Thinkpads

[intelli78]

Are there any Thinkpad enthusiasts on GH?

I had a T21 in high school, and then got a brand new T43 when I went to college (almost ten years ago ). When I needed a new computer a couple years ago, I looked at Thinkpads but didn't like the direction Lenovo was going, and got a MacBook. But I just upgraded again, and went to a T450s this time.

And the truth is, I mostly like it now that I've gotten over the new style keyboard. It's not as good as the old one, but it's still the best laptop keyboard out there. And it's great to have a TrackPoint again.

The most frustrating things are the 16:9 screen and the lack of dedicated buttons below the trackpad. These features have no place on a Thinkpad and it sure feels like Lenovo sold out in this regard.

Despite these flaws, it's still a very good machine.

But the retro Thinkpad... now that's something. I don't know if I have ever been so excited for a new product. I really hope they do it right.

[nubbinator]

I still miss my T500.  I loved that thing.

[tp4tissue]

Still rocking my x220..  I think i'm going to stay with it for a LONG time...    It's just really heavy..  but I'm fat,  so I need whatever workout comes my way.

[intelli78]

I still miss my T500.  I loved that thing.

Hell yeah. Old keyboard, real mouse buttons, and no stupid numpad throwing off the symmetry of the whole design.

Still rocking my x220..  I think i'm going to stay with it for a LONG time...    It's just really heavy..  but I'm fat,  so I need whatever workout comes my way.

Show Image

X220 was nearly a perfect device, except for the lousy trackpad. IIRC that was the beginning of the Lenovo clickpads. If only they had stuck to an X201 style design.

[retrochick]

I still rock my x200 at home. Put Antergos on it and never looked back.

[tp4tissue]

I still rock my x200 at home. Put Antergos on it and never looked back.

I have an x201,  but overall, i stopped using it because sandybridge cpu is just like 30-45% faster..

[Hak Foo]

I had a 385XD in university, expanded to the full 96Mb of memory, even took it to work in 2006 when we had a desperate shortage of computers.

Now I'm on a T420.

[intelli78]

I want a W701ds....

[njbair]

Don't thinkpads have keyboard over-lighting?

[vivalarevolución]

I enjoyed Thinkpads when I was a Windows man back in the day.

When I became a Mac OS man, I started drinking the Apple kool-aid. 

Now that I'm a Linux man, I'm not sure what type of laptop I should favor, but I like being able to still use Mac OS if I ever need it.  Windows, meh.

[heedpantsnow]

I'm forced to use Lenovo Thinkpads at work. They are an abomination compared to my old beloved T series.

[ideus]

A X61t is still kicking here, it has been updated twice with Samsung SSDs the first was a commercial level one, the second a pro version, while it has only SATA-II interface runs faster than many modern machines:


Keyboard - check.
Display - decent.
Processor - decent.
GPU - sucks.
Build - check.


Overall a great machine.

[tp4tissue]

I'm forced to use Lenovo Thinkpads at work. They are an abomination compared to my old beloved T series.

Many people heart the old builds,    But honestly , the new ones are so much better..  there's really 0 reason you'd want to carry those bricks around if YOU _ DON'T _ HAVE _ TO

[Fire Brand]

A X61t is still kicking here, it has been updated twice with Samsung SSDs the first was a commercial level one, the second a pro version, while it has only SATA-II interface runs faster than many modern machines:


Keyboard - check.
Display - decent.
Processor - decent.
GPU - sucks.
Build - check.


Overall a great machine.

I'm rocking a X61 here at work still on its little dock with a SSD upgrade, have to say its taken a beating but still runs like a champ for what it is (Dedicated diagnostic machine/web browsing and invoices )

[Bromono]

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

[nephiel]

X131e here. It supports mSata so I have an extra SSD in the WAN slot. Not the fastest machine out there, but no slouch either, and it's overbuilt like a tank. Has a TrackPoint, too.

[bocahgundul]

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

may I ask why?

[Bromono]

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

[tp4tissue]

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

I don't see why they couldn't put their hack chips into a Macbook..


In fact,  they probably let people discover the lenovo chips on purpose, so that people would think, ok don't buy lenovo, buy apple..

But in reality,  they got their spy stuff in EVERY LAPTOP....

[Bromono]

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

I don't see why they couldn't put their hack chips into a Macbook..


In fact,  they probably let people discover the lenovo chips on purpose, so that people would think, ok don't buy lenovo, buy apple..

But in reality,  they got their spy stuff in EVERY LAPTOP....

I'm not going say much on this topic. but there is always grey market stuff out there. But when you have huge contracts with governments and implement stuff like that just to be caught on purpose. that makes no sense.

[heedpantsnow]

I'm forced to use Lenovo Thinkpads at work. They are an abomination compared to my old beloved T series.

Many people heart the old builds,    But honestly , the new ones are so much better..  there's really 0 reason you'd want to carry those bricks around if YOU _ DON'T _ HAVE _ TO

There are many reasons; you don't have to carry an old brick but the current Lenovos are a non-starter.  Reliability, security, and the lack of evolutionary bug fixing are all major issues with their products.

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

I've briefed a few folks from our IT department about this but never actually saw the news reports backing it up.  All of what I presented was my own findings lol.

[ideus]

A X61t is still kicking here, it has been updated twice with Samsung SSDs the first was a commercial level one, the second a pro version, while it has only SATA-II interface runs faster than many modern machines:


Keyboard - check.
Display - decent.
Processor - decent.
GPU - sucks.
Build - check.


Overall a great machine.

I'm rocking a X61 here at work still on its little dock with a SSD upgrade, have to say its taken a beating but still runs like a champ for what it is (Dedicated diagnostic machine/web browsing and invoices )

I am pretty much into data analysis and writing some papers and for that this little old friend is more than enough.  )

[jdcarpe]

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

I don't see why they couldn't put their hack chips into a Macbook..


In fact,  they probably let people discover the lenovo chips on purpose, so that people would think, ok don't buy lenovo, buy apple..

But in reality,  they got their spy stuff in EVERY LAPTOP....

I'm not going say much on this topic. but there is always grey market stuff out there. But when you have huge contracts with governments and implement stuff like that just to be caught on purpose. that makes no sense.

Wow, that's scary. And I still use my T61, but only for casual browsing and such.

[ideus]

Lenovo Chips? Thinkpads use Intel Chips as most PCs around. This "news" appears to be a simple dirty ad campaign against Lenovo.

[Bromono]

Lenovo Chips? Thinkpads use Intel Chips as most PCs around. This "news" appears to be a simple dirty ad campaign against Lenovo.

I can tell you first hand its not a simple campaign against lenovo. Intel agencies wouldn't stop using them if it was just to put bad press on lenovo.

and having a rootkit in the bios/hardware really has nothing to do with the brand of chip sets.

it can be done with with any computer.

[ideus]

Lenovo Chips? Thinkpads use Intel Chips as most PCs around. This "news" appears to be a simple dirty ad campaign against Lenovo.

I can tell you first hand its not a simple campaign against lenovo. Intel agencies wouldn't stop using them if it was just to put bad press on lenovo.

and having a rootkit in the bios/hardware really has nothing to do with the brand of chip sets.

it can be done with with any computer.

Precisely, BIOS vulnerabilities exist in any computer; then, why it is stated as if it would be related with a single brand?

[Bromono]

Lenovo Chips? Thinkpads use Intel Chips as most PCs around. This "news" appears to be a simple dirty ad campaign against Lenovo.

I can tell you first hand its not a simple campaign against lenovo. Intel agencies wouldn't stop using them if it was just to put bad press on lenovo.

and having a rootkit in the bios/hardware really has nothing to do with the brand of chip sets.

it can be done with with any computer.

Precisely, BIOS vulnerabilities exist in any computer; then, why it is stated as if it would be related with a single brand?

A rootkit that has been installed on a fresh new laptop is not a vulnerability. A vulnerability is like an open port or a un-patched service. You cant get rid of a backdoor at the hardware level. And the only way they could have a backdoor at the hardware level and be brand new is A. Grey market B. Manufacturer put it there in the first place.

[heedpantsnow]

When I lived in China I hung out with few of the Chinese hacker-types.  I was into watercooling, modding, and mech kb's, and there wasn't a huge market there at the time so I hung out a bit with the few folks that were into it.  They were always talking about stuff they and their friends were working on.  I had a bit of knowledge in the area so I often joined in their discussions.  Basically it's blatantly common knowledge that the government there conducts industrial espionage on foreign high-tech firms, both as a end and as a means to develop their offensive cyberwarfare capabilities.  The information they acquire they then trade to domestic companies for hardware-level and rootkit-level access to their products.  I've seen some of the stuff at work, and it's pretty nutty.  My friend had two hdd's from a well-known company, visually indistinguishable from each other, but one had a custom rootkit installed that intercepts I/O and records it all to a special area of the hdd.  I saw this working in person.  They talked about the different ways different firms put these into their products, with Lenovo and Huawei right in the thick of it.  Among other things, Huawei helps the state intell. and PSB develop custom carrier updates which allow special access to phones.  So say you're a foreign exec and you travel there, the moment you turn on your phone the tower pushes out a malicious update to your phone [I never saw this myself, but one of the guys was a phone OS programmer and was always railing on this].

This is only just a small part of it all, just mostly what I saw with my own eyes or the data of on a screen.  No, it's not only Lenovo that does this, but they are a major player in supplying tech to a lot of the world.  Some even wonder if the state injected cash to help them buy IBM's consumer division in order to facilitate these types of activities.  I'm not so sure, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I didn't intend this post to be so long.  Sorry to derail.  Back to gushing about your Thinkpads.

[ideus]

People should back to typewriters and telegraph, unless they have a hidden index mechanism that would be hacked.


 

[Bromono]

When I lived in China I hung out with few of the Chinese hacker-types.  I was into watercooling, modding, and mech kb's, and there wasn't a huge market there at the time so I hung out a bit with the few folks that were into it.  They were always talking about stuff they and their friends were working on.  I had a bit of knowledge in the area so I often joined in their discussions.  Basically it's blatantly common knowledge that the government there conducts industrial espionage on foreign high-tech firms, both as a end and as a means to develop their offensive cyberwarfare capabilities.  The information they acquire they then trade to domestic companies for hardware-level and rootkit-level access to their products.  I've seen some of the stuff at work, and it's pretty nutty.  My friend had two hdd's from a well-known company, visually indistinguishable from each other, but one had a custom rootkit installed that intercepts I/O and records it all to a special area of the hdd.  I saw this working in person.  They talked about the different ways different firms put these into their products, with Lenovo and Huawei right in the thick of it.  Among other things, Huawei helps the state intell. and PSB develop custom carrier updates which allow special access to phones.  So say you're a foreign exec and you travel there, the moment you turn on your phone the tower pushes out a malicious update to your phone [I never saw this myself, but one of the guys was a phone OS programmer and was always railing on this].

This is only just a small part of it all, just mostly what I saw with my own eyes or the data of on a screen.  No, it's not only Lenovo that does this, but they are a major player in supplying tech to a lot of the world.  Some even wonder if the state injected cash to help them buy IBM's consumer division in order to facilitate these types of activities.  I'm not so sure, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I didn't intend this post to be so long.  Sorry to derail.  Back to gushing about your Thinkpads.

Great post. Thank you.

And you are right it is not just Lenovo doing things like this. Just recently they found backdoors in Arris cable modems.

I just threw the Lenovo fact in there so people where aware. I dont want to get into the nitty gritty of it.

cheers

People should back to typewriters and telegraph, unless they have a hidden index mechanism that would be hacked.


 

World war 2 was won heavily based on the fact we where able to decrypt their telegraphs and radio signals.

Nothing is safe!

[ideus]

When I lived in China I hung out with few of the Chinese hacker-types.  I was into watercooling, modding, and mech kb's, and there wasn't a huge market there at the time so I hung out a bit with the few folks that were into it.  They were always talking about stuff they and their friends were working on.  I had a bit of knowledge in the area so I often joined in their discussions.  Basically it's blatantly common knowledge that the government there conducts industrial espionage on foreign high-tech firms, both as a end and as a means to develop their offensive cyberwarfare capabilities.  The information they acquire they then trade to domestic companies for hardware-level and rootkit-level access to their products.  I've seen some of the stuff at work, and it's pretty nutty.  My friend had two hdd's from a well-known company, visually indistinguishable from each other, but one had a custom rootkit installed that intercepts I/O and records it all to a special area of the hdd.  I saw this working in person.  They talked about the different ways different firms put these into their products, with Lenovo and Huawei right in the thick of it.  Among other things, Huawei helps the state intell. and PSB develop custom carrier updates which allow special access to phones.  So say you're a foreign exec and you travel there, the moment you turn on your phone the tower pushes out a malicious update to your phone [I never saw this myself, but one of the guys was a phone OS programmer and was always railing on this].

This is only just a small part of it all, just mostly what I saw with my own eyes or the data of on a screen.  No, it's not only Lenovo that does this, but they are a major player in supplying tech to a lot of the world.  Some even wonder if the state injected cash to help them buy IBM's consumer division in order to facilitate these types of activities.  I'm not so sure, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I didn't intend this post to be so long.  Sorry to derail.  Back to gushing about your Thinkpads.

Great post. Thank you.

And you are right it is not just Lenovo doing things like this. Just recently they found backdoors in Arris cable modems.

I just threw the Lenovo fact in there so people where aware. I dont want to get into the nitty gritty of it.

cheers

People should back to typewriters and telegraph, unless they have a hidden index mechanism that would be hacked.


 

World war 2 was won heavily based on the fact we where able to decrypt their telegraphs and radio signals.

Nothing is safe!

Even Enigma machine was broken. That is the entire point.

[tufty]

I enjoyed Thinkpads when I was a Windows man back in the day.

When I became a Mac OS man, I started drinking the Apple kool-aid. 

Now that I'm a Linux man, I'm not sure what type of laptop I should favor, but I like being able to still use Mac OS if I ever need it.  Windows, meh.

X220 with OSX on it.

[Firebolt1914]

I have an X220T with arch and an SSD

[nubbinator]

Don't thinkpads have keyboard over-lighting?

Since no one answered you question, yes, they did.  My T500 had a light on the monitor I could turn on to illuminate the keyboard.

More

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

I don't see why they couldn't put their hack chips into a Macbook..


In fact,  they probably let people discover the lenovo chips on purpose, so that people would think, ok don't buy lenovo, buy apple..

But in reality,  they got their spy stuff in EVERY LAPTOP....

I'm not going say much on this topic. but there is always grey market stuff out there. But when you have huge contracts with governments and implement stuff like that just to be caught on purpose. that makes no sense.

Wow, that's scary. And I still use my T61, but only for casual browsing and such.

Those were issues with newer Lenovo laptops.  I believe it was after the T400 and T500 that they started doing it...or at least started doing it where people actually found out about it.

People should back to typewriters and telegraph, unless they have a hidden index mechanism that would be hacked.


 

I know you're probably joking, but every system is vulnerable.  The only non-vulnerable system is one so obscure that no one know how it works (even then it may rely upon insecure input methods) or one that is never turned on and never leaves the hole it's buried in in the ground.  Typewriters rely on a ribbon that can be intercepted and read (a common spy tactic of old) and they can and have had keyloggers placed in them in the past.  The IBM Selectric was bugged by Soviet spies. 

And unless you transmit with a one time pad via telegraph, it would be easy as to intercept and decode.  Telegraphs rely on wires just like phones.  Unlike phones, they're analog instead of digital.  You can get encrypted phones or disposable phones that would be far more secure.

[ideus]

Don't thinkpads have keyboard over-lighting?

Since no one answered you question, yes, they did.  My T500 had a light on the monitor I could turn on to illuminate the keyboard.

More

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

may I ask why?

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/16748/hacking/spy-agencies-ban-on-lenovo-pcs-due-to-backdoor-vulnerabilities.html

I don't see why they couldn't put their hack chips into a Macbook..


In fact,  they probably let people discover the lenovo chips on purpose, so that people would think, ok don't buy lenovo, buy apple..

But in reality,  they got their spy stuff in EVERY LAPTOP....

I'm not going say much on this topic. but there is always grey market stuff out there. But when you have huge contracts with governments and implement stuff like that just to be caught on purpose. that makes no sense.

Wow, that's scary. And I still use my T61, but only for casual browsing and such.

Those were issues with newer Lenovo laptops.  I believe it was after the T400 and T500 that they started doing it...or at least started doing it where people actually found out about it.

People should back to typewriters and telegraph, unless they have a hidden index mechanism that would be hacked.


 

I know you're probably joking, but every system is vulnerable.  The only non-vulnerable system is one so obscure that no one know how it works (even then it may rely upon insecure input methods) or one that is never turned on and never leaves the hole it's buried in in the ground.  Typewriters rely on a ribbon that can be intercepted and read (a common spy tactic of old) and they can and have had keyloggers placed in them in the past.  The IBM Selectric was bugged by Soviet spies. 

And unless you transmit with a one time pad via telegraph, it would be easy as to intercept and decode.  Telegraphs rely on wires just like phones.  Unlike phones, they're analog instead of digital.  You can get encrypted phones or disposable phones that would be far more secure.

The intention was to put a reality in a funny way, maybe it read as a sarcasm, instead. Someone referred here to some security issues apparently related with just one particular brand of computers, while the fact is that, there is no system immune to security breaches, otherwise, companies with businesses in this area would not have any at all. The fact is even military systems are exposed. A good historic example was the Enigma code breaking that allowed allies to won the WW-II.


In all fairness this thread was about a particular model of PC, and now we are talking about security.


Getting back to the OP subject I am typing right now on my X61 and I was not able to find a keyboard as nice as this one in many other lap tops that I have tried, so far, including Macs.

[noisyturtle]

RIP Rich Sapper, designer of the IBM Thinkpad. 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/06/thinkpad_designer_obituary/

[DanielT]

I have a T400 and love it, at work I have an Apple thingy, totally hate it, I would never buy one for personal use mainly because of the ****ty OSX. I know T400 is heavy and not fancy looking but it's my favourite 

[sth]

RIP Rich Sapper, designer of the IBM Thinkpad. 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/06/thinkpad_designer_obituary/

Oh no! I was just checking out his portfolio. awesome work.

To continue the necroposting... i have a macbook air from 2013 but my main machine is a thinkpad x301. awesome laptop.

[davkol]

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

Then you should never own a system with Intel AMT either, among other things.

[rowdy]

From a IT Security standpoint.

I will never own a Lenovo

Then you should never own a system with Intel AMT either, among other things.

But Lenovo actually put malware into their BIOS so that it reinstalled each time you rebooted, whether you did a fresh Windows installation or not.

[Altis]

I like my T450S enough, though I wish the screen were bigger (15.6" 16:10).

The one thing that's driving me nuts with it is the trackpad. It's so jumpy, especially near the edges. It can be really difficult to highlight text, for example.

The keyboard is good in terms of travel and feel, but I made the mistake of getting the backlit keyboard which gives you glossy keycaps. The non-backlit keyboards have textured keycaps with pad printing and I prefer how they feel. My finger tips don't detect soft, smooth keycaps as well.

[SamirD]

When I lived in China I hung out with few of the Chinese hacker-types.  I was into watercooling, modding, and mech kb's, and there wasn't a huge market there at the time so I hung out a bit with the few folks that were into it.  They were always talking about stuff they and their friends were working on.  I had a bit of knowledge in the area so I often joined in their discussions.  Basically it's blatantly common knowledge that the government there conducts industrial espionage on foreign high-tech firms, both as a end and as a means to develop their offensive cyberwarfare capabilities.  The information they acquire they then trade to domestic companies for hardware-level and rootkit-level access to their products.  I've seen some of the stuff at work, and it's pretty nutty.  My friend had two hdd's from a well-known company, visually indistinguishable from each other, but one had a custom rootkit installed that intercepts I/O and records it all to a special area of the hdd.  I saw this working in person.  They talked about the different ways different firms put these into their products, with Lenovo and Huawei right in the thick of it.  Among other things, Huawei helps the state intell. and PSB develop custom carrier updates which allow special access to phones.  So say you're a foreign exec and you travel there, the moment you turn on your phone the tower pushes out a malicious update to your phone [I never saw this myself, but one of the guys was a phone OS programmer and was always railing on this].

This is only just a small part of it all, just mostly what I saw with my own eyes or the data of on a screen.  No, it's not only Lenovo that does this, but they are a major player in supplying tech to a lot of the world.  Some even wonder if the state injected cash to help them buy IBM's consumer division in order to facilitate these types of activities.  I'm not so sure, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I didn't intend this post to be so long.  Sorry to derail.  Back to gushing about your Thinkpads.

Very interesting.  I've always thought there was stuff like this going on.

We're in the Information Age.  And like all ages before this, it's those can control the age that control the world.  Iron Age, Bronze Age, Industrial Age--all we controlled by those that controlled the material in the age.  So the battle ensues for control of the information--by Google, by Facebook, and by governments.  I told all this to my dad in the late 1990s. 

...at work I have an Apple thingy...

Isn't that an iThingy? lol!

So to add to the thread, I too miss the Thinkpads of yesteryear.  I could never afford one, but a couple of years ago a friend of mine gave me a 750cs--a lowly 486, but fully loaded with enough ram to run win95 and can probably win3.1 like a champ.  I still have it too, just haven't powered it on in forever.  They keyboard is still as nice as ever. 

[tp4tissue]

corporate espionage is very very real..

And the federal governments are by far the world's largest corporations.


Think of it this way.. espionage is better than war, because espionage is cheaper, and people don't die as quickly..

[SamirD]

...and people don't die as quickly...

Or with as much fuss.

[rowdy]

...and people don't die as quickly...

Or with as much fuss.

Or with as much mess.

[ideus]

corporate espionage is very very real..

And the federal governments are by far the world's largest corporations.


Think of it this way.. espionage is better than war, because espionage is cheaper, and people don't die as quickly..

A good subject for a new season of 24, the TV series.

[vivalarevolución]

When I lived in China I hung out with few of the Chinese hacker-types.  I was into watercooling, modding, and mech kb's, and there wasn't a huge market there at the time so I hung out a bit with the few folks that were into it.  They were always talking about stuff they and their friends were working on.  I had a bit of knowledge in the area so I often joined in their discussions.  Basically it's blatantly common knowledge that the government there conducts industrial espionage on foreign high-tech firms, both as a end and as a means to develop their offensive cyberwarfare capabilities.  The information they acquire they then trade to domestic companies for hardware-level and rootkit-level access to their products.  I've seen some of the stuff at work, and it's pretty nutty.  My friend had two hdd's from a well-known company, visually indistinguishable from each other, but one had a custom rootkit installed that intercepts I/O and records it all to a special area of the hdd.  I saw this working in person.  They talked about the different ways different firms put these into their products, with Lenovo and Huawei right in the thick of it.  Among other things, Huawei helps the state intell. and PSB develop custom carrier updates which allow special access to phones.  So say you're a foreign exec and you travel there, the moment you turn on your phone the tower pushes out a malicious update to your phone [I never saw this myself, but one of the guys was a phone OS programmer and was always railing on this].

This is only just a small part of it all, just mostly what I saw with my own eyes or the data of on a screen.  No, it's not only Lenovo that does this, but they are a major player in supplying tech to a lot of the world.  Some even wonder if the state injected cash to help them buy IBM's consumer division in order to facilitate these types of activities.  I'm not so sure, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I didn't intend this post to be so long.  Sorry to derail.  Back to gushing about your Thinkpads.

Wow.  Very interesting.  And scary.

I wonder how much this happens with all modern computer technology, not just Lenovo, considering how much is made in China and how large corporations and governments are linked these days.

[SamirD]

Wow.  Very interesting.  And scary.

I wonder how much this happens with all modern computer technology, not just Lenovo, considering how much is made in China and how large corporations and governments are linked these days.

Probably a lot, lot, lot more than we think.  We're just pawns in a bigger game...

[vivalarevolución]

necro time.

I've been thinking about buying a Thinkpad because my T420 is too slow for my needs (among other outdated aspects), but then I remember all the security issues discussed in this thread and it makes me hesitant.

[Belfong]

then Carbon is absolutely wonderful. I’d recommend that.

[ideus]

A T460s will be delivered at my door, soon.

[Leslieann]

A 2nd Gen Intel I7 2630m which can be put into the T420 is faster and more powerful (by about 10%) than the process you get in the Lenovo Carbon X1, which uses a ULV processor. The Carbon does however have a better graphics chip and is a bit thinner and of course lighter, but also MUCH more expensive than just beefing up the T420.  See the important note at the end regarding high end ultrabooks*.


While most T420 are dog sh*t slow, it's usually a combination of easy to replace parts that cause it.
The stock ram in them was too little and garbage from day one, and the hard drive which was pedestrian at best in it's day is now not only worn and tired, but insanely slow and inefficient compared to todays SSDs.

Viva, what processor is in your 420?
The 420 is one of the last Thinkpads that you can still swap the processor and those processors are some of the last full power processors as well.  With an i7 and 16gb ram and an ssd, they are actually just about as fast and powerful as anything made in the last year or so, most of which are using low voltage processors.

I7 dual core  $45
16GB ram for about $70
SSD - $60
Basically for $175 you get a kick-@ss system that's cheap to repair if it breaks. A new OEM battery (not Chinese crap, $35) will get you between 5 and 6 hours of browsing when combined with an SSD and mild power tuning.

The high res screen (1600x900) is a drop in replacement ($55), and a mobo swap can get you a cheap Nvidia graphics card if you want but don't have it. I had one built this way, and while I think the screen and vid card were over-rated, the system was VERY fast, had good battery life and was capable of running Linux really well. It also had one of the best laptop keyboards made, and you can install open source bios. You can even install a quad core I7 processor for under $75. Wireless AC requires a bios mod and probably costs $10. It's probably the most adaptable and hackable laptop ever built.


If you do still want a replacement,
The question becomes, budget, screen size and intended purpose, but honestly, there is actually very little out there today that will make a built T420 look slow. While you will get more battery life, a touch screen and thinner system, in terms of power and speed, you won;t accomplish anything you couldn't do by just beefing up your T420.  Oh, and don't forget, the T420 is a matte screen, the touch screen will be glossy.


Note:
*I happen to love the Carbon, but be careful who you buy from, and make sure it can be returned as many suffer coil whine. VERY, VERY loud whine, more like a scream! Some vendors, including Lenovo can be problematic in getting them to fix it, trying to claim it's not a problem or an inconvenience. I dealt with one and you could hear the whine throughout an entire 3500sq ft. home. So you want to buy from someone you can return it without hassle. Keep in mind that it's not the only laptop of it's style and generation with the problem, Dell especially also has a few models with coil whine complaints.

[ReverbSlush]

T440 and T520 here. Mine are work issued and I don't think our dept cares too much about espionage.  If they steal my code maybe the could help fix it for me

My T520 has the light over the monitor... it's easy to find in the dark (top right corner pgUp and bottom left corner FN).  I use it way more than I thought I would when I got the laptop.

Oh yeah, I also have an old thinkpad somewhere in the basement... maybe 10 years old or more?  I'll dig it out someday and see if I can get it running.  Last time I remember messing with it, the battery was shot and I didn't have the right power cord.

[Flyersfan1]

Excited to see what Lenovo has in store for CES

ever since their blog post on the "retro thinkpad" focus group, I've been keeping an eye out for any developments! I'm seriously going to consider a T series after the lineup gets refreshed!

[vivalarevolución]

Thanks for the reply, Leslieann.

-I have an i5-2520M.  I should have figured that the processor can be replaced, as the M denotes that it is socketed.  A quad-core sounds nice, because I have hit the limits of the capabilities of dual core laptop processors.  I wonder how well this laptop can cool a quad core laptop processor.  Oh great, plenty of Youtube videos about that.
-I have 8GB of aftermarket RAM I installed and that is enough for what I do at the moment.
-The HDD is original and definitely could benefit with an SSD in their.
-I would like a better screen, and I probably can look up a video about how to replace it on Youtube.
-This baby definitely needs a new battery, that is for sure.

Maybe I'll just do all that and save myself some cash.  The T420 is the last of its breed and I like it. 

More

A 2nd Gen Intel I7 2630m which can be put into the T420 is faster and more powerful (by about 10%) than the process you get in the Lenovo Carbon X1, which uses a ULV processor. The Carbon does however have a better graphics chip and is a bit thinner and of course lighter, but also MUCH more expensive than just beefing up the T420.  See the important note at the end regarding high end ultrabooks*.


While most T420 are dog sh*t slow, it's usually a combination of easy to replace parts that cause it.
The stock ram in them was too little and garbage from day one, and the hard drive which was pedestrian at best in it's day is now not only worn and tired, but insanely slow and inefficient compared to todays SSDs.

Viva, what processor is in your 420?
The 420 is one of the last Thinkpads that you can still swap the processor and those processors are some of the last full power processors as well.  With an i7 and 16gb ram and an ssd, they are actually just about as fast and powerful as anything made in the last year or so, most of which are using low voltage processors.

I7 dual core  $45
16GB ram for about $70
SSD - $60
Basically for $175 you get a kick-@ss system that's cheap to repair if it breaks. A new OEM battery (not Chinese crap, $35) will get you between 5 and 6 hours of browsing when combined with an SSD and mild power tuning.

The high res screen (1600x900) is a drop in replacement ($55), and a mobo swap can get you a cheap Nvidia graphics card if you want but don't have it. I had one built this way, and while I think the screen and vid card were over-rated, the system was VERY fast, had good battery life and was capable of running Linux really well. It also had one of the best laptop keyboards made, and you can install open source bios. You can even install a quad core I7 processor for under $75. Wireless AC requires a bios mod and probably costs $10. It's probably the most adaptable and hackable laptop ever built.


If you do still want a replacement,
The question becomes, budget, screen size and intended purpose, but honestly, there is actually very little out there today that will make a built T420 look slow. While you will get more battery life, a touch screen and thinner system, in terms of power and speed, you won;t accomplish anything you couldn't do by just beefing up your T420.  Oh, and don't forget, the T420 is a matte screen, the touch screen will be glossy.


Note:
*I happen to love the Carbon, but be careful who you buy from, and make sure it can be returned as many suffer coil whine. VERY, VERY loud whine, more like a scream! Some vendors, including Lenovo can be problematic in getting them to fix it, trying to claim it's not a problem or an inconvenience. I dealt with one and you could hear the whine throughout an entire 3500sq ft. home. So you want to buy from someone you can return it without hassle. Keep in mind that it's not the only laptop of it's style and generation with the problem, Dell especially also has a few models with coil whine complaints.

[Leslieann]

You're welcome.

The 2520 isn't terrible, but it's certainly not great either.
I would start with the ssd with fresh install and go from there, I think you will be quite surprised at how it wakes up the system. It's shocking how it can transform a system and you will NEVER go back after having one. I'd recommend a low power model from Crucial, some will tell you get a faster one from them or Samsung, but while the speed difference isn't really noticeable, the power requirements and price increase certainly are. Being a power hungry system, you will get more from an efficiency model, my X220 gained about 25% battery life switching to a low power ssd over the stock HDD. Any modern SSD makes ANY old hard drive look pathetic in terms of performance and battery life.

There are rumors that the T430 fan will work in the 20, may be something to look into.

[tp4tissue]

Thanks for the reply, Leslieann.

-I have an i5-2520M.  I should have figured that the processor can be replaced, as the M denotes that it is socketed.  A quad-core sounds nice, because I have hit the limits of the capabilities of dual core laptop processors.  I wonder how well this laptop can cool a quad core laptop processor.  Oh great, plenty of Youtube videos about that.
-I have 8GB of aftermarket RAM I installed and that is enough for what I do at the moment.
-The HDD is original and definitely could benefit with an SSD in their.
-I would like a better screen, and I probably can look up a video about how to replace it on Youtube.
-This baby definitely needs a new battery, that is for sure.

Maybe I'll just do all that and save myself some cash.  The T420 is the last of its breed and I like it. 

More

A 2nd Gen Intel I7 2630m which can be put into the T420 is faster and more powerful (by about 10%) than the process you get in the Lenovo Carbon X1, which uses a ULV processor. The Carbon does however have a better graphics chip and is a bit thinner and of course lighter, but also MUCH more expensive than just beefing up the T420.  See the important note at the end regarding high end ultrabooks*.


While most T420 are dog sh*t slow, it's usually a combination of easy to replace parts that cause it.
The stock ram in them was too little and garbage from day one, and the hard drive which was pedestrian at best in it's day is now not only worn and tired, but insanely slow and inefficient compared to todays SSDs.

Viva, what processor is in your 420?
The 420 is one of the last Thinkpads that you can still swap the processor and those processors are some of the last full power processors as well.  With an i7 and 16gb ram and an ssd, they are actually just about as fast and powerful as anything made in the last year or so, most of which are using low voltage processors.

I7 dual core  $45
16GB ram for about $70
SSD - $60
Basically for $175 you get a kick-@ss system that's cheap to repair if it breaks. A new OEM battery (not Chinese crap, $35) will get you between 5 and 6 hours of browsing when combined with an SSD and mild power tuning.

The high res screen (1600x900) is a drop in replacement ($55), and a mobo swap can get you a cheap Nvidia graphics card if you want but don't have it. I had one built this way, and while I think the screen and vid card were over-rated, the system was VERY fast, had good battery life and was capable of running Linux really well. It also had one of the best laptop keyboards made, and you can install open source bios. You can even install a quad core I7 processor for under $75. Wireless AC requires a bios mod and probably costs $10. It's probably the most adaptable and hackable laptop ever built.


If you do still want a replacement,
The question becomes, budget, screen size and intended purpose, but honestly, there is actually very little out there today that will make a built T420 look slow. While you will get more battery life, a touch screen and thinner system, in terms of power and speed, you won;t accomplish anything you couldn't do by just beefing up your T420.  Oh, and don't forget, the T420 is a matte screen, the touch screen will be glossy.


Note:
*I happen to love the Carbon, but be careful who you buy from, and make sure it can be returned as many suffer coil whine. VERY, VERY loud whine, more like a scream! Some vendors, including Lenovo can be problematic in getting them to fix it, trying to claim it's not a problem or an inconvenience. I dealt with one and you could hear the whine throughout an entire 3500sq ft. home. So you want to buy from someone you can return it without hassle. Keep in mind that it's not the only laptop of it's style and generation with the problem, Dell especially also has a few models with coil whine complaints.

2520m isn't usually socketed on most laptops.

Buhhhhhhhhhhhh I've heard that if you got a reflow station... it may be possible to swap out for the i7 equivalent.


You need one of those solderball rigs to do that though..  it's a non trivial task.

[vivalarevolución]

I haven't checked the processor on this laptop.  I'll get to that.  I'm actually surprised that I haven't dug that far into the internals yet.

On another note, a couple forum threads noted that a quad core in this machine runs hot, but there might be some ways to keep it throttled down through software (which I don't know yet).

I'm tempted by the T460p, because it seems like a sub-$1000 beast of a laptop with some features the T420 simply can't beat (WQHD screen and thinner, lighter profile, even if performance gains are not that substantial).  Those things factor in for me.

[Leslieann]

2520m isn't usually socketed on most laptops.
Buhhhhhhhhhhhh I've heard that if you got a reflow station... it may be possible to swap out for the i7 equivalent.
You need one of those solderball rigs to do that though..  it's a non trivial task.

It's socketed.
Being labeled an M has nothing to do with how it's mounted, only that it's a mobile processor rather than desktop. Some processors such as the 2520m are available in socketed and BGA (soldered). Besides having owned and worked on several T420's, an easy way to check is to simply go check Ebay for T420 motherboards.

You can think Intel for the screwy labeling, they feel confusing people is good for business, and I guess it is since people think the new Macbook (which uses an M5 processor) is a replacement for the Macbook Air (Core I5U and I7U) it must be working.*


*M3 and M5 are barely a step up from an Atom, even an i3 will wipe the floor with an M5.

[vivalarevolución]

Yea, the processor is socketed and i was able to remove it.  The hard part will be the display, requires a great deal more steps and finesse.

I've had a few SSDs in the past, I'm familiar with the instant change in performance.  I did not even know there were differences in the power usage of SSDs.

[CSCoder4ever]

I had a thinkpad edge 13 w/ a core 2 duo SU7300 for a while, but it wasn't good enough for my liking. That's why now I am rocking an X220 I bought from ebay over the summer 

[bexleycorona]

Started with a T40, then T61 (I think that was the model), and now a T430.

I've upgraded the ram to 12 GB (8GB in 1 slot and original 4GB in the other). The HDD was taken out and replaced with a SSD.

Honestly, it's enough for my needs. If this thing lasts another 2-3 years then I'll be happy

[Leslieann]

Yea, the processor is socketed and i was able to remove it.  The hard part will be the display, requires a great deal more steps and finesse.

I've had a few SSDs in the past, I'm familiar with the instant change in performance.  I did not even know there were differences in the power usage of SSDs.

The only delicate part is the connector behind the lcd, otherwise, piece of cake. Just pry the tape up slow and easy. If you damage the cable(unlikely), you can get one on Ebay for a couple bucks. It's the lcd side of the connector you need to be careful of, and since you would be replacing that, it's not a big deal. It's a 10-15 minute job at most.

I admit, it's not as easy as an SSD swap, but I've actually had far more trouble with flip open latches on keyboard and LCD connectors as of late  on Asus, Toshiba and Fujitsu laptops and tablets. The plastics they used for them become quite brittle as they age. The first time I blamed myself thinking I did something wrong, but when it happened a third time, in a way I hadn't even put pressure on, I knew it wasn't anything I did. 

[tp4tissue]

I had a thinkpad edge 13 w/ a core 2 duo SU7300 for a while, but it wasn't good enough for my liking. That's why now I am rocking an X220 I bought from ebay over the summer 

But did you upgrade to 16GB 1866mhz RAM.. for m0re Fastness. ??

x220 4ever 

[tp4tissue]

Yea, the processor is socketed and i was able to remove it.  The hard part will be the display, requires a great deal more steps and finesse.

I've had a few SSDs in the past, I'm familiar with the instant change in performance.  I did not even know there were differences in the power usage of SSDs.

The only delicate part is the connector behind the lcd, otherwise, piece of cake. Just pry the tape up slow and easy. If you damage the cable(unlikely), you can get one on Ebay for a couple bucks. It's the lcd side of the connector you need to be careful of, and since you would be replacing that, it's not a big deal. It's a 10-15 minute job at most.

I admit, it's not as easy as an SSD swap, but I've actually had far more trouble with flip open latches on keyboard and LCD connectors as of late  on Asus, Toshiba and Fujitsu laptops and tablets. The plastics they used for them become quite brittle as they age. The first time I blamed myself thinking I did something wrong, but when it happened a third time, in a way I hadn't even put pressure on, I knew it wasn't anything I did. 

Well there's also the bezel infront of the lcd.. That thing is hard to get off because it's quite delicate..  Easily broken if you're not careful..

[Leslieann]

Yea, the processor is socketed and i was able to remove it.  The hard part will be the display, requires a great deal more steps and finesse.

I've had a few SSDs in the past, I'm familiar with the instant change in performance.  I did not even know there were differences in the power usage of SSDs.

The only delicate part is the connector behind the lcd, otherwise, piece of cake. Just pry the tape up slow and easy. If you damage the cable(unlikely), you can get one on Ebay for a couple bucks. It's the lcd side of the connector you need to be careful of, and since you would be replacing that, it's not a big deal. It's a 10-15 minute job at most.

I admit, it's not as easy as an SSD swap, but I've actually had far more trouble with flip open latches on keyboard and LCD connectors as of late  on Asus, Toshiba and Fujitsu laptops and tablets. The plastics they used for them become quite brittle as they age. The first time I blamed myself thinking I did something wrong, but when it happened a third time, in a way I hadn't even put pressure on, I knew it wasn't anything I did. 

Well there's also the bezel infront of the lcd.. That thing is hard to get off because it's quite delicate..  Easily broken if you're not careful..

Easy peasy.
It's been a while but I do remember the X220 which is similar...

Remove the screws, then pry from INSIDE. Slide a spudger/fingernail/etc... between the LCD and the bezel and pull towards you. It pops right off.
If you try and pull from the outer edge in, you are working against the locking, tabs, inside out pops them open.

[wodan]

World war 2 was won heavily based on the fact we where able to decrypt their telegraphs and radio signals.

Nothing is safe!

That's the US/UK point of view, greatly bloating a very clever technical triumph

Take a look at fallen.io and you will realize the war was won in the east. Paid with millions of Russian lives...

The impression that Germany was beaten by cracking their codes and bombing their cities is a misconception that affects military doctrine to this day.

[ideus]

World war 2 was won heavily based on the fact we where able to decrypt their telegraphs and radio signals.

Nothing is safe!

That's the US/UK point of view, greatly bloating a very clever technical triumph

Take a look at fallen.io and you will realize the war was won in the east. Paid with millions of Russian lives...

The impression that Germany was beaten by cracking their codes and bombing their cities is a misconception that affects military doctrine to this day.

War is far more complex than a simple recollection of facts; even more, when those facts are taken out of its original context. It is also true that winners tend to make their versions to look factual. WW2 was one of the most chaotic times in worldwide history, even today, I am not sure that someone has reached a full understanding of everything that happened.

[CSCoder4ever]

I had a thinkpad edge 13 w/ a core 2 duo SU7300 for a while, but it wasn't good enough for my liking. That's why now I am rocking an X220 I bought from ebay over the summer 

But did you upgrade to 16GB 1866mhz RAM.. for m0re Fastness. ??

Show Image

x220 4ever 


(Attachment Link)

that's my ideapad :D
My thinkpad just has 6GB of RAM since it's better than 4 at the very least. And of course an SSD makes anything faster   ;D

[tp4tissue]

I had a thinkpad edge 13 w/ a core 2 duo SU7300 for a while, but it wasn't good enough for my liking. That's why now I am rocking an X220 I bought from ebay over the summer 

But did you upgrade to 16GB 1866mhz RAM.. for m0re Fastness. ??

Show Image

x220 4ever 


(Attachment Link)

that's my ideapad :D
My thinkpad just has 6GB of RAM since it's better than 4 at the very least. And of course an SSD makes anything faster   ;D

X220 really needs 1866 imho,  because it not only speeds --general reactive performance--,  it actually speeds up the Graphics as well, because the Integrated graphics utilizes the onboard DDR3 ram.

So, on the recent bioses they locked the ram to 1333,  which we all know (specific to the sandybridge platform) takes a severe performance impact  relative to 1600,  even more so vs 1866

[digi]

You guys remember the butterfly? Ah the memories..

[menuhin]

You guys remember the butterfly? Ah the memories..

Show Image

It's called and well-known as the "the butterfly keyboard". But after viewing this Gif for a while, I think it should be called the "ThinkPad Sneaky keyboard".  :p

[digi]

You guys remember the butterfly? Ah the memories..

Show Image

It's called and well-known as the "the butterfly keyboard". But after viewing this Gif for a while, I think it should be called the "ThinkPad Sneaky keyboard".  :p

Indeed, I want one just to open and close it all day and never turn it on..

[tp4tissue]

You guys remember the butterfly? Ah the memories..

Show Image

It's called and well-known as the "the butterfly keyboard". But after viewing this Gif for a while, I think it should be called the "ThinkPad Sneaky keyboard".  :p

Indeed, I want one just to open and close it all day and never turn it on..

It's one of those things..  where you look at it.. and you're like..  oh yea.. mmm hmmm..  this is it..  I need this in my life..  Nothing else matters.

[CSCoder4ever]

X220 really needs 1866 imho,  because it not only speeds --general reactive performance--,  it actually speeds up the Graphics as well, because the Integrated graphics utilizes the onboard DDR3 ram.

So, on the recent bioses they locked the ram to 1333,  which we all know (specific to the sandybridge platform) takes a severe performance impact  relative to 1600,  even more so vs 1866

if I didn't have any other laptop, I'd be inclined to agree and add faster & more RAM, but for running *nixes, it does the job well enough.

[digi]

It's one of those things..  where you look at it.. and you're like..  oh yea.. mmm hmmm..  this is it..  I need this in my life..  Nothing else matters.

that is exactly why I have to stay away from Slicksdeals, all I do is order stuff I don't need...I'm so empty inside TP, comfort me, hold me, love me..

[tp4tissue]

It's one of those things..  where you look at it.. and you're like..  oh yea.. mmm hmmm..  this is it..  I need this in my life..  Nothing else matters.

that is exactly why I have to stay away from Slicksdeals, all I do is order stuff I don't need...I'm so empty inside TP, comfort me, hold me, love me..

Look at it this way.. @ least u are not a #Ronery4ever permanent member..

[digi]

It's one of those things..  where you look at it.. and you're like..  oh yea.. mmm hmmm..  this is it..  I need this in my life..  Nothing else matters.

that is exactly why I have to stay away from Slicksdeals, all I do is order stuff I don't need...I'm so empty inside TP, comfort me, hold me, love me..

Look at it this way.. @ least u are not a #Ronery4ever permanent member..

Show Image

 :))

Tp4 = Psychiatrist Consulting Services LLC, I'll be looking forward to a new guide in your signature!

[tp4tissue]

It's one of those things..  where you look at it.. and you're like..  oh yea.. mmm hmmm..  this is it..  I need this in my life..  Nothing else matters.

that is exactly why I have to stay away from Slicksdeals, all I do is order stuff I don't need...I'm so empty inside TP, comfort me, hold me, love me..

Look at it this way.. @ least u are not a #Ronery4ever permanent member..

Show Image

 :))

Tp4 = Psychiatrist Consulting Services LLC, I'll be looking forward to a new guide in your signature!

Perhaps a , How-to-be-#Ronery, guide.

[digi]

It's one of those things..  where you look at it.. and you're like..  oh yea.. mmm hmmm..  this is it..  I need this in my life..  Nothing else matters.

that is exactly why I have to stay away from Slicksdeals, all I do is order stuff I don't need...I'm so empty inside TP, comfort me, hold me, love me..

Look at it this way.. @ least u are not a #Ronery4ever permanent member..

Show Image

 :))

Tp4 = Psychiatrist Consulting Services LLC, I'll be looking forward to a new guide in your signature!

Perhaps a , How-to-be-#Ronery, guide.

Do it! #gofundme

[mike52787]

Still on the x230, Thinking about buying an x1 carbon or x260, but too expensive for my current situation. The x230 still works great for my needs, All I need my laptop to be is indestructible, and the x230 fulfills that well.

[menuhin]

A FHD modded linux-based X220 is still on my list.
I can always send heavy jobs to the clusters.

These mods are everywhere, but sadly, only 1 person is working on a mod that support the docking station, so that when the laptop is docked multiple-monitors will still be supported.

[tp4tissue]

Still on the x230, Thinking about buying an x1 carbon or x260, but too expensive for my current situation. The x230 still works great for my needs, All I need my laptop to be is indestructible, and the x230 fulfills that well.

they are not indestructible.. Only panasonic toughbook remotely has (drop) durability.

x series are made from crispy aluminum alloy + plastic

[menuhin]

Still on the x230, Thinking about buying an x1 carbon or x260, but too expensive for my current situation. The x230 still works great for my needs, All I need my laptop to be is indestructible, and the x230 fulfills that well.

they are not indestructible.. Only panasonic toughbook remotely has (drop) durability.

x series are made from crispy aluminum alloy + plastic

Doesn't X series also have the magnesium alloy roll cage like the T series?
But anyways, I dropped my ThinkPads (T and X) many times, and even when the roll cage might have protected the motherboard, the plastic outer shield corners of the laptops did get dents and chipped. I thought about getting a Toughbook CF-T7, but looking at the specs I can get for the money, and the lack of a Trackpoint, I remained a ThinkPad user.
What 'worry' me is the apparent change of engineering implementation in the Trackpoint from X250 and T450 - users reported the new Trackpoint being less sensitive.

I would be cool to use a full-rugged Toughbook model when I am wearing military uniform and fighting on the correct side of history, not for the profit of the military complex.

[tp4tissue]

Still on the x230, Thinking about buying an x1 carbon or x260, but too expensive for my current situation. The x230 still works great for my needs, All I need my laptop to be is indestructible, and the x230 fulfills that well.

they are not indestructible.. Only panasonic toughbook remotely has (drop) durability.

x series are made from crispy aluminum alloy + plastic

Doesn't X series also have the magnesium alloy roll cage like the T series?
But anyways, I dropped my ThinkPads (T and X) many times, and even when the roll cage might have protected the motherboard, the plastic outer shield corners of the laptops did get dents and chipped. I thought about getting a Toughbook CF-T7, but looking at the specs I can get for the money, and the lack of a Trackpoint, I remained a ThinkPad user.
What 'worry' me is the apparent change of engineering implementation in the Trackpoint from X250 and T450 - users reported the new Trackpoint being less sensitive.

I would be cool to use a full-rugged Toughbook model when I am wearing military uniform and fighting on the correct side of history, not for the profit of the military complex.

magnesium/ aluminum alloy usually means the same thing. I use them interchangeably..


They're really right next to each other.. but yes, some thinkpads have magnesium for weigh.



As for  Military industrial complex..

You couldn't be more off about that..   The best thing that could happen to Germany, is those terrorists moving closer, giving them the Perfect excuse to re-militarize..



EVERY world power was won and built at the end of a barrel.. 

There is no right/ wrong...  it's a matter of having the choice to fight..

And the fact that the outcome of wwii has surpressed that for the axis,  is seed for WWIII..

Just as unresolved tensions from WWI , reparations/ economic inflation pressures.. caused WWII

[menuhin]

bnd cia mossad are from the same pack, nothing has changed since WWII.
Germany sold Dolphin-class nuclear-capable submarines to Israel and the most advanced tanks to the ME lightning fast without any public discussion.
Remains of the 6 millions have yet to be found, it's one of the biggest unsolved mystery of modern history. But for sure it is the truth, everyone publicly questioned it or asked for the evidence through official channels were taken to prison.

I live in Germany, Germans are sometimes cold and remote, lacking a sense of humor but it doesn't mean I cannot be kind to them. They are nice in nature but they're taught to hate themselves from very young age with at least 2 years of brainwashing bombardment - all state funded. Those who didn't believe their grandparents were mass murderers and went seek out evidence with their chemistry and engineering degrees found something else they cannot really say. War history movies stereotyping Germany along the official narrative is the best formula to win Oscar awards. Most of the Germans have serious self-hate and country-identity complex, until the time of world cup or the Euro cup.

War is a great way to generate profit, that's a working formula since the Great Depression. Military grade > industrial grade > domestic grade. That's why DARPA are still having some of the coolest projects in the world.
If I work on the DARPA Grand Challenge, I would need a Toughbook.

Since Lenovo has taken over, it seems that institutions in Germany are switching to Fujitsu. Yet, ThinkPad + Linux is still a very popular combination here.

[ideus]

bnd cia mossad are from the same pack, nothing has changed since WWII.
Germany sold nuclear submarines to Israel and the most advanced tanks to the ME lightning fast without any public discussion.
Remains of the 6 millions have yet to be found, it's one of the biggest unsolved mystery of modern history. But for sure it is the truth, everyone publicly questioned it or asked for the evidence through official channels were taken to prison.

I live in Germany, Germans are sometimes cold and remote, lacking a sense of humor but it doesn't mean I cannot be kind to them. They are nice in nature but they're taught to hate themselves from very young age with at least 2 years of brainwashing bombardment - all state funded. Those who didn't believe their grandparents were mass murderers and went seek out evidence with their chemistry and engineering degrees found something else they cannot really say. Most of them have serious self-hate and country-identity complex, until the world cup or the Euro cup.

War is a great way to generate profit, that's a working formula since the Great Depression. Military grade > industrial grade > domestic grade. That's why DARPA are still having some of the coolest projects in the world.
If I work on the DARPA Grand Challenge, I would need a Toughbook.

Since Lenovo has taken over, it seems that institutions in Germany are switching to Fujitsu. Yet, ThinkPad + Linux is still a very popular combination here.

Today, I learned something on a culture I respect, I have to make my own research on your explanation.

[tp4tissue]

bnd cia mossad are from the same pack, nothing has changed since WWII.
Germany sold nuclear submarines to Israel and the most advanced tanks to the ME lightning fast without any public discussion.
Remains of the 6 millions have yet to be found, it's one of the biggest unsolved mystery of modern history. But for sure it is the truth, everyone publicly questioned it or asked for the evidence through official channels were taken to prison.

I live in Germany, Germans are sometimes cold and remote, lacking a sense of humor but it doesn't mean I cannot be kind to them. They are nice in nature but they're taught to hate themselves from very young age with at least 2 years of brainwashing bombardment - all state funded. Those who didn't believe their grandparents were mass murderers and went seek out evidence with their chemistry and engineering degrees found something else they cannot really say. War history movies stereotyping Germany along the official narrative is the best formula to win Oscar awards. Most of the Germans have serious self-hate and country-identity complex, until the time of world cup or the Euro cup.

War is a great way to generate profit, that's a working formula since the Great Depression. Military grade > industrial grade > domestic grade. That's why DARPA are still having some of the coolest projects in the world.
If I work on the DARPA Grand Challenge, I would need a Toughbook.

Since Lenovo has taken over, it seems that institutions in Germany are switching to Fujitsu. Yet, ThinkPad + Linux is still a very popular combination here.

Yes that's exactly the problem I'm talking about.

Germans are driven and obsessive.. Now the world gives them major psychological trauma just like post wwi...

I fear that one day,  the switch in their ideology flips too quickly,  and they decide,  **** everyone,  We're going to stop making BMWs and just blow the world up and start over.


Overnight they convert their industrial facilities , roll out a bunch of high yield doomsdays, and booom..  the radiation cloud within 3 months travel the world. 98% of the human population is dead or dying.



I think lenovo is a good choice if you want a clean no gimmick machine..   But depending on what type of programmer you are, if you're a grunt programmer, it doesn't matter,   but if you're a developer,  prolly want a macbook just to make life easier.

[vivalarevolución]

Anyways, i just realized that I could buy a W520 or T520 with a quad core and nicer screen rather than try to stuff everything into this T420 and worry about heat issues.  Those are built for a quad core and I would appreciate the bigger screen.

[Flyersfan1]

Won't be long now! I'm really curious if we'll see a ThinkPad retro unveiling.  I think the response to it has been far too large to Lenovo to ignore.  Either way, I'm excited for a thunderbolt 3 t470!

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/5gva9l/the_wait_is_almost_over_thinkpad_2017_press/

[tp4tissue]

I'm getting ready to be disappointed.. because I have been disappointed since the x240 and x250 nad x260

[vivalarevolución]

Won't be long now! I'm really curious if we'll see a ThinkPad retro unveiling.  I think the response to it has been far too large to Lenovo to ignore.  Either way, I'm excited for a thunderbolt 3 t470!

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/5gva9l/the_wait_is_almost_over_thinkpad_2017_press/

Why can't we just go back to good and not have to call it retro.

[nmur]

what's the best "old" (pre-lenovo?) thinkpad?

i have an X41 with all the bells and whistles (former work laptop) running arch but it's like 11 years old now so it's just not cutting it for most things

[sth]

what's the best "old" (pre-lenovo?) thinkpad?

i have an X41 with all the bells and whistles (former work laptop) running arch but it's like 11 years old now so it's just not cutting it for most things

x41s are awesome but i hate the screen resolution.

try to get an x301 on ebay, you should be able to get one for well under 200 bucks. upgrade the RAM and get an mSATA to SATA adapter, then you can use high capacity mSATA storage.
lotta resources here: http://x301.mcdonnelltech.com

[nmur]

what's the best "old" (pre-lenovo?) thinkpad?

i have an X41 with all the bells and whistles (former work laptop) running arch but it's like 11 years old now so it's just not cutting it for most things

x41s are awesome but i hate the screen resolution.

try to get an x301 on ebay, you should be able to get one for well under 200 bucks. upgrade the RAM and get an mSATA to SATA adapter, then you can use high capacity mSATA storage.
lotta resources here: http://x301.mcdonnelltech.com

cheers dude, that looks pretty sweet

i actually don't mind low resolutions, gives me an actual reason to use some cool 9pt monospace fonts

[sth]

what's the best "old" (pre-lenovo?) thinkpad?

i have an X41 with all the bells and whistles (former work laptop) running arch but it's like 11 years old now so it's just not cutting it for most things

x41s are awesome but i hate the screen resolution.

try to get an x301 on ebay, you should be able to get one for well under 200 bucks. upgrade the RAM and get an mSATA to SATA adapter, then you can use high capacity mSATA storage.
lotta resources here: http://x301.mcdonnelltech.com

cheers dude, that looks pretty sweet

i actually don't mind low resolutions, gives me an actual reason to use some cool 9pt monospace fonts

in that case there's always the x6x series- it's lenovo but really similar to x40. nothing will beat the x40s though. i just wish it was easier to pop in a different panel.

[davkol]

Look up X62. There are some guys in China doing drop-in guts for X61.

[sth]

Look up X62. There are some guys in China doing drop-in guts for X61.

**** im actually interested in something you have to say 

[tp4tissue]

sigh.... you guyz are wasting ur time..  all that  --old stuff-- is c2d... slow as molasses...

[sth]

sigh.... you guyz are wasting ur time..  all that  --old stuff-- is c2d... slow as molasses...

your priorities are stupid 100% of the time

[tp4tissue]

sigh.... you guyz are wasting ur time..  all that  --old stuff-- is c2d... slow as molasses...

your priorities so in sync 100% of the time

I agree sth..  My understanding and comprehension of the modern hardware landscape is unparalleled..


hahahahha...

/this kid is still mad at me from losing arguments to Tp4 on the internet..

[sth]

My understanding and comprehension of the modern hardware landscape is unparalleled..

u_____u

[tp4tissue]

My understanding and comprehension of the modern hardware landscape is unparalleled..

u_____u

I'm glad you've seen reason ...  feel free bask in the light of Tp4..

[Leslieann]

While some Core2 models aren't exactly garbage (most are), I wouldn't buy anything with DDR2 memory.

Spending an extra $30 for the next generation Lenovo to get DDR3 can save you money by the time you add extra ram. As a bonus you get Sata3, which is a big deal if you use an SSD.

[tp4tissue]

While some Core2 models aren't exactly garbage (most are), I wouldn't buy anything with DDR2 memory.

Spending an extra $30 for the next generation Lenovo to get DDR3 can save you money by the time you add extra ram. As a bonus you get Sata3, which is a big deal if you use an SSD.

Agree on ddr3..

sata... mmm.. one could live with sata 2 in a laptop..  where's the data gonna go.. fastest thing out of a laptop is usb 3.0 @ 120MB/s ?

[Leslieann]

While some Core2 models aren't exactly garbage (most are), I wouldn't buy anything with DDR2 memory.

Spending an extra $30 for the next generation Lenovo to get DDR3 can save you money by the time you add extra ram. As a bonus you get Sata3, which is a big deal if you use an SSD.

Agree on ddr3..

sata... mmm.. one could live with sata 2 in a laptop..  where's the data gonna go.. fastest thing out of a laptop is usb 3.0 @ 120MB/s ?

You can live with it, but I saw pretty nice performance gains switching from a drive capable of Sata2, to a drive that supported Sata3 in a system that supported sata3.

[PollandAkuma]

The advantages of owning a Thinkpad seems to be durability and the ability to upgrade it. But I was thinking, I have a pretty durable Macbook pro from 2011 that'd be a shame to dump, so I was considering upping the RAM and change HDD to SSD. Is it even worth it? Should I get a thinkpad?

[vivalarevolución]

The advantages of owning a Thinkpad seems to be durability and the ability to upgrade it. But I was thinking, I have a pretty durable Macbook pro from 2011 that'd be a shame to dump, so I was considering upping the RAM and change HDD to SSD. Is it even worth it? Should I get a thinkpad?

I will be upgrading my mother's 2011 Macbook Pro with new RAM and an SSD this weekend.  We'll see how it goes.

My ex-girlfriend did a similar upgrade to her 2010 Macbook Pro and she says that it works great. 

All in all, this type of upgrade should not cost more than $200 and probably will extend the life of your Macbook for at least a couple more years.  If you are concerned with Thinkpad features and the latest components, then a Thinkpad is worth it to you.  If you are concerned with raw performance, I think the Macbook Pro upgrade is worth it.

[tp4tissue]

The advantages of owning a Thinkpad seems to be durability and the ability to upgrade it. But I was thinking, I have a pretty durable Macbook pro from 2011 that'd be a shame to dump, so I was considering upping the RAM and change HDD to SSD. Is it even worth it? Should I get a thinkpad?

I will be upgrading my mother's 2011 Macbook Pro with new RAM and an SSD this weekend.  We'll see how it goes.

My ex-girlfriend did a similar upgrade to her 2010 Macbook Pro and she says that it works great. 

All in all, this type of upgrade should not cost more than $200 and probably will extend the life of your Macbook for at least a couple more years.  If you are concerned with Thinkpad features and the latest components, then a Thinkpad is worth it to you.  If you are concerned with raw performance, I think the Macbook Pro upgrade is worth it.

The macbook is worth upgrading, if that's what you take to the library to impress the females..

Because even a 2011 macbook makes you look wealthier than a 2016 lenovo pleb..


BUHhhhh in terms of performance,  NOTHING pre-sandybridge is worth upgrading....

[PollandAkuma]

I will be upgrading my mother's 2011 Macbook Pro with new RAM and an SSD this weekend.  We'll see how it goes.

My ex-girlfriend did a similar upgrade to her 2010 Macbook Pro and she says that it works great. 

All in all, this type of upgrade should not cost more than $200 and probably will extend the life of your Macbook for at least a couple more years.  If you are concerned with Thinkpad features and the latest components, then a Thinkpad is worth it to you.  If you are concerned with raw performance, I think the Macbook Pro upgrade is worth it.

I'd get a Thinkpad just for the hype, but first I need to find one  I want to kill myself when my Mac takes one minute to start up and one minute to open Firefox... And another one minute to open word...

What are these "Thinkpad features and the latest components" you speak of? I know only about the trackpoint and the nice keyboard. Seems like getting a X220 would be a good choice for me, since I like that style of keys... Preferably in ISO too haha.

[tp4tissue]

No .. that's ridiculous.. do not get an x220.. ur insane..  a fully punched out x220 costs ~$400-500 with all the upgrades..

That much money can buy you a modern laptop with quadcore i7

[menuhin]

More

I will be upgrading my mother's 2011 Macbook Pro with new RAM and an SSD this weekend.  We'll see how it goes.

My ex-girlfriend did a similar upgrade to her 2010 Macbook Pro and she says that it works great. 

All in all, this type of upgrade should not cost more than $200 and probably will extend the life of your Macbook for at least a couple more years.  If you are concerned with Thinkpad features and the latest components, then a Thinkpad is worth it to you.  If you are concerned with raw performance, I think the Macbook Pro upgrade is worth it.

I'd get a Thinkpad just for the hype, but first I need to find one  I want to kill myself when my Mac takes one minute to start up and one minute to open Firefox... And another one minute to open word...

What are these "Thinkpad features and the latest components" you speak of? I know only about the trackpoint and the nice keyboard. Seems like getting a X220 would be a good choice for me, since I like that style of keys... Preferably in ISO too haha.

Think about the FHD mod if you have time and patence to DIY, or if you have $$$ (a FHD modded is about double the price of a nice used model of the same spec).
http://hackaday.com/2016/08/26/making-a-thinkpad-great-again/

[tp4tissue]

More

I will be upgrading my mother's 2011 Macbook Pro with new RAM and an SSD this weekend.  We'll see how it goes.

My ex-girlfriend did a similar upgrade to her 2010 Macbook Pro and she says that it works great. 

All in all, this type of upgrade should not cost more than $200 and probably will extend the life of your Macbook for at least a couple more years.  If you are concerned with Thinkpad features and the latest components, then a Thinkpad is worth it to you.  If you are concerned with raw performance, I think the Macbook Pro upgrade is worth it.

I'd get a Thinkpad just for the hype, but first I need to find one  I want to kill myself when my Mac takes one minute to start up and one minute to open Firefox... And another one minute to open word...

What are these "Thinkpad features and the latest components" you speak of? I know only about the trackpoint and the nice keyboard. Seems like getting a X220 would be a good choice for me, since I like that style of keys... Preferably in ISO too haha.

Think about the FHD mod if you have time and patence to DIY, or if you have $$$ (a FHD modded is about double the price of a nice used model of the same spec).
http://hackaday.com/2016/08/26/making-a-thinkpad-great-again/

omg.. u guys are insane.. hahahahahahaha

U can get an x230 with 1080p  without all that hassle, AND cheaper..


Yes the x220 is legendary among enthusiasts,  but it's still NOT a very good laptop for modern use.

Ur going to buy one.. and boom oh ****, it doesn't have the latest iteration of the LG ips panel...

So you go to amazon.. buy newest LG panel for $60..

OH NO,  i need 1866mhz ram...   go to amazon $100 for 1866mhz laptop ram..

OH NO.. I need SSD to the max..  go to amazon.. $150 for SSD

OH NO... I needz super duper wifi card.. go to amazon.. $40 for wifi card..

OH NO.. .it won't boot with default bios...   spend 10 hours finding the right bios....

OH NO... it' s still slow because the processor is maxed at 2.6ghz.. 

.. Proceeds to buy a new laptop $700..



Total cost of x220... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...

[Flyersfan1]

I thought the x230 was only available in 1376x768? Can I buy a replacement screen for it at a higher resolution?

[tp4tissue]

I thought the x230 was only available in 1376x768? Can I buy a replacement screen for it at a higher resolution?

u are right.. i was thinking of x240..

[mike52787]

Thinking about either a x1 carbon or x260, was considering t460s but the reviews say it has **** battery life. The 1440p screen on the carbon is a very attractive option as well, especially coming from the 1366x768 screen on my x230. one problem, theyre too expensive. optioned like I want them to be, its 1200$+ -_-

[tp4tissue]

Thinking about either a x1 carbon or x260, was considering t460s but the reviews say it has **** battery life. The 1440p screen on the carbon is a very attractive option as well, especially coming from the 1366x768 screen on my x230. one problem, theyre too expensive. optioned like I want them to be, its 1200$+ -_-

get the carbon.. the x260 is single channel again..

[PollandAkuma]

More

I will be upgrading my mother's 2011 Macbook Pro with new RAM and an SSD this weekend.  We'll see how it goes.

My ex-girlfriend did a similar upgrade to her 2010 Macbook Pro and she says that it works great. 

All in all, this type of upgrade should not cost more than $200 and probably will extend the life of your Macbook for at least a couple more years.  If you are concerned with Thinkpad features and the latest components, then a Thinkpad is worth it to you.  If you are concerned with raw performance, I think the Macbook Pro upgrade is worth it.

I'd get a Thinkpad just for the hype, but first I need to find one  I want to kill myself when my Mac takes one minute to start up and one minute to open Firefox... And another one minute to open word...

What are these "Thinkpad features and the latest components" you speak of? I know only about the trackpoint and the nice keyboard. Seems like getting a X220 would be a good choice for me, since I like that style of keys... Preferably in ISO too haha.

Think about the FHD mod if you have time and patence to DIY, or if you have $$$ (a FHD modded is about double the price of a nice used model of the same spec).
http://hackaday.com/2016/08/26/making-a-thinkpad-great-again/

omg.. u guys are insane.. hahahahahahaha

U can get an x230 with 1080p  without all that hassle, AND cheaper..


Yes the x220 is legendary among enthusiasts,  but it's still NOT a very good laptop for modern use.

Ur going to buy one.. and boom oh ****, it doesn't have the latest iteration of the LG ips panel...

So you go to amazon.. buy newest LG panel for $60..

OH NO,  i need 1866mhz ram...   go to amazon $100 for 1866mhz laptop ram..

OH NO.. I need SSD to the max..  go to amazon.. $150 for SSD

OH NO... I needz super duper wifi card.. go to amazon.. $40 for wifi card..

OH NO.. .it won't boot with default bios...   spend 10 hours finding the right bios....

OH NO... it' s still slow because the processor is maxed at 2.6ghz.. 

.. Proceeds to buy a new laptop $700..



Total cost of x220... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...

Are you trying to scare me off Thinkpads? Because i am now wary. Maybe I should just stay with my Macbook since Thinkpads are ****tier in general.

[tp4tissue]

Are you trying to scare me off Thinkpads? Because i am now wary. Maybe I should just stay with my Macbook since Thinkpads are ****tier in general.

Macbook has a VERY SPECIFIC purpose....  When you're a student, you go somewhere with ur laptop.. all the pretty girls will look at your laptop and JUDGE YOU..

That's how the Modern world works ..

So as a young-guy, going out into the wild..    You NEED a Macbook..



Lenovo gives you way way way more machine per dollar, but it is for hardcore neckbeards bordering the #Ronery4ever camp...   

[PollandAkuma]

Macbook has a VERY SPECIFIC purpose....  When you're a student, you go somewhere with ur laptop.. all the pretty girls will look at you and JUDGE YOU..

That's how the Modern world works now..

So as a young-guy, going out into the wild..    You NEED a Macbook..



Lenovo is for hardcore neckbeards bordering the #Ronery4ever camp...

I don't give a **** what other's think if I have something I'm happy with... Giving it more thought maybe a Thinkpad's not such a good idea since I use music composing software sometimes. Ah, RIP my dreams of a new toy...

no comment on your last statement ha

[duynguyenle]

Macbook has a VERY SPECIFIC purpose....  When you're a student, you go somewhere with ur laptop.. all the pretty girls will look at you and JUDGE YOU..

That's how the Modern world works now..

So as a young-guy, going out into the wild..    You NEED a Macbook..



Lenovo is for hardcore neckbeards bordering the #Ronery4ever camp...

I don't give a **** what other's think if I have something I'm happy with... Giving it more thought maybe a Thinkpad's not such a good idea since I use music composing software sometimes. Ah, RIP my dreams of a new toy...

no comment on your last statement ha

I'm sure you can run your music software on a Thinkpad, newer X or T models are pretty good and they are quite easy to service.

[tp4tissue]

I don't give a **** what other's think if I have something I'm happy with... Giving it more thought maybe a Thinkpad's not such a good idea since I use music composing software sometimes. Ah, RIP my dreams of a new toy...

no comment on your last statement ha

Hahahaha  Yea.. I understand that is the attitude you think is __ Cool __ and it solidifies your ego..

But soon enough, you grow older and realize that the opinion of others is 50% or more of your Reality.



Then it would be too late to start dressing stylish, because you missed out on the college girls experience, and in the real world.. it's all work, and no girls..

Even if you do find a girl after college,,   the relationship price is also now way way higher..

[ideus]

Your computer is the last thing a girl does care about you.

[tp4tissue]

Your computer is the last thing a girl does care about you.

hahahaha...

we're gonna go through this again?

when was the last time ideus was 19 and at a college library.


Lest we forget also, my sandwich store thread..

[menuhin]

Your computer is the last thing a girl does care about you.

+1

(except for the super geeky girls who study computer science and computer engineering themselves; but they tend to have lots of stickers on their laptops and give the laptops pet names etc.)

College experience is not just girls by the way. I joined a fraternity and a few clubs, people I met were mostly outdoor people in those years: climbing, trekking, playing music in a gypsy manner, I swore I never wanted to touch computers again.

Oh, were we talking about ThinkPad by the way?

[tp4tissue]

Your computer is the last thing a girl does care about you.

+1

(except for the super geeky girls who study computer science and computer engineering themselves; but they tend to have lots of stickers on their laptops and give the laptops pet names etc.)

College experience is not just girls by the way. I joined a fraternity and a few clubs, people I met were mostly outdoor people in those years: climbing, trekking, playing music in a gypsy manner, I swore I never wanted to touch computers again.

Oh, were we talking about ThinkPad by the way?

That's bull****..

Think about it this way..  You can do all those outdoor things any time..

But ONLY in college are the females pretty open with relationship/cohabitation without significant conditions..

The proximity alone makes relationship cheaply maintainable..


As soon as you leave school... especially in the computer occupation..  ALL NECKBEARDS...  even the women around here haz neckbeards...

SO... yea.. College IS ALL ABOUT the girls...    Education yes,  but MOSTLY you're paying for proximity to females.

[PollandAkuma]

I'm sure you can run your music software on a Thinkpad, newer X or T models are pretty good and they are quite easy to service.

What do you recommend

[duynguyenle]

I'm sure you can run your music software on a Thinkpad, newer X or T models are pretty good and they are quite easy to service.

What do you recommend

Depends on your budget, but I do not under any circumstances, recommend getting a new laptop from Lenovo directly, they tend to be pretty overpriced that way, but you can find T450 or T450s models for like £300-400 on Ebay at new or like new condition.

If you've got cash to spare, the X250/260 or the X1 Carbon is really nice (but the X1 is limited in some ways)

[Leslieann]

Are you trying to scare me off Thinkpads? Because i am now wary. Maybe I should just stay with my Macbook since Thinkpads are ****tier in general.

TP's numbers are TP4 numbers... Crazy, like he is.  )

My X220 was extremely fast, and I had a bit over $300 invested, and that included 2 brand new OEM batteries and a dock.

I paid $170 for an I5 model (higher end I5) with dock, bluetooth, OEM charger, OEM battery, and IPS screen. The owner didn't realize it had an IPS screen (check part numbers).
The speeds of it compared to the I7 were almost no different, however it did lack USB 3, which could be added with a card for very little. I added an efficient 256Gb ssd ($60 already on hand), 16Gb ram ($60) and an OEM battery for $20. Then I learned the original battery had a recall, so Lenovo sent me another for free. I added a 450meg Wireless card for $6 (already on hand). I had no trouble finding bios to whitelist the card (all of 10 minutes).

[Leslieann]

I'm sure you can run your music software on a Thinkpad, newer X or T models are pretty good and they are quite easy to service.

What do you recommend

Depends on your budget, but I do not under any circumstances, recommend getting a new laptop from Lenovo directly, they tend to be pretty overpriced that way, but you can find T450 or T450s models for like £300-400 on Ebay at new or like new condition.

If you've got cash to spare, the X250/260 or the X1 Carbon is really nice (but the X1 is limited in some ways)

Agreed, never buy Lenovo high end models new as they are overpriced for consumers, used though, they are one of the best bargains you can get.

As for recommendations, it depends on the size you want and what you can spend. I would stay clear of the X240 and T440 as they are locked down in the bios, while everything before and after can be bios modded, at least to whitelist the wifi card. If you want something smaller and more lightweight, you could also consider a Macbook Air. 4Gb models are rather cheap ($300) and plentiful if you want to stick with Mac, however, the screen resolution isn't great but on an 11in screen, a higher density is kind of tricky to get right.  Be sure to read below if you consider this.


Regarding the older Mac
Older Macbooks do just fine with mild upgrades, I worked on a (2010?) C2d Imac with 2gb of ram and a normal hdd,  it actually ran decent. I'm not saying it was fast, but it ran better than a lot of newer Windows systems with double and sometimes even quadruple the ram. Even this year, Mac owners were encouraging people to buy Macbook Airs with only 4gigs of ram. Personally, I wouldn't but that's because I dual and sometimes triple boot mine but I can see how they can get away with it as Mac uses memory super efficiently. 8gb 11in Airs can be found but they can cost more than twice as much, and be much harder to find that perfect one (4Gb outsold 8gb models by about 40:1).

[vivalarevolución]

Tp4tissue likes to troll about Thinkpads, take it easy, guys.

[vivalarevolución]

I will be upgrading my mother's 2011 Macbook Pro with new RAM and an SSD this weekend.  We'll see how it goes.

My ex-girlfriend did a similar upgrade to her 2010 Macbook Pro and she says that it works great. 

All in all, this type of upgrade should not cost more than $200 and probably will extend the life of your Macbook for at least a couple more years.  If you are concerned with Thinkpad features and the latest components, then a Thinkpad is worth it to you.  If you are concerned with raw performance, I think the Macbook Pro upgrade is worth it.

I'd get a Thinkpad just for the hype, but first I need to find one  I want to kill myself when my Mac takes one minute to start up and one minute to open Firefox... And another one minute to open word...

What are these "Thinkpad features and the latest components" you speak of? I know only about the trackpoint and the nice keyboard. Seems like getting a X220 would be a good choice for me, since I like that style of keys... Preferably in ISO too haha.

Latest components is stuff like 6th gen processors, DDR4 RAM, better wi-fi card, etc.

Beyond what you mentioned about Thinkpads, they are durable, easily upgradeable compared to a Mac, lower price, more options and customization.  Generally what Thinkpads are known for.

[tp4tissue]

Tp4tissue likes to troll about Thinkpads, take it easy, guys.

How dare u...

Tp4 haz x220 mastery lvl 999....


Leslieann is giving you --off hand-- pricing which only works if you had all those things laying around..


Which is far less realistic a pricing quote than my list.     

[Leslieann]

Leslieann is giving you --off hand-- pricing which only works if you had all those things laying around..

Receipts from when I built mine.






I don't remember which exact card I used (I sold my X220 for $450 a few months ago) but here is one for comparison.
450meg wifi card  Intel 5300 or 6300 $7.50 - Ebay

[duynguyenle]

Just chiming in with my ebay'd T440s from last year:


You do have to hunt around for deals like this, Buy It Now prices tend to be around £300-400 for newer models, but the newer models do have some quality of life-type improvements over the venerable X220 that does make it the experience better (mainly improvements in CPU and battery life, larger and more responsive trackpad). Stay well away of the X240/T440 series as someone noted the locked down BIOS and what I view as a cardinal sin (removal of track point buttons above the trackpad), but that laptop was for my brother to do his university work and he doesn't care too much for the track point.

You can get a like-new T450 right now for £350 buy it now price, which is a pretty decent deal.

[tp4tissue]

Leslieann is giving you --off hand-- pricing which only works if you had all those things laying around..

Receipts from when I built mine.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)


I don't remember which exact card I used (I sold my X220 for $450 a few months ago) but here is one for comparison.
450meg wifi card  Intel 5300 or 6300 $7.50 - Ebay

That's the wrong ram.. need 16gb 1866 to fully xperience the glory of x220

Gotta get on the wifi AC if you buy a card today.

there are several different versions of the IPS, the first 2 iterations had banding issues..  Only the later ones were fixed.

SSD side, 512gb is recommended to get any productivity suite going on there.

[Leslieann]

That's the wrong ram.. need 16gb 1866 to fully xperience the glory of x220

Gotta get on the wifi AC if you buy a card today.

there are several different versions of the IPS, the first 2 iterations had banding issues..  Only the later ones were fixed.

SSD side, 512gb is recommended to get any productivity suite going on there.

No, you don't need that ram. With 16gb it's still plenty fast compared to anything in it's class even today. Would it be faster, of course, but it's not required to make a beast of a laptop.

Wireless AC is useless unless you have a file server to store large files, most people are not transferring that much data back and forth on a laptop. N150 is enough to stream HD, 300 is enough to stream HD while transferring files or surfing.  Beyond that you get diminishing returns every step up.

IPS, Lenovo puts manufacturing dates right on the bottom of the laptop, mine had no banding. If you work outdoors, get IPS, if you work indoors, especially at night liek i do, you may actually prefer the TFT. In low light settings the IPS is like having a flashlight shone in your face. Screens are $60 and a 10 minute swap.

Drive size,
There are six 480-512gb drives currently on Newegg for $109), that's only $40 more. Not a big deal.
That said, I get by just fine on 256, even with triple boot, Solidworks and Photoshop, as would 90% of people (in my experience, most people have less than 200gigs on their system). Productivity suites do not require 200 gigs of data.  At any rate, the X220 allows for 2 drives to be installed, you can easily add a second drive later if you need the space. The T420 you can ditch the dvd and add a second drive.

[duynguyenle]

That's the wrong ram.. need 16gb 1866 to fully xperience the glory of x220

Gotta get on the wifi AC if you buy a card today.

there are several different versions of the IPS, the first 2 iterations had banding issues..  Only the later ones were fixed.

SSD side, 512gb is recommended to get any productivity suite going on there.

No, you don't need that ram. With 16gb it's still plenty fast compared to anything in it's class even today. Would it be faster, of course, but it's not required to make a beast of a laptop.

Wireless AC is useless unless you have a file server to store large files, most people are not transferring that much data back and forth on a laptop. N150 is enough to stream HD, 300 is enough to stream HD while transferring files or surfing.  Beyond that you get diminishing returns every step up.

IPS, Lenovo puts manufacturing dates right on the bottom of the laptop, mine had no banding. If you work outdoors, get IPS, if you work indoors, especially at night liek i do, you may actually prefer the TFT. In low light settings the IPS is like having a flashlight shone in your face. Screens are $60 and a 10 minute swap.

Drive size,
There are six 480-512gb drives currently on Newegg for $109), that's only $40 more. Not a big deal.
That said, I get by just fine on 256, even with triple boot, Solidworks and Photoshop, as would 90% of people (in my experience, most people have less than 200gigs on their system). Productivity suites do not require 200 gigs of data.  At any rate, the X220 allows for 2 drives to be installed, you can easily add a second drive later if you need the space. The T420 you can ditch the dvd and add a second drive.

Psst, I think he's trolling 

[vivalarevolución]

Tp4tissue likes to troll about Thinkpads, take it easy, guys.

How dare u...

Tp4 haz x220 mastery lvl 999....


Leslieann is giving you --off hand-- pricing which only works if you had all those things laying around..


Which is far less realistic a pricing quote than my list.     

Show Image

My bad, I will return to bowing down in worship.

[Leslieann]

That's the wrong ram.. need 16gb 1866 to fully xperience the glory of x220

Gotta get on the wifi AC if you buy a card today.

there are several different versions of the IPS, the first 2 iterations had banding issues..  Only the later ones were fixed.

SSD side, 512gb is recommended to get any productivity suite going on there.

No, you don't need that ram. With 16gb it's still plenty fast compared to anything in it's class even today. Would it be faster, of course, but it's not required to make a beast of a laptop.

Wireless AC is useless unless you have a file server to store large files, most people are not transferring that much data back and forth on a laptop. N150 is enough to stream HD, 300 is enough to stream HD while transferring files or surfing.  Beyond that you get diminishing returns every step up.

IPS, Lenovo puts manufacturing dates right on the bottom of the laptop, mine had no banding. If you work outdoors, get IPS, if you work indoors, especially at night liek i do, you may actually prefer the TFT. In low light settings the IPS is like having a flashlight shone in your face. Screens are $60 and a 10 minute swap.

Drive size,
There are six 480-512gb drives currently on Newegg for $109), that's only $40 more. Not a big deal.
That said, I get by just fine on 256, even with triple boot, Solidworks and Photoshop, as would 90% of people (in my experience, most people have less than 200gigs on their system). Productivity suites do not require 200 gigs of data.  At any rate, the X220 allows for 2 drives to be installed, you can easily add a second drive later if you need the space. The T420 you can ditch the dvd and add a second drive.

Psst, I think he's trolling 

You know the saying you know hes lying because his lips are moving...  With Tp, you know he's trolling when his fingers are moving.

[tp4tissue]

Tp4tissue likes to troll about Thinkpads, take it easy, guys.

How dare u...

Tp4 haz x220 mastery lvl 999....


Leslieann is giving you --off hand-- pricing which only works if you had all those things laying around..


Which is far less realistic a pricing quote than my list.     

Show Image

My bad, I will return to bowing down in worship.

[vivalarevolución]

So I got one of them Thinkpad Yoga 260s.   Dual booting with Ubuntu Gnome to have some Linux touch screen action.  Not bad when most of the touch screen stuff actually works.

[Findecanor]

Has anybody seen these Chinese replacement motherboards for old Thinkpads?

They look very sweet at first glance... Modern i7-HQ CPU (not socketed), dual SO-DIMM slots, dual M.2. slots and SATA.

[no, the other guy]

I looked at Thinkpads but didn't like the direction Lenovo was going

Three years after, ThinkPads have:

• a worse display than the IBM models
• a worse keyboard than the IBM models
• a worse reputation than the IBM models

I bought a cheap T60 a few years ago. I still keep it for random things (although it has become too weak to be used for actual work). It is still fine, except the aging cooler and the notorious lack of USB ports. Which is ongoing as far as I have seen...

[ideus]

Has anybody seen these Chinese replacement motherboards for old Thinkpads?

They look very sweet at first glance... Modern i7-HQ CPU (not socketed), dual SO-DIMM slots, dual M.2. slots and SATA.

The chance to put one of these good old TP to work again is nice. But, the site and all is very confusing. Also, it seems that demand is much higher than supply and that is a death combo for final consumers, price-wise.

[tp4tissue]

Has anybody seen these Chinese replacement motherboards for old Thinkpads?

They look very sweet at first glance... Modern i7-HQ CPU (not socketed), dual SO-DIMM slots, dual M.2. slots and SATA.

The chance to put one of these good old TP to work again is nice. But, the site and all is very confusing. Also, it seems that demand is much higher than supply and that is a death combo for final consumers, price-wise.

If you're in it for the Fashion of something-Old,  Hipster style..

Sure..

But , it's not very practical.. You can get a newer laptop with Much better batteries for that price..

[Leslieann]

I looked into these and other mods that are available, there is always a compromise somewhere as you are modifying an OLD laptop. Batteries, replacement parts, support, costs, and then there are the things you don't even think about, like how modern media is all widescreen. These are often low production numbers and you have no idea where it's made. I'm not saying these mods are not cool and do extend the life of a product, but at what cost and compromise.

$740 for a 5th gen I5 X200?  Don't forget you will have to buy new ram so let's make it a $850.
Do you have any idea what kind of used notebook you can get for $850? Certainly one that will cream this in any test you can throw at it.

[ideus]

Those prices make this a bad choice economic-wise. It is always better just to buy a new lappy. I really do not see the point to resurrect an old hardware if for the same money you can get brand new everything. I really like my old X61T but it does not make sense to invest good money in such an old piece of hardware.

[Findecanor]

modern media is all widescreen.

If the primary task is to watch movies, then maybe a Thinkpad wasn't then best choice in the first place.

The point of resurrecting an old ThinkPad would be the screen's aspect ratio ... and of course the keyboard.

[ideus]

modern media is all widescreen.

If the primary task is to watch movies, then maybe a Thinkpad wasn't then best choice in the first place.

The point of resurrecting an old ThinkPad would be the screen's aspect ratio ... and of course the keyboard.

I am a thinkpad fan-boi. But, truth be told, keyboard alone does not justify to tolerate the other low spec hardware, particularly the old materials in batteries. I am writing this with my favorite custom keyboard wired to the T460s docked with a nice high res display. I will never be able to do the same with my old X61T even with the upgraded mother board. My current setup has a dedicated graphics card, 20G or RAM the fastest NVme SDD. What motivation I may have to retroing to my old TP for a price?

[Leslieann]

modern media is all widescreen.

If the primary task is to watch movies, then maybe a Thinkpad wasn't then best choice in the first place.

The point of resurrecting an old ThinkPad would be the screen's aspect ratio ... and of course the keyboard.

I understand some people like the old ratio (and the keyboard), but you are paying an VERY heavy  price for those two items.

I am a thinkpad fan-boi. But, truth be told, keyboard alone does not justify to tolerate the other low spec hardware, particularly the old materials in batteries. I am writing this with my favorite custom keyboard wired to the T460s docked with a nice high res display. I will never be able to do the same with my old X61T even with the upgraded mother board. My current setup has a dedicated graphics card, 20G or RAM the fastest NVme SDD. What motivation I may have to retroing to my old TP for a price?

They do have NVME and can handle equal amounts of ram, but the processor price goes up from $740 depending on generation and model (they have newer), so you really do get a modern board. You also have to spend a bunch for a "rare" IPS display for it if you want a modern screen and none of that does anything for weight, thickness or battery.

By the time you get done with everything I have little doubt you could dump $1500 into it, which is just INSANE for an old system. I refuse to spend that much on a new laptop, much less a used one. I've had new laptops worth more than this, I just did not pay that much for them.

Then again, I also don't walk around with a $1000 brand new cell phone, much to the surprise of my customers.

[ideus]

@leslieann: Totally agree on your point. The retro feeling does not justify the complexity of sourcing everthing to update the old system enough to compete with an otherwise decent modern system.I can dump the retro feeling for something useful for my work.