Author Topic: Facebook whistleblower Testimony  (Read 1650 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 10:26:53 »
//gaspp......

THoughts ?

Y'all watchn'dis ?



Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 11:34:51 »
Hang on, so if they're saying young people depression is amplified BY facebook algorithms.  Well how the heck would they make that claim when there isn't a baseline of depression.

So, lets say a person is m0ar sad after using facebook.

This same person, interacting with SOME other aspect of living, could just as easily become equivalently sad.

They blame FB for it "Today",  but you could just as easily blame a broken staircase for having fell.

The engagement is then only a matter of exposure,  more FB,  less staircases,   If you reduce FB sadness,  the staircase sadness would increase.


Hrrrm....

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 11:41:27 »
Will say this,   This lady is extremely eloquent/ well prepared.  I mean she is highly educated/ ivy league. so not surprising. but  it's refreshing to see   next to  idiotic stuff like cruz and drumph

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 11:44:52 »
wth guys, these senators are n00bers, they clearly have no idea what they're talking about, you can tell they don't even understand the answers given to them in the testimony.  Or perhaps this is just a washington show trial to reign in commercial powers.

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 11:52:21 »
Having every fun thing anyone you met once shown to you daily would be depressing enough, having your phone beep at you randomly at any time to do the same would surely be hell.

* suicidal_orange actually looks up what this whistleblowing is about

Hmm... seems to be as much about calling for more censorship so morons are protected from misinformation.  I'm not going to comment on that.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 12:05:44 »
She just said: AI is NOT intelligent.


Tp4, as a AI-sympathizer in the coming skynet wars is deeply offended by that statement. /grumpy

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 12:06:40 »
Having every fun thing anyone you met once shown to you daily would be depressing enough, having your phone beep at you randomly at any time to do the same would surely be hell.

Hmm... seems to be as much about calling for more censorship so morons are protected from misinformation.  I'm not going to comment on that.

The other thing they're pushing is,   _basically_  All children are morons... _Thus_  they need protection.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 12:17:43 »
Well,,,, this is good, they want to ban influencers.  although... I don't see how movie stars are different.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 12:28:56 »
This focus on eating disorders (anorexia). 

How come they don't talk about heart disease, is overeating not an eating disorder ?

If anything, Mcdonald/ Dominos pizza deals are arguably significantly more damaging to society.


Eating disorder: 10,000 deaths a year

Heart disease: 659,000 deaths a year

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 12:40:42 »
When Facebook started I thought that it looked like a website for cat pictures. My personal opinion has changed little since then, it always seemed creepy and weird to me.

I opened an account but I doubt that I have posted to it in a decade, and I could count the "friends" who are not related to me by blood on one hand. The only reason that I ever access it is that I have a photographer friend who posts photos there.

That said, my impression is that Facebook today is near the epicenter of the storm of depersonalization that has resulted from the interwebs in general and "social media" (I would call it "anti-social media" if I was the one coining the term) in particular.

Rules and regulations would not be necessary if people were not so gullible and relied on critical thinking to navigate life, but given the susceptibility and fragility of modern people overall and adolescents in particular, I believe that restrictions should be applied to an ecosystem that derives pure profit from mere engagement and rewards traffic by volume regardless of its content.

I strongly recommend this book, https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28503628-the-attention-merchants , a few years old now but still entirely relevant.
For the first time, the United States has been demoted to the status of "backsliding" democracy by a major global watchdog of such things. The International IDEA think tank made the change in its newest report, citing "declines in civil liberties" and other factors. The United States now joins troubled inching-towards-autocracy nations like Hungary and Poland — which, notably, have recently been celebrated by far-right pundits as potential models of what this nation should become.
We are still a democracy, but the things that make us a democracy are themselves under attack. International IDEA is blunt in pinning the blame where it belongs, calling Donald Trump's attacks on the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election "a historic turning point." The Guardian quotes International IDEA Secretary General Kevin Casas-Zamora as he notes that "the increasing tendency to contest credible election results, the efforts to suppress participation (in elections), and the runaway polarization" are among the "most concerning developments," and that Trump's attempted nullification of the election with false claims of fraud “was soon replicated, in different ways, in places as diverse as Myanmar, Peru and Israel."
- The Guardian 2021-11-22

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 05 October 2021, 13:39:49 »
best part is how FB got hacked during this time

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 06 October 2021, 05:33:52 »
Hang on, so if they're saying young people depression is amplified BY facebook algorithms.  Well how the heck would they make that claim when there isn't a baseline of depression.
They can claim this because Facebook is probably they best psychological tool ever created.

As a doc you couldn't sit and follow a patient 24 hours a day, Facebook does it for you. It tracks where they go, who they interact with, how they interact, what they buy, how they talk, intimate phone conversations, anything and everything. Facebook knows more about you in some cases than you do, look at the woman who was annoyed she was getting prenatal ads then a week later found out she was pregnant.  The algorithm saw it before she did. They know if your spouse is cheating, they know if you're cheating, they know your kid is failing at school they know you suck at your job.  If you live your life on Facebook and it collects all that data, it's going to pick up on trends and know things about you that any living person never could no matter how close you studied them.  It's the perfect third party observer. It never tires, sees everything, never judgemental and always watching and listening.

Is it smart, oh hell no, it's just following patterns and feeding you what it thinks you want and while it seems to be good at it, it's actually not.
It feeds to our most basic fears and desires and does so without our knowledge or input and worse, it's not allowing you to counter those fears or work to ward off those anxieties, it only knows how to feed them. Worse still, it allows advertisers to use them to get you to do what they want. It's like the old meme "I heard you like __ so we put __ on your blank so you can ___ while you ___."

Ever get stuck in the Youtube rabbit hole?
You click on some weird news story and suddenly your feed is full of stories related to that and takes weeks to go away, Facebook works similar but instead of suggesting videos it suggests groups but you knew that part. Most think it ends there or with some ads, but oh no... The less obvious part part is it can also recommend friends who are into that and pull info from them, guess what their feeds are full of. Slip in a story now and then so you see it, but not be inundated by it and now suddenly it seems like everyone you know is into the same thing you are even though you never joined the groups or anything else. And if this is your primary news source, all it takes is slipping in a few well placed mentions and suddenly you have this "organic" seeming movement that rose out of nothing. Sound familiar? If it was smart and was working for you (!), it would detect that you're depressed and slowly lift your spirits, if happy it would try and keep you happy but because advertisers fund it, and fear and anger sells and brings repeat customers far better than happiness and rainbows, advertisers and therefore Facebook caters to it.


This is why Facebook is toxic and always will be so long as it's advertiser and "news" friendly.
Getting rid of news feeds would be a gigantic step in the right direction, between it and the data harvesting it's just too much power in the wrong hands. Facebook probably hasn't really been social media in a long time, it's probably now best described as corporate and government psy-ops posing as social media.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 06 October 2021, 08:33:23 »

Facebook is probably they best psychological tool ever created.

If you live your life on Facebook and it collects all that data


Great write-up. Makes me glad that I have always avoided Facebook "like the plague" which it turns out to be, pretty much.
For the first time, the United States has been demoted to the status of "backsliding" democracy by a major global watchdog of such things. The International IDEA think tank made the change in its newest report, citing "declines in civil liberties" and other factors. The United States now joins troubled inching-towards-autocracy nations like Hungary and Poland — which, notably, have recently been celebrated by far-right pundits as potential models of what this nation should become.
We are still a democracy, but the things that make us a democracy are themselves under attack. International IDEA is blunt in pinning the blame where it belongs, calling Donald Trump's attacks on the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election "a historic turning point." The Guardian quotes International IDEA Secretary General Kevin Casas-Zamora as he notes that "the increasing tendency to contest credible election results, the efforts to suppress participation (in elections), and the runaway polarization" are among the "most concerning developments," and that Trump's attempted nullification of the election with false claims of fraud “was soon replicated, in different ways, in places as diverse as Myanmar, Peru and Israel."
- The Guardian 2021-11-22

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 06 October 2021, 10:05:48 »
Facebook probably hasn't really been social media in a long time, it's probably now best described as corporate and government psy-ops posing as social media.

Well, there's an interplay sure.

And I agree our Hive Mind needs to adapt and evolve.  I don't believe a disconnected Pre-FB society is necessarily better, it was more ignorant and less aware.

Even if we look at "instagram" and how it's "Toxic" to some segment of the population,  well the flip side is, it exposes INCOME INEQUALITY, people SEE IT,   now they're PISSED,    and that's the SEED of CHANGE..  Discontent.

Offline YoungMichael88

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 18 October 2021, 19:55:21 »

Facebook is probably they best psychological tool ever created.

If you live your life on Facebook and it collects all that data


Great write-up. Makes me glad that I have always avoided Facebook "like the plague" which it turns out to be, pretty much.
I got rid of Facebook about 4 years ago. The amount of times I picked up my phone to check FB and then remembering I quit was crazy. It was as habitual as the hand to mouth part of a smoking addiction. On top of that, tho it wasn’t an insanely strong feeling, I still felt a little disappointed when I put my phone back down.

That didn’t last that long tho and I’m happy to only be on instagram just to see people decorate cakes, bake bread and post vinyl records.

I stay out of the comments entirely. I don’t read them or post in them. Nothing but garbage in there.


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Offline Shapey Fiend

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 19 October 2021, 18:29:07 »
I think there are positive ways to use social media as a springboard towards real life socialising. I've met probably 75% of my real life acquaintances through forums and later social media. Ended up with a kid with someone from the other side of the country I'd never have met otherwise.

But on the whole it does often lead to giving you the illusion of social interaction without the meaningful part of in person connection. It also wastes a metric ton of time. I gave up on Tinder because it's such a slog to meet people but read somewhere and think that it's true that it helps you meet women a town over instead of being stuck in the rather limited social pool that is on your doorstep if you don't live in a major population centre.

On the whole I think its a net positive, maybe less so for women. Sports/social clubs I can remember from pre-internet times were full of toxic ****e as well. Ditto TV, magazines, radio and other media. The internet does offer you some choice in what you choose to consume if you are independently minded but it can turn into a time sink as well.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 19 October 2021, 20:27:41 »
I think there are positive ways to use social media as a springboard towards real life socialising. I've met probably 75% of my real life acquaintances through forums and later social media. Ended up with a kid with someone from the other side of the country I'd never have met otherwise.

But on the whole it does often lead to giving you the illusion of social interaction without the meaningful part of in person connection. It also wastes a metric ton of time. I gave up on Tinder because it's such a slog to meet people but read somewhere and think that it's true that it helps you meet women a town over instead of being stuck in the rather limited social pool that is on your doorstep if you don't live in a major population centre.

On the whole I think its a net positive, maybe less so for women. Sports/social clubs I can remember from pre-internet times were full of toxic ****e as well. Ditto TV, magazines, radio and other media. The internet does offer you some choice in what you choose to consume if you are independently minded but it can turn into a time sink as well.

Remember seeing a documentary about maybe it were Irish rural farmers or something where they live so far apart,  that they have to have this agreed upon dance every year where everyone attends to pair off, otherwise they would never be able to meet day to day.

The trouble with forum meetups is that the probability of being Murdard becomes none-Zero.

Offline Shapey Fiend

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 20 October 2021, 01:59:18 »
Probably Lisdoonvarna matchmaking festival its the largest singles festival in Europe. I'd imagine it's mostly older people which Is why I've never gone despite it being right by where I live. I am now of course almost 40 and therefore technically not a young person.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 03:53:29 »
I think there are positive ways to use social media as a springboard towards real life socialising. I've met probably 75% of my real life acquaintances through forums and later social media. Ended up with a kid with someone from the other side of the country I'd never have met otherwise.
It can and is used this way.

The problem is the companies found it more profitable keeping you engaged with THEM as opposed to real life.
This is why Facebook/Google/Twitter dings when someone likes, or subscribes or basically any interaction and does NOT like having outside apps to tell you why you were dinged and why you can't disable much of it. They're purposely vague and use it for EVERYTHING to make you pick it up and check, over and over and over again (they have outright admitted to this). People think this is all about themselves and the more notices the more popular you must be (!) but the reality is these companies have used this to keep you engaged with them. Dating sites do the same thing, especially for men. Almost none of these sites are there to help you connect with people, they exist to help you connect with advertisers.

People thought I was crazy a while back when I said you could use this to manipulate a population psy-ops style, look back at the last few years and tell me it hasn't been used this way. Brexit, Q, climate, the election, Covid... A few years ago people would laugh if you said you ignored 99% of scientists and "did your homework" on Facebook and Youtube now we have 30% of the population listening to Jane the stay at home mom with an (at best) 9th grade education. Boggles the mind.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 09:01:11 »

A few years ago people would laugh if you said you ignored 99% of scientists and "did your homework" on Facebook and Youtube


It is worse than you say. Why use the lame word "homework"?

They have been indoctrinated to call (and actually believe that) watching random Youtube videos "doing research"
For the first time, the United States has been demoted to the status of "backsliding" democracy by a major global watchdog of such things. The International IDEA think tank made the change in its newest report, citing "declines in civil liberties" and other factors. The United States now joins troubled inching-towards-autocracy nations like Hungary and Poland — which, notably, have recently been celebrated by far-right pundits as potential models of what this nation should become.
We are still a democracy, but the things that make us a democracy are themselves under attack. International IDEA is blunt in pinning the blame where it belongs, calling Donald Trump's attacks on the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election "a historic turning point." The Guardian quotes International IDEA Secretary General Kevin Casas-Zamora as he notes that "the increasing tendency to contest credible election results, the efforts to suppress participation (in elections), and the runaway polarization" are among the "most concerning developments," and that Trump's attempted nullification of the election with false claims of fraud “was soon replicated, in different ways, in places as diverse as Myanmar, Peru and Israel."
- The Guardian 2021-11-22

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 14:58:17 »

A few years ago people would laugh if you said you ignored 99% of scientists and "did your homework" on Facebook and Youtube


It is worse than you say. Why use the lame word "homework"?

They have been indoctrinated to call (and actually believe that) watching random Youtube videos "doing research"

It's legitimate research depending on the "Lvl" of depth required.

They put citation on the more sci-ency //medical stuff.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 23 October 2021, 04:53:39 »
Youtube can be research...
I'd trust Louis Rossman with my electronics any day, but I can also verify he knows what the hell he's doing and I'm not asking him for Covid advice.

That's the problem, these people fall into a circle jerk between creators and take it as fact.
Joe says Mary said it worked and he trusts Mary.
Mary said Tom said it worked and she trusts Tom.
Tom heard it from Susan, who he trusts.
Susan actually heard from Joe who heard it from a friend of a friend's unkle's mother who heard it from the village idiot.
And all of them are just trying to garner views and ad revenue.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 23 October 2021, 06:07:52 »
heard it from a friend of a friend's unkle's mother who heard it from the village idiot.


That's exactly the world of peer review though, it's always been like this.

Scientific publication just looks more <official> because the turn over process is laborious/expensive and slow. So, it's as if they done'gud at least for a little while.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 23 October 2021, 08:45:51 »

ad revenue.


When Google created a method to obtain money from mere clicks without regard to the "quality" of the clicks, they set up an environment far more conducive to entertainment than information.

I don't think that it is an exaggeration to say that this new environment, as it has unfolded and evolved to where it is today, has created a chaos monster of global dimensions. Three-quarters of a century ago, in the only comparable reformation in recent history, television revolutionized popular entertainment away from reading but was nevertheless generally restrained by regulation, common sense morality, and respect for reason. There was a clear line between fact and fiction. Even as recently as "The X-Files" in the 1990s there was an clear implicit sense that it was being presented as fiction rather than fact.

Until the FCC abdicated its responsibility in the 1980s, there was a general expectation and trust that a modicum of social responsibility was required to pass the barrier to entry in mass media. Now, both the barrier and the trust have been swept away.
For the first time, the United States has been demoted to the status of "backsliding" democracy by a major global watchdog of such things. The International IDEA think tank made the change in its newest report, citing "declines in civil liberties" and other factors. The United States now joins troubled inching-towards-autocracy nations like Hungary and Poland — which, notably, have recently been celebrated by far-right pundits as potential models of what this nation should become.
We are still a democracy, but the things that make us a democracy are themselves under attack. International IDEA is blunt in pinning the blame where it belongs, calling Donald Trump's attacks on the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election "a historic turning point." The Guardian quotes International IDEA Secretary General Kevin Casas-Zamora as he notes that "the increasing tendency to contest credible election results, the efforts to suppress participation (in elections), and the runaway polarization" are among the "most concerning developments," and that Trump's attempted nullification of the election with false claims of fraud “was soon replicated, in different ways, in places as diverse as Myanmar, Peru and Israel."
- The Guardian 2021-11-22

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 24 October 2021, 05:45:39 »
heard it from a friend of a friend's unkle's mother who heard it from the village idiot.


That's exactly the world of peer review though, it's always been like this.

Scientific publication just looks more <official> because the turn over process is laborious/expensive and slow. So, it's as if they done'gud at least for a little while.


Scientific/peer review is not based on views but instead verifying facts not clicks and sensationalism, yes there is some, but you give FAR, FAR too much credit to the conspiracy side of things.

From experience I can tell you, there is zero peer review and actual science in the conspiracy theory "industry".* It really and truly is a circle jerk, each person is just taking what everyone else hands them and regurgitates it without fact checking or verifying ANYTHING. Word of mouth drives all of it and the source has almost zero value. But if you want an example... There was a Q Youtube personality recently who was accused of working for the CIA... Why? Because the last 3 letters of their first name are cia. Someone started a rumor about it and that was all it took for that rumor to spread like wildfire and almost destroy their entire career.

You're pulling a "both sides" here but it's a false equivalency.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 24 October 2021, 09:04:34 »
heard it from a friend of a friend's unkle's mother who heard it from the village idiot.


That's exactly the world of peer review though, it's always been like this.

Scientific publication just looks more <official> because the turn over process is laborious/expensive and slow. So, it's as if they done'gud at least for a little while.


Scientific/peer review is not based on views but instead verifying facts not clicks and sensationalism, yes there is some, but you give FAR, FAR too much credit to the conspiracy side of things.

That is how we define the ideal, but it is seldom the case, when we involve humans.

For example, Exponent Inc, which the tobacco industries paid to churn out research,   Now meat industries are using them to churn out research in support of eating "More meat",   and OIL companies use them to churn out research that says Burn more oil.

Going all the way back to 1800s, Liebig (german chemist) wrote a paper that meat is what sustains muscular energy.

They proved it at the end 1889 that it was not true,  but the public AND scientific literaries ran with it anyway.  TO THIS DAY, people think you need to eat meat to be strong.  Which is not true, it just makes humans weaker and sicker.


Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 24 October 2021, 09:50:04 »

That is how we define the ideal, but it is seldom the case, when we involve humans.


https://time.com/5175704/andrew-wakefield-vaccine-autism/
For the first time, the United States has been demoted to the status of "backsliding" democracy by a major global watchdog of such things. The International IDEA think tank made the change in its newest report, citing "declines in civil liberties" and other factors. The United States now joins troubled inching-towards-autocracy nations like Hungary and Poland — which, notably, have recently been celebrated by far-right pundits as potential models of what this nation should become.
We are still a democracy, but the things that make us a democracy are themselves under attack. International IDEA is blunt in pinning the blame where it belongs, calling Donald Trump's attacks on the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election "a historic turning point." The Guardian quotes International IDEA Secretary General Kevin Casas-Zamora as he notes that "the increasing tendency to contest credible election results, the efforts to suppress participation (in elections), and the runaway polarization" are among the "most concerning developments," and that Trump's attempted nullification of the election with false claims of fraud “was soon replicated, in different ways, in places as diverse as Myanmar, Peru and Israel."
- The Guardian 2021-11-22

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 25 October 2021, 03:20:16 »
That is how we define the ideal, but it is seldom the case, when we involve humans.

Those are not science, it was people manipulating science.

You're missing the very fundamental problem, on one side, the science matters, where it leads is where it leads, it may be wrong, it may be flawed it may have been manipulated, but it ultimately it finds the correct answer. That's the always the end goal, right or wrong. The other side sees the wrong answer and blames the science, their theory is always correct, they just need to find the one test that proves it, even if there is 350 other tests that prove otherwise they will focus on the one that proves them right. There is no setting the record straight, setting the record straight only makes you an outcast.

Proving science wrong is tricky and can make you an outcast until the world catches up, but eventually it catches up.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Facebook whistleblower Testimony
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 25 October 2021, 08:20:35 »

until the world catches up, but eventually it catches up.


To repeat (again) my favorite quote from our 2nd president John Adams, who stated so eloquently and beautifully over 200 years ago :

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
For the first time, the United States has been demoted to the status of "backsliding" democracy by a major global watchdog of such things. The International IDEA think tank made the change in its newest report, citing "declines in civil liberties" and other factors. The United States now joins troubled inching-towards-autocracy nations like Hungary and Poland — which, notably, have recently been celebrated by far-right pundits as potential models of what this nation should become.
We are still a democracy, but the things that make us a democracy are themselves under attack. International IDEA is blunt in pinning the blame where it belongs, calling Donald Trump's attacks on the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election "a historic turning point." The Guardian quotes International IDEA Secretary General Kevin Casas-Zamora as he notes that "the increasing tendency to contest credible election results, the efforts to suppress participation (in elections), and the runaway polarization" are among the "most concerning developments," and that Trump's attempted nullification of the election with false claims of fraud “was soon replicated, in different ways, in places as diverse as Myanmar, Peru and Israel."
- The Guardian 2021-11-22