Mandalorian S2

[tp4tissue]

Not saying it's bad,

buhhh.. Does anyone feel like <much like the first season> ,  it lacks depth/complexity ?

Perhaps because it's a kid's show.

[noisyturtle]

I thought the first two episodes were fantastic. No complaints on either of them.

[DarthChrisDK]

I hear this a lot, and I see where people are coming from when they experience the show like that.

I think it's because we are used to live-action shows conforming to a specific narrative approach. The Mandalorian follows the same formula of the animated shows quite a bit.

However, I find that S2 is different from S1 in that it seems to actually be following a continuous plot development. From what I can tell, each episode so far continues directly from where the previous episode stopped. I really like that.

[tp4tissue]

I thought the first two episodes were fantastic. No complaints on either of them.

For example, episode one,   they followed a generic blow up big monsters from the inside arc, they've done it on starship troopers, deathstar, half dozen dragon movies..

[DarthChrisDK]

The show is all about the clichés. It's making no attempts at hiding that.

[Darthbaggins]

Personally I love this season as much if not more than the first season.  Love seeing the tid bits referencing back to the original movies and the animated series.

[noisyturtle]

e04 was still rad I had a good time. Sure the show is predictable, the good guy always wins, there's not a whole lot of subtext (if any) but this is to me quintessential Star Wars. This is comfort food. It's what Star Wars was before all the bull****. Simple sure, but pure and enjoyable. It's the franchise that got too big for it's britches, expanded so far it didn't know what direction to go. Mandalorian feels like it is back to basics for the franchise and I like that.

[tp4tissue]

e04 was still rad I had a good time. Sure the show is predictable, the good guy always wins, there's not a whole lot of subtext (if any) but this is to me quintessential Star Wars. This is comfort food. It's what Star Wars was before all the bull****. Simple sure, but pure and enjoyable. It's the franchise that got too big for it's britches, expanded so far it didn't know what direction to go. Mandalorian feels like it is back to basics for the franchise and I like that.

Trek Lower Decks has more depth and plot and it's way lower budget and animated.

Mandol is held back by SW+Disney's PG13 mandate. At the moment, it feels like a very expensive fetchquest.

For example, this episode, what exactly did they do, nothing right ? that whole 30 minutes, was a setup for a very basic chase/ action sequence.

[yui]

For example, this episode, what exactly did they do, nothing right ? that whole 30 minutes, was a setup for a very basic chase/ action sequence.

SPOILER!!!

[Darthbaggins]

I wouldn't call that a spoiler, that's almost something that happens in each episode, a chase or some action sequence lol.  But I still like it for what it is and I see it as a call back to its roots - I'd say that Rogue One was the slap back that started it heading back this way after the flops of the new movies (even though part of me likes them for what they are).

[yui]

i was joking about the spoiler, if someone does not want to be spoiled they should not read a tp4 rant on it anyway

[Darthbaggins]

Lol, Tp4 is a spoiler all together  )

[DarthChrisDK]

Why are we not talking about jeans guy by now?

[yui]

there is too many darth on a star wars thread, the sith are coming

[noisyturtle]

This season feels very video-gamey if ya know what I mean

it is getting a bit predictable in it's formulae though, I'll admit. In every tense situation you always know Mando And Friends™ will triumph.

The soundtrack is ****in' sick though

[jamster]

What changed between the second generation of utterly craptastic movies, and this current TV series? It's gotten okay and watchable. I totally gave up on the franchise twenty years ago because of how bad the movies had gotten, and totally stopped paying attention to Star Wars.

[Sintpinty]

Last nights episode was banger though

[tp4tissue]

I'm trying hard to like it,  I don't hate it,  it's not as awful as that startrek which dun'Exist and isn't startrek.

If they'd just do more Firefly .. sigh...

[noisyturtle]

I'm trying hard to like it,  I don't hate it,  it's not as awful as that startrek which dun'Exist and isn't startrek.

If they'd just do more Firefly .. sigh...

baby yoda is already river, you want the empire to dye their hands blue?

[tp4tissue]

baby yoda is already river, you want the empire to dye their hands blue?

Star wars is very very thin plot wise. When watching mando, there is a sense that the actors are just playing star wars, they're not in character. Starwars is just not character/ development driven. It's the minimal amount of plot to splice with action sequences.

At the end of it, you feel as if nothing actually happened.

[Darthbaggins]

I'm trying hard to like it,  I don't hate it,  it's not as awful as that startrek which dun'Exist and isn't startrek.

If they'd just do more Firefly .. sigh...

But then it would've been canceled after a season 

[tp4tissue]

But then it would've been canceled after a season 

I'd settle for 1 season of mando if it can be as quality as FIREFLY.  Then we can complain about canceled mando for the rest of our lives ontop of canceled FIREFLY.

[Findecanor]

This season feels very video-gamey if ya know what I mean

I have thought so too. And the story feels kind'a like from a comic book sometimes.

[korrelate]

I agree with Tp although I hadn't realized it - it's kind of easy to see that that's why TESB and R1 standout - they really do have thicker plots. I'm hoping they bring their a-game to ahsoka's spin-off: I like where they were going with her in clone wars though I haven't had the chance to watch anything else they've included her in.

In any event, I'm just hoping that Dune doesn't suck: I'd love to see the develop the Fremen the way they deserve to be developed

"You're tell me that a legion of Sardaukar were defeated by children and old men?" Remember how incredible you thought the Fremen were when you read that for the first time?

That and I hope that they nail down the Kynes character. I can't wait to see how they're interpreting the idea of Mentat or blue-in-blue eyes. I don't really think of Oscar Isaac as Leto but thank God they cast Drax: seriously - I think he gave an amazing performance in Blade Runner. He's going to make an incredible Rabban.

[Findecanor]

In any event, I'm just hoping that Dune doesn't suck: I'd love to see the develop the Fremen the way they deserve to be developed

Unfortunately, the movie is not of the complete book: It represents only the first half of the novel.
My prediction is that the movie is going to flop — only because nobody is going to theatres, and then the sequel (the second half of the novel) will be cancelled by stupid executives because it has "underperformed" in the box office.

(Why the Elle didn't Villeneuve shoot both movies back-to-back? ... hrmpf... )

[fantasyrunner]

I feel like as much as I loved season 1 it was very slow to get to the plot. I’m at least enjoying season 2 getting into the actual plot and not having episodes that felt like filler. Even though they were still enjoyable. Overall I’m happy with season 2

[korrelate]

In any event, I'm just hoping that Dune doesn't suck: I'd love to see the develop the Fremen the way they deserve to be developed

Unfortunately, the movie is not of the complete book: It represents only the first half of the novel.
My prediction is that the movie is going to flop — only because nobody is going to theatres, and then the sequel (the second half of the novel) will be cancelled by stupid executives because it has "underperformed" in the box office.

(Why the Elle didn't Villeneuve shoot both movies back-to-back? ... hrmpf... )

I share your concerns... when he started going off on WB a little voice in the back of my head was saying "F***, there goes the second half of the movie." And I'd be totally okay with TWO movies... I can see how the right director could make great use of that time... and hell... 4 to 6 hours of Dune in the cinema... I'd have loved every minute of it. Fingers Crossed, though, that it gets made anyway.

[noisyturtle]

I thought they were for sure going to have another episode next week when people are home for Christmas but it looks like tomorrow's the season finale

They pumped this season out blazing fast so we'll maybe even see s03 by Summer?

[Leslieann]

Season 3 is a year away (December 2021), as confirmed by IMDB and post credit footage, which you want to be sure to watch.

As for tonight...
Wow, one of the best episodes of the entire series and a great way to end the season.

[Findecanor]

Two words: Fan Service ...

I had been hoping for one more season, with the end of that having what happened in this episode, but I suppose that there won't be a third one.
Rumour has it that Pedro Pascal had been difficult to work with, so I suspect that it could have been cut short for that reason.
Disney also has a bucketload of other "Star Wars" series in the pipe that they could replace that with...

MacClunky!

[noisyturtle]

That's the thing they don't need Pedro for the part at all. Anyone can wear a helmet, he potentially ****ed himself out of the role of a lifetime.

[noisyturtle]

I love how they call midichlorians an M-count now because no one in the SW universe wants to utter that word.

The ending was really circlejerky I felt like I was getting a digital handy. A full circle in character linage as well.

Looking forward to the edgier season 3

[Sintpinty]

Good season but me want more

[Leslieann]

Two words: Fan Service ...

A bit, but who else was going to come? If you understand the timeline, there's very, very few Jedi left, almost all of which were dead and or/old or hiding. Luke was about the only one capable or willing to train anyone at that point. Luke was pretty much the only logical choice by then.

The ending was really circlejerky I felt like I was getting a digital handy. A

This for sure.
For Luke, I'd rather they do what they did than use someone else (it was Hamil), but the animation on those robots and the excuses for how they operate was not well done.

[noisyturtle]

Ha yeah the Dark Troopers were so slow, like a bunch of Jason Voorhees basically. The human element was the last remaining weakness, yet they are dumb as bolts and move at the pace of a combine harvester. The assassin droid from the episode with tentacle-hair orange lady seemed more effective.

[Findecanor]

Two words: Fan Service ...

A bit, but who else was going to come? If you understand the timeline, there's very, very few Jedi left, almost all of which were dead and or/old or hiding.

I was also thinking of a familiar droid, and the after-credits scene ...

[Leslieann]

I was also thinking of a familiar droid, and the after-credits scene ...

You can't have a Skywalker story without that droid, who do you think documented and is telling the Skywalker story.

[yqqdrasil]

I'm not super invested in it, never really been a diehard Star Wars fan so I won't be too sad if it doesn't get renewed.

You can definitely feel the PG rating with the dialogue. Still an entertaining show I looked forward to watching every week.

But does anyone else think that the puppeteering of Grogu is terrible?

[phinix]

I'm going to watch ALL Star Wars movies this Christmas.
In what order should I watch them?
I mean like all SW, those new ones (rogue, solo etc) and Mandalorian.
IV,V,VI
I,II,III
VII,VIII,IX
Rogue One
Solo
Mandalorian?

I've only seen IV,V,VI and VII.

[Findecanor]

I'm going to watch ALL Star Wars movies this Christmas.
In what order should I watch them?

I would suggest that you don't. Not all "Star Wars" movies are Star Wars movies, IMHO.
The sequel trilogy made under Kathleen Kennedy/Disney retcons a bunch from the old movies in destructive ways that are quite disagreeable with a lot of people. It was not conceived according to a long-term plan. Episode 8 got a rogue director/script writer that probably secretly hated Star Wars, and the result is a mess. The follow-up episode 9 is a really bad movie (from a movie-making perspective) - a patchwork trying to make something cohesive out of the mess from episode 8, and it still changes the lore in destructive ways from the older movies. Avoid that cringe and save your energy and sanity!
You could also skip Episode 1, to avoid some cringe.

A popular watching order is the "Machete Order", but you could add Rogue One which ends precisely before Episode IV - A New Hope begins:

Rogue One
Episode IV - A New Hope
Episode V - Empire Strikes Back
Episode II - Attack of the Clones
Episode III - Revenge of the Sith
Episode VI - Return of the Jedi.
The Mandalorian seasons 1 and 2 (episodes 1..8 and 9..16)

The Mandalorian season 2 (episode 11 and on) have some references to the computer-animated TV series The Clone Wars and Rebels, but those are not necessary.
The series are also canon ("gospel"), but they are made more or less for kids so they are tonally different and of varying quality (and cringe). It would also take a long time to watch them all, and there are also quite a few "filler episodes".
The Clone Wars is set between Episode II and III, except for the last four episodes of season 7 which overlaps episode III. Rebels is set after Episode III chronologically.
BTW. The first seasons of The Clone Wars are also not in chronological order: there is an official chronology somewhere compiled by Leland Chee of Lucasfilm.

[Darthbaggins]

That's way out of order on that, if you want order yet removing the painful Jar Jar I'd recommend:

Clone Wars Series, III - Revenge , Rogue One, IV - New Hope, V - Empire, VI Return of the Jedi, Mando Series, Also I would recommend the Rebels series as well.
Solo would fall somewhere in the middle of Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One/New Hope

[phinix]

That's way out of order on that, if you want order yet removing the painful Jar Jar I'd recommend:

Clone Wars Series, III - Revenge , Rogue One, IV - New Hope, V - Empire, VI Return of the Jedi, Mando Series, Also I would recommend the Rebels series as well.
Solo would fall somewhere in the middle of Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One/New Hope

Yeah, that totally makes sense 

[Findecanor]

That's way out of order on that

The point of the Machete Order is that there is a big revelation of the past at the end of Episode V (you already know what ...) and that Episodes II and III provide the back-story that it refers to, before coming back to the present.
Episode I is not important for that back-story.

[Darthbaggins]

Ah I get it now, but I & II are pretty much replaced by the Clone Wars series (which would make for a looong flash back lol) - III is a necessary evil/rushed mess (should've been broken into two parts to lock in alot more information on what happened to the key characters).

[HungerMechanic]

I think that The Mandalorian is the first half-decent filmed Star Wars since 1983.

That being said, I think there are weaknesses in S2 as alluded to earlier in the thread.

The first is that S2 is essentially a cartoon. That's fine, in that it makes importation of the characters and elements from the cartoons that much easier.

However, in S2 I no longer felt that the main characters were in any danger or could lose / be killed. That seemed to be possible at times in S1, making it more high-stakes and serious.

The stormtroopers were simply a joke. They are supposed to be the infantry of a Galactic Empire, capable of maintaining order and striking fear into the populace. But main characters barely break a sweat most of the time, swatting them away as if they are flies. 2-4 people shouldn't be able to make frontal attacks on platoons of stormtroopers. They joke about their accuracy. It's as if they are taking the crudest popular culture stereotypes of these stormtroopers when writing the series.

Why is this important? Because if the ground forces of the former Galactic Empire are just a joke to our main characters, then how was the Empire ever a threat or a big baddie to begin with? How did it control a million worlds? More important, if stormtroopers are a joke opponent, then who is a challenge for our main characters?

You can see they already had to engage in 'threat inflation' in this series. So the only thing that can create difficulty for Mando are those Dark Troopers. They're a problem for Mando [or were, until Luke ex Machina shows up]. So now the opponents for Mando & friends will have to be overpowered supervillain characters, since the organized military forces of the Galactic Empire are less effective than nameless Ninja Tutle mooks.

That's part of why I say it's a cartoon. S1 was more like a Western. It was harsh, Mando was often very alone, it often looked as if he couldn't make it out alive. Valued main characters could die. Imperial forces were something that could trouble Mando. Now Mando and his superfriends just charge blindly into every situation and waste everyone. And it's clear that S2 was being used as a 'stealth pilot' to set up various spin-off series. Because of the series' popularity, three or more series are leeching off of S2 and diluting its thematic format. And this is the kind of thing you'd see in 90's cartoons.

So I'd say S2 is a good cartoon for kids, it could have been a more compelling Western like S1. I don't even know if there will be a S3, or if I'm supposed to watch the Cara Dune show and Boba Fett show now, can't promise that I will.

[noisyturtle]

Yeah 'ol Boba didn't grab me by the booboo's the way they probably had hoped. For season3 I'd like to see them use the Tales Of formulae from that old book series where each episode is a standalone story about one character. They could easily do an entire Tales Of The Bounty Hunters season and wedge Fat Boba into that.

[Darthbaggins]

Yeah 'ol Boba didn't grab me by the booboo's the way they probably had hoped. For season3 I'd like to see them use the Tales Of formulae from that old book series where each episode is a standalone story about one character. They could easily do an entire Tales Of The Bounty Hunters season and wedge Fat Boba into that.

Think they could shoe-horn him in there, lol
But that would be a good idea for the next seasons - I mean that worked on alot of other shows over the years as that way you wouldn't miss anything unless it was a multipart episode.

[ddrfraser1]

Me all week

feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=DrewFraser

[korrelate]

I think there's two things hold this show back though:

1. Scripts feel a little "phoned-in." In the Clone Wars and Rebels, the frequent lapses of gravity in the dialog were excusable because they're cartoons. For live action, the idea that EVERYONE (except Carl Weather's character) only speaks in four or five word sentences, though... it's beginning to cheese me off a bit. I mean come on, YOUKNOWWHO just saved EVERYBODY's a**es  by CENSORED B.C. I DON'T WANT TO SPOIL IT... very surprising, utterly delighting idea and .... then .....  NOTHING!!!. He's says like four words (that were completly redundant because its obvious that's exactly why he's there) and then turns to leave and gets played off stage to..... A triumphant march? No, no, no. I've got an idea: how about we just use that demo track off that POS keyboard you bought at the ToysRUs clearance sale last year? You know what I mean? That 1 demo track that didn't sound like complete a**? Yeah, let's use that.

2. Music is a let down. I'm sure J.W. did Clone Wars and Rebels as well, right? I had heard he retired from the franchise. Don't get me wrong, the music isn't all bad... just very hit or miss. Whoever's composing this, though, is no John Williams. I think they really need to sort this out.


LOL I didn't realize that my grievances with this show were as deep as they are.

P.S.
It's worth noting too, that the script is even more important when, in a LIVE series, you are looking at an expressionless helmet the entire time he's NOT talking (which is A LOT). Darth Vader could get away with this because of his unique position w.r.t. the force, because his respirator was basically "speaking" for him, and because his helmet has many more features than DD's helmet has. In other words, DD has none of the advantages that other masked characters have had. I mean look at 3PO... he may be annyoying.... but now ask yourself, why did he have to speak so much? Why did  R2 have such an extensive vocabulary of beeps, whines and blurps? Because otherwise you're just looking at realitively inanimate props and anybody could make that show... and for much less.

[korrelate]

I think that The Mandalorian is the first half-decent filmed Star Wars since 1983.

That being said, I think there are weaknesses in S2 as alluded to earlier in the thread.

The first is that S2 is essentially a cartoon. That's fine, in that it makes importation of the characters and elements from the cartoons that much easier.

However, in S2 I no longer felt that the main characters were in any danger or could lose / be killed. That seemed to be possible at times in S1, making it more high-stakes and serious.

The stormtroopers were simply a joke. They are supposed to be the infantry of a Galactic Empire, capable of maintaining order and striking fear into the populace. But main characters barely break a sweat most of the time, swatting them away as if they are flies. 2-4 people shouldn't be able to make frontal attacks on platoons of stormtroopers. They joke about their accuracy. It's as if they are taking the crudest popular culture stereotypes of these stormtroopers when writing the series.

Why is this important? Because if the ground forces of the former Galactic Empire are just a joke to our main characters, then how was the Empire ever a threat or a big baddie to begin with? How did it control a million worlds? More important, if stormtroopers are a joke opponent, then who is a challenge for our main characters?

You can see they already had to engage in 'threat inflation' in this series. So the only thing that can create difficulty for Mando are those Dark Troopers. They're a problem for Mando [or were, until Luke ex Machina shows up]. So now the opponents for Mando & friends will have to be overpowered supervillain characters, since the organized military forces of the Galactic Empire are less effective than nameless Ninja Tutle mooks.

That's part of why I say it's a cartoon. S1 was more like a Western. It was harsh, Mando was often very alone, it often looked as if he couldn't make it out alive. Valued main characters could die. Imperial forces were something that could trouble Mando. Now Mando and his superfriends just charge blindly into every situation and waste everyone. And it's clear that S2 was being used as a 'stealth pilot' to set up various spin-off series. Because of the series' popularity, three or more series are leeching off of S2 and diluting its thematic format. And this is the kind of thing you'd see in 90's cartoons.

So I'd say S2 is a good cartoon for kids, it could have been a more compelling Western like S1. I don't even know if there will be a S3, or if I'm supposed to watch the Cara Dune show and Boba Fett show now, can't promise that I will.

Now that I'm good and pissed off about the shortcomings of this series I'm looking for people to agree with this because my frustrations now require validation. I agree with this 100%. They're bringing too much of the cartoon series into this and it IS NOT SERVING THE STORY.

Sort out the writing. The whole reason people love Ahsoka is because of her tragedy and how the Jedi couldn't get their heads out of their a**es.  Besides Boba Fett, the reason people liked idea of Mandalor was because of the tensions between Satine, Bo Katan and their civil war with Death Watch (sound familiar, <cough> 2020 <cough>).

With all the fuss that people had raised about this series, I had expected to find a show that had brought its A-game to the script and the sound. They didn't.

Visual Effects: definitely A-game, no questions there.
Script: come on, this is a C- minus AT BEST.
Sound: Again, mostly C-. Sometimes a C. I'm willing to cut a little slack here, b.c. J.W. set the bar so damn high, but come on: find the next J.W. or whatever ... try harder... what you're doing now with the music just IS NOT WORKING.

[HungerMechanic]

I'm not quite so critical of the music. I kind of appreciate the Western take on the theme, at least. But yes, sometimes the musical accompaniment
is just boring.

Yes, I agree that the bigger problem is with the lack of storytelling ambition. Mandalorian basically is Star Wars now. They're taking in bits of Dark Empire and the EU, and those had some gravity. Fighting the empire is still a clown show in this series, though, and I don't know where they can go with villains now that they're nerfed the Empire.

Some of those characters from the cartoons are beloved, and I am sure Ashoka will get first-rate treatment. She'll be in her own series, though. I hope now that the backdoor pilot episodes are done, they can focus on Mando's story and the anarchy after the Empire in a more mature way.