Kayliss opened a PayPal dispute

[7bit]

I post this here because he has 106 posts at GH but none at DT, so I consider him to be mainly a GH user.

It is totally unfair to:

- order 360 switches (which had been orderd and money has been sent to the manufacturer) which will be deliverd in around September 2013.
- then wanting to jump off prior to the already known delivery date.
- but not asking me if he can get out, but instead filling a PayPal dispute right away, in order to close down a PayPal account.

So, one for all times:

In any group buy, no matter on which forum it is run, no matter who organises it,

- when the manufacturer has been paid, there is no money back!

- never try to lock down the PayPal account in order to bring down the group buy. It happend before and killed at least 2 group buys I know of.

Thanks for reading.

[tp4tissue]

what switches.. I'm sure we can make up the diff

[SmallFry]

what switches.. I'm sure we can make up the diff

Not if his PayPal has been locked up.

[funkymeeba]

That is some special kind of horsecrap right there. Sorry to hear, 7bit.

[Sifo]

That's ****ed up.

[Tym]

"It's a me, Mario!"

[Rendom]

Damn..

[SpAmRaY]

Thats a lot of switches. Hope you get this resolved!

[jdcarpe]

We haven't heard the other side yet...

[esoomenona]

We haven't heard the other side yet...

There's no time for that! The pitchforks are nice and ready. /s

[funkymeeba]

We haven't heard the other side yet...

This is very true! We need to not do this lynch mob thing again. It's ugly.

[fohat.digs]

creating a Paypal dispute locks down the account?

is that the disputer or the disputee?

[Tym]

creating a Paypal dispute locks down the account?

is that the disputer or the disputee?

I think there is just the possibility of this.

[tp4tissue]

creating a Paypal dispute locks down the account?

is that the disputer or the disputee?

I'd think both, because they don't want this to be Money laundering .. all the small transactions.

[Dubsgalore]

We haven't heard the other side yet...

[jwaz]

That isn't cool. I'm not versed in paypal rulings but don't they usually side with buyers? :/




EDIT: BUT HOW OLD WAS HE?!!?!? jkjk

[Rendom]

I've made a dispute before, but it has never locked up my paypal though.

Takes two hand to clap. Let's wait for the other side of the story.

[tp4tissue]

That isn't cool. I'm not versed in paypal rulings but don't they usually side with buyers? :/

depends on your credit...

If you spent say $10,000 with paypal, and always pay on time,  they're pretty much 100% going to side with you..

[tjcaustin]

And This Needed To Be Public Because...?

That isn't cool. I'm not versed in paypal rulings but don't they usually side with buyers? :/

They Usually Side With Who Is Right. Ask The Buyer That Loses And Its Paypal Sides With Seller And Visa versa

[WhiteFireDragon]

If this thread isn't just for public shame, you should probably talk directly with the guy.

And this definitely isn't cool. Maybe I should cancel his GH60 order to avoid this from happening to us also.

[Latin00032]

How can the account be locked because of just saying there is a dispute?

That would make Paypal unreliable if you can lock an account that easily.

[metalliqaz]

Kayliss, get in here and say something for yourself.  What did 7bit do that required a dispute?

[Rendom]

Kayliss, get in here and say something for yourself.  What did 7bit do that required a dispute?

He should be here in a bit I guess, he's Australian, it's about 5-6 AM/+2 over there.

[tjcaustin]

Kayliss, get in here and say something for yourself.  What did 7bit do that required a dispute?

For One He Has No Obligation To Publicly Respond At All, So Maybe Lose The Indignation?

If this thread isn't just for public shame, you should probably talk directly with the guy.

And this definitely isn't cool. Maybe I should cancel his GH60 order to avoid this from happening to us also.

Putting The Cart Before The Horse Much?

There Is No Reason for This Thread To Exist Other Than To Create Unneeded Drama. None Of Us Have Any Power To Decide AN Outcome

[WhiteFireDragon]

Kayliss, get in here and say something for yourself

*Yes mother*

[The_Beast]

Kayliss, get in here and say something for yourself.  What did 7bit do that required a dispute?

For One He Has No Obligation To Publicly Respond At All, So Maybe Lose The Indignation?

If this thread isn't just for public shame, you should probably talk directly with the guy.

And this definitely isn't cool. Maybe I should cancel his GH60 order to avoid this from happening to us also.

Putting The Cart Before The Horse Much?

There Is No Reason for This Thread To Exist Other Than To Create Unneeded Drama. None Of Us Have Any Power To Decide AN Outcome

Why Is Every Word Capitalized?

[jdcarpe]

He's Probably On A Phone

[esoomenona]

I'm calling out TJ. He's typing each word with a capital letter. I'm going to pay an invoice, then open a dispute with him because of that.

[The_Beast]

^ lol

He's Probably On A Phone

That Explains Everything!

[alaricljs]

mUst nOt bE aN iPhone.

[inteli722]

mUst nOt bE aN iPhone.

I loL'd at thIs.

seRiously. I thInk he neEds to coMe ouT anD anSwer foR thIs. he haD maNy otHer alTernatives to opEning a diSpute wiTh paYpal.

[BunnyLake]

my 2 cents is that everything should be dealt with privately and something like this should be a last resort after a total breakdown in communication

that being said, sucks if this is all tru

[fohat.digs]

They Usually Side With Who Is Right. Ask The Buyer That Loses And Its Paypal Sides With Seller And Visa versa

I disagree. The overwhelming prejudice is in favor of the buyer.

Supply and demand - if demand exists suppliers will line up to fulfill it.

Ebay would do anything to reassure buyers (demand creators) that they are protected. Sellers, not so much.

[jalaj]

FACT: 7bit has built a solid reputation as a trustworthy person with all the ongoing and successful group buys ran under his belt.
Ergo, 7bit has the benefit of doubt until said person defends herself/himself, even then it has to be a pretty darn convincing story.
Assuming that 7bit has already tried to contact Kayliss to no avail.
It's best to publicize the situation to others and let them decide if they want to deal with a shady person for possible future transactions.
IMO (not that my singular opinion matters), 7bit is doing us all a favor. Thx.

[BunnyLake]

FACT: 7bit has built a solid reputation as a trustworthy person with all the ongoing and successful group buys ran under his belt.
Ergo, 7bit has the benefit of doubt until said person defends herself/himself, even then it has to be a pretty darn convincing story.
Assuming that 7bit has already tried to contact Kayliss to no avail.
It's best to publicize the situation to others and let them decide if they want to deal with a shady person for possible future transactions.
IMO (not that my singular opinion matters), 7bit is doing us all a favor. Thx.

thank god the world doesnt work this way

[tjcaustin]

FACT: 7bit has built a solid reputation as a trustworthy person with all the ongoing and successful group buys ran under his belt.
Ergo, 7bit has the benefit of doubt until said person defends herself/himself, even then it has to be a pretty darn convincing story.
Assuming that 7bit has already tried to contact Kayliss to no avail.
It's best to publicize the situation to others and let them decide if they want to deal with a shady person for possible future transactions.
IMO (not that my singular opinion matters), 7bit is doing us all a favor. Thx.

thank god the world doesnt work this way

^

Because refusing to refund someone their money on something that can easily be resold is trustworthy and solid, am I right?

There are no favors being done here, just a weird vendetta.

[Lanx]

some ppl are just paypal idiots, they're dumb and just go and open a dispute and choose to do it that way rather than talk one on one, probably they don't know any better, or worse yet, they're afraid of confrontation.

[rknize]

This happened to me a couple of times during R4.  Most of the time, they just didn't know any better.  My account never got locked, but the disputed amount was pulled from my balance until the dispute was closed.  It was inconvenient but not a disaster.

[demik]

mUst nOt bE aN iPhone.

()|-| ()|-| 1 `///-\|\|"|" "|"() |D|_/-\`/

[TheQsanity]

Noooo!!!!!

[kmiller8]

[Kayliss]

Not that a thread really needed to be made.... 

I had some issues getting in contact with ... anyone. I won't go into specifics as I don't believe the details of what I needed to discuss are important.

I had no interest in canceling my order.

- then wanting to jump off prior to the already known delivery date.
- but not asking me if he can get out, but instead filling a PayPal dispute right away, in order to close down a PayPal account.

Both of these points are completely untrue. I've never actually filed a paypal dispute before, I had no idea the account gets 'closed down'. I am not sure where 7bit is getting these ideas from as it is the opposite of what was communicated to him lastnight before I went to bed and he posted this thread. 

Threads such as this http://deskthority.net/off-topic-f10/gh-moderation-strikes-again-t5859.html and this http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ibm-model-m-silver-label-138671-early-production-model-t5839.html are why I completely avoid posting on DT.

Just on a personal note, i've joined many GB's in the past without any issue. In several years of using paypal i've never had to open a dispute. I have also traded with several members of GH without issue.
 
Btw I did indeed just log on

Edit: I posted more originally but this is a really stupid thread.  )

[Kayliss]

I figured I would just add, seeing as you felt this needed to be a public topic.

Is there any other GB organizer that I have caused issue for in my time here? I mean usually I take several hours to pay the invoice  that's pretty bad.

[demik]

Threads such as this http://deskthority.net/off-topic-f10/gh-moderation-strikes-again-t5859.html and this http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ibm-model-m-silver-label-138671-early-production-model-t5839.html are why I completely avoid posting on DT.

thanks for linking those.

i found this hilarious

Become moderator of reddit keyboards, sell all in hidden auctions, give everyone the middle finger, quit keyboards?

GH's savior being ragged on by webwit haha

[fruktstund]

"I didn't file a PayPal dispute with the purpose to lock down his account, so I did no wrong" is basically what I'm interpreting your post as Kayliss. Now, I don't know what happened between you two and who did wrong and who didn't, and I don't really care at all, but I definitely think this thread serves a purpose in explaining the risks of not communicating with the group buy organizer when you have to drop out or such.

Sometimes I wish this kind of stuff would be common sense, but apparently it isn't. I don't think it should be needed to explicitly explain the risks of filing PayPal complaints in every group buy. Who am I to complain though?

No hard feelings. Just hate it when/if people ruin stuff for others.

[Kayliss]

The thing is, I had not interest in dropping from the group buy. I am not really sure why 7bit posted that.
 I don't wish to talk down to 7bit, but his version is very different to the truth.
An inability to communicate with him or the person who took the payment is the problem I had. Perhaps this thread and 7bit/the person taking the payments response, explains why the communication problems occurred in the first place.
 
Again I don't understand why this is a thread. It's a matter between 2 or 3 people, not the entire keyboard enthusiast community. I appreciate all the opinions, but really, how is it possible you have anywhere near enough information to base an opinion on?

[fruktstund]

Sounds a lot better when you explain it like that. And, yeah, I don't really think anyone of us, except for 7bit maybe, have enough information to direct our complaints at you.

Feels like this thread is a "shame on you Kayliss" kind of thread, so I agree with you that the best would be to solve it between you guys. Some  of the information in here is quite useful though, so maybe a purely informative thread, without anyone's name to be shamed, about some kind of group buy etiquette would've been better. (This opinion may not really be relevant to this discussion, though.)

I guess the most important thing for everyone to learn is that communication is king. :>

[Kayliss]

I spoke with 7bit last night via pm's before he posted this. It seems like he did not wish to communicate. I'd suggest if any more information is required from me that those questions are asked in email by the parties involved. As has been pointed out publicly, they have all my details and my home address.

[Rendom]

tinlong is a joke.

[SpAmRaY]

tinlong is a joke.

how did tinlong get involved in this?? so random....

edit nevermind figured it out 

[rowdy]

Rendom is random )

[7bit]

@Kayliss:

You did not try to contact me via pm @ Deskthority.
You did not post in the forum.
You did not even cleared your order.
All you did was open a dispute to get the money back. Money that has been sent to the manufacturer, so we can't refund it.

The complete amount of 206.34 EUR has been locked by PayPal because of your dispute.

If you ask for a reason for this thread: To warn others. Some group buys rely 100% on PayPal and if someone goes crazy and files a dispute then the whole thing can get locked for 180 days.

There where at least 2 group buys which had been hugely delayed or killed (Sixty's Vortex RACE group buy) by this.

[Kayliss]

Are you adressing that to me or a wider audience? 

Are you simply trying to get some sympathy?

I had no interest in canceling my order.

I had some issues getting in contact with ... anyone. I won't go into specifics as I don't believe the details of what I needed to discuss are important.

I'd suggest if any more information is required from me that those questions are asked in email by the parties involved. As has been pointed out publicly, they have all my details and my home address.

There was no reason for you to make this thread, atleast none that I can see, not so soon, before the dispute has even been resolved.
I can't tell anymore if you're serious or just making stuff up. 

[7bit]

If you did not want to cancel the order, why did you then file a dispute?

Also, you still refuse to tell me by which means you tried to contact me.

[Kayliss]

I'd suggest if any more information is required from me that those questions are asked in email by the parties involved. As has been pointed out publicly, they have all my details and my home address.

Please go ahead and read that. Then my other responses. All I am getting from this is that your communication skills are very limited. Please step back, take a breath and think. If you want to discuss anything further it can be done privately.

[7bit]

Did not yet receive an e-mail or pm or anything that explains your behavior.

I'm sick of people like you. We will decide if we just leave it locked for quite a while or just refund the money.

Good day.

[Latin00032]

Keep it private guys. Hopefully, you can come to a positive agreement.

You don't want everyone else on GH to be involved to assume things.

[7bit]

Money refunded. Thread can be closed.

[tp4tissue]

So... Kayliss was just straight up lying ??

[Kayliss]

How did you get to that conclusion?

[jdcarpe]

So... Kayliss was just straight up lying ??

I think we should just stay out of it. It's been resolved, and there's no more need for discussion. It was only really between 7bit, Kayliss, and the Paypal proxy ever, anyway.

/drama

[metafour]

But I haven't finished my popcorn...

[Kayliss]

 

[tp4tissue]

Well, I'm just worried that if he WAS just completely dishonest, he should be ip-banned from trading, because I would be scared to deal with someone that would lie about something that could take down a huge group buy letting down lots of people over a mere $200 buyers remorse.


Can't the mods just check the PM and time stamps and just let people know?

There' s not a serious privacy concern here, as kayliss was already called-out

[Kayliss]

I don't really want to go into it anymore, I mean if you can't read whats already posted then more isn't going to help you. No buyers remorse. A hold was placed on the money not the account. 7bit gave his side. I chose to not go into great detail simply because this thread was pointless. Of course any GB organizer can PM me and ask anything they wish.

Edit: As I said earlier in the thread. I've never had issue with any other GB or private trade. If anyone would care to point out anything related to other GB's i've been involved in please go ahead.

[tp4tissue]

I don't really want to go into it anymore, I mean if you can't read whats already posted then more isn't going to help you. No buyers remorse. A hold was placed on the money not the account. 7bit gave his side. I chose to not go into great detail simply because this thread was pointless. Of course any GB organizer can PM me and ask anything they wish.

Hi Kayliss.. I'm refering to the post where you said you PMed 7bit..

then He said , You did not..

Screenshot of timestamped pm.. you can choose not to reveal content.. just the timestamp of pms that were sent when you SAID they were sent...

[Kayliss]

He said, she said. 

[nullstring]

Right, but you're completely refusing to offer any proof in any direction, which makes it much easier to side with 7bit.
Just for reference.

[tp4tissue]

Right, but you're completely refusing to offer any proof in any direction, which makes it much easier to side with 7bit.
Just for reference.

Exactly, If you lied about one thing.. and a trivial issue at that, it raises the potential that you've been dishonest about the OTHER things you've said.

I don't see how the time-stamp screen shot would be a problem , since you can take one, and we wouldn't see any of the actual messages you wrote, only the time stamp and the recipient.


You've mentioned that you got "good cred"  well this is where good cred comes from. screenshots @ native resolution 

Don't even contemplate photoshop , we have experts

[Rendom]

It's already resolved? This thread needs to be closed.

[Kayliss]

As I said if anyone with a real interest requires 'proof' they can contact me. I am not here to entertain people. It's a private one off matter.

Unfortunately 7bit thought this was a public matter, he put more thought into this thread than any contact with myself privately.

[SpAmRaY]

It's already resolved? This thread needs to be closed.

7bit can close it right? because he started it?

[tp4tissue]

As I said if anyone with a real interest requires 'proof' they can contact me. I am not here to entertain people. It's a private one off matter.

Unfortunately 7bit thought this was a public matter, he put more thought into this thread than any contact with myself privately.

There's no such thing as privacy on the internet..

Especially on a forum..

This is a community..

And we have "trust" in the community


Trust in YOU, Kayliss, has been called-on..


Thus by the loose laws of online court, you must post screenshots to defend your honor...

[7bit]

He complained he can't contact me. But he never came forward with what the real issue was. So, money is refunded.

[Kayliss]

The invitation for you to contact me in private is still there, 7bit. If you're able to be civil. I understand you'd like to get the last word in here though so please go ahead.   

Edit: Changed to something more productive.

[metalliqaz]

So you ordered something and paid for it.  The one and only valid reason to open a dispute would be if you felt that 7bit wouldn't or couldn't deliver what you ordered.  Based on the current status of R4, that couldn't be the case since shipping has started but it's still to early to have received anything yet.  Given the vague statements earlier in the thread, I'd have to say you did it for spite.  I don't do business with Australians anyway because of the postal situation there, but whatever, I have another name for my 'naughty' list...

[Ninjerk]

I see stuff like this happen all the time on a variety of message boards.

The last time I've ever been really stiffed was years ago, and it changed me in a way. I'm not as charitable with people I don't know.

[tp4tissue]

I see stuff like this happen all the time on a variety of message boards.

The last time I've ever been really stiffed was years ago, and it changed me in a way. I'm not as charitable with people I don't know.

Have faith Ninjerk.. Most long time members will not stiff you.. Only the noobers..

[Input Nirvana]

-Publicly announcing the dispute was wrong by 7bit. Basically creating  a 'pre-threadcrap' on GH. 2 sides to the story, and it's no ones biz.

-TP (troll king) keeps egging Kayliss to prove something...sorry TP, that's not how it works. Kayliss is not obligated. It's a private dispute regardless of 7bits attempt to call it out. What's 7bits REAL motivation?

-Someone will buy the extra stuff. People always do. No biggie.

-Not directly related but 7bits Group 4 buy is dragging on for YEARS...a good example of NOT how to do a group buy. WAY too big, WAY too much profit, WAY too long, WAY too complex. I doubt it will ever be WAY complete. There's a Harvard study using it as an example. LOL

-Disputes happen, they don't have to be the END OF EVERYTHING. There's usually a solution, albeit someone may not be 100% happy. But 85% happy is good enough, then we all move on to the next great thing. Look at couples...they have disputes all the time yet they still hop in bed together at night.

Close this thread. Serves no purpose, never did.

If this thread stays open, I'll ramp up and start shooting everything down. Y'all remember how well THAT used to go.

[tp4tissue]

His trade reputation is at stake..

It's not about obligation..

[Input Nirvana]

He knows what he's doing. If he feels the need, he'll do what he thinks is best for him.

Contact him via pm. Don't trash/threaten him in the forums. It debases us all.

[orlando]

On another note ... what switches did he buy? I might be interested 

[tp4tissue]

He knows what he's doing. If he feels the need, he'll do what he thinks is best for him.

Contact him via pm. Don't trash/threaten him in the forums. It debases us all.

where did I trash him.. I've yet to say one mean thing.

[Input Nirvana]

He knows what he's doing. If he feels the need, he'll do what he thinks is best for him.

Contact him via pm. Don't trash/threaten him in the forums. It debases us all.

where did I trash him.. I've yet to say one mean thing.

You need me to say it?
You keep challenging him and putting him in a negative light as though he's done something wrong and needs to defend himself. Stop the drama. It's no one's concern but theirs and it's settled. No matter the details of who said what or ratings, etc. Stay out of it, let them do what they choose to do or not.

It's over, nothing to see, there never was.

I'm not posting in this thread anymore, it's all been said and is a closed issue. Anything further is of no consequence.

BACK TO KEYBOARDS!