Author Topic: System build, thinking outloud  (Read 2623 times)

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Offline Trent

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System build, thinking outloud
« on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 19:15:00 »
Geekhack, answer me this.  Am I overdoing or underdoing this system overhaul?

I've got an older desktop used as a server, but with good hardware in it for the time:
Intel Quad Core Q6600 (4 cores, no hyper threading)
4 x 1 GB DDR2 PC2-6400 (timings 4-4-4-15)
2 x 10,000 RPM Western Digital Raptor Drives (150gb, Software RAID 0)

It currently doesn't fit my power or storage needs (used as server), and I'm looking to bring this desktop into the 2010 decade with a couple of upgrades:
1 x Hardware RAID card (haven't picked a brand yet)
16GB RAM (DDR2 PC2-5300, for reduced price, used)
2 x 2TB Western Digital Green HD's (Hardware RAID 1)
2 x 128GB SSD's (Hardware RAID 0)
2 x 10,000 RPM Western Digital Raptor Drives (150GB total with Hardware RAID 1)

The upgrades in total will cost about $500-$600.

The 2TB drives in RAID 1 are for file storage and differential backups.  All of my current external hard drives are starting to fail and they can't be trusted.  The 128GB (or maybe will go 256GB) will be used for the OS.  I'll be able to partition 8GB off to two separate vmware virtual machines (4GB for 2nd Linux system and 4GB to Win7), 2GB for a Hercules virtual machine and the remaining 6GB will be reserved for the host.  Virtual machine hard drive files will rest on the western digital RAID 1 to prevent excessive writing on the SSDs.  Operating system of choice is Ubuntu Server 12.04 with LXDE desktop.

To answer a question many will have, it has two 512mb 8800GTs in SLI and a monster 1000W power supply, so it should be able to handle the power load.  System is sitting on a battery backup system in case of a power failure or flicker.

Is it better price wise to just make the switch to a newer desktop?  My Q6600 won't do hyper threading, so I won't be able to run 6-7 virtual machines like I was hoping.

Edit: ****.  It turns out my motherboard only has a maxmimum allowance of 8GB ram...  Which isn't good enough.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 May 2013, 19:23:49 by Trent »
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Offline Badwrench

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 20:18:58 »
Not too bad there, but you don't need that much memory, and I would forgo the SSD's for a single 250gb 7200rpm drive. 

The VM's don't use much memory, and since the machine should be running all the time, there is no need for the solid states.  Now...if you will be running the programs from the main os drive, then I would go with a single Samsung 840 250gb ssd (good reads/ so so writes), but you are after the reads at this point. 

One option, would be to sell off the Q6600, ddr2, and mobo and go with an AMD 6 or 8 core setup.  You should be able to get at least $100 for your setup (probably more), and instead of spending a ton on ddr2, you could do something like this:

[PCPartPicker part list](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/10ANB) / [Price breakdown by merchant](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/10ANB/by_merchant/) / [Benchmarks](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/10ANB/benchmarks/)

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
**CPU** | [AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/amd-cpu-fd6300wmhkbox) | $119.99 @ Microcenter
**Motherboard** | [Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3 ATX  AM3+ Motherboard](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-ga970ads3) | $69.98 @ Newegg
**Memory** | [Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cml16gx3m2a1600c10r) | $109.80 @ Newegg
**Storage** | [Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-internal-hard-drive-mz7td250bw) | $159.99 @ NCIX US
**Storage** | [Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st3000dm001) | $119.99 @ NCIX US
**Storage** | [Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st3000dm001) | $119.99 @ NCIX US
 | | **Total**
 | Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available. | $696.93
 | Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-05-27 21:15 EDT-0400 |


After selling off your old stuff, this should run you about the same and be a good performer.  Not to mention, another TB of redundant storage. 
wut. i'd buy a ****ty IBM board for that green V2

Offline Trent

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 20:33:59 »
Not too bad there, but you don't need that much memory, and I would forgo the SSD's for a single 250gb 7200rpm drive. 

The VM's don't use much memory, and since the machine should be running all the time, there is no need for the solid states.  Now...if you will be running the programs from the main os drive, then I would go with a single Samsung 840 250gb ssd (good reads/ so so writes), but you are after the reads at this point. 

One option, would be to sell off the Q6600, ddr2, and mobo and go with an AMD 6 or 8 core setup.  You should be able to get at least $100 for your setup (probably more), and instead of spending a ton on ddr2, you could do something like this:

[PCPartPicker part list](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/10ANB) / [Price breakdown by merchant](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/10ANB/by_merchant/) / [Benchmarks](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/10ANB/benchmarks/)

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
**CPU** | [AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/amd-cpu-fd6300wmhkbox) | $119.99 @ Microcenter
**Motherboard** | [Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3 ATX  AM3+ Motherboard](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-ga970ads3) | $69.98 @ Newegg
**Memory** | [Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cml16gx3m2a1600c10r) | $109.80 @ Newegg
**Storage** | [Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-internal-hard-drive-mz7td250bw) | $159.99 @ NCIX US
**Storage** | [Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st3000dm001) | $119.99 @ NCIX US
**Storage** | [Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st3000dm001) | $119.99 @ NCIX US
 | | **Total**
 | Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available. | $696.93
 | Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-05-27 21:15 EDT-0400 |


After selling off your old stuff, this should run you about the same and be a good performer.  Not to mention, another TB of redundant storage. 


Cool thanks for the suggestion.  I haven't used any of the automatic part picking websites before, they didn't exist the last time I did this system build.

As for a couple of your points:
* What runs under the VMs will be utilizing their full amount of RAM (for what I'm doing)
* I'll definitely take into advice the SSD, I'm dying to get one, and yeah the system will be on 24/7
* I think the suggestion to do a sell off is the right one.  I'll probably get the system sold as a whole with the case any everything.  I'd like to move to a case that is a bit more intimidating, has better cable storage, and more fans.

Quote from: Trent
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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 20:41:42 »
I agree with most of what Badwrench posted, especially going with a bigger SSD over two smaller ones, but there's really no reason to recommend a TLC NAND SSD over an MLC NAND SSD. You should go with 840 Pro or something with MLC, not the 840 non Pro imo.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 20:53:06 »
Are you doing EVERYTHING on this, or just server?

Why do you need the 8800gt sli?

Offline Badwrench

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 20:56:16 »
I agree with most of what Badwrench posted, especially going with a bigger SSD over two smaller ones, but there's really no reason to recommend a TLC NAND SSD over an MLC NAND SSD. You should go with 840 Pro or something with MLC, not the 840 non Pro imo.

I weighed the pros and cons when I was shopping for one.  Ended up with the 840 TLC nand unit in 250gb size.  I only have a handful of programs on it and am not doing a lot of writing to it, so I figured that the price/gb was where I wanted to be.  The 840 pro is another $70, and I just didn't want to spend that much. 

Also, to the op, just found this:  http://www.overclock.net/t/1393379/for-sale-gigabyte-990fxa-ud3-amd-fx-8120-price-drop
wut. i'd buy a ****ty IBM board for that green V2

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 20:59:48 »
AMD is a bad choice for CPU right now, due to intel's huge ipc lead, and OC-ability.

Dellided 3770k can do 4.8ghz.. way way faster than anything amd has.

even without dellide, the 3770k does 4.5ghz average

Offline Leslieann

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 21:30:09 »
You won't get much from an SSD unless you have Sata3. They are faster, but you will only see half the gain without Sata3.

I would pass on the older 6 core AMD, it isn't much faster than first Gen I5 or even an older Q9550 (seriously), not that impressive in my opinion, at least compared to a newer I5's and I7. Intel had and still holds a massive performance lead.  If I was to go AMD though, it would be the newer FM2 Trinity series. I built one the other day (A10 5800k) and I was extremely impressed and I wouldn't get anything less than that. It's decently fast, but as tp4tissue mentioned, an overclocked I5 will still destroy it. On the other hand, keep in mind that either of these have more than enough power and will make your q6600 look pathetic.


I definitely agree with Badwrench on memory. I have 16gigs and 8 of it is pretty much wasted.
Also, buying 16gigs of DDR2, have you looked at the price for that? When I wanted 16gigs of it, it was cheaper to buy a new board, DDR3 and a new I5! Even used, it likely won't be cheap by any means. Besides that, most DDR2 boards won't support 16gigs. Not that you need it.

By switching to something newer, you not only get DDR3, you also get Sata3 and USB 3.  Not a bad deal.


Raid... If you can avoid it, do.
It's at least twice as likely to fail. 2 drives, each with a chance of failure, plus you can have software/hardware failure as well. On newer SSD's they flow enough data to where it doesn't matter anyhow (on Satat3).


I would encourage you to consider your backup system as well since you plan to have so much storage, particularly raid storage. That much storage, when full, is a backup nightmare. One thing I did was I made a deal with someone to host a small system at their office. In exchange for that, I backup their office to my house, my house to the office. I made a full backup over local network before moving the system.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 May 2013, 21:36:10 by Leslieann »
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Offline Trent

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 22:39:50 »
Are you doing EVERYTHING on this, or just server?

Why do you need the 8800gt sli?

The SLI is left over from when this used to be my main desktop.  I've long since converted it to a server.  I've occasionally used the nvidia cards for bitcoin mining, yield wasn't too good and gave up on it.
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Offline MKULTRA

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 23:15:06 »
I don't really think Raptors are necessary.  If I am reading that correctly you are just putting Ubuntu on them?

Offline Badwrench

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 00:01:33 »
AMD is a bad choice for CPU right now, due to intel's huge ipc lead, and OC-ability.

Dellided 3770k can do 4.8ghz.. way way faster than anything amd has.

even without dellide, the 3770k does 4.5ghz average

I agree completely if this was a gaming or editing machine, but as a server, more threads to run multiple vm's far outweighs ipc.  A 3770k costs the same as the cpu, mobo, and ram I just posted. 
wut. i'd buy a ****ty IBM board for that green V2

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 00:57:12 »
AMD is a bad choice for CPU right now, due to intel's huge ipc lead, and OC-ability.

Dellided 3770k can do 4.8ghz.. way way faster than anything amd has.

even without dellide, the 3770k does 4.5ghz average

I agree completely if this was a gaming or editing machine, but as a server, more threads to run multiple vm's far outweighs ipc.  A 3770k costs the same as the cpu, mobo, and ram I just posted. 

the 3770k will be in some sort of blow out sale soonish... keep eyes-out...

and POWA swavings is around $100 per year clock for clock

Offline Leslieann

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 05:03:04 »
I agree completely if this was a gaming or editing machine, but as a server, more threads to run multiple vm's far outweighs ipc.  A 3770k costs the same as the cpu, mobo, and ram I just posted.

I missed the part about it being used as a server...

The 6core, with a new board is a good combo. More threads, plenty of power.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 05:17:18 »
I agree completely if this was a gaming or editing machine, but as a server, more threads to run multiple vm's far outweighs ipc.  A 3770k costs the same as the cpu, mobo, and ram I just posted.

I missed the part about it being used as a server...

The 6core, with a new board is a good combo. More threads, plenty of power.

the AMD 8 core is a hybrid of sorts, and not truly 8 cores..  It performs as if it were 6.5 cores, LOL....  but that aside, it's performance is abysmal compared to an OCed Intel..

And IDK why you guys are ignoring power consumption, since this will be a "server".. I'd say $100 per year savings over amd is quite right for a low load 24/7 rig.

And the Intel has significantly more Memory bandwidth.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 07:11:07 »
I think saving $100 a year in power savings is more than a bit optimistic.

Not to mention with all those drives he is considering, I doubt power consumption is all that big of an issue. And just what do you think overclocking that Intel will do to the power consumption.
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Offline Badwrench

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 10:25:19 »
I don't think he is looking at power savings.  The op is running an old 1000w psu that I will bet is not 80+ or better.  Oh, and 8800sli is not sipping power either.  In addition, overclocking a server is relatively pointless, he is not trying to get an extra 2fps or finish an editing job 3% faster. 
wut. i'd buy a ****ty IBM board for that green V2

Offline Trent

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 11:39:03 »
I don't think he is looking at power savings.  The op is running an old 1000w psu that I will bet is not 80+ or better.  Oh, and 8800sli is not sipping power either.  In addition, overclocking a server is relatively pointless, he is not trying to get an extra 2fps or finish an editing job 3% faster. 

Power saving?  What is that? lol

Haven't done a full test of the energy usage in a while, but yes those 8800's aren't sipping much power at all since they're not being used much.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 12:34:29 »
I think saving $100 a year in power savings is more than a bit optimistic.

Not to mention with all those drives he is considering, I doubt power consumption is all that big of an issue. And just what do you think overclocking that Intel will do to the power consumption.

Overclocked intel will still use less than the AMD at stock. :D

Offline Lanx

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 13:06:04 »
i've had raid-0 ssd's for 5 years (2x30gb ssds in 2007 to 2012), if and when they fail, it's ANNOYING, honestly at that time, 30gb ssd's was about as big as they got (in a cost effective way) so i had to raid them, wouldn't do it again. From installing a new os, to just weird stuff happening (just out of the blue after 3 years, firmware decided to sleep forever)... i would never do raid on my OS drive. please take the suggestions and get 1 OS ssd drive, either 128 or 256...

so happy with just one big ssd os drive, and with ssd's there really isn't a noticable difference if you're raiding the current gen ssd's anyway... the biggest realization is just getting ANY ssd from a regular 7200rpm, or even a raptor drive, it's like driving an oldsmobile vs driving (insert dream car)... adding raid to that dream car is just like adding a spoiler or cool rims...

Offline Leslieann

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Re: System build, thinking outloud
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 16:49:17 »
I think saving $100 a year in power savings is more than a bit optimistic.

Overclocked intel will still use less than the AMD at stock. :D
Are you sure about that?

AMD 8500k stock
Idle 44 watts
Max 100 watts

Intel 3770k stock
Idle 47 watts
Max 77 watts 
@4.8/stock voltage  150 watts.  (approximate)

At stock speeds, there is no way that there is a $100 savings per year there.
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