Author Topic: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?  (Read 18745 times)

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Offline rootwyrm

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 21:00:35 »
Honestly, I don't really care that his calculation was based on an incorrect premise, but I do care when someone calls me a horrible failure that needs to go back to remedial arithmetic.

Because you are. Deal with it. You claimed it would be unreasonable to test and cited a hundred years of typing.

First of all, a mechanical actuator can run 24x7x365 and hey there's  31.5 million seconds in a year. Which means performing 50 million actuations at an entirely reasonable rate of 3 per second gives you 94,672,800 actuations performed per year per actuator. Or nearly two full destructive tests per year. And that's the low side - they likely do a 250ms cycle (or lower) meaning 4 actuations per second giving you 12,500,000 seconds or just 144 days for full destructive cycle.

Secondly, you seem unable to differentiate MTBF and MTTF, or use the search function properly. Which is filed under "not my problem." I'm using complex models that take a variety of factors into account including exactly how much I type using over a decade of empirical data. You have yet to provide any equations whatsoever to back up your "100 years" claim, much less any explanation of where you got that number other than pulling it out of your ass.

But since you appear bad at math and reading, here, I'll help you out with the basic arithmetic that proves you're full of it.

The world's fastest is 956 CPM.
There are roughly 124,800 minutes of work in a year (52 * 40).
That's 119,308,800 keystrokes in a year.
Of these 119,308,800 keystrokes, they are unevenly distributed with anywhere from 60-95% of them on just 37 keys.
That gives an average of 3,224,562 actuations per individual key presuming use of 37 keys and evenly distributed.
These 37 keys are not evenly distributed. Count the number of E's in the previous sentence as example.
Even if we falsely presume that all 37 keys are evenly distributed that gives a MTBF of 15.5 years and a realistic MTTF of <9 years.

And this is all predicated on no more than 40 hours per week of usage ever, with not more than a total of 2,080 hours of usage in a single year.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 21:12:52 »
Honestly, I don't really care that his calculation was based on an incorrect premise, but I do care when someone calls me a horrible failure that needs to go back to remedial arithmetic.

Because you are. Deal with it. You claimed it would be unreasonable to test and cited a hundred years of typing.

First of all, a mechanical actuator can run 24x7x365 and hey there's  31.5 million seconds in a year. Which means performing 50 million actuations at an entirely reasonable rate of 3 per second gives you 94,672,800 actuations performed per year per actuator. Or nearly two full destructive tests per year. And that's the low side - they likely do a 250ms cycle (or lower) meaning 4 actuations per second giving you 12,500,000 seconds or just 144 days for full destructive cycle.

Secondly, you seem unable to differentiate MTBF and MTTF, or use the search function properly. Which is filed under "not my problem." I'm using complex models that take a variety of factors into account including exactly how much I type using over a decade of empirical data. You have yet to provide any equations whatsoever to back up your "100 years" claim, much less any explanation of where you got that number other than pulling it out of your ass.

But since you appear bad at math and reading, here, I'll help you out with the basic arithmetic that proves you're full of it.

The world's fastest is 956 CPM.
There are roughly 124,800 minutes of work in a year (52 * 40).
That's 119,308,800 keystrokes in a year.
Of these 119,308,800 keystrokes, they are unevenly distributed with anywhere from 60-95% of them on just 37 keys.
That gives an average of 3,224,562 actuations per individual key presuming use of 37 keys and evenly distributed.
These 37 keys are not evenly distributed. Count the number of E's in the previous sentence as example.
Even if we falsely presume that all 37 keys are evenly distributed that gives a MTBF of 15.5 years and a realistic MTTF of <9 years.

And this is all predicated on no more than 40 hours per week of usage ever, with not more than a total of 2,080 hours of usage in a single year.

Look at my calculations..

Your assumptions are WAY Worse than OP's..

You have too many things that don't apply to real people...

The person who has written the most words is @ 100,000,000 words published

The only way you can get close to your 10-20 years number, is if we go by the rule: an author writes 20x as much as he publishes..

There has only been 1x guy with 100,000,000 english words...


Considering english is one of the more bloated languages in terms of characters used, we can safely say he did use the most characters.

100,000,000 would only be 2 keyboards.. in 70 years of service for "THAT GUY'...

Your assumptions of work days is ridiculous...

Offline abdulmuhsee

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 21:21:52 »
Because you are. Deal with it...

...But since you appear bad at math and reading, here, I'll help you out with the basic arithmetic that proves you're full of it.

Will you just shut up already?  I didn't think I'd need to add anyone here to the ignore list, but you, sir, are a real brat.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 21:23:19 »
Because you are. Deal with it...

...But since you appear bad at math and reading, here, I'll help you out with the basic arithmetic that proves you're full of it.

Will you just shut up already?  I didn't think I'd need to add anyone here to the ignore list, but you, sir, are a real brat.

You're both pretty bratty

Offline abdulmuhsee

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 21:26:06 »
You're both pretty bratty
Show Image


If you say so  :rolleyes:

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 21:29:12 »
You're both pretty bratty
Show Image


If you say so  :rolleyes:

but I prefer your simplified assumptions over the rootwyrms though.  He's got too much stuff that's not realistic..


Offline rootwyrm

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 21:40:45 »
Because you are. Deal with it...

...But since you appear bad at math and reading, here, I'll help you out with the basic arithmetic that proves you're full of it.

Will you just shut up already?  I didn't think I'd need to add anyone here to the ignore list, but you, sir, are a real brat.

You're the one who demanded math to back it up.

Now you're whining when it's provided.

Maybe go back to Reddit.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 21:50:14 »
Because you are. Deal with it...

...But since you appear bad at math and reading, here, I'll help you out with the basic arithmetic that proves you're full of it.

Will you just shut up already?  I didn't think I'd need to add anyone here to the ignore list, but you, sir, are a real brat.

You're the one who demanded math to back it up.

Now you're whining when it's provided.

Maybe go back to Reddit.

You didn't do any math... you just pulled numbers + Assumptions outta thin air like Cherry Corp.

Offline Tony

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 02 September 2013, 23:57:14 »
This thread can extend to 50.000 posts before my old Compaq MX 11800 (brown switch) (made in 1985 year and still working) has any switch failure.

I want to leave that Compaq keyboard for my future generations, too bad now the chidren prefer the Ipad, Galaxy Notes and Nexus.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline 1391406

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 03 September 2013, 00:27:47 »
^This thing don't even bottom out.

If you pause the video, you can see it's fully depressing the keys, though.
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline jonathanyu

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 03 September 2013, 00:36:16 »
They probably use one of these:

damm! i like that machine! i want to put it at home and look at it "typing"

Offline Polymer

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 03 September 2013, 02:53:25 »
I have elaborated on the math that gives me an expected lifetime of 187 days for Cherry MXes, at great length, and holy crap I actually know how to unit test AND measure these things! I mean there's no WAY someone who cares about their keyboards would do silly things like research, RIGHT?

So what about your 187 days? It isn't your math..it was always your assumptions....The letter "E" is apparently in 12%.  I think TP4 said spacebar is 16% so even using that....that is 19 million a year assuming you are the fastest typer ever and doing that for 8 hours constantly without any vacation days, holidays, etc..(What a bogus assumption that would be). 

So in the LEAST....being the fastest typer....and all that..that is more than 2.5 years....So at least now admit your 187 days or whatever you were claiming months ago and now, is false and you made those incorrect assumptions...no real shame there..


Offline tp4tissue

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 03 September 2013, 03:53:25 »
I have elaborated on the math that gives me an expected lifetime of 187 days for Cherry MXes, at great length, and holy crap I actually know how to unit test AND measure these things! I mean there's no WAY someone who cares about their keyboards would do silly things like research, RIGHT?

So what about your 187 days? It isn't your math..it was always your assumptions....The letter "E" is apparently in 12%.  I think TP4 said spacebar is 16% so even using that....that is 19 million a year assuming you are the fastest typer ever and doing that for 8 hours constantly without any vacation days, holidays, etc..(What a bogus assumption that would be). 

So in the LEAST....being the fastest typer....and all that..that is more than 2.5 years....So at least now admit your 187 days or whatever you were claiming months ago and now, is false and you made those incorrect assumptions...no real shame there..



it's not even the fastest typer,   the most prolific writer could down 2 boards his WHOLE WORKING LIFE 70 years.

No coders or any other key-users would approach his amount...

Offline Tony

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Re: 50,000,000 Actuations. Really?
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 03 September 2013, 05:49:24 »
it's not even the fastest typer,   the most prolific writer could down 2 boards his WHOLE WORKING LIFE 70 years.
No coders or any other key-users would approach his amount...

Don't worry, you can kill a mech keyboard quickly with orange juice and beer.

Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm