 3 years ago already be getting shipped out rather than waiting for all the orders to be ready? Isn't that the point of 'early bird'? And if everything is already manufactured - why trying to 'get the word out' to as many people as possible? Just trying to take in even more money. And conveniently enough, now in August 2019:

Show Image

There sure is a lot of constant playing at "Fear of Missing Out" and time pressuring ("The sooner you order, the sooner your keyboard ships!", "Make sure your order is in by x") which reek of as much credibility as someone selling into a time-share pyramid scheme. Anyone want to take bets on whether the end of August goes and magically the cut-off date for orders is now the end of September?

If these ever do actually materialise for buyers, what is the bet that preference is given to notable buyers (bloggers, youtube reviewers, forum/reddit/etc community leaders etc) but a vast majority of other buyers have other 'complications' with their orders and never see the light of day. For many, way outside the eligible period to make a claim via their credit card (and of course there was no Paypal/etc option with this).

This may have started off with good intentions but my guess would be they realised they were way out of their depth with the project, and rather than do the right thing and issue refunds, went with milking as much money as possible (making more than enough to produce some prototype material which is convincing in photo form but immune to hands-on scrutiny) before someone finally calls them on their bullsh**.

Wow I've really been out of the loop on a lot. So these Type F remakes haven't been delivered to anyone yet? That's really sad.

[dgneo]

Let me take you back to January 2016:

Show Image

Apparently the project was all but finalised, orders needed to be in ASAP and customers could expect boards to start arriving from April 2016!

Fast-forward to April 2016:

Show Image

OK so even though production should have been well under way by now at least to the point of finalising numbers, apparently you can still order for a few more months. OK fair enough, delays happen. No major red flags at this point. But hey, last day to order is June 2016! Don't miss out!

July 2016:

Show Image

Hold on, you can still get in for the 'early bird' sales? OK, good for the 'late-comers', and the good news is a lot of the molds to prepare for actual production were finished in May and June (wasn't it already pretty much ready for production before April?).

October 2016:

Show Image

Soo.... the January promise of April delivery is long gone. 3 months has turned into 9 and we're still making molds? But hey good news, you don't have to miss out! You can still get your orders in by 31st October! Still on track for delivery in December...

December comes and goes... half of 2017 comes and goes... now well over a year after boards were supposed to start being delivered. No meaningful updates, no explanation what happened yet again to the last delivery timeframe, just another 'get your orders in by the end of this month!" update:

Show Image

I think you get the idea by this point. It's now August 2019. 3 years of the same pattern repeating itself. Perhaps the clearest sign of bullsh*t yet:

Show Image

Isn't everything manufactured already? Isn't it just assembly? And if it's taking longer because there are so many orders, so what? Should the 'early bird' orders from over 3 years ago already be getting shipped out rather than waiting for all the orders to be ready? Isn't that the point of 'early bird'? And if everything is already manufactured - why trying to 'get the word out' to as many people as possible? Just trying to take in even more money. And conveniently enough, now in August 2019:

Show Image

There sure is a lot of constant playing at "Fear of Missing Out" and time pressuring ("The sooner you order, the sooner your keyboard ships!", "Make sure your order is in by x") which reek of as much credibility as someone selling into a time-share pyramid scheme. Anyone want to take bets on whether the end of August goes and magically the cut-off date for orders is now the end of September?

If these ever do actually materialise for buyers, what is the bet that preference is given to notable buyers (bloggers, youtube reviewers, forum/reddit/etc community leaders etc) but a vast majority of other buyers have other 'complications' with their orders and never see the light of day. For many, way outside the eligible period to make a claim via their credit card (and of course there was no Paypal/etc option with this).

This may have started off with good intentions but my guess would be they realised they were way out of their depth with the project, and rather than do the right thing and issue refunds, went with milking as much money as possible (making more than enough to produce some prototype material which is convincing in photo form but immune to hands-on scrutiny) before someone finally calls them on their bullsh**.

Wow I've really been out of the loop on a lot. So these Type F remakes haven't been delivered to anyone yet? That's really sad.

you can actually go to the model f thread and read all the updates yourself, instead of making an uninformed post here, like the asshat you quoted.

[romevi]

It's not a scam. The guy has been providing updates the whole time and showing pictures of the progress. The only fault he has it putting dates on things; he should just say "TBA."

[demik]

Can’t believe epzy never got his boards. But sadly I’m not surprised.

[nathanchere]

Wow I've really been out of the loop on a lot. So these Type F remakes haven't been delivered to anyone yet? That's really sad.

Correct. Award for most creative interpretation of "early bird" goes to...
Contrary to the throwaway comments from the asshat a few posts above, nothing has been delivered now 3 1/2 years after supposed delivery date of the original group buy, and still taking orders.

[dgneo]

Wow I've really been out of the loop on a lot. So these Type F remakes haven't been delivered to anyone yet? That's really sad.

Correct. Award for most creative interpretation of "early bird" goes to...
Contrary to the throwaway comments from the asshat a few posts above, nothing has been delivered now 3 1/2 years after supposed delivery date of the original group buy, and still taking orders.

[1391401]

got an update two days ago about the model f keyboards being ready to ship https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog/

[cicada]

nickheller brought me here

[epicfacethe3rd]

>buy lennyface/meme text themed keycaps through Massdrop
>zero mention of any plan to have backlit/doubleshot caps in the future
>buy them as a compromise
>wait
>Massdrop releases identical keycaps but backlit and doubleshot
>my non backlit caps haven't even shipped yet but i can't get out of the groupbuy
>cry over spilled milk
>Massdrop releases custom ultralight geared kylmit made sleeping pad for like $100
>buy it
>pad that is half the weight and cost with much better features announced a week after first group buy ends
>mildly flip my **** this time

granted i got what i bought, but it's still scummy in both cases. that's not what took the cake though

>take a deep breath and justify the $200 or so I've wasted on massdrop so far with this having happened several times now
>decide to wait and watch massdrop for about 3 months to see what happens
>watch them do this with literally everything they sell over and over
literally never buying anything through them again. jfc what a joke. can't believe they have a sponsor spot with LTT still

[nathanchere]

Now over 4 years late, despite in December last year proudly announcing "NOW SHIPPING! Brand New Model F Keyboards" (total shipped at that point: one, yes, 1 - way to clickbait), still haven't even fulfilled 'earlybird' orders from 2016 yet, still taking more orders 'get them in by end of this month! No really this time!' (for literally around the 50th time now):


With an additional 4 years to get things right, still problems with warped keys, non-functioning keys, dodgy springs (after making a big deal at one point about part of the delay being sourcing custom springs and taking dozens of samples to get them perfect), requiring the few delivered to mess around with firmware flashing to fix debounce issues etc, and first models being predominantly sent out to reviewers or high profile like Notch... I could see Hanlon's razor applying for the most part but not with the continued blatant dodginess about the 'early bird' round and 'get your orders in by {insert end of this month}' for 4 years running. Still smells like an elaborate grift.

[dgneo]

Now over 4 years late, despite in December last year proudly announcing "NOW SHIPPING! Brand New Model F Keyboards" (total shipped at that point: one, yes, 1 - way to clickbait), still haven't even fulfilled 'earlybird' orders from 2016 yet, still taking more orders 'get them in by end of this month! No really this time!' (for literally around the 50th time now):

Show Image

With an additional 4 years to get things right, still problems with warped keys, non-functioning keys, dodgy springs (after making a big deal at one point about part of the delay being sourcing custom springs and taking dozens of samples to get them perfect), requiring the few delivered to mess around with firmware flashing to fix debounce issues etc, and first models being predominantly sent out to reviewers or high profile like Notch... I could see Hanlon's razor applying for the most part but not with the continued blatant dodginess about the 'early bird' round and 'get your orders in by {insert end of this month}' for 4 years running. Still smells like an elaborate grift.

and yet he's still shipping orders, still providing support, still posting here

not a scam, for the second time.

[tp4tissue]

and yet he's still shipping orders, still providing support, still posting here

not a scam, for the second time.

It's very likely the project will be abandoned at this point.

It's not an intentional scam, but the incompetence in this case will likely generate an identical conclusion.

[noisyturtle]

Got a job offer that seemed promising, but turned out to be money laundering for a crypto currency trader.

[tp4tissue]

Got a job offer that seemed promising, but turned out to be money laundering for a crypto currency trader.

get'n on the ground floor, gotta hustle.

[dgneo]

and yet he's still shipping orders, still providing support, still posting here

not a scam, for the second time.

It's very likely the project will be abandoned at this point.

It's not an intentional scam, but the incompetence in this case will likely generate an identical conclusion.

have you followed the thread at all? lol

[SixtyLife]

and yet he's still shipping orders, still providing support, still posting here

not a scam, for the second time.

It's very likely the project will be abandoned at this point.

It's not an intentional scam, but the incompetence in this case will likely generate an identical conclusion.

have you followed the thread at all? lol

talking out of his ass

[tp4tissue]

have you followed the thread at all? lol

Don't need to, eventually, he'll get tired and bored. It's already clear he doesn't know what he's doing.  Drag this out long enough, he'll throw in the towel.

[SixtyLife]

have you followed the thread at all? lol

Don't need to, eventually, he'll get tired and bored. It's already clear he doesn't know what he's doing.  Drag this out long enough, he'll throw in the towel.

while you were spending every day of the past 4 years ****posting incessantly on geekhack, ellipse recreated and is mass producing kishsavers and F77s from scratch. every single piece from springs to barrels to pcb to case to keycaps completely from scratch.

what the hell are you talking about "he doesn't know what he's doing"?

[tp4tissue]

ellipse recreated and is mass producing kishsavers and F77s from scratch. every single piece from springs to barrels to pcb to case to keycaps completely from scratch.

what the hell are you talking about "he doesn't know what he's doing"?

Going from idea to concept to prototype is one thing, then make hundreds, then managing the producer, leveraging them, making sure they deliver.  He's missing a few steps.

This is not something that should take 4 years.  If you wanted a keyboard, even from scratch,  from concept to tap-out should be ~ 1-2 months from any medium size oem.

I hope it all goes well, and this is not a reflection on his character, but it really seems he's bitten off way too much. In that way one can say it may have been a bit irresponsible to take in funding when his ability to deliver timely isn't there. The crowd is essentially funding an education process for him, be that as it may, 4 years guys, it should not be this long.


To be clear, I'm not saying he's a bad guy, or at all hope the project fails, but 4 years to make a keyboard, I used a harsh word to describe the situation yes.

[dgneo]

ellipse recreated and is mass producing kishsavers and F77s from scratch. every single piece from springs to barrels to pcb to case to keycaps completely from scratch.

what the hell are you talking about "he doesn't know what he's doing"?

Going from idea to concept to prototype is one thing, then make hundreds, then managing the producer, leveraging them, making sure they deliver.  He's missing a few steps.

This is not something that should take 4 years.  If you wanted a keyboard, even from scratch,  from concept to tap-out should be ~ 1-2 months from any medium size oem.

I hope it all goes well, and this is not a reflection on his character, but it really seems he's bitten off way too much. In that way one can say it may have been a bit irresponsible to take in funding when his ability to deliver timely isn't there. The crowd is essentially funding an education process for him, be that as it may, 4 years guys, it should not be this long.


To be clear, I'm not saying he's a bad guy, or at all hope the project fails, but 4 years to make a keyboard, I used a harsh word to describe the situation yes.

holy **** you're delusional, aren't you?

[tp4tissue]

holy **** you're delusional, aren't you?

Apparently yes

[nathanchere]

While I would disagree with the "from concept to tap-out should be ~ 1-2 months from any medium size oem" part, it's otherwise fair enough. Delays happen but my biggest beef is the continual and intentionally misleading/deceptive behaviour. Even now there are still people expressing FOMO over the 'end of month' deadline which I imagine is precisely the point of it, and the 'earlybird' round is still open despite being more than 4 years late for delivery. When asked what the end of month deadline means, "I've answered that before" -  gee thanks! Where? What answer?

[tp4tissue]

While I would disagree with the "from concept to tap-out should be ~ 1-2 months from any medium size oem" part, it's otherwise fair enough. Delays happen but my biggest beef is the continual and intentionally misleading/deceptive behaviour. Even now there are still people expressing FOMO over the 'end of month' deadline which I imagine is precisely the point of it, and the 'earlybird' round is still open despite being more than 4 years late for delivery. When asked what the end of month deadline means, "I've answered that before" -  gee thanks! Where? What answer?

We can't say it is deceptive, I think that's been the biggest beef here in the discussion.

It's not deceptive, and ellipse is NOT a villain.

However, the part that seems unfair to the buyer is that, his capabilities were not entirely transparent.

If anyone asked for money,  for a keyboard to be delivered in 4 years, would you give him the money, probably not.

We would say in this situation, it's a bit irresponsible for ellipse to be asking that of the customer.

Someone else, whoever is capable of delivering faster on some other project should get our dollars instead.  This who-ever, is a more efficient investment.

Not a bad guy, as far as we know, not a scammer.

Given the internet, probably anyone can build a house.  But how do we decide who builds house, the guy who's never built a house before ?

So, let's say some guy really wants to build a house, OK, does he go directly to get customers ?  No, he shouldn't.   He should either take trades-school or join up in a construction crew.  THEN, in a couple years, when he can efficiently build a house, THEN he engages with customers.

That is how Every real business works.

[nathanchere]

We will have to agree to disagree on the details.

[HoffmanMyster]

ellipse recreated and is mass producing kishsavers and F77s from scratch. every single piece from springs to barrels to pcb to case to keycaps completely from scratch.

what the hell are you talking about "he doesn't know what he's doing"?

Going from idea to concept to prototype is one thing, then make hundreds, then managing the producer, leveraging them, making sure they deliver.  He's missing a few steps.

This is not something that should take 4 years.  If you wanted a keyboard, even from scratch,  from concept to tap-out should be ~ 1-2 months from any medium size oem.

I hope it all goes well, and this is not a reflection on his character, but it really seems he's bitten off way too much. In that way one can say it may have been a bit irresponsible to take in funding when his ability to deliver timely isn't there. The crowd is essentially funding an education process for him, be that as it may, 4 years guys, it should not be this long.


To be clear, I'm not saying he's a bad guy, or at all hope the project fails, but 4 years to make a keyboard, I used a harsh word to describe the situation yes.

tp... Just, no... I can't even muster the strength to properly respond.  But no, it's not that easy to reverse engineer a decades-old keyboard with the precision required for an insanely attentive and picky (rightfully so, honestly) customer base. 

[fohat.digs]

I can't even muster the strength to properly respond.

For reasons, mostly money, I have not gotten into this thing personally, but to a mostly disinterested outsider it seems strange.

Aren't these things being manufactured (as opposed to hand-built)? It seems like they have been trickling out at a very slow rate for months now.
If the components are available, why not ship them?

Or is this just round after round of prototyping?

PS - I ignore the proper thread because il looks like an infinite wall of TL;DR

[HoffmanMyster]

Or is this just round after round of prototyping?

Basically yes - lots of prototyping and fine-tuning things to perfection (there was a bit of a debacle about the spring sound, for example).  I'm sure we could all imagine a scenario where the process went faster and smoother, but that's just not how real life works, and working in manufacturing I can certainly understand how it goes.  Maybe you need to drop a supplier and start over with another, machines break, quality issues, etc.  We are talking about building components that haven't been manufactured in decades, and the knowledge and experience to produce the parts doesn't get any easier just because someone else has done it at some point in the past.

To be perfectly clear, I'm also not in the GB - felt a bit too risky for me at the time - so I'm also coming at this from a healthily skeptical perspective.  My comment was less of an endorsement (though everything I've read has been positive with no major red flags to me), and more to counter tp's comment that it was a scam because it is taking so long.

[tp4tissue]

to counter tp's comment that it was a scam because it is taking so long.

Tp4 has not at any point said it was a Scam. Tp4 only spoke as to the lack of competence / ability to deliver this project timely.  Finally, Tp4 has also said, the LONGER investors/ buyers let people run these projects, the more likely they're abandoned.

[HoffmanMyster]

to counter tp's comment that it was a scam because it is taking so long.

Tp4 has not at any point said it was a Scam. Tp4 only spoke as to the lack of competence / ability to deliver this project timely.  Finally, Tp4 has also said, the LONGER investors/ buyers let people run these projects, the more likely they're abandoned.

This is true, my quoted comment was not entirely fair to your initial criticism.  I do still think you were a bit too hard on him, and actually I would say that my confidence in the buy has only grown over time given how active and responsive Ellipse is.

[Maledicted]

I stumbled upon this at random. I have an F77, but only because I got lucky and found it on Ebay. I'm typing on it right now. It is wonderful. The only thing I wish was better was the really thin black usb cable that snakes through a hole in the case. The one that I ordered on the official website, even though I went for a low serial number, and unprinted caps, is still somewhere out in the ether in terms of shipping date.

[HoffmanMyster]

I stumbled upon this at random. I have an F77, but only because I got lucky and found it on Ebay. I'm typing on it right now. It is wonderful. The only thing I wish was better was the really thin black usb cable that snakes through a hole in the case. The one that I ordered on the official website, even though I went for a low serial number, and unprinted caps, is still somewhere out in the ether in terms of shipping date.

Have you opened it up?  Depending on how it was converted to USB, it may be as simple as unplugging an internal Micro USB plug and swapping the cable.  That's how xwhatsit's controller board works, which is what I use in my F62 and F107. 

[Maledicted]

I stumbled upon this at random. I have an F77, but only because I got lucky and found it on Ebay. I'm typing on it right now. It is wonderful. The only thing I wish was better was the really thin black usb cable that snakes through a hole in the case. The one that I ordered on the official website, even though I went for a low serial number, and unprinted caps, is still somewhere out in the ether in terms of shipping date.

Have you opened it up?  Depending on how it was converted to USB, it may be as simple as unplugging an internal Micro USB plug and swapping the cable.  That's how xwhatsit's controller board works, which is what I use in my F62 and F107.

It is probably hard to see in my profile picture, but I actually drilled the hole out large enough to glue a GX12 aviator socket in its place, and made a corresponding cable for it with some gray paracord to match.





Is your F62 original? I wish I could find an F107. Orihalcon says he has some, but he hasn't responded for a week.

[1391401]

My model F arrived today - super excited!

[Maledicted]

My model F arrived today - super excited!

Enjoy. You're going to love it. 

[nathanchere]

Just gonna leave this here...  )

[tp4tissue]

So.... is it or isn't it a scam ?