Author Topic: Buying thinkpads  (Read 14400 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline trenzafeeds

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1352
  • Location: vt
  • **** off
Buying thinkpads
« on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 16:50:40 »
I want to buy a thinkpad for under $650 to do mostly programming and some casual gaming (basically just Dota and TF2). Right now I'm pretty into the Lenovo Carbon X1, the 2013 edition goes for like $500 on ebay. If anyone else has suggestions/input I'd love to hear.
demik will never leave.

Unless he gets banned.

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2735
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 16:56:05 »
I want to buy a thinkpad for under $650 to do mostly programming and some casual gaming (basically just Dota and TF2). Right now I'm pretty into the Lenovo Carbon X1, the 2013 edition goes for like $500 on ebay. If anyone else has suggestions/input I'd love to hear.

Dell XPS perhaps? Might be too expensive.. I didn't know that the Carbon was relatively cheap.
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline trenzafeeds

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1352
  • Location: vt
  • **** off
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 16:58:08 »
Dell XPS perhaps? Might be too expensive.. I didn't know that the Carbon was relatively cheap.

It's not, I'm looking at overstocks on ebay. Hence the 2013 edition. I'll look at the dell. I just really like thinkpads a lot.
demik will never leave.

Unless he gets banned.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 18:32:30 »
double check if the carbon has dual channel ram.. 

I remember they started turning the x1 carbon with only --single channel--..

Also the ram i think is not user upgradable, not sure which version..


Here's the issue with the "NEW" thinkpads,  they're becoming less and less user-serviceable.. and the bios mods require an external programmer, and desoldering of bios chip..  not even sure if you can even get to it on the x1 carbon..


I'd recommend an Asus, because anything goes on the Asus.. hahahahhahaha.. they don't have the build quality though..


So if you're Definitly getting a thinkpad,  get a high speced one, otherwise, you won't really be able to upgrade anything inside of the new versions..  like wificard/storage ssd/ etc...

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2735
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 18:44:42 »
double check if the carbon has dual channel ram.. 

I remember they started turning the x1 carbon with only --single channel--..

Also the ram i think is not user upgradable, not sure which version..


Here's the issue with the "NEW" thinkpads,  they're becoming less and less user-serviceable.. and the bios mods require an external programmer, and desoldering of bios chip..  not even sure if you can even get to it on the x1 carbon..


I'd recommend an Asus, because anything goes on the Asus.. hahahahhahaha.. they don't have the build quality though..


So if you're Definitly getting a thinkpad,  get a high speced one, otherwise, you won't really be able to upgrade anything inside of the new versions..  like wificard/storage ssd/ etc...

That's what is slowly driving me to a custom build.. Macs are increasingly glued, even the high end. Wtf! So if I would buy a new retina MacBook Pro today, I HAVE to order highest gpu, cpu, mem, AND ssd. Ridiculous.
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 19:32:57 »
double check if the carbon has dual channel ram.. 

I remember they started turning the x1 carbon with only --single channel--..

Also the ram i think is not user upgradable, not sure which version..


Here's the issue with the "NEW" thinkpads,  they're becoming less and less user-serviceable.. and the bios mods require an external programmer, and desoldering of bios chip..  not even sure if you can even get to it on the x1 carbon..


I'd recommend an Asus, because anything goes on the Asus.. hahahahhahaha.. they don't have the build quality though..


So if you're Definitly getting a thinkpad,  get a high speced one, otherwise, you won't really be able to upgrade anything inside of the new versions..  like wificard/storage ssd/ etc...

That's what is slowly driving me to a custom build.. Macs are increasingly glued, even the high end. Wtf! So if I would buy a new retina MacBook Pro today, I HAVE to order highest gpu, cpu, mem, AND ssd. Ridiculous.

what custom build.. hahaha..

Offline Connly33

  • Posts: 221
  • Location: Medford OR, US
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 19:39:55 »
double check if the carbon has dual channel ram.. 

I remember they started turning the x1 carbon with only --single channel--..

Also the ram i think is not user upgradable, not sure which version..


Here's the issue with the "NEW" thinkpads,  they're becoming less and less user-serviceable.. and the bios mods require an external programmer, and desoldering of bios chip..  not even sure if you can even get to it on the x1 carbon..


I'd recommend an Asus, because anything goes on the Asus.. hahahahhahaha.. they don't have the build quality though..


So if you're Definitly getting a thinkpad,  get a high speced one, otherwise, you won't really be able to upgrade anything inside of the new versions..  like wificard/storage ssd/ etc...

That's what is slowly driving me to a custom build.. Macs are increasingly glued, even the high end. Wtf! So if I would buy a new retina MacBook Pro today, I HAVE to order highest gpu, cpu, mem, AND ssd. Ridiculous.

what custom build.. hahaha..

Afew small companies like Puget systems do custom laptops to order that are fully upgradable/ serviceable.

Custom 60% with Cherry MX Clear

Offline Connly33

  • Posts: 221
  • Location: Medford OR, US
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 19:41:41 »

Custom 60% with Cherry MX Clear

Offline byker

  • Literally Canada
  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Posts: 3136
  • Location: Gone fishin
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 19:42:15 »
double check if the carbon has dual channel ram.. 

I remember they started turning the x1 carbon with only --single channel--..

Also the ram i think is not user upgradable, not sure which version..


Here's the issue with the "NEW" thinkpads,  they're becoming less and less user-serviceable.. and the bios mods require an external programmer, and desoldering of bios chip..  not even sure if you can even get to it on the x1 carbon..


I'd recommend an Asus, because anything goes on the Asus.. hahahahhahaha.. they don't have the build quality though..


So if you're Definitly getting a thinkpad,  get a high speced one, otherwise, you won't really be able to upgrade anything inside of the new versions..  like wificard/storage ssd/ etc...

That's what is slowly driving me to a custom build.. Macs are increasingly glued, even the high end. Wtf! So if I would buy a new retina MacBook Pro today, I HAVE to order highest gpu, cpu, mem, AND ssd. Ridiculous.

A little off topic from OP, but what i have done in the past is buy a macbook with 3 year applecare, and sell it after a year or two to upgrade. Often with the extended applecare I can sell it for a minimal loss, barely losing any money over time. :)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 19:50:51 »
Of course you really pay for it.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/traverse/pro_15/customize.php

Oh..  well idk if these are to be compared to the modern concept of a laptop.. hahaha..

I think they call these Mobile workstations,  they're pretty heavy... you'd hate to carry them around..

3lbs is around the cutoff for uncomfortable..

Offline Connly33

  • Posts: 221
  • Location: Medford OR, US
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 20:10:07 »
Of course you really pay for it.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/traverse/pro_15/customize.php

Oh..  well idk if these are to be compared to the modern concept of a laptop.. hahaha..

I think they call these Mobile workstations,  they're pretty heavy... you'd hate to carry them around..

3lbs is around the cutoff for uncomfortable..

For most things i do i'm fine with my haswell celeron chromebook running linux that's only a couple pounds , but unless i'm walking long distances id be fine with a 5-8 LB laptop.

Custom 60% with Cherry MX Clear

Offline retrochick

  • Posts: 600
  • goodbye my wallet
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 20:11:33 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:


Cherry is love. Topre is life. ~raymogi

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 20:12:17 »
Of course you really pay for it.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/traverse/pro_15/customize.php

Oh..  well idk if these are to be compared to the modern concept of a laptop.. hahaha..

I think they call these Mobile workstations,  they're pretty heavy... you'd hate to carry them around..

3lbs is around the cutoff for uncomfortable..

For most things i do i'm fine with my haswell celeron chromebook running linux that's only a couple pounds , but unless i'm walking long distances id be fine with a 5-8 LB laptop.

remember that laptop is 7 lbs,  + the power adapter which is another 3 lbs.. hahahahaha..

Offline Connly33

  • Posts: 221
  • Location: Medford OR, US
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 02 February 2016, 20:18:59 »
Of course you really pay for it.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/traverse/pro_15/customize.php

Oh..  well idk if these are to be compared to the modern concept of a laptop.. hahaha..

I think they call these Mobile workstations,  they're pretty heavy... you'd hate to carry them around..

3lbs is around the cutoff for uncomfortable..

For most things i do i'm fine with my haswell celeron chromebook running linux that's only a couple pounds , but unless i'm walking long distances id be fine with a 5-8 LB laptop.

remember that laptop is 7 lbs,  + the power adapter which is another 3 lbs.. hahahahaha..

A large power supply would make it a bit unwieldy

Custom 60% with Cherry MX Clear

Offline KingRama

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 1171
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
  • www.rama.works
    • RAMA WORKS®
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 02:33:43 »
I'm with you on liking Thinkpads. There's just something about them, they're just so functionalist looking it's awesome hah.

I have the W520 portable workstation as I used heaps of CAD software / Rendering stuff and it runs it all pre well :D


Love the idea of getting a Carbon though, would be so much easier to lug around, seriously the W520 is cumbersome (especially the power supply 170W 20V).

But yeah, I think either between the Carbon X1, XPS or the new Razer Blade Stealth (I know, but, I actually really like it, pretty nice for an ultrabook :O) (not around 650 woops)
« Last Edit: Wed, 03 February 2016, 02:36:22 by KingRama »
Didn't notice my personal messages have been disabled for those thinking you have been blocked - to contact please reach out through Facebook messages or support email!
WEB: https://rama.works/
STORE: https://ramaworks.store/
INSTA: @ramaworks
FB: ramaworks

Offline senso

  • Posts: 47
  • Location: Portugal
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 06:50:14 »
Of course you really pay for it.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/traverse/pro_15/customize.php

Just to say that those are Clevos and there is a lot of re-sellers, like XMG, Xoptic and others, NBR foruns are the right place to find the best reseller nearest to your location.

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2735
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 07:13:41 »
double check if the carbon has dual channel ram.. 

I remember they started turning the x1 carbon with only --single channel--..

Also the ram i think is not user upgradable, not sure which version..


Here's the issue with the "NEW" thinkpads,  they're becoming less and less user-serviceable.. and the bios mods require an external programmer, and desoldering of bios chip..  not even sure if you can even get to it on the x1 carbon..


I'd recommend an Asus, because anything goes on the Asus.. hahahahhahaha.. they don't have the build quality though..


So if you're Definitly getting a thinkpad,  get a high speced one, otherwise, you won't really be able to upgrade anything inside of the new versions..  like wificard/storage ssd/ etc...

That's what is slowly driving me to a custom build.. Macs are increasingly glued, even the high end. Wtf! So if I would buy a new retina MacBook Pro today, I HAVE to order highest gpu, cpu, mem, AND ssd. Ridiculous.

what custom build.. hahaha..

That's the isssue... you cannot really custom-build something like a mbp retina. But I could build my own workstation but that wouldn't help me on the road... Aaaaargh
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2735
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 07:14:32 »
Of course you really pay for it.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/traverse/pro_15/customize.php

All of a sudden Apple laptops feel cheap and affordable..
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2735
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 07:16:37 »
double check if the carbon has dual channel ram.. 

I remember they started turning the x1 carbon with only --single channel--..

Also the ram i think is not user upgradable, not sure which version..


Here's the issue with the "NEW" thinkpads,  they're becoming less and less user-serviceable.. and the bios mods require an external programmer, and desoldering of bios chip..  not even sure if you can even get to it on the x1 carbon..


I'd recommend an Asus, because anything goes on the Asus.. hahahahhahaha.. they don't have the build quality though..


So if you're Definitly getting a thinkpad,  get a high speced one, otherwise, you won't really be able to upgrade anything inside of the new versions..  like wificard/storage ssd/ etc...

That's what is slowly driving me to a custom build.. Macs are increasingly glued, even the high end. Wtf! So if I would buy a new retina MacBook Pro today, I HAVE to order highest gpu, cpu, mem, AND ssd. Ridiculous.

A little off topic from OP, but what i have done in the past is buy a macbook with 3 year applecare, and sell it after a year or two to upgrade. Often with the extended applecare I can sell it for a minimal loss, barely losing any money over time. :)

I usually do the opposite. I try to use my laptop as long as possible up to the point where I can justify that the purchase price of the mac is cheaper over time compared to a laptop that would have failed years ago by now.

I really HATE buying new laptops... you always have to wait and see whether you have dead pixels, fan is ok, batteries are ok, etc. Whether it will last. So I try to do as long with a laptop as I possibly can. I only replace them when screens begin to fail, or the battery, or when they become really REALLY slow.
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2735
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 07:17:41 »
I'm with you on liking Thinkpads. There's just something about them, they're just so functionalist looking it's awesome hah.

I have the W520 portable workstation as I used heaps of CAD software / Rendering stuff and it runs it all pre well :D


Love the idea of getting a Carbon though, would be so much easier to lug around, seriously the W520 is cumbersome (especially the power supply 170W 20V).

But yeah, I think either between the Carbon X1, XPS or the new Razer Blade Stealth (I know, but, I actually really like it, pretty nice for an ultrabook :O) (not around 650 woops)

I think Lenovo's are the only laptops with a decent enough keyboard. The rest sucks IMHO, except perhaps for some Dell laptops.. but Dell/HP is EVIL to me.
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline Altis

  • Posts: 974
  • Location: Canada
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 18:51:08 »
I'm with you on liking Thinkpads. There's just something about them, they're just so functionalist looking it's awesome hah.

I have the W520 portable workstation as I used heaps of CAD software / Rendering stuff and it runs it all pre well :D


Love the idea of getting a Carbon though, would be so much easier to lug around, seriously the W520 is cumbersome (especially the power supply 170W 20V).

But yeah, I think either between the Carbon X1, XPS or the new Razer Blade Stealth (I know, but, I actually really like it, pretty nice for an ultrabook :O) (not around 650 woops)

I think Lenovo's are the only laptops with a decent enough keyboard. The rest sucks IMHO, except perhaps for some Dell laptops.. but Dell/HP is EVIL to me.

I love the keyboard on my T450s. It was a large part of why I chose this laptop.

The only thing is that I rarely ever use it since I have a desktop at home and a work laptop. Unfortunate but I should realistically sell it.
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline hullo8d

  • Posts: 29
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 20:00:57 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

yeah the older ibm thinkpads were the best, i have a t60 myself. i think it's worth dealing with old hardware just for the ibm rgb logo alone.

the newer lenovo thinkpads aren't to special, so i wouldn't limit myself to just the series if i was buying new hardware. but hey, that's just me!

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:10:06 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

yeah the older ibm thinkpads were the best, i have a t60 myself. i think it's worth dealing with old hardware just for the ibm rgb logo alone.

the newer lenovo thinkpads aren't to special, so i wouldn't limit myself to just the series if i was buying new hardware. but hey, that's just me!

I think all the new gear are significantly improved..  the only real downside is that they are no longer user-serviceable..

That doesn't mean the new gears are bad,   it's a shift in market strategy.

Offline jchan94

  • Keyclack Inc
  • * Vendor
  • Posts: 1566
  • Location: Los Angeles
  • Please email jchan@keyclack.com. PMs are disabled
    • KeyClack
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 05 February 2016, 04:34:43 »
You'd be surprise to see how much better the battery is in the newest vs 2013 edition.

Battery life is definitely a huge consideration when thinking about such a thin laptop such as X1
Support Email: support@keyclack.com

Did you miss something from us?
- Sign up for our Mailing List: https://eepurl.com/coAJ5r

Offline azhdar

  • Praise the AZERTY god
  • Posts: 2435
  • Location: France
  • 65% Enlightened
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 05 February 2016, 04:36:16 »
Be careful with the pad you have on the thinkpad, this T440 thinkpad at work got the ****tiest trackpad I ever used on a laptop
Azerty Propagandiste

Offline trenzafeeds

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1352
  • Location: vt
  • **** off
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:47:03 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

Yes I think we can all agree that the IBM pads are the best laptops ever created.
demik will never leave.

Unless he gets banned.

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2735
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:55:44 »
Friend of mine got a thinkpad... that ding is near indestructible. Spilled beer over it.. no problem. Stepped on it accidentally.. no problem. Only the trackpad is not superb, but that's the only thing. Even battery life is decent enough in ubuntu.
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline hullo8d

  • Posts: 29
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 07 February 2016, 00:47:36 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

yeah the older ibm thinkpads were the best, i have a t60 myself. i think it's worth dealing with old hardware just for the ibm rgb logo alone.

the newer lenovo thinkpads aren't to special, so i wouldn't limit myself to just the series if i was buying new hardware. but hey, that's just me!

I think all the new gear are significantly improved..  the only real downside is that they are no longer user-serviceable..

That doesn't mean the new gears are bad,   it's a shift in market strategy.

are you saying that the build quality has improved more than the older ibm thinkpads, or are you talking about the form factor?

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 07 February 2016, 02:18:48 »

I think all the new gear are significantly improved..  the only real downside is that they are no longer user-serviceable..

That doesn't mean the new gears are bad,   it's a shift in market strategy.

are you saying that the build quality has improved more than the older ibm thinkpads, or are you talking about the form factor?

Of course build quality has improved..  Magnesium alloy chassis for example....

Offline hullo8d

  • Posts: 29
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 07 February 2016, 02:34:51 »
Of course build quality has improved..  Magnesium alloy chassis for example....

it's just so hard for me to imagine improving on these tanks ibm built.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 07 February 2016, 20:06:43 »
Not all Thinkpads have magnesium frames, and it's not a new addition.
Build quality on Thinkpads depends greatly on the model, and generation. Some of the first Lenovo branded models were terrible, but the IBM models were not infallible either. I can't tell you how many times I've seen "CPU fan failure", which is grossly misunderstood.


Best advice, for consumer level laptops, if you spend under about $800, Asus will give you the most for the money, just make sure it's an Intel I series.
Consumer laptops are engineered to last through the warranty under mild abuse. They rarely have more metal than an aluminum can, and use lots of flashy plastic to make them look better than they are.

If you want a good laptops, you really want to look at small business/corporate grade laptops as they offer better return on your investment. These are the HP Pro line, Dell XPS, Thinkpad x and T series (NOT Ideapad), etc... Not always spectacular to look at, but are more durable, easier to work on, and they are known to get the job done. These are where you can get cheap parts and good customer service. Beware, these fall like rocks on the second hand market, which is where I prefer to buy them and where they make a ton of sense. Buy a 2 or 3 year old Thinkpad with a low end I3, add an i5 or I7, throw in your SSD and ram and you might have $300 invested. If it breaks, you can replace almost anything on it for $20-$40. You can often get 7 useful years out of one of these if you aren't gaming and can often upgrade them a few times.

The best are executive class laptops, these are the Lenovo Carbon, old Sony Vaio Carbon fiber, Mac, etc..  They are pretty durable and have good looks. These often top $2000, and while they are the best of the bunch, when something goes wrong, they are expensive to fix, and I've found the manufacturers do not bend over to help like you would expect (Apple is the exception, not the norm). Resell on these laptops remains high, but so do parts to keep them running. 5 year old Sony high end laptops can easily retain 50% of their resale value, Macs are even higher.

Keep in mind, on many executive class laptops, they are often single or dual year models, so parts from one generation will not interchange with newer ones. Like on Thinkpads, the batteries can swap between several years, not so on a Sony or Mac. They have a high turnover, less testing, and as a result, are not always as refined as people think. The hinges on the old Macbook Air is a good example (they ripped out). You don't see these problems on Thinkpads because they test like crazy and re-use the same designs over and over again.

I like executive class, I've had several, but for work, I MUCH prefer something I can afford to repair. Last time my Sony was damaged, it was 5 years old and Sony wanted $500 just for the part, labor was another $200. As a whole, the laptop was worth more, but every time it was damaged it was $50 or even hundreds of dollars. I did fix the Sony, I found a replacement used part for $150, but that's still more than I paid for the entire Lenovo.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 07 February 2016, 20:48:52 »
IMHO, if you're gonna ding things up..

  buy every x220 you guys come across.. hahahahahahhaha

It's the last one you don't need an spi programmer to flash, and all the parts are epic cheap..

Also,, it has cheap ips upgrade, although it's only 1366x768,  which is honestly enough for a 12inch..

Offline DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1500
  • Location: Port Wentworth, GA
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 07 February 2016, 20:58:26 »
My x201 is my spirit animal

Offline Darkshado

  • Posts: 79
  • Location: Montréal
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 13 February 2016, 00:56:25 »
I have a 3rd gen "2015" X1 and I like it. Lightweight, excellent battery life (approx 8-9 hours) and a quick charger.

I'd stay away from the 2nd gen due to the weird capacitive function key row and trackpad buttons (I've seen pics of modded T440s that had the physical button part swapped, not sure it can be done on the X1C2). First gen is fine in that regard.

Another, more general consideration: high DPI screens may be a pain to deal with depending on your OS of choice and which specific apps you use.

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2735
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 13 February 2016, 06:27:47 »
I have a 3rd gen "2015" X1 and I like it. Lightweight, excellent battery life (approx 8-9 hours) and a quick charger.

I'd stay away from the 2nd gen due to the weird capacitive function key row and trackpad buttons (I've seen pics of modded T440s that had the physical button part swapped, not sure it can be done on the X1C2). First gen is fine in that regard.

Another, more general consideration: high DPI screens may be a pain to deal with depending on your OS of choice and which specific apps you use.

Do you use Linux on it? If so, how does the battery hold up UNDER LINUX?
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline ResonantPixel

  • Posts: 18
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 14 February 2016, 14:36:37 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 14 February 2016, 14:43:02 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

x200 is ol'skool ,  but it's honestly clumsy to use these days.

X220 is the best budget one to get these days..

Offline ResonantPixel

  • Posts: 18
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 14 February 2016, 14:57:24 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

x200 is ol'skool ,  but it's honestly clumsy to use these days.

X220 is the best budget one to get these days..

Not if you're on a very tight budget its not! I love my little thinkpad! With it's perfectly smooth super-key and blue mouse-nipple!

Offline Altis

  • Posts: 974
  • Location: Canada
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 14 February 2016, 22:09:19 »
I absolutely love the keyboard on my T450S, and the 1080p IPS light anti-glare screen is very nice.

It's brutal going from that to my Dell work laptop.

Sadly, I've put it up for sale locally this week since I absolutely never use it anymore. I actually never really used it because I have a powerful desktop computer at home and I got a work laptop very shortly after getting it.
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 15 February 2016, 05:16:16 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

x200 is ol'skool ,  but it's honestly clumsy to use these days.

X220 is the best budget one to get these days..

Not if you're on a very tight budget its not! I love my little thinkpad! With it's perfectly smooth super-key and blue mouse-nipple!


So.. 

$60 x200
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --1556-- (Core2duo p8600, base model)

vs

$100 x220
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --3737-- (i5 2540m, base model)



the extra $40 which is (20% increase in cost) buys you 200% the cpu power, and something like 10x the Gpu power as well..


So...... yea....... ..... You can see how x220 is bestest ever..   

-- also, x220 has an LG-brand -ips screen available if you want the upgrade, it's like $60,


Offline ResonantPixel

  • Posts: 18
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 15 February 2016, 05:32:10 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

x200 is ol'skool ,  but it's honestly clumsy to use these days.

X220 is the best budget one to get these days..

Not if you're on a very tight budget its not! I love my little thinkpad! With it's perfectly smooth super-key and blue mouse-nipple!


So.. 

$60 x200
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --1556-- (Core2duo p8600, base model)

vs

$100 x220
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --3737-- (i5 2540m, base model)



the extra $40 which is (20% increase in cost) buys you 200% the cpu power, and something like 10x the Gpu power as well..


So...... yea....... ..... You can see how x220 is bestest ever..   

-- also, x220 has an LG-brand -ips screen available if you want the upgrade, it's like $60,

Actually for UK it's £70 for x200 and £180 for x220, I did not and still do not have that much money for a laptop!

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 15 February 2016, 05:59:18 »




So.. 

$60 x200
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --1556-- (Core2duo p8600, base model)

vs

$100 x220
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --3737-- (i5 2540m, base model)



the extra $40 which is (20% increase in cost) buys you 200% the cpu power, and something like 10x the Gpu power as well..


So...... yea....... ..... You can see how x220 is bestest ever..   

-- also, x220 has an LG-brand -ips screen available if you want the upgrade, it's like $60,

Actually for UK it's £70 for x200 and £180 for x220, I did not and still do not have that much money for a laptop!

Ok..   Plane ticket to USA.. $500..   then Cheap Computers 4ever..

Offline ResonantPixel

  • Posts: 18
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 15 February 2016, 06:55:03 »




So.. 

$60 x200
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --1556-- (Core2duo p8600, base model)

vs

$100 x220
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --3737-- (i5 2540m, base model)



the extra $40 which is (20% increase in cost) buys you 200% the cpu power, and something like 10x the Gpu power as well..


So...... yea....... ..... You can see how x220 is bestest ever..   

-- also, x220 has an LG-brand -ips screen available if you want the upgrade, it's like $60,

Actually for UK it's £70 for x200 and £180 for x220, I did not and still do not have that much money for a laptop!

Ok..   Plane ticket to USA.. $500..   then Cheap Computers 4ever..
Show Image


No thanks mate, we have somewhat reasonable gun laws!  :p

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 15 February 2016, 07:08:59 »




So.. 

$60 x200
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --1556-- (Core2duo p8600, base model)

vs

$100 x220
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --3737-- (i5 2540m, base model)



the extra $40 which is (20% increase in cost) buys you 200% the cpu power, and something like 10x the Gpu power as well..


So...... yea....... ..... You can see how x220 is bestest ever..   

-- also, x220 has an LG-brand -ips screen available if you want the upgrade, it's like $60,

Actually for UK it's £70 for x200 and £180 for x220, I did not and still do not have that much money for a laptop!

Ok..   Plane ticket to USA.. $500..   then Cheap Computers 4ever..
Show Image


No thanks mate, we have somewhat reasonable gun laws!  :p

Very few people get shot..

The main concern in America is heart-disease and diabetus..

Offline ResonantPixel

  • Posts: 18
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 15 February 2016, 07:22:44 »




So.. 

$60 x200
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --1556-- (Core2duo p8600, base model)

vs

$100 x220
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --3737-- (i5 2540m, base model)



the extra $40 which is (20% increase in cost) buys you 200% the cpu power, and something like 10x the Gpu power as well..


So...... yea....... ..... You can see how x220 is bestest ever..   

-- also, x220 has an LG-brand -ips screen available if you want the upgrade, it's like $60,

Actually for UK it's £70 for x200 and £180 for x220, I did not and still do not have that much money for a laptop!

Ok..   Plane ticket to USA.. $500..   then Cheap Computers 4ever..
Show Image


No thanks mate, we have somewhat reasonable gun laws!  :p

Very few people get shot..

The main concern in America is heart-disease and diabetus..

I know I was kind of joking, I do really dislike guns mind you, (my father has several), also it's the culture I dislike, America does not seem like a great country compared to a lot european contries from what an outsider can tell!

Offline davkol

  •  Post Editing Timeout
  • Posts: 4994
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 15 February 2016, 12:40:12 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

x200 is ol'skool ,  but it's honestly clumsy to use these days.

X220 is the best budget one to get these days..
16:10 versus 16:9 screen. Not even a contest.

Offline ResonantPixel

  • Posts: 18
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 15 February 2016, 13:34:25 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

x200 is ol'skool ,  but it's honestly clumsy to use these days.

X220 is the best budget one to get these days..
16:10 versus 16:9 screen. Not even a contest.

It's all up to what you want! I find 16:10 is better under a lot of circumstances! Not watching stuff and playing games though! Again though the x220 is more money!

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8123
  • Location: In the middle of nowhere.
  • Björkö.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 15 February 2016, 14:01:10 »
You may consider the thinkpad T430u that is close to the one you like, but has better upgradability.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:18:22 »
The 10 and 20 series are the best bargains. Beyond that the price goes up fast and many feel the 20 had the last good keyboard. Do NOT buy a C2d system, memory is expensive. 

If you are on a budget, look for "for parts or not working". I got a t410 for $40 with the high res screen and Nvidia video upgrade. it had an i5, 2 gigs of ram and a small, oem battery that was nearly perfect. I tossed in an old hard drive and memory and spent $15 on a power adapter. So $55 total investment.

Just be careful buying incomplete systems like that. I look for ones just needing a drive, that they show to booting to bios, and make sure they mention the drive caddy, whether there or not, they should mention it if the drive is not included. If not, expect $5 for a caddy, parts for these are cheap, but if you are going to use an ssd, you can fudge the caddy with cardboard and such, but you still need to make sure it has a drive door. Of course always buy from a respected seller and make sure it's pictures of the one you are buying, not a stock photo and a description of condition. Grade A for one seller can be grade C for another and one scratch on the palmrest is very different than a scratch down the middle of the screen.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 20 February 2016, 20:00:15 »
Also..

Don't use the Lenovo Dock, unless you have to..   it makes the laptop run hotter..

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 27 February 2016, 10:38:20 »
Also.. Tpfancontrol.. essential Thinkpad program

Offline funderburker

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1396
  • Location: Latvia, Riga
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 05 April 2016, 07:36:14 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

x200 is ol'skool ,  but it's honestly clumsy to use these days.

X220 is the best budget one to get these days..

Not if you're on a very tight budget its not! I love my little thinkpad! With it's perfectly smooth super-key and blue mouse-nipple!

Oh man, I'm not alone with a Linux powered X200! Bought it for like 80 euros and been loving it.

Need to get an SSD though but every time I want to get one something else is more important (Life ya'dig?)  Has someone upgraded the RAM on theirs? Have 4GB but want to get 8. X200 can't handle every RAM sticks so say what are you using, please.
Keyboard design by Skepur

My boards: TMO50 FE:06 | LAGOM Groda-T | TMOv2 R1 prototype | Onyx FRL TKL prototype | Stege TKL prototype | Ellipse prototype | Cyberstar

Offline Darkshado

  • Posts: 79
  • Location: Montréal
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 07 April 2016, 00:29:33 »
I have a 3rd gen "2015" X1 and I like it. Lightweight, excellent battery life (approx 8-9 hours) and a quick charger.

I'd stay away from the 2nd gen due to the weird capacitive function key row and trackpad buttons (I've seen pics of modded T440s that had the physical button part swapped, not sure it can be done on the X1C2). First gen is fine in that regard.

Another, more general consideration: high DPI screens may be a pain to deal with depending on your OS of choice and which specific apps you use.

Do you use Linux on it? If so, how does the battery hold up UNDER LINUX?

Sorry iLLucionist, looks like I had missed your reply.

It runs Arch full time, with Cinnamon, UEFI boot using rEFInd. I'd say my usage patterns with screen brightness on the high side and some more power hungry programs take a hit on the battery life, closer to 6-7 hours in practice. Enough that I hardly every worry about it, and when I do, the charger is fast enough that I can top up and carry on. (Something like under an hour for a full charge, but don't quote me on it; double check that your country gets it, not all do.) One factor that might help battery life is that I have the 1080 HD screen (vs high DPI).

Driver-wise, Linux support out of the box is pretty hard to beat. Had to tinker a bit to adjust the TrackPoint sensitivity, the fingerprint reader driver I found was for a related model (with a different resolution so the output image looks weird, might look into it sometime) but everything else pretty much "just worked" out of the box with Arch's up to date kernels.

It's a secondary machine, bought it because the 11" Acer C720 (4GB RAM with 128GB SSD and running Linux Mint with Cinnamon) was cramped and underpowered for my needs. And hauling my 15" discrete GPU, 180W PSU Clevo on a daily basis was not happening again.

My Carbon has the i5-5200U, 1080p non touch screen, 8GB (non user-upgradeable :() RAM, M.2 2280 SATA 128GB SSD (the board also supports PCIe :) ), and the backlit keyboard. I eventually bought it's external non-backlit USB twin as a light travel board; the backlit feels more shine resistant than the non-backlit.

Let me know if you have other questions.

Regards,

Darkshado

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2735
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 07 April 2016, 07:01:39 »
It runs Arch full time, with Cinnamon, UEFI boot using rEFInd. I'd say my usage patterns with screen brightness on the high side and some more power hungry programs take a hit on the battery life, closer to 6-7 hours in practice. Enough that I hardly every worry about it, and when I do, the charger is fast enough that I can top up and carry on. (Something like under an hour for a full charge, but don't quote me on it; double check that your country gets it, not all do.) One factor that might help battery life is that I have the 1080 HD screen (vs high DPI).

You really get 6-7 hours in practice? Perhaps I've missed it, but what is your laptop again? Under an hour for a full charge? That is quick! My late 2010 MBP takes upto 4 hours to charge. Ah yes.. the screen. I would want high DPI. Not 4K, but at least 1680x1050.

Driver-wise, Linux support out of the box is pretty hard to beat. Had to tinker a bit to adjust the TrackPoint sensitivity, the fingerprint reader driver I found was for a related model (with a different resolution so the output image looks weird, might look into it sometime) but everything else pretty much "just worked" out of the box with Arch's up to date kernels.

I am actually suprised that hardware support is good. I have had mixed results with PC laptops. But that was like 5 years ago, so I image a lot has changed since then.

My Carbon has the i5-5200U, 1080p non touch screen, 8GB (non user-upgradeable :() RAM, M.2 2280 SATA 128GB SSD (the board also supports PCIe :) ), and the backlit keyboard. I eventually bought it's external non-backlit USB twin as a light travel board; the backlit feels more shine resistant than the non-backlit.

Let me know if you have other questions.

Carbon.. so that's a Lenovo right? Care to share the exact model number? Do you like the screen and keyboard?
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline Darkshado

  • Posts: 79
  • Location: Montréal
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #54 on: Fri, 08 April 2016, 02:11:18 »
Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon, the third generation model (fourth came out this month afaik). Advertising copy claims 10 hours battery life (driving like an old grandma, no radio, no AC, on flat terrain :P ) and fast charge to 80% in less than an hour.

High DPI ≈ 4K. Mine has an FHD, 1920x1080 screen, a very nice panel overall.

Linux hardware support varies across component manufacturers, caveat emptor, although I consider Intel to be a generally safe choice. Wi-Fi cards that need proprietary drivers and blobs are riskier. Switchable graphics can be quite tricky. Consumer HP printers with hplip drivers? *Shudder*

My exact model has been discontinued, it was from their build-to-order site and I ordered it with a French Canadian keyboard.

I like the keyboard on it very much, about as good as any scissor switch gets. In comparison, felt like it had slightly less key travel than the one on its T450s sibling. I've never really used the previous ThinkPad keyboard layout but have seen very polarized reactions from long time users. One thing missing IMO: Fn+ arrows for Page Up, Home, End and Page Down.

The top row keys (F-keys and a few more) should have had the same mechanism as the others, they don't feel as crisp. (Though certainly not hideous like the ones on the Sculpt Ergo.)

One "ThinkPad-ism" that might catch you off guard is the Fn key located left of Control. I got used to it, those who don't can swap them in the BIOS. The keycaps don't have the same width, however.

The TrackPoint is a nice input device and save your hands multiple trips to the touchpad (or external mouse) and back. You can disable the touchpad in the BIOS.

Offline Marizen

  • Posts: 77
  • Location: Central California
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 02 May 2016, 18:38:27 »
I just ordered a T420 last Friday. Can't wait to get it in and swap out parts from my old laptop. I got 16GB of RAM and a 480GB SSD waiting.

Of course you really pay for it.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/traverse/pro_15/customize.php

All of a sudden Apple laptops feel cheap and affordable..

Nah. It's definitely more expensive than a base MBP, but once you tack on the upgrades to the MBP to get it equally spec'd as close as possible with the Puget laptop, you're looking at ~$3,500. In terms of price to specs ratio the MBP can't even touch the Puget.
« Last Edit: Mon, 02 May 2016, 18:51:08 by Marizen »

Offline trenzafeeds

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1352
  • Location: vt
  • **** off
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 02 May 2016, 20:49:24 »
I just ordered a T420 last Friday. Can't wait to get it in and swap out parts from my old laptop. I got 16GB of RAM and a 480GB SSD waiting.

Awesome machine, and swapping parts in a ton of fun!
demik will never leave.

Unless he gets banned.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 02 May 2016, 22:04:22 »
I just ordered a T420 last Friday. Can't wait to get it in and swap out parts from my old laptop. I got 16GB of RAM and a 480GB SSD waiting.

Awesome machine, and swapping parts in a ton of fun!

Hrrrmm that ips mod is pretty complicated..

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8123
  • Location: In the middle of nowhere.
  • Björkö.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 02 May 2016, 22:13:01 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

x200 is ol'skool ,  but it's honestly clumsy to use these days.

X220 is the best budget one to get these days..

Not if you're on a very tight budget its not! I love my little thinkpad! With it's perfectly smooth super-key and blue mouse-nipple!


So.. 

$60 x200
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --1556-- (Core2duo p8600, base model)

vs

$100 x220
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --3737-- (i5 2540m, base model)



the extra $40 which is (20% increase in cost) buys you 200% the cpu power, and something like 10x the Gpu power as well..


So...... yea....... ..... You can see how x220 is bestest ever..   

-- also, x220 has an LG-brand -ips screen available if you want the upgrade, it's like $60,

x230 has an edge over the x220, unless you prefer the x220's keyboard:

3rd gen Core processors,
Many available with IPS displays,
2x USB3 + 1 always on USB2 ports.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 02 May 2016, 23:29:15 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

x200 is ol'skool ,  but it's honestly clumsy to use these days.

X220 is the best budget one to get these days..

Not if you're on a very tight budget its not! I love my little thinkpad! With it's perfectly smooth super-key and blue mouse-nipple!


So.. 

$60 x200
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --1556-- (Core2duo p8600, base model)

vs

$100 x220
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --3737-- (i5 2540m, base model)



the extra $40 which is (20% increase in cost) buys you 200% the cpu power, and something like 10x the Gpu power as well..


So...... yea....... ..... You can see how x220 is bestest ever..   

-- also, x220 has an LG-brand -ips screen available if you want the upgrade, it's like $60,

x230 has an edge over the x220, unless you prefer the x220's keyboard:

3rd gen Core processors,
Many available with IPS displays,
2x USB3 + 1 always on USB2 ports.


Um... well if you can get an x230 with a preinstalled top-end wifi card.. I think that's fine..

but most of the time, you get the mid-tier card, and you can't upgrade without an official lenovo part..

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8123
  • Location: In the middle of nowhere.
  • Björkö.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 03 May 2016, 10:27:11 »
I love the old IBM Thinkpads. Lenovo is okay but "they don't make 'em like they used to." Ha. I bought a x200 for $60 and outfitted it with 6GB RAM and a 120 GB SSD. It runs Antergos. I use it mainly for programming. Never really pushed it with any WebGL projects as I'm sure it wouldn't be capable of rendering 60fps at an acceptable rate, but it's great for what I use it for. The Carbon X1 looks sleek and neat. Nice thin profile.  :thumb:

I'm with you in rocking the x200! Mine is a lenovo branded one though :L It was only £70 and I'm running arch with gnome : P

x200 is ol'skool ,  but it's honestly clumsy to use these days.

X220 is the best budget one to get these days..

Not if you're on a very tight budget its not! I love my little thinkpad! With it's perfectly smooth super-key and blue mouse-nipple!


So.. 

$60 x200
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --1556-- (Core2duo p8600, base model)

vs

$100 x220
$50 8gb ram
$50 128gb SSD

Cpu score --3737-- (i5 2540m, base model)



the extra $40 which is (20% increase in cost) buys you 200% the cpu power, and something like 10x the Gpu power as well..


So...... yea....... ..... You can see how x220 is bestest ever..   

-- also, x220 has an LG-brand -ips screen available if you want the upgrade, it's like $60,

x230 has an edge over the x220, unless you prefer the x220's keyboard:

3rd gen Core processors,
Many available with IPS displays,
2x USB3 + 1 always on USB2 ports.


Um... well if you can get an x230 with a preinstalled top-end wifi card.. I think that's fine..

but most of the time, you get the mid-tier card, and you can't upgrade without an official lenovo part..


You can reflash the bios with a custom one with no whitelist, if you are brave enough. It requires some soldering work, because starting with the x230 it cannot be done by software anymore.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 03 May 2016, 12:26:02 »


You can reflash the bios with a custom one with no whitelist, if you are brave enough. It requires some soldering work, because starting with the x230 it cannot be done by software anymore.

If you like to fiddle, yea... I could see going for an x230..

The problem here is that bios chips are not the easiest to desolder..  and where are you going to get another one should it fail.. hahahaha..


Offline dante

  • Posts: 2553
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 03 May 2016, 12:37:51 »
2011 was the last year you could buy a ThinkPad with scissor switches.

#NEVERFORGET

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 03 May 2016, 12:40:30 »
2011 was the last year you could buy a ThinkPad with scissor switches.

#NEVERFORGET

the new island keyboard is scissor underneath..

only the caps look different..

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8123
  • Location: In the middle of nowhere.
  • Björkö.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 03 May 2016, 14:35:16 »


You can reflash the bios with a custom one with no whitelist, if you are brave enough. It requires some soldering work, because starting with the x230 it cannot be done by software anymore.

If you like to fiddle, yea... I could see going for an x230..

The problem here is that bios chips are not the easiest to desolder..  and where are you going to get another one should it fail.. hahahaha..

In the linked tutorial the poster bought a new BIOS chip for flashing the custom BIOS, while keeping the original as a backup.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 04 May 2016, 06:23:22 »


You can reflash the bios with a custom one with no whitelist, if you are brave enough. It requires some soldering work, because starting with the x230 it cannot be done by software anymore.

If you like to fiddle, yea... I could see going for an x230..

The problem here is that bios chips are not the easiest to desolder..  and where are you going to get another one should it fail.. hahahaha..

In the linked tutorial the poster bought a new BIOS chip for flashing the custom BIOS, while keeping the original as a backup.

Hrrrrrrmmmmmm...... Hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

I guess an upgrade to x230 is in the books for me then...

Hrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmm......................

x230 $250
SSD $120
Ram $60
Wifi Card $30
Bios Chip+ programmer $60
ips upgrade $100

$620... man this adds up fast..

Hrrrrmmmmm..........

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8123
  • Location: In the middle of nowhere.
  • Björkö.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 04 May 2016, 07:44:49 »


You can reflash the bios with a custom one with no whitelist, if you are brave enough. It requires some soldering work, because starting with the x230 it cannot be done by software anymore.

If you like to fiddle, yea... I could see going for an x230..

The problem here is that bios chips are not the easiest to desolder..  and where are you going to get another one should it fail.. hahahaha..

In the linked tutorial the poster bought a new BIOS chip for flashing the custom BIOS, while keeping the original as a backup.

Hrrrrrrmmmmmm...... Hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

I guess an upgrade to x230 is in the books for me then...

Hrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmm......................

x230 $250
SSD $120
Ram $60
Wifi Card $30
Bios Chip+ programmer $60
ips upgrade $100

$620... man this adds up fast..

Hrrrrmmmmm..........

Why do you have to replace the stock wifi card? is it really that bad as to invest $90 and risk to damage the mother board? Also you can save the ips as there are some x230 that are offered with factory IPS displays.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 04 May 2016, 14:14:33 »


Why do you have to replace the stock wifi card? is it really that bad as to invest $90 and risk to damage the mother board? Also you can save the ips as there are some x230 that are offered with factory IPS displays.

WIFI card is the SOUL of the laptop..

It's more important than anything else.. the 6xxx intel wifi series was terrible..

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8123
  • Location: In the middle of nowhere.
  • Björkö.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 04 May 2016, 14:22:43 »


Why do you have to replace the stock wifi card? is it really that bad as to invest $90 and risk to damage the mother board? Also you can save the ips as there are some x230 that are offered with factory IPS displays.

WIFI card is the SOUL of the laptop..

It's more important than anything else.. the 6xxx intel wifi series was terrible..

Could you provide specific part numbers or models of the Lenovo's approved one and the model you want to use instead? I am sorry, but "terrible" is just a poor reference to understand what you mean; besides, unless everything you do requires wireless internet access, the ssd and ram are as important or more important than the wifi card, also the display and keyboard that are the only actual interfaces with the user are very important; therefore, your statement that the wifi is the "soul" of the laptop is also too vague.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 04 May 2016, 16:38:46 »


Why do you have to replace the stock wifi card? is it really that bad as to invest $90 and risk to damage the mother board? Also you can save the ips as there are some x230 that are offered with factory IPS displays.

WIFI card is the SOUL of the laptop..

It's more important than anything else.. the 6xxx intel wifi series was terrible..

Could you provide specific part numbers or models of the Lenovo's approved one and the model you want to use instead? I am sorry, but "terrible" is just a poor reference to understand what you mean; besides, unless everything you do requires wireless internet access, the ssd and ram are as important or more important than the wifi card, also the display and keyboard that are the only actual interfaces with the user are very important; therefore, your statement that the wifi is the "soul" of the laptop is also too vague.


The premise starts with. Everything on a Laptops suck.

Their advantage ?  Mobility..

What is tantamount to mobility,  the WIRELESS aspect


Hence.. Wifi is the most important attribute to -A-Laptop-

If not,  then Why would I bother,  Just use any of my 8 desktops @ 4.7ghz+


Now specifically for the intel 6xxx series wifi cards, they had a huge number of incompatibility problems with many router vendors..

This problem persisted all the way through the early 7xxx series..


The new 7xxx has gotten better..  but , At this point, I'd rather have a 3xxx series card for compatibility sake.. it just flat out works everywhere you go.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 04 May 2016, 17:28:06 »
Actually I have to agree with Tp here, some of the 6 and 7's have been problematic. Actually anything over Wireless N gets fickle outside Windows.

I've been using a Broadcom out of some recent Acer laptops (BCM943228HMB BCM1058), they top out at 300mbps, but they work on any OS with minimal hassle, dual band, plenty efficient, have Bluetooth 4.0 and are dirt cheap ($5). There is also the Atheros AR5B22  which is what the Bigfoot killer cards are built on, these can now be found for under $10 used.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline trenzafeeds

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1352
  • Location: vt
  • **** off
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 04 May 2016, 17:40:51 »
Also, with a lot of Kali based programs and other linux networking software there's a limited range of wifi card compatibility.
demik will never leave.

Unless he gets banned.

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8123
  • Location: In the middle of nowhere.
  • Björkö.
Re: Buying thinkpads
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 04 May 2016, 23:13:10 »
Wifi card compatibility issues may be a good reason to be concern about wifi cards; but, speed, or band wide are not, because they depend on many other infrastructure and demand issues well beyond the wifi card features. X220 white list can be eliminated via software BIOS re-flashing, therefore that alone may be a reason to get one, instead of an X230.