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Offline vivalarevolución

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Mini PCs
« on: Wed, 11 May 2016, 20:14:45 »
Anyone enamored by these mini PCs, like the Intel NUC or Compute Stick?  I think they are incredibly cute, more than anything.  I know you can get more power for the money.   But you'll have trouble matching the size.  And most of the mini PCs are laptops without keyboards, trackpad, screen and battery.  But let's be honest, are any of us using the screen, keyboard, and trackpad on a laptop, anyways?
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Offline slip84

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 11 May 2016, 20:19:34 »
Bought a NUC a month or so ago. Older version. It's my living room / kitchen computer. Using it at the moment.

For basic utility, it's great. Paid $270 for a complete setup, so bang for the buck was decent (i5, 8 GB RAM, 120 GB m2 SSD).

I'm pretty hot for this one: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/change-the-game-with-nuc.html

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 11 May 2016, 20:40:03 »
too underpowered to use at length


With 4k Incoming, basically You have to have something that has hardware accelerated h265 decoding.

4k H265 is too processor intensive for cpu decoding..



Nothing on the market currently has guaranteed support

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 11 May 2016, 20:43:35 »
Mini-ITX or MATX is about as small as I can reasonably go.

Still, so much nicer than the 40-120 pound behemoths from years past.
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Offline jchan94

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 11 May 2016, 23:27:21 »
I've used a chromebox and installed ubuntu onto it and it's super slow. Using an i5 with basic usage including chrome, spotify with 8gbs of ram and 32GB m2 SSD

I have seen the NUC have some great performance upgrades, but it's really limited at the CPU.

I've seen a lot of NUC's being praised for being able to install OS X(hackintosh), which I think is a great value add IMHO. They're definitely great propositions for a "living room" pc, or a "behind the monitor" setup.

Here's a video on a hackintosh nuc

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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 07:25:14 »
too underpowered to use at length


With 4k Incoming, basically You have to have something that has hardware accelerated h265 decoding.

4k H265 is too processor intensive for cpu decoding..



Nothing on the market currently has guaranteed support

I use Linux, which does not really jive with 4K.  So that doesn't matter for me.

Bought a NUC a month or so ago. Older version. It's my living room / kitchen computer. Using it at the moment.

For basic utility, it's great. Paid $270 for a complete setup, so bang for the buck was decent (i5, 8 GB RAM, 120 GB m2 SSD).

I'm pretty hot for this one: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/change-the-game-with-nuc.html

Yea, that Skull Canyon Nuc is pretty sexy.
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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 07:40:39 »
I've used a chromebox and installed ubuntu onto it and it's super slow. Using an i5 with basic usage including chrome, spotify with 8gbs of ram and 32GB m2 SSD

I have seen the NUC have some great performance upgrades, but it's really limited at the CPU.

I've seen a lot of NUC's being praised for being able to install OS X(hackintosh), which I think is a great value add IMHO. They're definitely great propositions for a "living room" pc, or a "behind the monitor" setup.

Here's a video on a hackintosh nuc


Yea, the Chromeboxes never got my blood flowing, they only seem appropriate for plugging into a TV for media consumption and minimal multitasking.

The NUCs definitely have more power, although, I agree the CPU limitations have held me back from actually purchasing one to use.  I can get so much more value with other options.
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Offline SBJ

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 07:59:16 »
I'll be getting a few  raspberri pi 3 for the new house we're moving into.
I know I need at least 2 to hook up to our tv's.
Maybe one or two for other fun projects.

edit: I've used a Shuttle I think it was an X2, it's dated now, but I found it quite useful for smaller tasks, put some Linux on there and it'll do a few things at least.
NUC's I would love to get but a bit too pricey and what I need can be done with Raspberri Pi's

Offline dgneo

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 08:05:09 »
Using an Intel NUC at work for one of our Lobby TVs. Works great, and small form-factor is awesome, we've got it Velcro'd to the back of the TV.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 10:25:34 »
I have been using an EeeBox for years. It has the size of the smallest mini-ITX machines but it isn't. It fits a SD card reader and a DVD-drive which new machines don't come with.

Now I want a more powerful machine, but I really don't want something that is much bigger. I got a Jonsbo mini-ITX case -  but it reminds me more of a fridge than anything else.
I came up with this mini-ITX layout that I am going to try to scratch-build a case for. Half the size of a Silverstone RVZ01/ML07/FTZ01, about the same footprint as the stand of the EeeBox but higher. (Render by Necere of NCASE fame. Thread on Hardforum).
136935-0

I think that the future is not with either mini-ITX nor NUC but with something more well-designed and sized in-between.

BTW. I don't like how Intel's marketing is dishonest with the specs for the CPUs that are in the NUCs.
A "Core i7" in the U or M series is NOT a hyperthreaded quad-core like in a regular desktop but a four-thread dual-core chip like a desktop "i3". My mom's i3 micro-tower is a few times bigger than a NUC, sure, but it was also cheaper.
Nvidia does the same thing with their "mobile" GPUs: a 980M is less powerful than a desktop 970 but not as bad as a desktop 960. Then I see machines with a "960A"... wth is that?
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 May 2016, 11:31:45 by Findecanor »

Offline demik

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 10:32:30 »
I have a corsair 350D and I wish I had the patience to build something smaller. I saw a ton of small cases at dreamhack that looked cool as hell.
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Offline Air tree

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 12:28:45 »
N-Case best case


Offline gohono3

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 15:43:00 »
The mini PC's are exciting, but aren't powerful enough to replace any of my hardware. 

My most recent build used a Corsair 250D, but I'm building a HTPC/work station half that size in the $300-$500 budget range next.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 17:16:50 »
I have a corsair 350D and I wish I had the patience to build something smaller. I saw a ton of small cases at dreamhack that looked cool as hell.
You don't need patience, just a change in how you look at your computer, I used to HATE small cases, no room to work in them. However the loss of DVD roms made me realize something, a lot of the space in my computers was taken up by the drive bays, which I was using less and less often. It drives me nuts seeing all these new, massive cases being released with tons of drive bays, that few use anymore. Luckily this way of thinking is changing, but slowly.

So I did this.
This has a raid ssd* tucked under the graphics card and a dual 120mm water cooling system. I paid $29 for the case, it had a full mesh front (with filter). I only left the upper drive cage to hide wires (non-modular power supply at the time this was taken), the rest of the drive cage was removed for video card and radiator clearance. 
136948-0

As you can see, it's very easy to work in, there's no wires running everywhere in the way and everything stays cool. To remove the cage, I drilled out 3 rivets. For the radiator, I did cut part of the front, but it took like 10 minutes with a Dremel and drilled two more mounting holes (the case was meant for a single 120mm fan). I spend 30 seconds hiding wires (it's good enough). It runs cool, I can overclock just fine, and it's the easiest case I've owned to work on, especially the easiest watercooled. Ignore the fans, they were what I had laying around and since this sits in the basement on a shelf, I don't care, they were quiet, decent flow and available for free.

136950-1

Storage? While I could easily bolt a drive to the bottom of my case, I use a file server. It too sits inside an identical MATX box, and while it does have the drive cages, it doesn't have a graphics card to get in the way. I prefer the file server simply because I can turn off my high power desktop and still access files on my laptop. I also offload drive imaging (work), backups, downloads, remote access and more to the server, leaving my desktop free. I can rebuild, change OS, or simply turn it off and still have access to all my files. It uses 15-25 watts when idle (never standby), 40-45 when working, compared to my desktop (120 idle, 200 when working, 400 when gaming). I bought the processor, the rest was spare parts, it paid for itself with power savings in less than a year and made things so much easier. I'm going shrink it in half soon and cut the power in half.


* I made my own version of this to hold the drives, eventually buying one when companies started making them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kingwin-Dual-Bay-PCI-E-HDD-Bracket-For-2-5inch-IDE-SATA-HDD-SSD-KW-PCI2H25-/390853038839?hash=item5b00a812f7:g:YXIAAOxyBvZTQ6is
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 17:19:23 »
IMHO the best case is one of those steam machine cases with the Horizontal riser card for the Pcie graphics card..

silverstone rvz02


Offline demik

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 17:25:08 »
I have a corsair 350D and I wish I had the patience to build something smaller. I saw a ton of small cases at dreamhack that looked cool as hell.
You don't need patience, just a change in how you look at your computer, I used to HATE small cases, no room to work in them. However the loss of DVD roms made me realize something, a lot of the space in my computers was taken up by the drive bays, which I was using less and less often. It drives me nuts seeing all these new, massive cases being released with tons of drive bays, that few use anymore. Luckily this way of thinking is changing, but slowly.

So I did this.
This has a raid ssd* tucked under the graphics card and a dual 120mm water cooling system. I paid $29 for the case, it had a full mesh front (with filter). I only left the upper drive cage to hide wires (non-modular power supply at the time this was taken), the rest of the drive cage was removed for video card and radiator clearance. 
(Attachment Link)

As you can see, it's very easy to work in, there's no wires running everywhere in the way and everything stays cool. To remove the cage, I drilled out 3 rivets. For the radiator, I did cut part of the front, but it took like 10 minutes with a Dremel and drilled two more mounting holes (the case was meant for a single 120mm fan). I spend 30 seconds hiding wires (it's good enough). It runs cool, I can overclock just fine, and it's the easiest case I've owned to work on, especially the easiest watercooled. Ignore the fans, they were what I had laying around and since this sits in the basement on a shelf, I don't care, they were quiet, decent flow and available for free.

(Attachment Link)

Storage? While I could easily bolt a drive to the bottom of my case, I use a file server. It too sits inside an identical MATX box, and while it does have the drive cages, it doesn't have a graphics card to get in the way. I prefer the file server simply because I can turn off my high power desktop and still access files on my laptop. I also offload drive imaging (work), backups, downloads, remote access and more to the server, leaving my desktop free. I can rebuild, change OS, or simply turn it off and still have access to all my files. It uses 15-25 watts when idle (never standby), 40-45 when working, compared to my desktop (120 idle, 200 when working, 400 when gaming). I bought the processor, the rest was spare parts, it paid for itself with power savings in less than a year and made things so much easier. I'm going shrink it in half soon and cut the power in half.


* I made my own version of this to hold the drives, eventually buying one when companies started making them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kingwin-Dual-Bay-PCI-E-HDD-Bracket-For-2-5inch-IDE-SATA-HDD-SSD-KW-PCI2H25-/390853038839?hash=item5b00a812f7:g:YXIAAOxyBvZTQ6is

350D is pretty small. Or at least it's waaaaaaay smaller than the HAF 932 I had (what a horribly ugly case.. what the hell was i thinking). But I'm trying to move away from rectangular tall cases, even 350D tall and more into stuff like what Air Tree posted. But from the few I saw up close at the LAN, they seem like such a hassle to work on. Even mounting this corsair hydro w/e cooler was a bit of a pain in the ass.
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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 12 May 2016, 19:36:12 »
I have a corsair 350D and I wish I had the patience to build something smaller. I saw a ton of small cases at dreamhack that looked cool as hell.

I love as small as possible, but my mini itx build does get a little annoying at time.  Things are tight, to say the least.


BTW. I don't like how Intel's marketing is dishonest with the specs for the CPUs that are in the NUCs.
A "Core i7" in the U or M series is NOT a hyperthreaded quad-core like in a regular desktop but a four-thread dual-core chip like a desktop "i3". My mom's i3 micro-tower is a few times bigger than a NUC, sure, but it was also cheaper.
Nvidia does the same thing with their "mobile" GPUs: a 980M is less powerful than a desktop 970 but not as bad as a desktop 960. Then I see machines with a "960A"... wth is that?

Truth in marketing?  Come on now, that's asking for a lot!

IMHO the best case is one of those steam machine cases with the Horizontal riser card for the Pcie graphics card..

silverstone rvz02

Show Image


Nice, that is slick.
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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 14 May 2016, 16:52:24 »
So my computer's motherboard is dead.  So should I buy a new motherboard, or just sell all the components for what I can get and buy a Mini PC?
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 14 May 2016, 17:19:28 »
First, check if there is warranty that could give you a new motherboard.
Next, it depends on the value of the other components: not just the cost of a new motherboard vs. price of NUC - resell price of components, but also of the value of the components for you.
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 May 2016, 17:24:02 by Findecanor »

Offline mauri

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 15 May 2016, 06:14:12 »
IMHO the best case is one of those steam machine cases with the Horizontal riser card for the Pcie graphics card..

silverstone rvz02

Show Image


to be fair the thermals aren't all that great. ncase m1 is amazing, it's quite a bit more but it'll fit a custom loop if need be.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 15 May 2016, 06:26:05 »
IMHO the best case is one of those steam machine cases with the Horizontal riser card for the Pcie graphics card..

silverstone rvz02

Show Image


to be fair the thermals aren't all that great. ncase m1 is amazing, it's quite a bit more but it'll fit a custom loop if need be.

Rvz02 is fit for water as well, but you may need to bolt those radiators externally.

It still looks really cool even with external radiators..

Offline mauri

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 15 May 2016, 07:25:42 »
IMHO the best case is one of those steam machine cases with the Horizontal riser card for the Pcie graphics card..

silverstone rvz02

Show Image


to be fair the thermals aren't all that great. ncase m1 is amazing, it's quite a bit more but it'll fit a custom loop if need be.

Rvz02 is fit for water as well, but you may need to bolt those radiators externally.

It still looks really cool even with external radiators..

you'd have the dremel holes for the tubes as well. a bit too DIY. also i'm pretty sure there's no room for a loop, i mean i can barely shut the mobo side panel with three hard drives.

it still looks *****in though.
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 15 May 2016, 14:59:47 »
you'd have the dremel holes for the tubes as well. a bit too DIY.
If you use a short GPU you could put a 120 radiator next to it, or even a 240 if you don't use a GPU.
The idiot at Awesomesauce Network did that in his Node 202, but he cut the cross brace-wall between the chambers with a hacksaw to get the tubes through ... while the electronic components were in the case, without any protection.

By the way, by cutting the cross brace off he also reduced the rigidity of the case. The cross brace is in two parts: one of which is removable, attached with a bolt. It might have been better to make an opening between the two parts  for putting the tubes through.

People have been able to put a AIO cooler on top of the motherboard in the slightly thicker RVZ01/FTZ01/ML07.
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 May 2016, 15:07:28 by Findecanor »

Offline Perfex

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 02:06:10 »
I think Lian-Li has the best options for mini itx builds, and their new wall mountable lines are stunning.

I built a few TU-100's & TU 200's for some friends and you can pack quite a powerful system is such a small form factor, personally I chose the TU-300 and I have the best of both power and portability.

As for the NUC's I think they are just fine for the older generation that primarily plays facebook games, but for many tasks they are just too limited.
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 May 2016, 03:02:00 by Perfex »

Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 07:06:24 »
Back in 2008 I built this little thing. Pico-ITX motherboard in an old Gamecube shell running some flavour of Linux I can't remember. At the time it did fine for what I needed; light browsing and Openoffice. I don't use it now of course as I have far outgrown the capabilities of this machine. It was a fun project.


Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 14:20:28 »
Back in 2008 I built this little thing. Pico-ITX motherboard in an old Gamecube shell running some flavour of Linux I can't remember. At the time it did fine for what I needed; light browsing and Openoffice. I don't use it now of course as I have far outgrown the capabilities of this machine. It was a fun project.

Show Image


Fun! What brand of motherboard did you use?  The options for anything smaller than mini it seem very limited.
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Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 23:10:44 »
It was a Pico-ITX from Via. I think the idea was pretty much born and died with that board. They were hard to get and the daughterboard with extra ports was even more rare, here at least. Pretty limited, but it was a fun project. I think what we have now is so much better due to Mini-ITX being an actually supported standard.

Offline demik

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 00:02:46 »
Back in 2008 I built this little thing. Pico-ITX motherboard in an old Gamecube shell running some flavour of Linux I can't remember. At the time it did fine for what I needed; light browsing and Openoffice. I don't use it now of course as I have far outgrown the capabilities of this machine. It was a fun project.

Show Image


this is cool as hell
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Offline SBJ

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 03:54:04 »
Back in 2008 I built this little thing. Pico-ITX motherboard in an old Gamecube shell running some flavour of Linux I can't remember. At the time it did fine for what I needed; light browsing and Openoffice. I don't use it now of course as I have far outgrown the capabilities of this machine. It was a fun project.

Show Image

That's adorable!

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 17:19:37 »
It was a Pico-ITX from Via. I think the idea was pretty much born and died with that board. They were hard to get and the daughterboard with extra ports was even more rare, here at least. Pretty limited, but it was a fun project. I think what we have now is so much better due to Mini-ITX being an actually supported standard.

Yea, I think the Via brand is about the only brand I've found for Pico ITX, they are still selling.  It seems they only come with an embedded processor:  http://www.viatech.com/en/boards/pico-itx/

I don't know enough about processors and motherboard form factors to know if a Pico ITX board can come WITHOUT an embedded processor.
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Offline mrhead

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 16 June 2016, 09:41:03 »
I have the DC3217IYE from a few years ago.  It's got the i3, 8gb ddr3, 240gb SSD, and it gets HOT.  I even installed it in the Silverstone Tek case and it was definitely not helping.  I hadn't tried doing anything other than browsing and tinkering with it until I threw minecraft on it for my 7 year old to play.  In about 5 minutes minecraft just kind of froze.

I definitely don't recommend them without some ITX sized case, and at least a good cooling system.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 17 June 2016, 01:13:55 »
There were a few manufacturers of "STX" (5×5 inch, 13×13 cm) form factor at Computex recently. Socketed CPU, SoDIMMs. The port assignments have not been standardized by Intel, but a few manufacturers have gone together and made I/O plates for the ports on the back.

I am holding off my mini-ITX build until I have got some more info on the Gigabyte BRIX Gaming UHD. Really silly name, but I do like the form factor: A short tower, with a 11×11 cm base. Skylake-U Core i7 and ... a MXM graphics card slot.
It is supposed to be introduced at the end of the month.

Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 17 June 2016, 13:58:18 »
I'm in the same boat as OP. I've been looking into getting an miniPC mostly to use as an HTPC - play hi-res movies run kodi/basic browsing. That being said I still can't decide on what to get. Part of me just says get an Nvidia Shield for the 4k playback, but I don't know...


I used a Raspi B+ with kodi which worked, though it could lag sometimes.

Have a Pine64 but have been thoroughly disappointed with its performance while running remix OS.

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 29 June 2016, 10:47:28 »
I did end up just buying another motherboard for my mini itx build rather than purchase a Mini PC.  Gigabyte this time.  Noticeably better than the Asrock motherboard that died on me.  Probably will never buy another Asrock motherboard, just feels like a discount brand.
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 June 2016, 19:47:49 by vivalarevolución »
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline SBJ

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 29 June 2016, 11:31:00 »
I did end up just buying another motherboard for my mini itx build rather than purchase a Mini PC.  Gigabyte this time.  Noticeably better than the Aaron motherboard that died on me.  Probably will never buy another asrock motherboard, just feels like a discount brand.
Well it is. They're usually pretty dependable though.

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Mini PCs
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 29 June 2016, 19:48:56 »
I did end up just buying another motherboard for my mini itx build rather than purchase a Mini PC.  Gigabyte this time.  Noticeably better than the Aaron motherboard that died on me.  Probably will never buy another asrock motherboard, just feels like a discount brand.
Well it is. They're usually pretty dependable though.

Well, it probably was operator error, but it's easier to blame the motherboard.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing