THOCK-THOCK-THOCK!

[iri]

picked up my new realforce today. feels meh, but what a sound! THOCK-THOCK-THOCK!

[sth]

is 2013 the new year of topre?

cause i'm stoked

[Halverson]

is 2013 the new year of topre?

cause i'm stoked

Snake skin topre!

[iri]

and seriously, this is a soft landing? my cm pro with thin and firm o-rings has the same "softness".

[sth]

and seriously, this is a soft landing? my cm pro with thin and firm o-rings has the same "softness".

wait are you telling me a keyboard with rubber bits is similarly soft to another keyboard with rubber bits?

[longweight]

Do you mean the THOCK as the key travels back up?

[iri]

and seriously, this is a soft landing? my cm pro with thin and firm o-rings has the same "softness".

wait are you telling me a keyboard with rubber bits is similarly soft to another keyboard with rubber bits?

also they both have cords. doesn't justify 2.5x price tag difference.

Do you mean the THOCK as the key travels back up?

it bottoms out with a thock.

[rootwyrm]

Do you mean the THOCK as the key travels back up?

it bottoms out with a thock.

Dude, you should've just bought a GoW set from T for your QFR. I'd say use the Chicony ridic-thick double-shots, but they proved to be way too heavy. (1x's weren't coming back up!) But moderately thick PBT just completely changes the character and sound of the QFR.
Plus it costs way less than an overpriced rubber dome Topre.

[longweight]

and seriously, this is a soft landing? my cm pro with thin and firm o-rings has the same "softness".

wait are you telling me a keyboard with rubber bits is similarly soft to another keyboard with rubber bits?

also they both have cords. doesn't justify 2.5x price tag difference.

Do you mean the THOCK as the key travels back up?

it bottoms out with a thock.

Strange, do they have a metal plate?

[iri]

Dude, you should've just bought a GoW set from T for your QFR. I'd say use the Chicony ridic-thick double-shots, but they proved to be way too heavy. (1x's weren't coming back up!) But moderately thick PBT just completely changes the character and sound of the QFR.

i don't own a qfr (it's a qf pro) and dislike printed keycaps. and qf pro. will sell it as soon as possible.

an overpriced rubber dome

striking is not really necessary lol

[longweight]

Do you mean the THOCK as the key travels back up?

it bottoms out with a thock.

Dude, you should've just bought a GoW set from T for your QFR. I'd say use the Chicony ridic-thick double-shots, but they proved to be way too heavy. (1x's weren't coming back up!) But moderately thick PBT just completely changes the character and sound of the QFR.
Plus it costs way less than an overpriced rubber dome Topre.

I bet that you haven't tried Topre for more than a day.

[whiskerBox]

Ah the thock noise

[Michael]

For the topre haters: A Topre switch is every bit as mechanical as a Cherry MX switch, and here is why -

Both use a spring (Topre rubber) to determine the weight of the switch, and both slide up and down within a plastic housing, with a plastic slider.

/thread

[daerid]

I've found the HHKB has more of a "thock". The RF's plate dampens quite a bit of noise.

[Michael]

I've found the HHKB has more of a "thock". The RF's plate dampens quite a bit of noise.

The 55g definitely 'thocks', but a more solid one from the plate. The HHKB reverbs through the hollow plastic shell, whereas the metal plate gives the RF's a different auditory feedback (thock-ping?).

[alaricljs]

Both use a spring to determine the weight of the switch, and both slide up and down within a plastic housing, with a plastic slider.

The spring in a Topre is not used to change weight.  Variable weight Topre's have different thickness rubber domes, and some with holes punched through if I remember right.  The spring is for the sensing circuit only.

[SmallFry]

PING!

[iri]

Both use a spring to determine the weight of the switch

topre switch spring is 5gf, the switch itself (in my keyboard) is 45gf.

[Michael]

Both use a spring to determine the weight of the switch

topre switch spring is 5gf, the switch itself (in my keyboard) is 45gf.

The rubber, actually (I guess you can call that the switch).

[Michael]

Both use a spring to determine the weight of the switch, and both slide up and down within a plastic housing, with a plastic slider.

The spring in a Topre is not used to change weight.  Variable weight Topre's have different thickness rubber domes, and some with holes punched through if I remember right.  The spring is for the sensing circuit only.

I stand corrected - but with an aside that the rubber acts as the spring, so essentially, pretty much the same

[iri]

can't put an equality sign between rubber domes and springs. domes have an initial resistance and collapse once it's passed. springs behave differently.

[Michael]

can't put an equality sign between rubber domes and springs. domes have an initial resistance and collapse once it's passed. springs behave differently.

I wasn't putting an equality sign, merely stating that Topre uses the rubber as the 'spring' (corrected there) to determine the weight. Physics aside, they both do the same job, essentially.

[iri]

heh, are membrane keyboards mechanical then? they use domes as springs.

[Michael]

heh, are membrane keyboards mechanical then? they use domes as springs.

They don't use plastic sliders and housings, or springs for that matter, like topres do.....(the same as Cherry switches)

[jdcarpe]

For the topre haters: A Topre switch is every bit as mechanical as a Cherry MX switch, and here is why -

Both use a spring (Topre rubber) to determine the weight of the switch, and both slide up and down within a plastic housing, with a plastic slider.

/thread

For some people, Topre is the ultimate keyboarding experience. They experience the oneness of cup rubber.

For others, the Topre doesn't feel much different than the hated cheap rubber dome keyboards they used before.

Of course the Topre is mechanical. But its tactile feeling comes from the rubber cup (dome) being compressed. It feels totally different from a Cherry MX or Alps switch.

I tried the Topre boards for more than a week. I went back to Cherry MX switches. That's just personal preference. Hell, I used to love my buckling springs, and I hardly use them now, simply because I prefer how MX switches feel.

And anyway, by your definition, all rubber dome keyboards are mechanical also, due to the mechanical action of the plunger compressing a rubber dome on the membrane to come into contact with the pads that completes the electrical circuit.

I don't hate Topre. I just prefer MX.

[iri]

i've had an old AT membrane keyboard which used plastic sliders. it had a nicer landing feel than this realforce lol

[Michael]

And anyway, by your definition, all rubber dome keyboards are mechanical also, due to the mechanical action of the plunger compressing a rubber dome on the membrane to come into contact with the pads that completes the electrical circuit.

Wrong. There are two major components that don't exist in a rubber dome, that I have already stated: Plastic housing + slider + spring.

[Michael]

i've had an old AT membrane keyboard which used plastic sliders. it had a nicer landing feel than this realforce lol

Sounds like you are just trolling now. If you don't like RF/Topre, don't use it.

[daerid]

but you already said the rubber acts as a spring. And I've used plenty of boards that had plastic housings and sliders.

[SmallFry]

And anyway, by your definition, all rubber dome keyboards are mechanical also, due to the mechanical action of the plunger compressing a rubber dome on the membrane to come into contact with the pads that completes the electrical circuit.

Wrong. There are two major components that don't exist in a rubber dome, that I have already stated: Plastic housing + slider + spring.

Have you seen a Peerless? Spring, slider, and rubber domes.

[Michael]

but you already said the rubber acts as a spring. And I've used plenty of boards that had plastic housings and sliders.

What RD has it's own separate plastic housing, spring and slider? The only one closest to a topre has been the BTC-5100C.

[absyrd]

To the OP... give it more than a day... say a week or two. If you aren't happy with it then, you'll fall right in with numerous people who just don't like Topre. You don't HAVE to love it.

[Michael]

To the OP... give it more than a day... say a week or two. If you aren't happy with it then, you'll fall right in with numerous people who just don't like Topre. You don't HAVE to love it.

This. From the previous posts, I think he already falls into that category. I expect to see his board in classifieds soon

[daerid]

Wait.... so you're saying the sole thing that separates a mechanical switch from a non-mechanical is a plastic housing that isn't part of the larger board?

dafuq?

[Michael]

Have you seen a Peerless? Spring, slider, and rubber domes.

Example? I guess we can kick this stupid subject around for days - so what is your reference as a definition of a 'mechanical' switch? Do you consider a buckling spring (which primarily uses a spring for force and tactility) more 'mechanical' than a cherry mx? When most of the components that make up a cherry mx switch are existent in a topre switch (sans rubber), why do you not consider it to be mechanical?

[Michael]

Wait.... so you're saying the sole thing that separates a mechanical switch from a non-mechanical is a plastic housing that isn't part of the larger board?

dafuq?

Jesus christ dude... did you even read the 3 components that I mentioned, or are you just picking out parts of my posts? LOL

Also, see my previous post to this.

[iri]

To the OP... give it more than a day... say a week or two. If you aren't happy with it then, you'll fall right in with numerous people who just don't like Topre. You don't HAVE to love it.

This. From the previous posts, I think he already falls into that category. I expect to see his board in classifieds soon

i already heard absyrd's advice. actually the board is nice, the only thing that i don't like is bottom out feel. and selling the board in classifieds is kinda difficult for me since i live in russia. last time i sent a package to usa via regular mail, they charged me $60, and it was amazon kindle in the parcel... mailing a topre board will cost even more.

[Michael]

i already heard absyrd's advice. actually the board is nice, the only thing that i don't like is bottom out feel. and selling the board in classifieds is kinda difficult for me since i live in russia. last time i sent a package to usa via regular mail, they charged me $60, and it was amazon kindle in the parcel... mailing a topre board will cost even more.

How long have you actually been using it? I can't say it will get much better if your joints are experiencing pain. As I said in the other post, it could be arthritis (usually associated with joint pain).
If that is the case, then sticking with it isn't going to change much for you.

[SmallFry]

Peerless switch.

[Michael]

Show Image

Peerless switch.

Doesn't really tell, or show me much. All the old references to that switch from Google are gone on GH. I believe they were Ripster's posts.

(also, you didn't answer the question :P )

[SmallFry]

http://imgur.com/a/Uivuc
Ripster still has his imgur account. Ripster.imgur.com

[Michael]

So to re-iterate; I asked what defines a 'mechanical' switch versus a rubber dome? I see some people discounting Topre as mechanical, and want to know what the basis for that is.

[SmallFry]

I'd say anything that isn't a touch screen is, technically, mechanical. On our site here, typically if it has a spring, it is 'mechanical'. So to each their own on interpreting that. Rubber domes are a typical term associated with crappy keyboards, though there are nice RD keyboards, such as a Dell QuietKey or (in some opinions) Topre.

[Michael]

I'd say anything that isn't a touch screen is, technically, mechanical. On our site here, typically if it has a spring, it is 'mechanical'. So to each their own on interpreting that. Rubber domes are a typical term associated with crappy keyboards, though there are nice RD keyboards, such as a Dell QuietKey or (in some opinions) Topre.

So since Topres contain a spring, that makes them mechanical, right?

[longweight]

All keyboards are mechanical really, you have to physically move the key cap down to compress a switch or spring to make the key register.

[SmallFry]

I never argued the weren't. On this site, they are treated as such though, yes. I honestly could care less what they're technically considered. If you enjoy typing on them, then type on them. )

All keyboards are mechanical really, you have to physically move the key cap down to compress a switch or spring to make the key register.

More or less what I was trying to say before. Thanks mate.

[alaricljs]

This discussion has happened many times... the only answer everyone agreed on was that touch screens are indeed not mechanical keyboards.

[Michael]

All keyboards are mechanical really, you have to physically move the key cap down to compress a switch or spring to make the key register.

I think it's what makes up that switch that is in debate. Some rubber domes are only a rubber membrane underneath the key. No spring or even housing. Just plain mush.

[SmallFry]

All keyboards are mechanical really, you have to physically move the key cap down to compress a switch or spring to make the key register.

I think it's what makes up that switch that is in debate. Some rubber domes are only a rubber membrane underneath the key. No spring or even housing. Just plain mush.

Not always mush though. See a vintage QuietKey or Olleveti (I butchered that spelling, sorry)dome keyboard.

[longweight]

True but it's still mechanical


Does anyone really care? It's probably best to define the boards by the switch type as Bro Caps said, MX, Topre, Alps, Chiclet, BS or Rubberdome.

[alaricljs]

scissor, buckling rubber sleeve, and on and on...

[SmallFry]

I can had all zee keybardz! NOM NOM NOM

[longweight]

Exactly, define it buy it's mechanical movement as that is the only differentiation between them.

[aviphysics]

I'd say anything that isn't a touch screen is, technically, mechanical. On our site here, typically if it has a spring, it is 'mechanical'. So to each their own on interpreting that. Rubber domes are a typical term associated with crappy keyboards, though there are nice RD keyboards, such as a Dell QuietKey or (in some opinions) Topre.

So since Topres contain a spring, that makes them mechanical, right?

The switch in a Topre key is capacitive. There is no mechanical connection so it is not mechanical, unless you think putting a spring and cup rubber on top of a capacitive sensor makes it mechanical

[longweight]

I'd say anything that isn't a touch screen is, technically, mechanical. On our site here, typically if it has a spring, it is 'mechanical'. So to each their own on interpreting that. Rubber domes are a typical term associated with crappy keyboards, though there are nice RD keyboards, such as a Dell QuietKey or (in some opinions) Topre.

So since Topres contain a spring, that makes them mechanical, right?

The switch in a Topre key is capacitive. There is no physical connection so it is not mechanical, unless you think putting a spring and cup rubber on top of a capacitive sensor makes it mechanical

There is a solid mechanical connection between finger, keycap, dome, spring and PCB when the key is depressed so there most certainly is a mechanical connection.

[aviphysics]

I'd say anything that isn't a touch screen is, technically, mechanical. On our site here, typically if it has a spring, it is 'mechanical'. So to each their own on interpreting that. Rubber domes are a typical term associated with crappy keyboards, though there are nice RD keyboards, such as a Dell QuietKey or (in some opinions) Topre.

So since Topres contain a spring, that makes them mechanical, right?

The switch in a Topre key is capacitive. There is no physical connection so it is not mechanical, unless you think putting a spring and cup rubber on top of a capacitive sensor makes it mechanical

There is a solid mechanical connection between finger, keycap, dome, spring and PCB when the key is depressed so there most certainly is a mechanical connection.

Does that mean a touchscreen is a mechanical switch?

[iri]

why did i even start this thread?..

[Binge]

why did i even start this thread?..

I'm sorry.. we all make grievous errors from time to time

[longweight]

I'd say anything that isn't a touch screen is, technically, mechanical. On our site here, typically if it has a spring, it is 'mechanical'. So to each their own on interpreting that. Rubber domes are a typical term associated with crappy keyboards, though there are nice RD keyboards, such as a Dell QuietKey or (in some opinions) Topre.

So since Topres contain a spring, that makes them mechanical, right?

The switch in a Topre key is capacitive. There is no physical connection so it is not mechanical, unless you think putting a spring and cup rubber on top of a capacitive sensor makes it mechanical

There is a solid mechanical connection between finger, keycap, dome, spring and PCB when the key is depressed so there most certainly is a mechanical connection.

Does that mean a touchscreen is a mechanical switch?

No as there is no mechanical movement just the capactive screen sensing your finger.

[aviphysics]

I'd say anything that isn't a touch screen is, technically, mechanical. On our site here, typically if it has a spring, it is 'mechanical'. So to each their own on interpreting that. Rubber domes are a typical term associated with crappy keyboards, though there are nice RD keyboards, such as a Dell QuietKey or (in some opinions) Topre.

So since Topres contain a spring, that makes them mechanical, right?

The switch in a Topre key is capacitive. There is no physical connection so it is not mechanical, unless you think putting a spring and cup rubber on top of a capacitive sensor makes it mechanical

There is a solid mechanical connection between finger, keycap, dome, spring and PCB when the key is depressed so there most certainly is a mechanical connection.

Does that mean a touchscreen is a mechanical switch?

No as there is no mechanical movement just the capactive screen sensing your finger.

My finger and the air around it have a mechanical movement and the screen makes a mechanical thumping sound when my finger hits it. Not only that, but there is a subtle change in the mechanical flow of electrons. Therefore, by your definition it is mechanical. Of course by your definition, everything is mechanical so we might as well just burn the word.

[Binge]

We didn't start the fire... 

[OnTheBrink]

Funny because noone argues about which Cherry MX switch is best. They will just all resort to "it's a matter of preference". But when it comes to MX vs. Topre it's like atheism vs theology.

He'll if you prefer rubberdome and its cost effectiveness, it's a matter of preference. There is no one better than the other.

Edit: I'm still yet to try Topre. However, it is impossible to know if you like something based on one day of usage. Different switches for different tasks is what I say.

[longweight]

Well that is why I am saying that mechanical is a useless term, the only clear definition is the mechanical nature of the movement.

[alaricljs]

Topre vs MX is just like Filco vs ?? - cost justification becomes part of the equation.

[hashbaz]

Like Alaric said we've had this argument many times before and the designation "mechanical" is pretty meaningless.  At the end of the day it only serves to distinguish high-quality keyboards from cheapies.

[OnTheBrink]

Topre vs MX is just like Filco vs ?? - cost justification becomes part of the equation.

Which is why I said that cost effects preference. Even if you are preferring rubberdome because of it.

[jdcarpe]

Funny because noone argues about which Cherry MX switch is best. They will just all resort to "it's a matter of preference". But when it comes to MX vs. Topre it's like atheism vs theology.

He'll if you prefer rubberdome and its cost effectiveness, it's a matter of preference. There is no one better than the other.

Edit: I'm still yet to try Topre. However, it is impossible to know if you like something based on one day of usage. Different switches for different tasks is what I say.

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

Guy 1: I don't like these Topre switches. They feel like rubber domes to me.
Guy 2: You haven't given them a chance!
Guy 1: I prefer MX switches.
Guy 2: But Topre are mechanical, too!



It's okay. Some can like Topre. I like MX. We all enjoy the keyboard hobby. We have more in common than we have differences.

[Binge]

Topre vs MX is just like Filco vs ?? - cost justification becomes part of the equation.

Which is why I said that cost effects preference. Even if you are preferring rubberdome because of it.

One day I hope programmability makes its way into the argument

Something like "well topre is a great switch, but people are making ALPs boards with 9 programmable layers 3 of which can be locked/unlocked!"

[OnTheBrink]

Funny because noone argues about which Cherry MX switch is best. They will just all resort to "it's a matter of preference". But when it comes to MX vs. Topre it's like atheism vs theology.

He'll if you prefer rubberdome and its cost effectiveness, it's a matter of preference. There is no one better than the other.

Edit: I'm still yet to try Topre. However, it is impossible to know if you like something based on one day of usage. Different switches for different tasks is what I say.

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

Guy 1: I don't like these Topre switches. They feel like rubber domes to me. They are overpriced rubber domes.
Guy 2: You haven't given them a chance!
Guy 1: I prefer MX switches.
Guy 2: But Topre are mechanical, too!



It's okay. Some can like Topre. I like MX. We all enjoy the keyboard hobby. We have more in common than we have differences.

You left out something very important that I corrected for you. (See number 1 in quote).

Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to be objective and give my two cents in a public thread. But the second you start passing judgement on someone's purchase, expect them to defend it harshly. There is a thin line between expressing your opinion and judging what someone seems worth it. And in the case of money, people WILL get offended. Especially if you are criticizing how they spend it.

[aviphysics]

Funny because noone argues about which Cherry MX switch is best. They will just all resort to "it's a matter of preference". But when it comes to MX vs. Topre it's like atheism vs theology.

He'll if you prefer rubberdome and its cost effectiveness, it's a matter of preference. There is no one better than the other.

Edit: I'm still yet to try Topre. However, it is impossible to know if you like something based on one day of usage. Different switches for different tasks is what I say.

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

Guy 1: I don't like these Topre switches. They feel like rubber domes to me. They are overpriced rubber domes.
Guy 2: You haven't given them a chance!
Guy 1: I prefer MX switches.
Guy 2: But Topre are mechanical, too!



It's okay. Some can like Topre. I like MX. We all enjoy the keyboard hobby. We have more in common than we have differences.

You left out something very important that I corrected for you. (See number 1 in quote).

Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to be objective and give my two cents in a public thread. But the second you start passing judgement on someone's purchase, expect them to defend it harshly. There is a thin line between expressing your opinion and judging what someone seems worth it. And in the case of money, people WILL get offended. Especially if you are criticizing how they spend it.

Summary of first few posts in the thread...

iri: nice sound but I don't really like the feel
rootwyrm: you should have gotten xxx keyboard instead
longweight: @rootwyrm, you haven't tried topre long enough
Bro Caps: A topre switch is every bit as mechanical.... (first time mechanical came up in thread. Mo one had mentioned dome rubber yet)
...
All down hill from here

[iri]

in my classification, mechanical keyboards are the ones that use mechanical switches.

[rootwyrm]

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

No, they defend it exactly like a religion.

*dons the colander of Pastafanariasm*

[Michael]

Not sure where this turned into 'which switch is best', but it wasn't by me. I was merely arguing the notion of whether it was mechanical or not.

[fuzzybaffy]

Funny because noone argues about which Cherry MX switch is best. They will just all resort to "it's a matter of preference". But when it comes to MX vs. Topre it's like atheism vs theology.

He'll if you prefer rubberdome and its cost effectiveness, it's a matter of preference. There is no one better than the other.

Edit: I'm still yet to try Topre. However, it is impossible to know if you like something based on one day of usage. Different switches for different tasks is what I say.

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

Guy 1: I don't like these Topre switches. They feel like rubber domes to me. They are overpriced rubber domes.
Guy 2: You haven't given them a chance!
Guy 1: I prefer MX switches.
Guy 2: But Topre are mechanical, too!



It's okay. Some can like Topre. I like MX. We all enjoy the keyboard hobby. We have more in common than we have differences.

You left out something very important that I corrected for you. (See number 1 in quote).

Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to be objective and give my two cents in a public thread. But the second you start passing judgement on someone's purchase, expect them to defend it harshly. There is a thin line between expressing your opinion and judging what someone seems worth it. And in the case of money, people WILL get offended. Especially if you are criticizing how they spend it.

Wait a sec. So are you saying, people who express their liking for Cherry MX switches are ok, but people who express their liking of Topre are "being religious"?

I'm not sure these are fair assessments here.

Also, there is a very big difference between:

1. Expressing one's opinions.
2. Purposely going into Topre discussions to discuss about Cherry MX switches.

2 is a very systematic, purposeful ribbing against Topre users. If Topre users went into threads regarding Cherry MX switches, and started bashing Cherry MX switches (which they don't), I'm user Cherry users would have a problem with that, too.

[lazerpointer]

It feels nothing like the rubber domes I have access to. Yall be trippin. Just because the switch has rubber doesn't make it a RD (bomb cost of rubber dome keyboards is what... $2-3 dollars.) It's the Bently of keyboards - some people are just happy with their ol' Toyota.

[jdcarpe]

It feels nothing like the rubber domes I have access to. Yall be trippin. Just because the switch has rubber doesn't make it a RD (bomb cost of rubber dome keyboards is what... $2-3 dollars.) It's the Bently of keyboards - some people are just happy with their ol' Toyota.

Proof that the marketing works.

[fuzzybaffy]

It feels nothing like the rubber domes I have access to. Yall be trippin. Just because the switch has rubber doesn't make it a RD (bomb cost of rubber dome keyboards is what... $2-3 dollars.) It's the Bently of keyboards - some people are just happy with their ol' Toyota.

Proof that the marketing works.

Zzzzzzzzzz.

[longweight]

Topre are better.

[lazerpointer]

Proof that the marketing works.

What marketing? You think Topre spends money on marketing? Is it the price you're referring to? If what you say has any basis at all, then if somebody gave me my 87u for free I'd be like screw that, MX is better.

[jdcarpe]

What marketing? You think Topre spends money on marketing? Is it the price you're referring to? If what you say has any basis at all, then if somebody gave me my 87u for free I'd be like screw that, MX is better.

U mad bro?

I'm glad you love your Realforce. I love my Filcos. Can I say that empirically they feel superior to a QFR or Rosewill? No. You can't exactly feel a difference in PCB design. But I would buy another Filco over a QFR or Rosewill. I have an emotional investment in the Filco, into which the price I paid for them does play a role.

You said that the Tokyo Press switch doesn't feel like any rubber dome you've ever used. Well, they sure did to me. I've owned a RF and three HHKBs at different times. So you can't say I'm just guessing how they feel. I tried them. Several times, I tried to like Topre boards. Spent lots of money doing it, and always lost some on the resell. I just prefer MX boards. You will never convince me that Topre are "better," because I have been there and done that. They may feel better to you, but not to me. Keyboard feel is subjective. What is awesome for one person, might not be for someone else.

And for the record, I never stated or restated that Topre are "overpriced rubber domes." That was someone else. I think they are very high quality, well made rubber domes. Whether they are overpriced is for each to decide on his own.

I hope you thoroughly enjoy your Topres. Really. The OP was stating his opinion that Topre don't feel great to him, and that he may have made a poor decision in purchasing the keyboard. Others of us can sympathize with that. But for you, it may be the best keyboard ever made. I don't think anyone has a problem with that.

[lazerpointer]

I was attempting to understand your marketing statement.

[uzoc]

Black Microsoft Arc! Keep going back... add large font yellow stickers (for contrast) from EBay for $5.

[SmallFry]

FWIW, I'm typing on a crappy rubber dome at the moment. Random offbrand Acer.

[Michael]

Geez - the point here was (mostly) do you consider Topre switches to be mechanical, which for the most part, they are. It's not a big dilemma. A buckling spring uses a membrane, the same as a rubber dome. But do we consider it a rubber dome? Hellz naw!

That's all I'm saying...

[aviphysics]

Funny because noone argues about which Cherry MX switch is best. They will just all resort to "it's a matter of preference". But when it comes to MX vs. Topre it's like atheism vs theology.

He'll if you prefer rubberdome and its cost effectiveness, it's a matter of preference. There is no one better than the other.

Edit: I'm still yet to try Topre. However, it is impossible to know if you like something based on one day of usage. Different switches for different tasks is what I say.

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

Guy 1: I don't like these Topre switches. They feel like rubber domes to me. They are overpriced rubber domes.
Guy 2: You haven't given them a chance!
Guy 1: I prefer MX switches.
Guy 2: But Topre are mechanical, too!



It's okay. Some can like Topre. I like MX. We all enjoy the keyboard hobby. We have more in common than we have differences.

You left out something very important that I corrected for you. (See number 1 in quote).

Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to be objective and give my two cents in a public thread. But the second you start passing judgement on someone's purchase, expect them to defend it harshly. There is a thin line between expressing your opinion and judging what someone seems worth it. And in the case of money, people WILL get offended. Especially if you are criticizing how they spend it.

Wait a sec. So are you saying, people who express their liking for Cherry MX switches are ok, but people who express their liking of Topre are "being religious"?

I'm not sure these are fair assessments here.

The difference is when Topre users express their opinion as fact. Just look at some of the comments after your post to see what I mean.

[Michael]

The difference is when Topre users express their opinion as fact. Just look at some of the comments after your post to see what I mean.

There were some points of contention, which were resolved, but nobody here was defending Topre vs MX. I was stating they ARE mechanical switches. They may have a rubber dome in them, but they are still mechanical, the same way that buckling springs have membranes. I stand by that. I never said anywhere, that Topre was better than X product.

[aviphysics]

FWIW, I'm typing on a crappy rubber dome at the moment. Random offbrand Acer.

Using a Dell RT7D50 rubber dome KB right now. My favorite keyboard until my CM QFTK gets here.

[fuzzybaffy]

Funny because noone argues about which Cherry MX switch is best. They will just all resort to "it's a matter of preference". But when it comes to MX vs. Topre it's like atheism vs theology.

He'll if you prefer rubberdome and its cost effectiveness, it's a matter of preference. There is no one better than the other.

Edit: I'm still yet to try Topre. However, it is impossible to know if you like something based on one day of usage. Different switches for different tasks is what I say.

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

Guy 1: I don't like these Topre switches. They feel like rubber domes to me. They are overpriced rubber domes.
Guy 2: You haven't given them a chance!
Guy 1: I prefer MX switches.
Guy 2: But Topre are mechanical, too!



It's okay. Some can like Topre. I like MX. We all enjoy the keyboard hobby. We have more in common than we have differences.

You left out something very important that I corrected for you. (See number 1 in quote).

Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to be objective and give my two cents in a public thread. But the second you start passing judgement on someone's purchase, expect them to defend it harshly. There is a thin line between expressing your opinion and judging what someone seems worth it. And in the case of money, people WILL get offended. Especially if you are criticizing how they spend it.

Wait a sec. So are you saying, people who express their liking for Cherry MX switches are ok, but people who express their liking of Topre are "being religious"?

I'm not sure these are fair assessments here.

The difference is when Topre users express their opinion as fact. Just look at some of the comments after your post to see what I mean.

When someone says, Topres are "overpriced rubber domes", that's not someone "expressing their opinion as fact"?

Whatever. I'm done with this argument.

I ****ing love my Topre. I'm not even compelled to diss Cherry MX switches and/or their fans, because my love for Topre is just simply a love for Topre.

If anyone compares Topre fans vs. Cherry MX fans, it's almost always Cherry fans dissing and/or talking down to Topre keyboards/fans, and rarely ever the other way around. This tells me this is an issue that lies with Cherry fans, but again, I'm done with it.

[Binge]

If anyone compares Topre fans vs. Cherry MX fans, it's almost always Cherry fans dissing and/or talking down to Topre keyboards/fans, and rarely ever the other way around. This tells me this is an issue that lies with Cherry fans, but again, I'm done with it.

You're one of the few Topre chiefs (not the only one geeze calm down) who talk about preference instead of saying "once you go Topre you never go back to white guys."

Being a white guy (racists) I cling to my more logical side to try and take the comment at a localized value.  You feel white guys just don't do it for you anymore, and the Topre is what changed things.  Changed things in a big way. 


Why don't you love me?!?!

[daerid]

Wait.... so you're saying the sole thing that separates a mechanical switch from a non-mechanical is a plastic housing that isn't part of the larger board?

dafuq?

Jesus christ dude... did you even read the 3 components that I mentioned, or are you just picking out parts of my posts? LOL

Also, see my previous post to this.

Jesus christ dude... did you even read the 3 components that I mentioned, or are you just picking out parts of my posts? LOL

Also, see my previous post to this.

Yes, I read the 3 components, and made the claim that by your own argument that the dome acts as a spring, most RD boards could be considered mechanical. Then you addressed a single component, that of a separate housing, rather than addressing all three. That led me to the conclusion that you were basing your argument on that single point.

Which is why I asked that question.

Not mad or religious about it, I love all keyboards. Was just trying to understand where you were coming from.

[daerid]

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

We wouldn't have to defend it if the people who try out Topre and don't like it wouldn't get all butt-hurt about it and attack it *cought*tp*cough* I rarely see a Topre lover come down on Cherry, but I frequently see the opposite.

[fuzzybaffy]

If anyone compares Topre fans vs. Cherry MX fans, it's almost always Cherry fans dissing and/or talking down to Topre keyboards/fans, and rarely ever the other way around. This tells me this is an issue that lies with Cherry fans, but again, I'm done with it.

You're one of the few Topre chiefs (not the only one geeze calm down) who talk about preference instead of saying "once you go Topre you never go back to white guys."

Being a white guy (racists) I cling to my more logical side to try and take the comment at a localized value.  You feel white guys just don't do it for you anymore, and the Topre is what changed things.  Changed things in a big way. 


Why don't you love me?!?!

That's what it comes down to, isn't it? Cherry users ain't got love for themselves, so they lash out on Topre users.

[jdcarpe]

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

We wouldn't have to defend it if the people who try out Topre and don't like it wouldn't get all butt-hurt about it and attack it *cought*tp*cough* I rarely see a Topre lover come down on Cherry, but I frequently see the opposite.

You have to understand, when someone drops $300 on a keyboard, just to find out it feels the same (or close to the same, anyway) as the $10 rubber dome they threw out when they discovered MX boards, they have a tendency to react by posting "Topre sucks." It may be of far superior build quality, but they can't get past the emotional barrier of feeling ripped off by spending so much on something that has a typing feel of a rubber dome.

Topre lovers, OTOH, don't have a strong emotional negativity toward MX boards, because most have progressed from RD to MX to Topre. They realize that MX boards are of a high quality (the good ones, anyway), so they don't feel like posting "MX sucks" after finding they prefer Topre.

No one is saying that Topre users are somehow less intelligent or something than MX users. But when someone has the reaction that causes them to post "Topre sucks," Topre users naturally feel slighted and rush in to defend their favorite switch. Hence this thread.

[Binge]

If anyone compares Topre fans vs. Cherry MX fans, it's almost always Cherry fans dissing and/or talking down to Topre keyboards/fans, and rarely ever the other way around. This tells me this is an issue that lies with Cherry fans, but again, I'm done with it.

You're one of the few Topre chiefs (not the only one geeze calm down) who talk about preference instead of saying "once you go Topre you never go back to white guys."

Being a white guy (racists) I cling to my more logical side to try and take the comment at a localized value.  You feel white guys just don't do it for you anymore, and the Topre is what changed things.  Changed things in a big way. 


Why don't you love me?!?!

That's what it comes down to, isn't it? Cherry users ain't got love for themselves, so they lash out on Topre users.

Dunno if its love so much as pride.

[Michael]

You have to understand, when someone drops $300 on a keyboard, just to find out it feels the same (or close to the same, anyway) as the $10 rubber dome they threw out when they discovered MX boards, they have a tendency to react by posting "Topre sucks." It may be of far superior build quality, but they can't get past the emotional barrier of feeling ripped off by spending so much on something that has a typing feel of a rubber dome.

Topre lovers, OTOH, don't have a strong emotional negativity toward MX boards, because most have progressed from RD to MX to Topre. They realize that MX boards are of a high quality (the good ones, anyway), so they don't feel like posting "MX sucks" after finding they prefer Topre.

No one is saying that Topre users are somehow less intelligent or something than MX users. But when someone has the reaction that causes them to post "Topre sucks," Topre users naturally feel slighted and rush in to defend their favorite switch. Hence this thread.

You are basing your argument on opinions, and using them as facts. Not everyone agrees as you do, that they feel like 10 dollar rubber domes. That is 100% opinion on your part.

Again, when people try to pass off their opinions as facts, you should expect them to speak up against it.

[jdcarpe]

So how do you propose we have a discussion about things as subjective as how typing on one keyboard compares to typing on another, and the emotional response people have to that feeling? It's an integral part of this discussion, but you can't exactly put numbers to it.

It sounds to me like you are trying to discount what I have said, by saying that I'm trying to pass off opinions as facts, simply because you don't agree with what I've said.

[lazerpointer]

I come here for the enthusiasm, not the hate! If you see somebody trolling, post a funny meme or something, idk 

Or choose to post snide remarks and step on people's pride (enthusiasm,) if that makes you feel better. Shows your true state of mind.

[daerid]

Gotta back my boy jd on this one. Any description of the typing experience of any keyboard will be 100% subjective. It goes without saying, meaning that when somebody says "Topre is the best.", it should be read as "Topre is the best, in my opinion". Likewise, when somebody says "Topre feels exactly like a rubber dome", it can be read as "Topre feels exactly like a rubber dome, to me."

What I think most Topre guys have a problem with is when the people who don't like Topre try go influence others who haven't formed an opinion yet into disliking Topre or not trying it out and forming their own opinion.

[Michael]

So how do you propose we have a discussion about things as subjective as how typing on one keyboard compares to typing on another, and the emotional response people have to that feeling? It's an integral part of this discussion, but you can't exactly put numbers to it.

It sounds to me like you are trying to discount what I have said, by saying that I'm trying to pass off opinions as facts, simply because you don't agree with what I've said.

It's fine to have your opinion, but again, don't pass it off as fact - like when you say "It may be of far superior build quality, but they can't get past the emotional barrier of feeling ripped off by spending so much on something that has a typing feel of a rubber dome."

That's not a fact about the keyboard, that is just your personal experience. Sorry you felt that way after dropping so much money. Topres are definitely not for you. But I definitely would never compare them to a common rubber dome. I mean, if you really sit down and place a common rubber dome and an evenly weighted topre board, and can honestly say they feel the same then more power to you. But I believe not many people would agree - whether they like or dislike topre for whatever reason.

I am not here defending Topre vs anything. But they are certainly not in the same category as a common rubber dome.

[lazerpointer]

What I think most Topre guys have a problem with is when the people who don't like Topre try go influence others who haven't formed an opinion yet into disliking Topre or not trying it out and forming their own opinion.

I'm very careful about this. When I see entry-level enthusiasts discussing MX switches I'll join the convo and discuss MX.... even mentioning Topre is in a whole different ballpark. THAT would be straight up pride and prejudice.

Looking back on my post about Topre being Bently and MX being Toyota.... I kind of regret saying that now. I guess people are really sensitive to this stuff.

Edit;
I don't wanna get my tires slashed if I go to a meet. I LOVE YOU ALL!

[sth]

I LIKE TOPRE

[daerid]

:lol:

[Michael]

I LIKE TOPRE

Show Image

[fuzzybaffy]

I ****ing love my Topre.

[aviphysics]

I ****ing love my Topre.

  I hope you clean your keyboard often. That isn't good for the dome rubber  .

[Elrick]

I ****ing love my Topre.

  I hope you clean your keyboard often. That isn't good for the dome rubber  .

Don't worry it's Japanese it can take it........

I use to be a Topre lover but now it rests back into it's box stored away for another day of possible use.  I just chose the MX as my daily driver because it's not precise, nor perfect, sometimes fails and can get annoying like a mother-in-law sitting in the back seat as you try to drive out of gangland territory.

Topre is for those that want that type of clarity, superb directness with the keys and above all else 'silence'.  The "thock, thock, thock", is your heartbeat when you narrate a story directly to screen.

I still appreciate the Realforce, you choose whether to be Obiwan or Skywalker. 

[Michael]

I hope you clean your keyboard often. That isn't good for the CUP rubber  .

FTFY

[fohat.digs]

Feedback is important.

There is an entire study of "feedback loops" with each part making its own contribution to the whole.

Tactility is invaluable in telling your brain, on a subconscious level, that "something" has happened.

Personally, I love the clicks, just because, but some level of tactility is essential.

[volatilecoffee]

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

We wouldn't have to defend it if the people who try out Topre and don't like it wouldn't get all butt-hurt about it and attack it *cought*tp*cough* I rarely see a Topre lover come down on Cherry, but I frequently see the opposite.

You have to understand, when someone drops $300 on a keyboard, just to find out it feels the same (or close to the same, anyway) as the $10 rubber dome they threw out when they discovered MX boards, they have a tendency to react by posting "Topre sucks." It may be of far superior build quality, but they can't get past the emotional barrier of feeling ripped off by spending so much on something that has a typing feel of a rubber dome.

Topre lovers, OTOH, don't have a strong emotional negativity toward MX boards, because most have progressed from RD to MX to Topre. They realize that MX boards are of a high quality (the good ones, anyway), so they don't feel like posting "MX sucks" after finding they prefer Topre.

No one is saying that Topre users are somehow less intelligent or something than MX users. But when someone has the reaction that causes them to post "Topre sucks," Topre users naturally feel slighted and rush in to defend their favorite switch. Hence this thread.

Can I base a friggin religion off of you for this? THANK YOU lol

[jdcarpe]

It's because the Topre crowd defend it like it's a religion or something.

We wouldn't have to defend it if the people who try out Topre and don't like it wouldn't get all butt-hurt about it and attack it *cought*tp*cough* I rarely see a Topre lover come down on Cherry, but I frequently see the opposite.

You have to understand, when someone drops $300 on a keyboard, just to find out it feels the same (or close to the same, anyway) as the $10 rubber dome they threw out when they discovered MX boards, they have a tendency to react by posting "Topre sucks." It may be of far superior build quality, but they can't get past the emotional barrier of feeling ripped off by spending so much on something that has a typing feel of a rubber dome.

Topre lovers, OTOH, don't have a strong emotional negativity toward MX boards, because most have progressed from RD to MX to Topre. They realize that MX boards are of a high quality (the good ones, anyway), so they don't feel like posting "MX sucks" after finding they prefer Topre.

No one is saying that Topre users are somehow less intelligent or something than MX users. But when someone has the reaction that causes them to post "Topre sucks," Topre users naturally feel slighted and rush in to defend their favorite switch. Hence this thread.

Can I base a friggin religion off of you for this? THANK YOU lol

You want to base a religion on me? Hey, THANK YOU!

You can get ordained for life at ulc.org

[sth]

Feedback is important.

There is an entire study of "feedback loops" with each part making its own contribution to the whole.

i feel like this is a big reason why unix is so daunting for a lot of people

[BucklingSpring]

I rarely see a Topre lover come down on Cherry, but I frequently see the opposite.

Topre lovers don't need to come down on Cherry simply because we are soooooooo above the Cherry crowd. No contest, no fun.
It would be like beating someone already down. :-)

T-T-T-T-Troflllllllllllling

[Sifo]

The passion from MMB. thanks for this thread guys, great read. good to see you're still around defending your Topre.

[fuzzybaffy]

I ****ing love my Topre.

[lazerpointer]

Lol.

[iri]

i see many people here having problems with topre being rubber dome and saying something like "it feels nothing like a rubber dome". bad news for you guys: it feels like a rubber dome. it is a rubber dome.

Being a white guy (racists)

hey, i'm a racist too!

[lazerpointer]

It really doesn't to me feel anything like the rubber domes at the office. Much different IMO.

[crthell]

It really doesn't to me feel anything like the rubber domes at the office. Much different IMO.

Which is precisely what matters. We're not keyboard enthusiasts because of the technology, we're keyboard enthusiasts because of the feel (and eventually the addiction.) Who gives a crap if a board is RD, scissor RD, capacitive, "mechanical," or anything else? It is all about how it feels.

[rootwyrm]

Feedback is important.

There is an entire study of "feedback loops" with each part making its own contribution to the whole.

i feel like this is a big reason why unix is so daunting for a lot of people

set PS1=`echo $?` \$

You're welcome.

[fuzzybaffy]

I love it how Iri conveniently ignores the fact that there are springs underneath each rubber cone, which add a lot to the Topre feel. And is what differentiates it from typical rubber domes.

Don't Cherry MX switches have springs, too?

I ****ing love my Topre.

[fuzzybaffy]

It's ok if you don't. But I ****ing love it.

[fuzzybaffy]

I ain't bashing Cherry switches. I'm just saying, I ****ing love my Topre.

[fuzzybaffy]

I love it.

[noisyturtle]

Filthy dome lovers.

[fuzzybaffy]

I'm not doing anything wrong. You can dislike Topre, and I can like Topre. I'm not bashing Cherry switches. I'm just saying, I really ****ing love my Topre.

[Polymer]

I love it how Iri conveniently ignores the fact that there are springs underneath each rubber cone, which add a lot to the Topre feel. And is what differentiates it from typical rubber domes.

Don't Cherry MX switches have springs, too?

I ****ing love my Topre.

It isn't just the springs..that is one aspect of Topre that makes it different than just any other rubber dome...

It is also the design the switch itself...the stability, the smoothness and the feel when it bottoms out...

Do they feel very similar to Rubber domes?  Sure..that is because a part of them IS rubber dome..but they also feel different than normal rubber domes....There are aspects that differentiate them from any normal rubber dome..

Either people get that or they don't...

[Demofly]

My first time typing on a Topre I didn't know what it was and thought it was just a normal membrane keyboard, but a nice one.

My buddy asked me how I liked it and I said it was nice. For the price I am a little baffled.

[iri]

i can't wait to the moment when people start using the word MEMBRANE to distinguish conventional rubber dome keyboards from capacitive rubber dome topre.

I love it how Iri conveniently ignores the fact that there are springs underneath each rubber cone, which add a lot to the Topre feel.

5gf springs add a lot to topre feel? surely that's news to me.

and the feel when it bottoms out...

what's so special about it? i wish it was as smooth as my microsoft-whatever membrane keyboard's.

[fuzzybaffy]

i can't wait to the moment when people start using the word MEMBRANE to distinguish conventional rubber dome keyboards from capacitive rubber dome topre.

I love it how Iri conveniently ignores the fact that there are springs underneath each rubber cone, which add a lot to the Topre feel.

5gf springs add a lot to topre feel? surely that's news to me.

and the feel when it bottoms out...

what's so special about it? i wish it was as smooth as my microsoft-whatever membrane keyboard's.

So are you telling me, what I'm experiencing and feeling with my Topre board is not really what I'm experiencing and feeling? Give me a break. The spring makes a difference in the feel. You say the spring is 5g? That's not nothing. That's the weight of a nickel. Nickels aren't weightless.

I ****ing love my Topre.

Again, you don't have to like it. But I ****ing love it. Your posts amount to nothing than trying to change other people's opinions into disliking Topre.

[iri]

So are you telling me, what I'm experiencing and feeling with my Topre board is not really what I'm experiencing and feeling?

no.

So are you telling me, what I'm experiencing and feeling with my Topre board is not really what I'm experiencing and feeling? Give me a break. The spring makes a difference in the feel. You say the spring is 5g? That's not nothing. That's the weight of a nickel. Nickels aren't weightless.

sure not weightless. but the springs are 9 times lighter than domes in my keyboard and 11 times lighter than domes in 55g. and i honestly can't feel them.

Your posts amount to nothing than trying to change other people's opinions into disliking Topre.

could you please give me a quote of my posts which could make anyone dislike topre?

[fuzzybaffy]

Like I said, you don't have to like Topre. But I ****ing love my Topre.

[iri]

You essentially told an entire group of Topre users, who say they believe Topres feel nothing like a rubber dome, that they are wrong to believe so, and that they should still see them as rubber domes.

let's put my feelings aside. could you please logically explain me, how can topres, which are rubber dome keyboards, feel nothing like rubber dome keyboards? i heard your argument about the spring which "add a lot to feel", but again, i can't logically understand how the 10% of resistance they add (in case of my keyboard) is "a lot to the feel".

[fuzzybaffy]

Your posts amount to nothing than trying to change other people's opinions into disliking Topre.

could you please give me a quote of my posts which could make anyone dislike topre?

Sure:

i see many people here having problems with topre being rubber dome and saying something like "it feels nothing like a rubber dome". bad news for you guys: it feels like a rubber dome. it is a rubber dome.

You essentially told an entire group of Topre users, who believe Topre doesn't feel like rubber domes, that they shouldn't believe that.

You don't have to like Topre. But I ****ing love my Topre.

[fuzzybaffy]

You essentially told an entire group of Topre users, who say they believe Topres feel nothing like a rubber dome, that they are wrong to believe so, and that they should still see them as rubber domes.

let's put my feelings aside. could you please logically explain me, how can topres, which are rubber dome keyboards, feel nothing like rubber dome keyboards? i heard your argument about the spring which "add a lot to feel", but again, i can't logically understand how the 10% of resistance they add (in case of my keyboard) is "a lot to the feel".

No, listen. It's all subjective. If you don't feel like the spring adds a lot to the feel, then it doesn't, for you. But to me, it does.

And that's why I ****ing love Topre.

[Polymer]

and the feel when it bottoms out...

what's so special about it? i wish it was as smooth as my microsoft-whatever membrane keyboard's.

You're saying your MS keyboard feel better when you bottom?  Obviously personal preference but Topres have a firm but not a harsh feeling when they bottom vs. a soft and mushy feeling on more normal rubber domes...

Smoothness...they are very smooth..Most rubber dome keyboards are smooth as well..but it is the combination of smoothness and stability that you don't get from normal rubber dome keys...

On the flipside, Cherry MX feel far more scratchy..I like Cherry boards as well..they feel very solid but people lube switches to get them to feel smoother...they do it because it feels better. 

I think when people first use Topre..their first reaction is...This feels more like my rubber dome keyboards than my Cherry Boards...and immediately feel that means it somehow is inferior.  Either you start noticing the differences and appreciating it or you don't....it is also why the people that don't seem to hate on Topre..they don't understand why people like it...

[iri]

jdcarpe really knew what he was talking about...

I ****ing love my Topre.

I ****ing love my Topre.

It's ok if you don't. But I ****ing love it.

I'm just saying, I ****ing love my Topre.

I'm just saying, I really ****ing love my Topre.

I ****ing love my Topre.

Again, you don't have to like it. But I ****ing love it.

And that's why I ****ing love Topre.

You don't have to like Topre. But I ****ing love my Topre.

Like I said, you don't have to like Topre. But I ****ing love my Topre.

[iri]

You're saying your MS keyboard feel better when you bottom?  Obviously personal preference but Topres have a firm but not a harsh feeling when they bottom vs. a soft and mushy feeling on more normal rubber domes...

not necessarily. i tried a colleague's compaq keyboard and it has almost the same landing feel as topre. my microsoft keyboard has a softer bottom out feel. and it sure feels better. i'd trade soft bottoming for those capacitive switches. i don't need them anyway as i always bottom out.

On the flipside, Cherry MX feel far more scratchy..I like Cherry boards as well..they feel very solid but people lube switches to get them to feel smoother...they do it because it feels better.

completely agreed.

I think when people first use Topre..their first reaction is...This feels more like my rubber dome keyboards than my Cherry Boards...and immediately feel that means it somehow is inferior.

why necessarily inferior? rubber domes have one advantage over mechanical switch: they are smooth. butter smooth. i feel that's superior. some people may not like the tactility of rubber domes though.

[Polymer]

You're saying your MS keyboard feel better when you bottom?  Obviously personal preference but Topres have a firm but not a harsh feeling when they bottom vs. a soft and mushy feeling on more normal rubber domes...

not necessarily. i tried a colleague's compaq keyboard and it has almost the same landing feel as topre. my microsoft keyboard has a softer bottom out feel. and it sure feels better. i'd trade soft bottoming for those capacitive switches. i don't need them anyway as i always bottom out.

Again, it is personal preference.  If you like the way those keyboards bottom out then that is great...for you.  If you're saying normal rubber keyboards have as firm a feeling as Topre, some are quite good, most are not the same type of feel...at least not to me...Maybe it is the stability playing a part...

I think when people first use Topre..their first reaction is...This feels more like my rubber dome keyboards than my Cherry Boards...and immediately feel that means it somehow is inferior.

why necessarily inferior? rubber domes have one advantage over mechanical switch: they are smooth. butter smooth. i feel that's superior. some people may not like the tactility of rubber domes though.

I'm not saying it is inferior...I'm saying people who first try Topre and dislike it tend to dislike it because they associate the feeling with rubber dome..and to them rubber dome = inferior...or cheap.  "I can get the same keyboard for 10 dollars".   In reality, you can't...You can get a rubber dome keyboard that will have some characteristics of Topre for 10 dollars..but it is not the same..Just because Cherry feels significantly different from rubber dome doesn't mean it is the only thing worth buying...

[iri]

I'm not saying it is inferior...I'm saying people who first try Topre and dislike it tend to dislike it because they associate the feeling with rubber dome..and to them rubber dome = inferior...or cheap.  "I can get the same keyboard for 10 dollars".   In reality, you can't...You can get a rubber dome keyboard that will have some characteristics of Topre for 10 dollars..but it is not the same.

people have to realize that rubber domes go from $5 to $800 and that absolutely means they are very different.

[alaricljs]

No, listen. It's all subjective. If you don't feel like the spring adds a lot to the feel, then it doesn't, for you. But to me, it does.

So you've pulled a Topre apart and taken out the springs and stuck it back together and typed with it to know that what you are feeling that's different is indeed the springs?  I mean, aside from the fact that it won't actually work.

[Michael]

could you please give me a quote of my posts which could make anyone dislike topre?

Most all of them.

[iri]

[iri]

for blind religious fanatics i'll repeat that i like the board besides bottom out feel. and i think i can help that issue.

[jdcarpe]

for blind religious fanatics i'll repeat that i like the board besides bottom out feel. and i think i can help that issue.

"I ****ing love my Topre." That is the mantra. Keep repeating it, silently or aloud, while using the keyboard. Eventually, it will become as truth to you.

[iri]

for blind religious fanatics i'll repeat that i like the board besides bottom out feel. and i think i can help that issue.

"I ****ing love my Topre." That is the mantra. Keep repeating it, silently or aloud, while using the keyboard. Eventually, it will become as truth to you.

still it won't help my finger ache =(

[karljs]

Why does anybody give half a damn what material is used in their switches?  The only things that matter are feel and durability.  If Topre is able to use rubber to create a long-lasting, nice-feeling key switch (and I think they do) great.  If Cherry is able to create a nice feeling key switch with springs and chunks of plastic (I think they do) then great. 

Rubber is not some cop-out, cheap material that automatically ruins a keyboard.  Just like a good beer can be brewed with the same ingredients as a terrible one.  And a beer is just what I need after bothering to respond in this embarrassing thread.

[aviphysics]

I love it how Iri conveniently ignores the fact that there are springs underneath each rubber cone, which add a lot to the Topre feel. And is what differentiates it from typical rubber domes.

Don't Cherry MX switches have springs, too?

I ****ing love my Topre.

Cherry MX switches have springs, they also have a spring that pushes the key up. Topre have a capacitive sensor. You almost can't even call it a real switch.

jdcarpe really knew what he was talking about...

I ****ing love my Topre.

I ****ing love my Topre.

It's ok if you don't. But I ****ing love it.

I'm just saying, I ****ing love my Topre.

I'm just saying, I really ****ing love my Topre.

I ****ing love my Topre.

Again, you don't have to like it. But I ****ing love it.

And that's why I ****ing love Topre.

You don't have to like Topre. But I ****ing love my Topre.

Like I said, you don't have to like Topre. But I ****ing love my Topre.

I think we should back it up with a nice THOCK! THOCK! THOCK! beat, mix it up with some Wub Wub and it would make some nice dubstep

[Michael]

Yawn.....

[jdcarpe]

I have a serious question about Topre switches, that maybe someone here can answer. I know the mechanism for actuation is capacitive, but what causes the capacitance? The metal spring coming in close proximity to the pad?

Also, a related question, is it possible, while typing normally, to actuate the switch without bottoming out? I never could achieve that with my Topre boards, I was just wondering if it was possible.

[Michael]

I have a serious question about Topre switches, that maybe someone here can answer. I know the mechanism for actuation is capacitive, but what causes the capacitance? The metal spring coming in close proximity to the pad?

Also, a related question, is it possible, while typing normally, to actuate the switch without bottoming out? I never could achieve that with my Topre boards, I was just wondering if it was possible.

As I am typing now on an HHKB, yes it is possible to actuate the switch without bottoming out. But you would really need to train your fingers for it. It just seems easier to bottom out. There are some keystrokes where I don't bottom out at times. But most of the time I do.

tl;dr - yes, it's possible

Now that I think about it, I seem to bottom out less on the 55g RF, most likely because of the higher pressure.

[o2dazone]

I have a serious question about Topre switches, that maybe someone here can answer. I know the mechanism for actuation is capacitive, but what causes the capacitance? The metal spring coming in close proximity to the pad?

Without the spring, the switch would not work

edit: this forum is far too pedantic - when i say "work" i mean the capacitive "jump" would never happen, and the key would never "fire". It will still move up and down like it should though

[daerid]

AFAIK it's due to the fact that a conical spring in the shape as those used by Topres increases in capacitance as it gets depressed and the spring coils move closer to each other.

The circuit detects when the capacitance reaches a certain threshold and then closes.

[daerid]

Wow... just caught up. People in here are getting way too uppity. Some like Topre (like me), some don't. Whatever.

For me, I love the combination of high quality rubber dome over a steel plate/PCB, which most keyboards that we label "rubber dome" don't have. Those are usually rubber dome over plastic membranes. Much more of a mushy feel. Some prefer that, most don't.

And there are some RD over membrane boards that feel crisp and buttery smooth. Probably my favorite was this bad boy right here:



That had a firm bottom-out feel due to the caps hitting the plastic base. Great board there, lasted me many years before I found mechanicals.

People are so touchy... it's obvious that iri isn't that big a fan of the bottom out feel of Topres, and that's fine. He doesn't have to. Nobody has to. I enjoy my Topre switch boards, and I don't have to tell myself that I do in order to "justify" it. I spent a lot on them, and I don't regret the purchase. There are those who might. And that's ok too. At the end of the day, we're all just fans of fine typing devices here, right?

[Michael]

Topre = Rubber Cup, not a rubber dome

[SmallFry]

This thread is crazy guise.

[fuzzybaffy]

How was I being uppity? I was just saying, I ****ing love my Topre.

[Michael]

I ****ing love my Topre.

You should make that your permanent sig in big fat bold letters for the angry anti-topre crowd....

[tp4tissue]

Topre = Rubber Cup, not a rubber dome

Dome, sorry they're identical with the exception of actuation distance...

[jwaz]

Wow... just caught up. People in here are getting way too uppity. Some like Topre (like me), some don't. Whatever.

For me, I love the combination of high quality rubber dome over a steel plate/PCB, which most keyboards that we label "rubber dome" don't have. Those are usually rubber dome over plastic membranes. Much more of a mushy feel. Some prefer that, most don't.

And there are some RD over membrane boards that feel crisp and buttery smooth. Probably my favorite was this bad boy right here:

Show Image

That had a firm bottom-out feel due to the caps hitting the plastic base. Great board there, lasted me many years before I found mechanicals.

People are so touchy... it's obvious that iri isn't that big a fan of the bottom out feel of Topres, and that's fine. He doesn't have to. Nobody has to. I enjoy my Topre switch boards, and I don't have to tell myself that I do in order to "justify" it. I spent a lot on them, and I don't regret the purchase. There are those who might. And that's ok too. At the end of the day, we're all just fans of fine typing devices here, right?

My coworker has like 20 of these things stock piled. They're his favorites.

[daerid]

How was I being uppity? I was just saying, I ****ing love my Topre.

By immediately assuming I was referring to you (which I wasn't, actually).

Topres are rubber domes. They're just exceptionally good ones (IMO). 

[Michael]

Dome, sorry they're identical with the exception of actuation distance...

But they aren't identical. That exception is the major difference, not to mention the quality and thickness/durability of the rubber.

Topre: Cup


Rubber DOME:

[tjcaustin]

You're having a disagreement with tp and trying to use words and pictures to show him that he's wrong.  You'd have better luck convincing the bro bot in your avatar that it was a new girldc Gundam cap...

[hashbaz]

Enough, guys.  Can't we all just get along and discuss the Klaxon set in peace?

[tjcaustin]

I'm much too angry for that.

Grr and stuff.

Buy moar klaxon?

[Michael]

You're having a disagreement with tp and trying to use words and pictures to show him that he's wrong.  You'd have better luck convincing the bro bot in your avatar that it was a new girldc Gundam cap...

[daerid]

[iri]

For me, I love the combination of high quality rubber dome over a steel plate/PCB

hmm, don't you like hhkb more than realforce?

Also, a related question, is it possible, while typing normally, to actuate the switch without bottoming out?

i asked the same question here once, and got a reply "no, that's not possible, but that's okay, as bottoming out on topre is nice".

[daerid]

hmm, don't you like hhkb more than realforce?

Yes, actually. I was more making a generic comparison between standard rubber domes and the RealForce breed of Topre. I still love RF's more than everything except the HHKB. Apologies.

[sth]

i can't wait to the moment when people start using the word MEMBRANE to distinguish conventional rubber dome keyboards from capacitive rubber dome topre.

uh actually iMav came up with the initialism RDOMS probably years before you were aware of topre... rubber dome over membrane switch.

the rest of you are cracking me up with how defensive you get about rubber... yes, topre is rubber dome. it feels nice. use it if you like it.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[fohat.digs]

This is degenerating into the newbie thread like:

"Just Tell Me What is the Best Keyboard So I Can Buy It"

My wife loves Apple's flat scissor keys with minimal travel, so "there is just no accounting for taste" right?

Give me a heavily-modded Model F, but that's just me.

[Michael]

yes, topre is rubber CUP. it feels nice. use it if you like it.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

FTFY




-Oneness with cup rubber

[sth]

yes, topre is CUP rubber. it feels nice. use it if you like it.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

FTFY




-Oneness with cup rubber

ftfyftfm (fixed that for you fixing that for me).

oneness!!

[iri]

enough of this