Need help in understanding changing switches and keyboards.

[singaporean123]

I'm sure some of you are wondering,"why the hell isn't this guy googling, what a d-bag". The answer is-I don't know exactly what I'm supposed to google for.

I've seen soldering wizards here on GH, and the talk about how someone can "change" their switch to ghetto/vintage (insert colour) switches.

The thing I don't understand is what it means to change a switch.

Does changing a switch mean yanking out the entire switch on any keyboard? Or does it just mean opening the switch and changing the spring and stuff?(How does one open a switch to reveal the spring anyway?)

Why do some boards require desoldering and soldering for the switch, but the poker does not require desoldering and soldering to change switches(or so I hear).

I have no skills in soldering, and I'm not too keen on getting a kit and start experimenting on my only keyboard( CM QFR ).

I'm currently thinking of getting a poker so that I can change switches to something else when I want to, but I've got all those questions in my head.

Any help will be appreciated, cheers

[McWilloughby]

I too would like to know more about this tbh.

As far as soldering goes though, I learnt to solder when I was about 10 with some kits they sell at a place called Maplin Electronics (no idea if they'll have that where you live). Basically you buy your soldering iron (obviously) and then they have a whole range of PCBs you can buy that come with all the stuff to solder on to make a full circuit. I had a few, one was to make a metronome, one was an LED sign thing (not programmable sadly) and one was a pong console that you plugged into your TV. I really would recommend these if you do want to get into soldering as obviously it doesn't mean you have to rip apart your keyboard. They were also pretty cheap (I think the most expensive one, the pong board, was about £10), worth having a look if you have any sort of electronics supplies store that would sell this kind of thing.

[rowdy]

A bit of both, really.

You can take teh top off the switch, either with custom switch keytop removal tools or just a couple of small screwdrivers (only held on with a couple of plastic clips) and replace the spring and/or plunger.

Or you can completely remove the switch, which requires desoldering, and replace the entire switch with a different one.

For some people it is easier just to buy switches than to buy switch parts.  Or buy an older keyboard and harvest switches or switch parts.

Plate mounted switches require desoldering even to remove the top of the switch as the plate prevents the plastic tabs from being levered back to get the switch top off.

This is in relation to Cherry MX switches, and based on heresay.

[jdcarpe]

I went through the exact learning curve you are now faced with, when I was new here. The difference being, that I had an exhaustive wiki to refer to. I could describe in text exactly how this process works, but you might still be confused by some of it. You really need images to illustrate some of these techniques. I wish I had a camera capable of taking macro shots. If no one can help with this before I have some free time tonight, I'll give it a go.

[singaporean123]

@rowdy : so if I intend to desolder all the keys and add "the_beast" plate , I won't be able to change switches as easily anymore?

@jdcarpe: I'm actually going to get a poker in a month or so, and I'm just trying to work out what needs to be done if I want to change the switches, etc. I've always liked the whole "aluminium case/plate" thing so the whole keyboard feels really solid, and I want to find out more about what needs to be done.

[Sai]

Even if you are adding metal plate, you can easily mod the switches as the plate is designed to be mod friendly.
For soldering/desoldering part, i can't say as I haven't done it yet either.
But just be cautious when opening the switches as it can get screwed up easily. ( from my exp )

[Jocelyn]

@rowdy : so if I intend to desolder all the keys and add "the_beast" plate , I won't be able to change switches as easily anymore?

@jdcarpe: I'm actually going to get a poker in a month or so, and I'm just trying to work out what needs to be done if I want to change the switches, etc. I've always liked the whole "aluminium case/plate" thing so the whole keyboard feels really solid, and I want to find out more about what needs to be done.

I've watched quite a few of WhiteFireDragon's videos (Linked below), and he says the plate allows you to take off the switch tops without desoldering, while 4 of the switches will require you to file the Poker plate.

Poker plate filing -

list=UU8WqdwRVjibpzHqvg_69gzw&index=5

Ergo Clear switch mod video that explains soldering/desoldering very well imo -

[WhiteFireDragon]

singaporean123, just assume ever keyboard that has a plate will require desoldering of every switch (a few korean boards are exception, like the LZ), otherwise you'll ruin the switch and/or tear traces out of the PCB. The only boards you can take the top cover of the switch off safely are ones without a plate, because there are no plate to prevent the switch clips from opening. Jocelyn just linked my video that's pretty comprehensive. It shows you the whole process and shows an upclose of opening the switch in one of the parts.

Only recent custom plates will allow you to open the switch without desoldering, because they have a space that doesn't lock the switch tabs in.

[tp4tissue]

OKOK,,, First is first,.....

BUY   a  SOLDAPULLT.... that's how it's spelled... SOLDAPULLT

[jdcarpe]

Okay, here goes.

(some of this has already been covered)

In order to open a switch from a plate mounted keyboard, you must first desolder all the switches from the PCB. Once you have done that, the PCB should come away cleanly from the plate with the switches still mounted to it. Once the PCB has been removed, pop each switch out of its hole in the plate from the back.

In order to open a switch with an LED installed in it, you must first desolder and remove the LED before you can proceed. Then, see above, if plate mounted.

If you want to install a plate on a keyboard that doesn't currently have a plate installed, you must desolder all the switches to install it. Once you have done that, you install the switches onto the plate, then mount it on the PCB and solder the switches back into place.

For PCB mounted switches (i.e. a board with no plate installed), you do not have to desolder the switches to open them.

In order to open the switch, you have to "pop" open two tabs on each side of the switch housing. Once all four tabs have been opened, the switch can be taken apart.

Here are some pictures to help guide you:

PCB-mount switch. Note the plastic "pins"


Plate-mount switch. Note the lack of said pins.


Side view of switch. Arows point to "tabs" which hold the two housing halves together.


Note the gap between the housing halves where this switch has been opened. Note how the tabs look.


Yellow arrow points to the gold electrical contacts. Green arrow points to the post where the spring sits.


View with spring installed onto post.


With stem installed on top of the spring. Yellow arrows point to contacts. Green arrows show the sliders of the stem, which need to be aligned to the same side of the switch as the contacts.

[Jocelyn]

Thank You for the photos jdcarpe and of course for the videos WFD. So based on everything I've read thus far, would it be safe to assume that replacing a broken LED would require nothing more than desoldering/soldering a new LED with or without  plate?

[jdcarpe]

Thank You for the photos jdcarpe and of course for the videos WFD. So based on everything I've read thus far, would it be safe to assume that replacing a broken LED would require nothing more than desoldering/soldering a new LED with or without a plate?

Correct.

Edit: Let me add one caveat. When desoldering LEDs, the amount of solder on the board is very small. I find it very helpful to add a bit of solder before trying to suck the melted solder from the pad. Even then, sometimes it still has a tiny amount holding the LED to the board. In that case, I have to hold and gently pull the led with needle nose pliers on one side of the PCB, while applying heat with a soldering iron to both the pins on the other side of the PCB. It can be tricky.

[tp4tissue]

Thank You for the photos jdcarpe and of course for the videos WFD. So based on everything I've read thus far, would it be safe to assume that replacing a broken LED would require nothing more than desoldering/soldering a new LED with or without  plate?

YOU NEED a SOLDAPULLT... there's no way around this... because these plastic switch housings melt VERY easily...  Soldapullt will minimize the risk.

But , it's also to protect the BOARD from overheating,, because the laminate is CHEAAAAAAP

[jdcarpe]

Yes, I NEED a SOLDAPULLT. But I don't have one yet, so I make do with what I have.

[Jocelyn]

YOU NEED a SOLDAPULLT... there's no way around this... because these plastic switch housings melt VERY easily...  Soldapullt will minimize the risk.

But , it's also to protect the BOARD from overheating,, because the laminate is CHEAAAAAAP

Yes, yes, yes lol and it's probably good that you posted this on the second page as well. I'm not soldering or desoldering, just wanted to understand

Edit: Well second page on my 10 Posts per Page Tapatalk

[singaporean123]

Wow, I did not expect such great response for this thread!

@jdcarpe: BIG THANKS for the pictures and pointers, it helped out greatly!

@WFD: I actually took the time to watch the entire video, and it's a great video, very detailed!

Now let me get this straight.

If I mount the switches onto the beast plates, I would have to solder the switches back onto the PCB right?

Does that mean that I cannot remove the switches without desoldering even after I have mounted them onto the plate?

[jdcarpe]

Does that mean that I cannot remove the switches without desoldering even after I have mounted them onto the plate?

On a normal plate mounted keyboard, such as a CM QFR, Filco, Rosewill, etc., you would be correct. On new custom plate designs (since Phantom), there are cutouts in the switch hole on the plate to allow those tabs to open while the switch is still mounted in the plate and soldered to the PCB. You just have to insert something thin and narrow into the top of the switch housing where those tabs are to pop them open.

[WhiteFireDragon]

If I mount the switches onto the beast plates, I would have to solder the switches back onto the PCB right?

Does that mean that I cannot remove the switches without desoldering even after I have mounted them onto the plate?

Desoldering just allows you to remove the switch from the PCB. After you install it on the plate, you still need to solder everything back, otherwise you won't have proper electrical contact. The solder also mechanically holds the switches/PCB in place.

I mentioned before that recent custom plates are designed so you can remove the stop switch housing without having to desoldering the switch again. These plates includes the original phantom plate, poker plate, my universal TKL plates, and the upcoming phantom plates.

Thank You for the photos jdcarpe and of course for the videos WFD. So based on everything I've read thus far, would it be safe to assume that replacing a broken LED would require nothing more than desoldering/soldering a new LED with or without  plate?

Yes that's correct. But just keep in mind that LEDs are more fragile in terms of soldering. They'r much more susceptible to overheating than the switches because they have a lower heat capacity. It has to be done quicker and with a temperature-controlled iron. Cheap irons just stay at the maximum heat, which is terrible for small SMD and LEDs.

[cgbuen]

With stem installed on top of the spring. Yellow arrows point to contacts. Green arrows show the sliders of the stem, which need to be aligned to the same side of the switch as the contacts.

Show Image

As an aside, I'm wondering about terminology.. when people talk about lubing stems, the "sliders" actually refer to the parts jutting out on the sides of the stem, and not what the green arrows point at, right?

Probably could be good to clarify to know whether I lubed mine in the wrong places, or in case someone reading this might be putting lube in a place they're not supposed to in the future.

[jdcarpe]

With stem installed on top of the spring. Yellow arrows point to contacts. Green arrows show the sliders of the stem, which need to be aligned to the same side of the switch as the contacts.

Show Image

As an aside, I'm wondering about terminology.. when people talk about lubing stems, the "sliders" actually refer to the parts jutting out on the sides of the stem, and not what the green arrows point at, right?

Probably could be good to clarify to know whether I lubed mine in the wrong places, or in case someone reading this might be putting lube in a place they're not supposed to in the future.

I think you did yours right. I didn't know what to call the little angled part with the hump (on that brown stem), so I called it a slider, since it slides in contact with the gold crosspoint electrical contacts. I think you only need to lube those flat parts on the sides and maybe the spring. I've not done any lubing yet.

[jeroplane]

I think you did yours right. I didn't know what to call the little angled part with the hump (on that brown stem), so I called it a slider, since it slides in contact with the gold crosspoint electrical contacts. I think you only need to lube those flat parts on the sides and maybe the spring. I've not done any lubing yet.

From what I've seen others call them, I like to refer to the parts as "sliders" and "leaf contacts". The point of lubing the sliders is to reduce the friction with the sides of the switch housing, which isn't necessary for the part that touches the gold contacts or "leafs". Most people also lube the top and bottom of the spring since they also touch the housing, but I'm not sure that really makes much of a difference.

Some Cherry switches actually come with a tiny bit of lube on the leaf contacts too, I'm not sure why. Seems to be only on the tactile switches.

[WhiteFireDragon]

I use my own "7-point" lube technique, with 2 separate types of lube for different points. I've done a few keyboards like this. It adds another hour or two to the process, but if you're meticulous about keyboards, then you should do that too. The guild by MMB does not go over all 7 points, only about half them.

It's hard to describe in words where those points are, so I made a video of the process. I just need to be more motivated to edit and upload all my videos :/

[Sai]

I use my own "7-point" lube technique, with 2 separate types of lube for different points. I've done a few keyboards like this. It adds another hour or two to the process, but if you're meticulous about keyboards, then you should do that too. The guild by MMB does not go over all 7 points, only about half them.

It's hard to describe in words where those points are, so I made a video of the process. I just need to be more motivated to edit and upload all my videos :/

You Are Motivated ! Now Upload All Your Videos !
 
I really want to see though

[singaporean123]

@jdcarpe: But the poker does not have a "top casing" right..? That means the switch can be opened up with or without 'the_beast' plate, am I right?

@whitefiredragon: I just saw your nano silver video, I too work in a lab haha. When you said your universal TKL plate, do you mean that you've made some plates that allows opening switches without desoldering the switch? Do you have those for sale?

keyboards are serious business.

[verbhal]

Yes WFD get to editing! Was watching some of your videos earlier and they were great.  Learned a lot and am starting to consider getting some gear so I can start tearing my keyboards apart. 

[WhiteFireDragon]

You Are Motivated ! Now Upload All Your Videos !
 
I really want to see though

Why does it matter. I'm building all your keyboards anyways haha. Videos is not very high up on my priority list right now, but it'll eventually get done.

@jdcarpe: But the poker does not have a "top casing" right..? That means the switch can be opened up with or without 'the_beast' plate, am I right?

@whitefiredragon: I just saw your nano silver video, I too work in a lab haha. When you said your universal TKL plate, do you mean that you've made some plates that allows opening switches without desoldering the switch? Do you have those for sale?

lol now you're just being nosy. Nano silver colloids has nothing to do with keyboards. That video was when I was still an undergrad 5 years ago. I'm now in grad school.

Anyways, Poker can have the top switch housing removed, with or without the custom plate. The universal TKL plates are these that I designed, they do allow opening of the switches without desoldering, and also switch between costar and cherry stabilizers. Most are for the people from the GB, but I did order a few extras.

[Sai]

You Are Motivated ! Now Upload All Your Videos !
 
I really want to see though

Why does it matter. I'm building all your keyboards anyways haha. Videos is not very high up on my priority list right now, but it'll eventually get done.

haha. its ok. i am learning new things just being on GH.

[rowdy]

These pics (and video links) should go in to the wiki

[tp4tissue]

7 point lube system? wtf... how much are these guys paying you for that kind of motivation

[cgbuen]

I use my own "7-point" lube technique, with 2 separate types of lube for different points. I've done a few keyboards like this. It adds another hour or two to the process, but if you're meticulous about keyboards, then you should do that too. The guild by MMB does not go over all 7 points, only about half them.

It's hard to describe in words where those points are, so I made a video of the process. I just need to be more motivated to edit and upload all my videos :/

Are some of those points the stem's "leaf contacts" that jdcarpe pointed to with the green arrows? I've been under the assumption that those are the exact places you don't want to get lubricant on, but it would be great to know whether that's really true.

[WhiteFireDragon]

I use my own "7-point" lube technique, with 2 separate types of lube for different points. I've done a few keyboards like this. It adds another hour or two to the process, but if you're meticulous about keyboards, then you should do that too. The guild by MMB does not go over all 7 points, only about half them.

It's hard to describe in words where those points are, so I made a video of the process. I just need to be more motivated to edit and upload all my videos :/

Are some of those points the stem's "leaf contacts" that jdcarpe pointed to with the green arrows? I've been under the assumption that those are the exact places you don't want to get lubricant on, but it would be great to know whether that's really true.

Where did you hear this? That "leaf" you're referring to can be lubbed. It's not a requirement, but it does help. Those two plastic "leaf" from the stem pushes on the two metal tabs sticking out (not sure what this is called) is only mechanical, it doesn't actually provide any electrical contact. The actual contact is in the middle and it's only a very small dot. The two metal tabs only acts as a spring to prevent the actual contact from being constitutively actuated.

If you looked really closely at the metal piece and find the contact point, I'm sure you'll be able to figure out how it all works. If you don't care about that, then just take my word for it that it's perfectly safe to lube that part, and I actually recommend it.