Would you resist?

[tp4tissue]

The Borg?

Given the large difference between their technology level and ours upon the first encounter (TNG, Ep. Q-Who, S02E16)

What exactly did we have to lose by being assimilated..

There's no such thing as "freedom"..  Freedom is only an arbitrary pre-existing state of approximate deliniation.  It is not a pure concept.

Even in the form of "Borg"  while different, we are not - not - free...

And honestly... it seemed like we'd have everything to gain by joining..



Your thoughts.....??

[SpAmRaY]

Resistance is futile!

[tp4tissue]

Resistance is futile!

I think the authors put that in there, to make them "antagonistic" / "bad-guys"

The Borg is well beyond simple concepts such as good or bad..

They can not be described as such, as they are above our understanding of existence.

[Latin00032]

It's like the idea of living in the matrix.

What is so wrong with living in the matrix?

[tp4tissue]

It's like the idea of living in the matrix.

What is so wrong with living in the matrix?

oo... good drop.. that situation is identical.. the machine can only add to us, not take away in the grand scheme.

[rowdy]

We would lose individuality.

[tp4tissue]

We would lose individuality.

Is individuality really that important to you..

It would seem everyone here is spending an ample amount of time convincing each other to conform..

And the immense popularity of the internet also points to the fact that as individuals we do seek to connect and achieve simultaneous consciousness.

So where does that leave "individuality"


Individuality seems like a place holder.. as a concept it's just there because we COULDN'T think together and alike...


If we all joined minds... the individual doesn't disappear, they only cease to exist in present form...

The processing capacity of the brain would still be there and utilized..


The barrier that existed to halt one's consciousness from initiating action before the mind-joining would be the same as it was..

As part of the borg, a single brain's (original) thoughts would be weighed against the rest of the brains in the collective... more efficiently so

whereas in current state, we have to get on the internet and type things out.

[TheSoulhunter]

INB4 Picard or 7of9 reference!

[SpAmRaY]

I hate being told what to do!

[Findecanor]

We would lose sex. Every woman (except the Borg Queen) would have implants that make her look super-ugly. All babies are cloned. No retirement home when you have grown old, or if you are disabled (and the disability can not be made up for with implants) - you are simply scrapped. No nature - all landmass is covered by the Borg Hive. No alcohol. No philosophical discussions. No creativity. No art. No keyboards.

[paicrai]

No more drama!

[tp4tissue]

No more drama!

[Hak Foo]

Frankly, my question was, after assimilating a thousand worlds, they absorbed ZERO marketing talent whatsoever?  A little work on messaging and look and species would line up to join them

[Findecanor]

No more drama!

I'm more into Action/Comedy.

[tp4tissue]

Frankly, my question was, after assimilating a thousand worlds, they absorbed ZERO marketing talent whatsoever?  A little work on messaging and look and species would line up to join them

hahahahaha.... Yea.... exactly... That is the art of creating story arcs my friend...

They have to put in some sort of "mis-communication" to make the BORG an unattractive enemy..

In reality if such a massive intelligence were to exist... they would indeed like you said, have people lining up...


I mean.. dude... people line up for black friday for 10% off....

The BORG is offering  10000000x years of technological research FOR FREE....


All we're giving up really is our lackluster notion of conceptual existence apart from the collective of which is the "rest of the universe"....


I would be first in line to join the BORG...   I mean.. I'm probably second in line even as they are, the emo-odd-fit-black cybernetic protrusions.

[Oobly]

Man, what are you guys smoking? I don't want any of that, thanks.

Individuality and free choice are tantamount to being human, which I'd much rather be than part of a "machine". Unless this whole thread is a joke and I've had a real "swoosh" moment.

Anyway, true innovation and research requires creativity and intuition, which are lost in a "borg" scenario, the only advances come through assimilation of existing data. It's a dead end.

[tp4tissue]

Man, what are you guys smoking? I don't want any of that, thanks.

Individuality and free choice are tantamount to being human, which I'd much rather be than part of a "machine". Unless this whole thread is a joke and I've had a real "swoosh" moment.

Anyway, true innovation and research requires creativity and intuition, which are lost in a "borg" scenario, the only advances come through assimilation of existing data. It's a dead end.

Why would creativity and intuition be lost..

Everything that made you, YOU,  would still be there once you're part of the borg..


You don't cease to be yourself.. you only cease to be a self that is far less connected..


Would you say that because of  the internet, people today are less themselves than 30 years ago?

Certainly not...

Back then we informed each other through other means... books, telephone, usps-letters


The appropriation of resources as human beings into separate smaller bodies is merely a state of being that is most efficient in an environment hindered by physical work against gravity.... 

And because our natural primary energy source is a redox couple (oxygen reaction).. not very powerful


NOW.. the BORG has warp drives.. imagine integration of ourselves with THAT power source..  fictional-dilithium based power probably, pretty much fancy nuclear

Individual bodies would be quite pointless if integration was possible with a HUGE power source..


The borg probably kept the individual bodies for certain tasks. ship maintenance and repair. but ultimately the unification into a LARGER system with a much better powersource than redox, their ship, that is where the money is...

[iri]

lovely fellas,
what the **** are you talking about?

[tp4tissue]

lovely fellas,
what the **** are you talking about?

you don't watch TNG?

[iri]

no, i don't.

[IvanIvanovich]

BORG is stupid. The keeping of biological matter makes no sense, when you could simply absorb the consciousness and place it in a 100% cybernetic android body. With the consciousness also being cloud based so to speak, you also become effectively immortal. Really there is only need to load yourself into an android when only something that needs to be performed in a physical manner is required, such as mechanical repairs. The rest of the time could easily be spent in some kind of 'matrix' like construct.

[tp4tissue]

BORG is stupid. The keeping of biological matter makes no sense, when you could simply absorb the consciousness and place it in a 100% cybernetic android body. With the consciousness also being cloud based so to speak, you also become effectively immortal. Really there is only need to load yourself into an android when only something that needs to be performed in a physical manner is required, such as mechanical repairs. The rest of the time could easily be spent in some kind of 'matrix' like construct.

Sure, I agree...  the BORG is only an "imagining" of what an interconnected super - cybernetic organism would be like...

There are inconsistencies, because it had to be "human enough" such that it could have a place in the TV show..


The large organism would likely not have so much bio-tissue, let along make it humanoid in appearance..

Floating spheres with multiple arms make much more sense..

And eventually given enough complexity.. the Borg would transition into the Energy-cloud type alien...

And beyond that, it would become something akin to the Q-continuum.. merely the will and voice of the universe.

[eth0s]

Well the best argument to resisting assimilation by the Borg is tp4tissue himself.  The collective Borg mind would actually improve his fart-brain inanity.  But everybody else would be robbed of their personality, individuality, character, intelligence, and creativity.  The Borg does not give, they take.  You lose, they win.  The only way to gain a personality by joining the Borg would be if you had no personality to lose in the first place.  In which case you would actually gain some positive personality, because you would able to free-load off of all the other smart, creative and interesting people that have been assimilated before you.

As for the Borg's lack of marketing skills, that is the point of the show.  The collective mind is a muddled mish-mash of the lowest common denominators in human personality and evolution.  You are basically being mixed in with a bunch of tp4's, and you will be the loser in that mix.  It's like mixing 10 grams of caviar with 10,000 kg of feces.  How will that stew taste?  And there is no way to convince people the dish is appetizing, no matter how slick your ad campaign is.

[tp4tissue]

Well the best argument to resisting assimilation by the Borg is tp4tissue himself.  The collective Borg mind would actually improve his fart-brain inanity.  But everybody else would be robbed of their personality, individuality, character, intelligence, and creativity.  The Borg does not give, they take.  You lose, they win.  The only way to gain a personality by joining the Borg would be if you had no personality to lose in the first place.  In which case you would actually gain some positive personality, because you would able to free-load off of all the other smart, creative and interesting people that have been assimilated before you.

As for the Borg's lack of marketing skills, that is the point of the show.  The collective mind is a muddled mish-mash of the lowest common denominators in human personality and evolution.  You are basically being mixed in with a bunch of tp4's, and you will be the loser in that mix.  It's like mixing 10 grams of caviar with 10,000 kg of feces.  How will that stew taste?  And there is no way to convince people the dish is appetizing, no matter how slick your ad campaign is.

Hahaha.....

Good point... My mind is particularly powerful.. and my perfect logic would likely be more closely integrated with the Borg's low-level code.

If I were to be early in assimilation.. when it comes your turn, ethos, I'd probably overpower your boring mind, and relegate your brain process to toilet duty, which may even be above what you're capable of..



Come @ me br0..



Realize.. This is a TP4 thread.. you can not win... winning is irrelevant.. resistance is futile..

[YoungMichael88]

It's not about true freedom. It's about what we call "freedom" maybe free will is the better word. It's easy to think that if you were to assimilated, what we know of as "freedom" today would be irrelevant. But what I know today is precisely what would make me NOT want to assimilate. Regardless of what would happen after assimilation, the question is would I resist  NOW. the answer is Yes, of course.

[tp4tissue]

It's not about true freedom. It's about what we call "freedom" maybe free will is the better word. It's easy to think that if you were to assimilated, what we know of as "freedom" today would be irrelevant. But what I know today is precisely what would make me NOT want to assimilate. Regardless of what would happen after assimilation, the question is would I resist  NOW. the answer is Yes, of course.

hm... well the borg is fictional... 

so, I'm not sure if Now or Later makes a difference here..

Would you list the things you "think" you'd miss?

[kolonelkadat]

I wouldnt be assimilated simply on the grounds that they dont ever do anything outside of exist. If you ever see a borg theres like a 100% chance that it will be standing somewhere in a vaguely menacing manner.

You never see the borg play sports, party, rip *****in guitar solos, bang chicks, do some awesome space gymkhana, or even just chill.

Its just this. Just sorta standing around.

[tp4tissue]

I wouldnt be assimilated simply on the grounds that they dont ever do anything outside of exist. If you ever see a borg theres like a 100% chance that it will be standing somewhere in a vaguely menacing manner.

You never see the borg play sports, party, rip *****in guitar solos, bang chicks, do some awesome space gymkhana, or even just chill.

Its just this.

Show Image

Just sorta standing around.

I like that... That's pretty much what I do... Witness to existence...  Isn't that what everyone does?...

 

Let's look at the list of things you want to do, that the Borg does not do..

Sports:

To strengthen the body, instill competition..
--Uses,  mating selection, impress *****z

Borg's take:  they do not mate, selection is a perfectly logically derived process.

Party:

Social engagement
--Uses, the "event" of mating selection
----Undertakings,  impress *****z

Borg's take: no impress *****z necessary, all genetic data is known, selection based logically on required specs/ demand of task..

Gymkhana (Drift inspired, demonstrative car sport):

To improve skills and interest in motor sport
-- To possibly push forward technological research in areas of transport
---- Impress *****z with impressive cars

Borg's take:  Irrelevant, they have centralized omni-intranet that connects all citizenry. personal travel is not required.. they have no need for cars.
....................Technological research and integration is done through assimilation and rearrangement of existing knowledge..
....................Experimental research must also exist.. but probably not shown in the tv-show.. as the Borg mind is complex enough to emulate a portion of reality and simulate internally the necessary research that they have current use for. Verification, if humans have holodecks that can do this,, I'm sure the Borg can do it..

[eth0s]

Well the best argument to resisting assimilation by the Borg is tp4tissue himself.  The collective Borg mind would actually improve his fart-brain inanity.  But everybody else would be robbed of their personality, individuality, character, intelligence, and creativity.  The Borg does not give, they take.  You lose, they win.  The only way to gain a personality by joining the Borg would be if you had no personality to lose in the first place.  In which case you would actually gain some positive personality, because you would able to free-load off of all the other smart, creative and interesting people that have been assimilated before you.

As for the Borg's lack of marketing skills, that is the point of the show.  The collective mind is a muddled mish-mash of the lowest common denominators in human personality and evolution.  You are basically being mixed in with a bunch of tp4's, and you will be the loser in that mix.  It's like mixing 10 grams of caviar with 10,000 kg of feces.  How will that stew taste?  And there is no way to convince people the dish is appetizing, no matter how slick your ad campaign is.

Hahaha.....

Good point... My mind is particularly powerful.. and my perfect logic would likely be more closely integrated with the Borg's low-level code.

If I were to be early in assimilation.. when it comes your turn, ethos, I'd probably overpower your boring mind, and relegate your brain process to toilet duty, which may even be above what you're capable of..

Show Image

Come @ me br0..

Show Image

Realize.. This is a TP4 thread.. you can not win... winning is irrelevant.. resistance is futile..

lol.  Good one.  You may be starting to evolve tp4.

[tp4tissue]

Well the best argument to resisting assimilation by the Borg is tp4tissue himself.  The collective Borg mind would actually improve his fart-brain inanity.  But everybody else would be robbed of their personality, individuality, character, intelligence, and creativity.  The Borg does not give, they take.  You lose, they win.  The only way to gain a personality by joining the Borg would be if you had no personality to lose in the first place.  In which case you would actually gain some positive personality, because you would able to free-load off of all the other smart, creative and interesting people that have been assimilated before you.

As for the Borg's lack of marketing skills, that is the point of the show.  The collective mind is a muddled mish-mash of the lowest common denominators in human personality and evolution.  You are basically being mixed in with a bunch of tp4's, and you will be the loser in that mix.  It's like mixing 10 grams of caviar with 10,000 kg of feces.  How will that stew taste?  And there is no way to convince people the dish is appetizing, no matter how slick your ad campaign is.

Hahaha.....

Good point... My mind is particularly powerful.. and my perfect logic would likely be more closely integrated with the Borg's low-level code.

If I were to be early in assimilation.. when it comes your turn, ethos, I'd probably overpower your boring mind, and relegate your brain process to toilet duty, which may even be above what you're capable of..

Show Image

Come @ me br0..

Show Image

Realize.. This is a TP4 thread.. you can not win... winning is irrelevant.. resistance is futile..

lol.  Good one.  You may be starting to evolve tp4.

I am indeed good.

[IvanIvanovich]

See... you already came up with a better Star Trek 'race' alternative than the BORG... Q. Now I would get on board with Q because being omnipotent is way more baller. As a Q, I will simply erase your BORG out of existence with my will alone.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

This thread is illogical. The real truth here is that if something similar to the BORG actually existed, every single one of us would resist them, despite what you currently think you would do.

In reality, I would speculate that, if Earth was assimilated by the BORG, nearly 25% of the inhabitants would **** their pants out of fear before being assimilated.

[YoungMichael88]

See... you already came up with a better Star Trek 'race' alternative than the BORG... Q. Now I would get on board with Q because being omnipotent is way more baller. As a Q, I will simply erase your BORG out of existence with my will alone.

Exactly! But there are rules to being Q. We all know what happens when you break the rules. You get sucked up into a "cyclone"! Sure, you could get a handsome bearded man to fall madly in love with you but then Q comes after you too! And the responsibility of deciding what race deserves to exist is just crazy heavy! I think the pros outweigh the cons tho. I would definitely go Q now that I think about it.

[tp4tissue]

See... you already came up with a better Star Trek 'race' alternative than the BORG... Q. Now I would get on board with Q because being omnipotent is way more baller. As a Q, I will simply erase your BORG out of existence with my will alone.

Exactly! But there are rules to being Q. We all know what happens when you break the rules. You get sucked up into a "cyclone"! Sure, you could get a handsome bearded man to fall madly in love with you but then Q comes after you too! And the responsibility of deciding what race deserves to exist is just crazy heavy! I think the pros outweigh the cons tho. I would definitely go Q now that I think about it.

The Q is an illogical progression beyond Borg.. It is FAR too human, and not rational...

That isn't inherently bad.. but where the Q does not make sense, is that given that much power, they would NOT behave the way they do.. 

The Q continuum in the TNG story, is merely a HUMAN given omnipotence..

This is illogical because a mere human would never be given or achieve so much omnipotent power, because the path to developing such powers would require a stepping stone such as the BORG...

And I think you are too quick to accept joining the Q continuum as you are now...

The powers that they possess seem great AS a human.. but once you have it, if your mind remains merely human without the great intellect of a GOD, to put those powers to use, the intellect to wield..

The power would merely feel like a cheat code...

So, I suppose your assumption is more partly that you would join the Q-continuum and retain your humanity..

that's possible, but then you wouldn't bother to enact that portion of yourself, because it is infinitesimal compared to the Intellect that would come "with the q-continuum"

[YoungMichael88]

See... you already came up with a better Star Trek 'race' alternative than the BORG... Q. Now I would get on board with Q because being omnipotent is way more baller. As a Q, I will simply erase your BORG out of existence with my will alone.

Exactly! But there are rules to being Q. We all know what happens when you break the rules. You get sucked up into a "cyclone"! Sure, you could get a handsome bearded man to fall madly in love with you but then Q comes after you too! And the responsibility of deciding what race deserves to exist is just crazy heavy! I think the pros outweigh the cons tho. I would definitely go Q now that I think about it.

The Q is an illogical progression beyond Borg.. It is FAR too human, and not rational...

That isn't inherently bad.. but where the Q does not make sense, is that given that much power, they would NOT behave the way they do.. 

The Q continuum in the TNG story, is merely a HUMAN given omnipotence..

This is illogical because a mere human would never be given or achieve so much omnipotent power, because the path to developing such powers would require a stepping stone such as the BORG...

And I think you are too quick to accept joining the Q continuum as you are now...

The powers that they possess seem great AS a human.. but once you have it, if your mind remains merely human without the great intellect of a GOD, to put those powers to use, the intellect to wield..

The power would merely feel like a cheat code...

So, I suppose your assumption is more partly that you would join the Q-continuum and retain your humanity..

that's possible, but then you wouldn't bother to enact that portion of yourself, because it is infinitesimal compared to the Intellect that would come "with the q-continuum"

You see, I never said I would become Q and be good at it. I would most definitely use the powers for my own personal gain eventually and be banished from the continuum for sure. That part is inevitable. But even a few days or a years as Q would be worth it to me in this hypothetical. It's probably the ultimate rush/high possible and one hell of a way to go. Consider the question "would you take a trip to space if you knew you would die out there?". I've heard this or similar questions asked many times and so many people answer "yes, absolutely" with no hesitation. Any trips to mars are one way only and the volunteer list is most likely endless. This Q hypothetical is way more appealing than that and the fact that they do have human qualities is great. That's why Q was so fascinated with Picard I think. So yea I definitely would. To me, the Borg way of life is definitely not a progressive step for humanity. At least the majority. It is most certainly not in human nature to strive for that. Unless of course you have a terrible lonely life as is with no real use for individuality or free will. I guess if you're the type of person who spends every waking hour on the Internet seeking information then the Borg is the right life for you.