No life lost eh ?

[tp4tissue]

So.. the rocket blew up..

$200,000,000

what does that mean...

lets take a 10-15 year experience engineer, making ~$120,000 per year.   that is $57 per hour..

200,000,000/ 57  = 3,508,771 working hours..  if a person's life is 33% (8 hours) valuable from age 22 to 65 retirement. (realistically it's less)

that person generates 89,440 valuable units


This accident killed 40 engineers..


Now, since it's NOT all engineers working on the rocket...   This accidents essentially Killed anywhere from 150 to 300 people..


See how they downplay these things, and say.. quote: "all we lost was hardware.." NO, you irresponsible corporate *******..

You killed 150 to 300 people..

[JPG]

I missed something?

[trizkut]

tp4's trying to reduce a human life down to a single number.

NASA antares rocket blew up

[tp4tissue]

I missed something?

[xxghostxx]

that's the corporate world for you they only see dollar signs not life lost...

[tp4tissue]

that's the corporate world for you they only see dollar signs not life lost...

Dollar signs is a convenient way of justifying life lost..  sigh.............

[Eszett]

Good work NASA-engineers! I see similarities to a fire-cracker on new years eve: expensive, useless(*), but shows an impressive bang.
(*) since humanity has big problems down here on earth to get financed. For example think about the few million dollars to prevent Ebola, and compare this with the hundreds of millions volleyed by the NASA for vague and non-seizable benefits. There is a gross disproportion. Call it unsoundness of mind.

[tp4tissue]

Good work NASA-engineers! I see similarities to a fire-cracker on new years eve: expensive, useless(*), but shows an impressive bang.
(*) since humanity has big problems down here on earth to get financed.

i don't have an issue with people dieing... 

It's just not right that when people die, they pan it and say no life lost....

[trizkut]

The government spent 500 million on a website that started crumpling at 1000-2000 concurrent users, and you're worried about this being a giant waste of money? 

[Eszett]

@tp4issue I don’t follow your definition of “life” as “working hours”. What you do is a distortion of facts. The fact, that “life” doesn’t equal “working hours”.

[FreeCopy]

NASA antares rocket blew up

Good work NASA-engineers! I see similarities to a fire-cracker on new years eve: expensive, useless(*), but shows an impressive bang.
(*) since humanity has big problems down here on earth to get financed. For example think about the few million dollars to prevent Ebola, and compare this with the hundreds of millions volleyed by the NASA for vague and non-seizable benefits. There is a gross disproportion. Call it unsoundness of mind.

I thought NASA was just the contractor and provided the launch facility while Orbital Sciences Corporation actually designed and built the rocket.

[Eszett]

I thought NASA was just the contractor and provided the launch facility while Orbital Sciences Corporation actually designed and built the rocket.

Accepted. Maybe it was a wrong step to outsource this process?

[tp4tissue]

@tp4issue I don’t follow your definition of “life” as “working hours”. What you do is a distortion of facts. The fact, that “life” doesn’t equal “working hours”.

No.. I'm equating how much LIFE of Humans is required to stack up to 200 million ...

[HoffmanMyster]

I missed something?

Context is a good thing.

[dorkvader]

So.. the rocket blew up..

$200,000,000

what does that mean...

lets take a 10-15 year experience engineer, making ~$120,000 per year.   that is $57 per hour..

200,000,000/ 57  = 3,508,771 working hours..  if a person's life is 33% (8 hours) valuable from age 22 to 65 retirement. (realistically it's less)

that person generates 89,440 valuable units


This accident killed 40 engineers..

interesting take but I think there's a flaw in your logic.

You see the work the engineers put into it is not lost. They could make another one if they wanted. Skilled labor (of people making / machining the thing) always goes for cheaper prices than skilled ideas, so they could just make another one from the plans. The real trouble with the engineering of it is figuring out all teh little details and things. If they just figure out what went wrong here and fix it then they'll still be ahead: all that work was not lost. The experience they have and the specifics with this rocket will be applied to future builds.

So sure: lots of efficiency is gone, but it's certainly not a total loss.

[tp4tissue]

So.. the rocket blew up..

$200,000,000

what does that mean...

lets take a 10-15 year experience engineer, making ~$120,000 per year.   that is $57 per hour..

200,000,000/ 57  = 3,508,771 working hours..  if a person's life is 33% (8 hours) valuable from age 22 to 65 retirement. (realistically it's less)

that person generates 89,440 valuable units


This accident killed 40 engineers..

interesting take but I think there's a flaw in your logic.

You see the work the engineers put into it is not lost. They could make another one if they wanted. Skilled labor (of people making / machining the thing) always goes for cheaper prices than skilled ideas, so they could just make another one from the plans. The real trouble with the engineering of it is figuring out all teh little details and things. If they just figure out what went wrong here and fix it then they'll still be ahead: all that work was not lost. The experience they have and the specifics with this rocket will be applied to future builds.

So sure: lots of efficiency is gone, but it's certainly not a total loss.

I am by no means saying my take is a super accurate model..

but due to the Massive Size involved..   This accident indeed killed Many People..

[dorkvader]

of course, but by a similar token, people not living up to their potential is also "killing".

Like, I could be a brilliant engineer, but until I get a degree no-one is going to hire me. Every year I spend working part time in nowhere retail jobs is a year I've "died".

[Melvang]

And this is why you shouldn't always go with the lowest bidder.  Granted I have no idea if it was or not, but works as an example of what not to do.

[dorkvader]

And this is why you shouldn't always go with the lowest bidder.  Granted I have no idea if it was or not, but works as an example of what not to do.

of course you can't always go with the highest bidder either. Do your homework before buying anything expensive or important folks. (or pay someone else to do your homework for you. No excuses!)

[tp4tissue]

of course, but by a similar token, people not living up to their potential is also "killing".

Like, I could be a brilliant engineer, but until I get a degree no-one is going to hire me. Every year I spend working part time in nowhere retail jobs is a year I've "died".

Mmm.. sure.. well..  I was looking at the really big number,  and it's big enough that I could say "people died"..

On an individual level relative to One-self, you have the liberty to decide whatever value you'd like to assign..

[tp4tissue]

And this is why you shouldn't always go with the lowest bidder.  Granted I have no idea if it was or not, but works as an example of what not to do.

of course you can't always go with the highest bidder either. Do your homework before buying anything expensive or important folks. (or pay someone else to do your homework for you. No excuses!)

the russians are saying it's not their fault, as the usa space company bought their original rocket engines, and modified it in the US to build the Antares AJ engines..

[tbc]

where did that $200M number come from?

surely that includes the research time and not just the physical materials correct?


ps, someone wanna calculate how many people have died on gh?

[user 18]

I think the most important point in this thread so far is dorkvader's -- the time spent wasn't completely wasted, a lot of the work here could definitely have other uses. Even if those uses aren't apparent yet, the work that went into this particular item could be a valuable foundation for future work.

I also take issue with your logic -- is everyone over 65 or under 22 dead? Life isn't a dollar amount. There's so much more to living than just cash.

[Flamingchook]

And this is why you shouldn't always go with the lowest bidder.  Granted I have no idea if it was or not, but works as an example of what not to do.

NASA is actually paying Space X less money to do more resupply missions than Orbital Sciences who's rocket just exploded.

Space X: 1.6 Billion for 12 resupply missions

Orbital Sciences: 1.9 Billion for 9 resupply missions.

[Eszett]

I still don’t follow the “lifetime-is-lost-argument”. You must see, the engineeres who built the rocket got paid, and made their living of it. Did they lose something? So far not, and if they keep their job they will be fine in future too! NASA has lost the product. And this falls under risk management. Maybe it is even statistically predictable, that on 100 rocket launches one will fail. I have to calculate with risk and engage insurances for such cases. All astronauts know that to some percentage they risk their _real life_ when going to the orbit. And they even take this threat into calculation.

And there is this phenomen of human mis-perception: we react on sudden accidents with “OMG”, and explosions are a typical example for that. But the creeping and subtle problems which lead into a catatrophe of much more impact, no one notices. Think of the explosion of Fukushima, everyone got like “OMG”, but the creeping pollution (=> creeping cancer) continuating on every day after the event, which is alot more deadly, no one seems to notice with the same amount of “OMG”.