Thoughts on the new Microsoft Surface Dial?

[atlas3686]

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/accessories/surface-dial

Saw this today, kinda looks like an upgraded Griffin powermate. Apparently it will work with any win10 device just obviously without the screen positioning stuff. $99 might be a little steep without that functionality though and they haven't detailed much in the way of how it's programmed and configured....

What do you guys think?

[SpAmRaY]

I think it's like a lot of other neat hardware in that it's got potential but is heavily dependent on what happens on the software side of things and dependent on being coupled with other hardware to get the most benefit out of it.

It fits in with the 3D ecosystem Microsoft is trying to transition to.

What is interesting to me is that their target market is now 12-24 year olds.

[atlas3686]

I think it's like a lot of other neat hardware in that it's got potential but is heavily dependent on what happens on the software side of things and dependent on being coupled with other hardware to get the most benefit out of it.

It fits in with the 3D ecosystem Microsoft is trying to transition to.

What is interesting to me is that their target market is now 12-24 year olds.

Yeah I agree with you on that, it is so heavily dependent on real software integration you can only do so much without it. 12 - 24 year olds with trust funds

[Bucake]

seems a bit expensive for what it does, and it looks kinda redundant to me anyway..
maybe i have lost my sense of 'cool gadgets'? :-(

[tp4tissue]

yea, u could just hit one button on the mouse,  and do the same thing.. hahahahaha


but now, u gotta do it with 2 hands..


CAN we find use for it,  certainly..  like the 3d rotation feature,  that's useful to cad people..


Buhhh........... does it really improve interface in any way that can't be done with current implementations,  heck no..

[eksuen]

seems a bit expensive for what it does, and it looks kinda redundant to me anyway..
maybe i have lost my sense of 'cool gadgets'? :-(

You know you're getting older when you react to new things with "meh" instead of "cool". We're slowly becoming grumpy old people who are resistant to change.  )

[Dr_Alphabet]

I think anything that changes the way we interface with technology has inherent value but whether it's an "improvement" on our current way of interfacing is yet to be seen. I think this device was created specifically with graphic designers in mind  as way for them to basically keep their stylus in hand and design on the fly sort of how certain midi controllers did something similar for musicians. I wouldn't use it, but that's because I have no need for it. It's certainly interesting though.

[chuckdee]

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/accessories/surface-dial

Saw this today, kinda looks like an upgraded Griffin powermate. Apparently it will work with any win10 device just obviously without the screen positioning stuff. $99 might be a little steep without that functionality though and they haven't detailed much in the way of how it's programmed and configured....

What do you guys think?

If you're in the target market, from what I hear, it's pretty revolutionary.  Everyone concentrates on one-handed stylus use- this brings the other hand into play, and it's contextual.  I've seen others, and I know that they are pretty cool- but this takes it to another level.  If you can afford to lose the screen real-estate.  On a standard Surface Studio, it seems like a no brainer.  On a standard surface... not so much.

If you really want to see it in it's environment, look at the Surface Studio instead.  A lot of the demos that they did are pretty amazing.  And I can see my wife going crazy over something like this.

[Sure_Sh0t]

This would be useful in complicated workflows for artists, designers, engineers, etc.

But it is definitely very consumer-y and overpriced. It should be $50 max and have multiple buttons.

And it is very dependent on software supporting it, which Microsoft will influence but cannot control.

[AMongoose]

I don't know why they didn't put on the side of the screen instead of making it movable.

[SpAmRaY]

I don't know why they didn't put on the side of the screen instead of making it movable.

Because it'll work for other touchscreen windows 10 devices as well.

[atlas3686]

I don't know why they didn't put on the side of the screen instead of making it movable.

Because it'll work for other touchscreen windows 10 devices as well.

Also the contextual positioning is half the point as I understand it. What does seem to be a little odd is there doesn't seem to be any way to customise any of the functionality, you have to wait for the software vendors to bring in functionality which seems a little ridiculous at least in terms of standard shortcuts that could be easily assigned.

[AMongoose]

I don't know why they didn't put on the side of the screen instead of making it movable.

Because it'll work for other touchscreen windows 10 devices as well.

But if you have a touchscreen why would you need a physical dial to input something? your fingers should do nicely.

Why would a third party support this? If they wanted their users to have a dial on a touchscreen they can just add one to the interface, no need to require expensive hardware that wouldn't be sold by them.

[SpAmRaY]

I don't know why they didn't put on the side of the screen instead of making it movable.

Because it'll work for other touchscreen windows 10 devices as well.

But if you have a touchscreen why would you need a physical dial to input something? your fingers should do nicely.

Why would a third party support this? If they wanted their users to have a dial on a touchscreen they can just add one to the interface, no need to require expensive hardware that wouldn't be sold by them.

It provides physical tactile feedback you can't get with a touchscreen.

You get the simple sensation of touching and using your hand on an object versus just touching the screen.

Also being able to move it around an interface easily might be better than a software implementation which in most software I've used is always limited.

Third party support is absolutely necessary or these will not be successful.

And at least they are trying to innovate and give options on physical input devices.

Who knows this could be one of those things where now it doesn't make much sense but eventually depending on adoption and how creative they can be this could become a device everyone uses.

[AMongoose]

You get the simple sensation of touching and using your hand on an object versus just touching the screen.

Also being able to move it around an interface easily might be better than a software implementation which in most software I've used is always limited.

A touchscreen is still an object and a dial doesn't give you much feedback.

And moving the dial around still relays on a software implementation just has well. There is no difference on this point besides adding complexity to the system and cost to the user.

[xtrafrood]

Personally, I think they're literally trying to reinvent the wheel. My personal feelings aside, they're making the user place another device on the screen. It's not huge but it would take up a small portion of the screen that would otherwise be free of a small circle. It looks to be about the size of an 8oz coffee cup. But on a Surface, that's kind of a big item taking up screen real estate.

I'm not an artist so take this post with a grain of whatever it is that you enjoy. I know one person that would probably love it until the glitches start.. Microsoft ya'know?

[chuckdee]

Personally, I think they're literally trying to reinvent the wheel. My personal feelings aside, they're making the user place another device on the screen. It's not huge but it would take up a small portion of the screen that would otherwise be free of a small circle. It looks to be about the size of an 8oz coffee cup. But on a Surface, that's kind of a big item taking up screen real estate.

I'm not an artist so take this post with a grain of whatever it is that you enjoy. I know one person that would probably love it until the glitches start.. Microsoft ya'know?

It was really made for the Surface Studio, where that becomes less of an issue.  And being able to operate two-handed in creative type endeavors is what they're getting at.  Having to move your stylus to get to the adjustment controls, vs spinning a dial or pressing a button is a different way of working.

[ygor]

What the fu... Hahahaha, what.  )

[chuckdee]

http://siliconbenders.com/our-spin/

Classic interfaces rely on grouped icons, typically on the edge of the window. Specific settings adjustments, like brush diameter or color saturation, are often buried in complex palettes or dialogs. This creates a constant battle between simplifying the interface and allowing quick access to desired features. Sketchable’s Speed Dial solves this by giving the nondominant hand control. This allows the traditional UI to melt away. Tasks like adjusting color, brush settings, canvas orientation, and undo or redo, can be achieved without taking your focus from your work. Facilitating a productive, intuitive, and fun experience.

[xtrafrood]

Personally, I think they're literally trying to reinvent the wheel. My personal feelings aside, they're making the user place another device on the screen. It's not huge but it would take up a small portion of the screen that would otherwise be free of a small circle. It looks to be about the size of an 8oz coffee cup. But on a Surface, that's kind of a big item taking up screen real estate.

I'm not an artist so take this post with a grain of whatever it is that you enjoy. I know one person that would probably love it until the glitches start.. Microsoft ya'know?

It was really made for the Surface Studio, where that becomes less of an issue.  And being able to operate two-handed in creative type endeavors is what they're getting at.  Having to move your stylus to get to the adjustment controls, vs spinning a dial or pressing a button is a different way of working.

I see. Makes total sense now. Can you tell that I'm not a Surface user? We even have that weird guy laughing in the background. What is that guy on--I wouldn't want whatever he is taking. My arms could accommodate a space navigator/stylus but yet again I'm not a Surface user. Thanks for clearing that up for me

[AMongoose]

Having to move your stylus to get to the adjustment controls, vs spinning a dial or pressing a button is a different way of working.

Yes but why place a device on the screen for this?
this has existed for a long time.
I don't get why there are a lot of people saying the microsoft dial and studio are innovative when you already had all the capabilities before and didn't need to use an underpowered all in one pc AND cover up your screen.

[ygor]

Having to move your stylus to get to the adjustment controls, vs spinning a dial or pressing a button is a different way of working.

Yes but why place a device on the screen for this?
this has existed for a long time.
I don't get why there are a lot of people saying the microsoft dial and studio are innovative when you already had all the capabilities before and didn't need to use an underpowered all in one pc AND cover up your screen.

Yeh, but the dial has a rumble pack, dude. Next level ****.

[chuckdee]

Having to move your stylus to get to the adjustment controls, vs spinning a dial or pressing a button is a different way of working.

Yes but why place a device on the screen for this?
this has existed for a long time.
I don't get why there are a lot of people saying the microsoft dial and studio are innovative when you already had all the capabilities before and didn't need to use an underpowered all in one pc AND cover up your screen.

Because it's contextual? And you can move it on the screen to be contextual to what it's attached to? Read the linked article that I provided.   It gives more information.   I think a lot of people are trying to denigrate it without understanding the use case or how it is a different way of thinking.

[AMongoose]

Having to move your stylus to get to the adjustment controls, vs spinning a dial or pressing a button is a different way of working.

Yes but why place a device on the screen for this?
this has existed for a long time.
I don't get why there are a lot of people saying the microsoft dial and studio are innovative when you already had all the capabilities before and didn't need to use an underpowered all in one pc AND cover up your screen.

Because it's contextual? And you can move it on the screen to be contextual to what it's attached to? Read the linked article that I provided.   It gives more information.   I think a lot of people are trying to denigrate it without understanding the use case or how it is a different way of thinking.

I did read the article.

The dial is NOT contextual. No piece of hardware is contextual until a program uses it like that and a program can use any input device in a contextual manner.
So saying the dial is contextual means nothing, even more at product launch.

[chuckdee]

Having to move your stylus to get to the adjustment controls, vs spinning a dial or pressing a button is a different way of working.

Yes but why place a device on the screen for this?
this has existed for a long time.
I don't get why there are a lot of people saying the microsoft dial and studio are innovative when you already had all the capabilities before and didn't need to use an underpowered all in one pc AND cover up your screen.

Because it's contextual? And you can move it on the screen to be contextual to what it's attached to? Read the linked article that I provided.   It gives more information.   I think a lot of people are trying to denigrate it without understanding the use case or how it is a different way of thinking.

I did read the article.

The dial is NOT contextual. No piece of hardware is contextual until a program uses it like that and a program can use any input device in a contextual manner.
So saying the dial is contextual means nothing, even more at product launch.

Just like a cintiq? I thought that would have been obvious.  As it stands currently, there are already contextual abilities that people are developing for.  Which is what that article pointed out.  If you don't want to be convinced or don't find it convincing, that's cool.  I'm not trying to do that.  I'm just pointing out the capabilities.  But if you're not going to discuss on that level, and are going to point out obvious items just to try to gain points- I'm done with that.  There are abilities and workflows that are enabled by the device.  And it does have the capability (and not just theoretical, but in use in applications today) to enable different workflows.  That's all I was pointing out.

[chuckdee]

http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-highlights-what-surface-studio-partners-are-doing-with-the-dial-in-new-videos

[AMongoose]

Yes, could you please point one workflow that is made possible by this amazing dial that couldn't just has well use the touch screen those devices already have?

[chuckdee]

Yes, could you please point one workflow that is made possible by this amazing dial that couldn't just has well use the touch screen those devices already have?

Isn't that what the last videos show?  And perhaps not instead, but to give a better and more intuitive workflow?  Again, I'm not trying to convince anyone.  I'm just providing the information.  I won't have one, but then again I don't have a surface studio, which is what it's meant to be paired with.  If you don't see the implications, or don't want to see the implications, fine.  That's not something I'm going to prove to you, but something given the evidence that you'd have to see.

[AMongoose]

That's not something I'm going to prove to you, but something given the evidence that you'd have to see.

If it's so easy to see just tell me one, if you can't then I don't care for anything you have to say on the matter or for any more promotional videos.

I really want to see new input devices, I just can't see anything special about this.

[chuckdee]

That's not something I'm going to prove to you, but something given the evidence that you'd have to see.

If it's so easy to see just tell me one, if you can't then I don't care for anything you have to say on the matter or for any more promotional videos.

I really want to see new input devices, I just can't see anything special about this.

Then why even respond?  I haven't used it.  It's not even available.  All there is is promotional stuff.  You're expecting me to market something to you- I have no intent on that.  Just sharing thoughts, and the fact that for the intended audience, I can see a use.  And the intended audience is chiming in saying that they really like it.  You're not the intended audience, if you can't figure that out.  This is not a mass market device.  I could see the use as a musician after those last videos.  But I wouldn't buy it for that- it's not worth it to me.  But I can see the changes- instead of selecting notes on a staff to transpose, you can transpose the whole phrase at once with something that, when utilized correctly, transposes by key rather than having to guesstimate.  That's powerful stuff in the right hands.