Looking for THE mouse

[Theobeo]

Allright ladies and gentlemen.

It is now my turn to make a thread which makes the semi-intelligent mind and above consider this thread stupid and furthermore ignorant and probably a thread started without the OP having read the "Looking for mouse? read this first..."

But for a matter of fact, I might be one of the "WHAT MOUSE SHOULDZ I BUYZ?!?!?!" who has read the most into mice, technology and shape and most of all: how to determine my preferences. I am also asking for help so I dont have to buy 5-6 mice and do individual testing and waste money.

USELESS BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

Games I play:

I have played competetive Counter-strike 1.6 for about 6 months (Played the game for 3-4 years) and then 6-months at approximately professional level. Without mentioning any notable titles or competitions won or attended, i just want to say that I am very, frankly speaking, freakish about my equipment and its functionality. When I played this game I have played mostly with laser mice, (Roccat Kone, Steelseries Xai and Steelseries Sernsei), and as a user of Mouse-acceleration and user of MouDrV acceleration, the positive and negative acceleration of laser mice was never a concern to me and since these mice delivered a better shape for me I wasnt thinking about optical kontra laser sensor technology.

HOWEVER

Since counter-strike 1.6 has died about 6 months ago, I started playing another game with goals of going solo- therefore I started playing starcraft 2.

In Starcraft 2 however, acceleration is NO option when it comes to consistent high-level performance. I have played the game for about 4 months now and I am top 8 masters on EU ladder. Speaking of a experienced acceleration user, here are my thoughts:

- Acceleration in RTS is bad since you do much more than you do in FPS; rely on fast-paced movements on 2 different levels: The macroscopic and the Microscopic. Macroscopic speed in SC2 is what I refer to when you constantly move the mouse around to select different things and move as fast as possible. This is going from a building to a unit to the minimap ETC - it is about getting the mouse to certain areas. The Microscopic speed is where acceleration becomes a problem for you. In SC2 you dont need pixel-precision as you do in FPS. In FPS you can play with acceleration since you make a macroscocpic speeds to do 180 degrees turns and try to shoot the head, but since macroscropic speeds with high-dpis can result inaccurcay and macroscopic speeds with low-dpis can result slow 180 turns, acceleration can be a compromise for that solution.

In RTS games you are constantly relying on macroscopic speed when moving the most despite what DPI you use. The faster you do things, the better. You cant play with acceleration and expect to do things "faster" since you rely on macrscopic and micoscopic speeds on all CPI/DPI levels, and if those constantly change as a cauuse of acceleration (Im talking about TRUE hardware/software acceleration and not windows-acceleration) youre going to factor Microscopic and Macroscopic cpis into infinite levels on control, resulting that your movements are no longer faster than you wish it to be - tehrefore acceleartion in RTS is a bad thing.

So to the point:

Ive now started playing SC2 for 4 months as said and Im now switching from my current mouse. Steelseries sensei to a mouse that fits my non-acceleration mousetracking the best. After constantly watching pro-players Ive realised how their mice-tracking compared to my sensor (at about 2000 DPI with 6/11 windows-sens and 1920 1080 windows screen) seem to make much more precise playing and Im convienced it is because they use an optical mouse instead of me using laser - however it is not for all programers I see that and it is not neccessarily important to be fast to be good at SC2, I just say that this is the case for me - I want to be as fast as possible.

- Mouse Preferences

- Optical mouse. I use a customized claw/palm grib with 1 finger on button1, 1 finger on scroll and 1 finger on button2. I dont really care about mouse shape or size as long as I- after testing- can see that I play at a given level or not.

- I need an optical sensor that can track 1600 DPI or above non-interpolated, no acceleration, no hardware acceleration, no jittery and as few problems as possible.

- The lighter the mouse the better, and the smaller the mouse, the better. However I can tend to prefer it has at least 1 or 2 extra m-buttons (IE buttons.) But then again, it is not going to be alpha omega for my choice. i just need a mouse where I can perform as good and fast as possible.

- The feel/shape/surface of the mouse is also irrelevant, as long as it doesnt cause any problems.

- My hand is "mid-size" and mice bigger than abyssus but smaller than deathadder (old version) fits in my hand the best, but its only a VERY slight feeling-difference. I can totally play with deathadder and totally play with abyssus too.

- I dont care about Lift Off Distance. As long as tracking while mouse is maintaining contact with mousepad I want AS BEST possible tracking. My philosphy is basically taht I want a mouse where I can have as high-dpi as possible and still maintain pixel-precise accuracy. The way I define this is if I can move the mouse to make a square 1-by-1 pixel almost without failing. If the mouse starts skipping or jumping too frequently it is prbobably not what I want.

- I do not care about the cord.

- I want Mousebutton 1 and 2 to be as spammable and clickable as possible - Ive actually had experience with razer deathadder (Old version) where the buttons might be big with omron-switches but the "flexibility" of the button itself allows finger-force to spam the button almost as frequently as with palm-force (if you know what I mean)

For example:

Finger force is used to spam buttons when the hand is EXCLUSIVELY using the fingers as the trigger-machine. This is present when you use claw or palm gribs.

With finger-gribs, you can use the palm sometimes to make a shaking-trigger to the mousebutton and therefore press the button significantly faster than you can with palm/claw cribs. This is not super relevant but it is a demental perference for me.





So far Ive played with Razer Taipan and Sensei, and so far my experience is that Razer Taipan delivers SLIGHTLY better accuracy (Probabyl just because i control it beter.) I have 2000 dpi on that mouse and I can make a 1-by-1 pixel square and fail only every 4th or 5th attempt with a 1 or 2 pixel inaccuracy.


- Mice im thinking about so far and why:

I have had trouble finding exact tracking differences between Avago S3888 and Abago A3090, but I assume both sensors are "perfect sensors" in a gaming-mouse vocalaboray, but I guess some high-quality minds can help me on the matter.

Basically I am looking for a mouse with THE BEST and MOST RELIABLE and with MOST DPI sensor available.


Razer Deathadder 3.5g

The main reason im considering this mouse is basically how popular it is. It appears to me that most people find this mouse the best. The only minus with this mouse is the shape, sins its mainly designed for palm-grips with little and ringfinger resting on the ergnomic side of teh mopuse, however, I only use the little finger for my grib. I can 100% still play with this mouse and i dont want you to exclude this suggestion if u sincerely think its best.
The second reason is because of the button-flexibility that allows spamming, however, since razer-build quiality is not near precise the button-feel can vary but ive tried a couple of deathadders time to time.

Zowie AM

This mouse is in my thoughts because of its very nice MSI 1.1 shape and it has 4 total side-buttons (I almost require at least 2), but I am not sure if this mouse supports better tracking than Deathadder does. However if I should choose out of shape, this would win over the deathadder. Zowie also seem very strick that the DPI is non-interpolated and therefore they must have made the mouse both in soft- and hardware to deliver at its best. (So has razer tbh.)

Roccat Savu


Beside it is "the new king of mice" and has an exact same sensor as zowie AM but magically delivers "4000 dpi without interpolation" and 16.8 million colors etc.etc this mouse might also be in my thoughts because of its shape, And tbh; i might find it slightly better looking that zowie AM given my hand is SLIGHTLY wider than it is longer compared to "standard handssize comparison".

Logitech G400

This mouse is also on the list because of popularity, but Im not sure if I can rely on it because it has malfunctioning tracking to 800 DPI and above. Therefore the CPI I need, which is 1500+, would be interpolated and inaccurate. However if any einsteins to clear things for me, this mouse might stay on the list, but so far I dont want it. The shape of this mouse is no doubt my favourite, especially since the buttons seem so slim and easy-to-press, but I still have a feeling that deathadders flexibility in button 1 and 2 is best suiting for me.

CM Storm Recon

This mouse compared to Savu:
- Same sensor
- A bit better mousebuttons on the side
- A tiny bit better form

"Precise Tracking
 
Thanks to the best Optical Sensor on the Market (Avago 3090) The CM Storm Recon tracks movements with the highest optical sensitivity on the market. Users can fine tune the sensitivity and define up to 4 DPI Levels for each Profile."

Can I rely on this statement from the website? It is the same roccat says about their sensor but, how can avagao 3090 be 4000 dpi on this mouse and 2300 on Zowie AM? Is it because of custom lens? Does CM Storm and roccat savu ahve inaccuracte / interpolated CPI values?

Abyssus and EC1 Evo is also on my list but I have "semi-outcasted" them since I would alwayus choose zowie AM over EC1 evo and Deathadder over abyssus.

So, after this fine fairy tale, please feel free to share your handsomeness with my handsomeness. And to those interested, this is my priority so far:

1. Deathadder 3.5g
2. Zowie AM
3. CM storm Recon
4. Roccat Savu.
5. Logitech g400

If you have any other mice for suggestion, feel free. I would prefer not to hear about laser mice. Thank you

[tp4tissue]

Um.... For counter-stike, it is actually better to have Prediction/angle snapping... because in CS the world is very "box" like. Meaning you'll never need to shoot following "round edges."

The obstructions in CS all have FLAT edges, which means prediction is "better" for this specific situation.....

The CM Spawn is actually the best choice, because it has FIRMWARE level tweaking for angle snapping, on/off, therefore you can switch for whenever you need to play a different game that require different precision.

It also uses the same industry standard sensor that's in ALL of the other mice you've listed.

The recon in my opinion is not as good as the spawn unless you're left handed. The shape of the spawn is just retarded good.

[NikoGasm]

I'll start by admitting that I'm by no means a mouse expert. However, I've been using the Razer DeathAdder Black edition for about a year, and I absolutely love it. I play CS:S, CS:GO, and SC2, and this mouse has never steered me wrong. It feels absolutely amazing in my hand, it's a great size,a and I love the rubber feel of it.

I would just like to note that I do use this with a claw grip.

The mouse itself is pretty well-sized. I have fairly large hands and it fits me well. I'd recommend it to anyone with medium to extra large hands.

[fuzzybaffy]

I'll start by admitting that I'm by no means a mouse expert. However, I've been using the Razer DeathAdder Black edition for about a year, and I absolutely love it. I play CS:S, CS:GO, and SC2, and this mouse has never steered me wrong. It feels absolutely amazing in my hand, it's a great size,a and I love the rubber feel of it.

I would just like to note that I do use this with a claw grip.

The mouse itself is pretty well-sized. I have fairly large hands and it fits me well. I'd recommend it to anyone with medium to extra large hands.

My experiences with the Deathadder are pretty much the same as his. I, too, use the Deathadder with a claw-grip, and it's been pretty much perfect:

Although, I must say I'm also considering buying the G9x again, which I've tried very briefly a couple of times, and really really liked.

But, since you say you are looking for tracking accuracy, then yes, the Deathadder is probably one of your best bets.

Also, TBH, I'm not sure the pixel-by-pixel accuracy really matters all that much. I understand all the major laser mice using Avago sensors have hardware-built-in acceleration (and that's what you're trying to avoid), but in my experiences, in practical in-game use it doesn't make much of a difference.

For what it's worth, Liquid Taeja, one of the better SC2 players, who has AMAZING micro skills, uses a G9x (that's the G9x without either of the grips), which has acceleration built into the hardware: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=jaiP9C7GbHU&NR=1

It does say he uses the Abyssus on his Team Liquid page: http://www.teamliquidpro.com/liquidtaeja, but I think that's older/outdated compared to the youtube video I just linked.

[TheProfosist]

I skipped everything you said just to recommended the G700.

lol just kidding i recommended the CM spawn and xornegt i think for ehat your loorking for.

[tp4tissue]

I'll start by admitting that I'm by no means a mouse expert. However, I've been using the Razer DeathAdder Black edition for about a year, and I absolutely love it. I play CS:S, CS:GO, and SC2, and this mouse has never steered me wrong. It feels absolutely amazing in my hand, it's a great size,a and I love the rubber feel of it.

I would just like to note that I do use this with a claw grip.

The mouse itself is pretty well-sized. I have fairly large hands and it fits me well. I'd recommend it to anyone with medium to extra large hands.

My experiences with the Deathadder are pretty much the same as his. I, too, use the Deathadder with a claw-grip, and it's been pretty much perfect:

Although, I must say I'm also considering buying the G9x again, which I've tried very briefly a couple of times, and really really liked.

But, since you say you are looking for tracking accuracy, then yes, the Deathadder is probably one of your best bets.

Also, TBH, I'm not sure the pixel-by-pixel accuracy really matters all that much. I understand all the major laser mice using Avago sensors have hardware-built-in acceleration (and that's what you're trying to avoid), but in my experiences, in practical in-game use it doesn't make much of a difference.

For what it's worth, Liquid Taeja, one of the better SC2 players, who has AMAZING micro skills, uses a G9x (that's the G9x without either of the grips), which has acceleration built into the hardware: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=jaiP9C7GbHU&NR=1

It does say he uses the Abyssus on his Team Liquid page: http://www.teamliquidpro.com/liquidtaeja, but I think that's older/outdated compared to the youtube video I just linked.

Well, he's sponsored. so...... u no how that goes.... And for starcraft. Mouse precision doesn't really matter.  It is far more strategy oriented, like chess. Because while the players "look" like they're really busy spamming commands, those are primarily muscle memory, their minds are actually elsewhere planning.

The Real time, in Real time strategy, is just going through the motions...

[Cindori]

[fuzzybaffy]

I'll start by admitting that I'm by no means a mouse expert. However, I've been using the Razer DeathAdder Black edition for about a year, and I absolutely love it. I play CS:S, CS:GO, and SC2, and this mouse has never steered me wrong. It feels absolutely amazing in my hand, it's a great size,a and I love the rubber feel of it.

I would just like to note that I do use this with a claw grip.

The mouse itself is pretty well-sized. I have fairly large hands and it fits me well. I'd recommend it to anyone with medium to extra large hands.

My experiences with the Deathadder are pretty much the same as his. I, too, use the Deathadder with a claw-grip, and it's been pretty much perfect:

Although, I must say I'm also considering buying the G9x again, which I've tried very briefly a couple of times, and really really liked.

But, since you say you are looking for tracking accuracy, then yes, the Deathadder is probably one of your best bets.

Also, TBH, I'm not sure the pixel-by-pixel accuracy really matters all that much. I understand all the major laser mice using Avago sensors have hardware-built-in acceleration (and that's what you're trying to avoid), but in my experiences, in practical in-game use it doesn't make much of a difference.

For what it's worth, Liquid Taeja, one of the better SC2 players, who has AMAZING micro skills, uses a G9x (that's the G9x without either of the grips), which has acceleration built into the hardware: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=jaiP9C7GbHU&NR=1

It does say he uses the Abyssus on his Team Liquid page: http://www.teamliquidpro.com/liquidtaeja, but I think that's older/outdated compared to the youtube video I just linked.

Well, he's sponsored. so...... u no how that goes.... And for starcraft. Mouse precision doesn't really matter.  It is far more strategy oriented, like chess. Because while the players "look" like they're really busy spamming commands, those are primarily muscle memory, their minds are actually elsewhere planning.

The Real time, in Real time strategy, is just going through the motions...

Sponsored... by Logitech?

[tcv]

I'll start by admitting that I'm by no means a mouse expert. However, I've been using the Razer DeathAdder Black edition for about a year, and I absolutely love it. I play CS:S, CS:GO, and SC2, and this mouse has never steered me wrong. It feels absolutely amazing in my hand, it's a great size,a and I love the rubber feel of it.

I would just like to note that I do use this with a claw grip.

The mouse itself is pretty well-sized. I have fairly large hands and it fits me well. I'd recommend it to anyone with medium to extra large hands.

My experiences with the Deathadder are pretty much the same as his. I, too, use the Deathadder with a claw-grip, and it's been pretty much perfect:

Although, I must say I'm also considering buying the G9x again, which I've tried very briefly a couple of times, and really really liked.

But, since you say you are looking for tracking accuracy, then yes, the Deathadder is probably one of your best bets.

Also, TBH, I'm not sure the pixel-by-pixel accuracy really matters all that much. I understand all the major laser mice using Avago sensors have hardware-built-in acceleration (and that's what you're trying to avoid), but in my experiences, in practical in-game use it doesn't make much of a difference.

For what it's worth, Liquid Taeja, one of the better SC2 players, who has AMAZING micro skills, uses a G9x (that's the G9x without either of the grips), which has acceleration built into the hardware: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=jaiP9C7GbHU&NR=1

It does say he uses the Abyssus on his Team Liquid page: http://www.teamliquidpro.com/liquidtaeja, but I think that's older/outdated compared to the youtube video I just linked.

I've played starcraft for 10 years and used alot of different mice.

G9X was the best
Zowie Mico was next

[demik]

Show Image

Most unhelpful picture ever.

I owned the Storm spawn and while it was nice to hold, it was way too light for me. And the dpi settings where either too high or too low.

I also have a mx518 and mouse was too big for my claw grip.

Now I own a g9x and 2 deathadders. Currently using a deathadder BE. which I'm enjoying.

My main things were adjustable dpi settings and fingertip/claw grip. Adjustable weights on the g9x was a nice bonus too. And the deathadder has a nice weight to it.

I'm also rambling as I didn't even read the OP.

[gameaholic]

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2024663

I'm rocking a G400 right now.  I had got one when they first came out but didn't like it.  Then I heard they changed the sensor so I got another one and I really like it.  I also did the tape mod. 

 

[metalliqaz]

That picture is nice and all, but WTF?  Intellimouse on top of the heap???

[swagpiratex]

another + for deathadder and g9x combo

[baldgye]

That picture is nice and all, but WTF?  Intellimouse on top of the heap???

It's one of the best mice on the market, though the G5 (the one top middle of that pic) I would call out as the best mouse ever made.
As someone who's spent money on mice in the past, that was one of the cheapest, best made, best feeling and easiest to get used to mouse I've ever used and I miss it.

[maui]

That picture is nice and all, but WTF?  Intellimouse on top of the heap???

its the best mouse

[dc]

That picture is nice and all, but WTF?  Intellimouse on top of the heap???

It's one of the best mice on the market, though the G5 (the one top middle of that pic) I would call out as the best mouse ever made.
As someone who's spent money on mice in the past, that was one of the cheapest, best made, best feeling and easiest to get used to mouse I've ever used and I miss it.

I loved my G5 too, would have got another if they were still making them. I like my G500 I have now too though, they're fairly comparable.

[Lanx]

- I want Mousebutton 1 and 2 to be as spammable and clickable as possible - Ive actually had experience with razer deathadder (Old version) where the buttons might be big with omron-switches but the "flexibility" of the button itself allows finger-force to spam the button almost as frequently as with palm-force (if you know what I mean)

i think the reason this works is cuz the switch is actually closer to the middle of the mouse, rather than at the edge of it, it's actually so close to the mouse center i did not have to remove it when i modded my death adder with a cherry switch, the omron switch is actually still there, if i wanted to, i can use my palm to activate it along with the cherry switch.

[Surreal Killa]

I got the SteelSeries Sensei (MLG Edition).

[daerid]

IE 3.0 will always rule the roost. You can't improve on it's tracking. That being said, I'm in love w/ my G400 and sensei

[wetto]

Show Image

While the M60 is indeed a fine mouse and far better for me than my old Razer Deathadder 3.5G, I can't defend the Corsair M90 as being a good mouse. First of all, the Corsair management software for this mice is HORRIBLE. The macros system is far worse than a Razer Deathadder's and hell, it was soo bad a few months ago up to the point where when you changed the DPI configuration on its interface, the mouse sometimes stopped working and you had to reinstall the firmware just to get it working again.

IMO, the M60 may stay at the GOOD tier, but the M90 deserves to be on the stupid one.

Seriously, the software is terrible, and thus it renders all the macro buttons on the M90 just about useless.