Does anybody prefer Cherry MX Reds or Blacks for typing?

[jcoffin1981]

I own a cherry MX 3.0 board with brown switches.  I am very pleased with it, but would prefer a smaller form factor and want to experiment with other switches.  I purchased the WASD 6 type Cherry tester.  I am slow to make decisions but knew I hated the click switches after 1 key press.  The clear is interesting because there is more feedback, and the increase in resistance at the bottom cushions the key press.

I could see how people like the red and black for gaming, but imagined that it would be awkward for typing.  But then I tried these with two O-rings.  The throw is considerably shorter, so the tactile feedback to only partially depress the switch becomes less important.  Anyone who says that the Clear MX has poor feedback is crazy.  It has a very distinct bump which is what I thought I wanted... untill trying the Red and Black.  The tactile bump actually jars my fingertips, and I think I prefer the linear switch.  Does anyone who uses one as their daily driver have any comments or feedback?

[radish]

Linear is my go to switch for everything. Next is clear. But then again I despise topre. So take what you want from it and keep in mind that its a personal choice. Choose what you gravitate towards... Not what's popular. You'd be doing your self a favor I think.

[jcoffin1981]

I couldn't agree more, as keyboard preference is extremely subjective.  For every opinion I agree with there are 3 that I think are out in left field.  However, pressing a single key is very different than typing on a full keyboard for an hour.  I also noticed that the single test keys feels different than typing on the full board.  Perhaps all the plastic in the frame of the board dulls the feedback.  The bump on the Brown tester feels pretty distinct, while it is barely tacitile on the keyboard.

Any feedback from somebody who has used one of these switches extensively would be very helpful in making a decision.
I do know that
-I prefer a lighter switch
-I like little to no tactile feedback
-I prefer a shorter keystroke

[Dongulator]

I type on reds all day at work,  I definitely prefer them.  You might want to but a switch tester and test the reds and blacks.

[suicidal_orange]

Every press of a red switch results in bottoming out and while o-rings do improve this it's still not a great feeling.

If you want short keystroke you should look into the Jailhouse mod for blue switches (this method worked for me) - they do have a little bump but they sound like exactly what you're looking for

[zars15]

Recently switched from full mx brown board, to 60% gateron blacks(heard good things about them, wanted to try them). I had to get used to it a bit, but it's very nice for typing. Reds could be questionable to type on, but blacks work without issues.

I had to swap my enter and backspace key to brown switch, as I noticed great strain to my hand/fingers. I also placed brown switch under spacebar, as I wanted lighter, more distinct feeling on writing spaces.

I use it as daily driver and I'm a programmer, so quite a lot of typing goes on the blacks. It's definitely worth trying, if you seem to prefer them over tactile switches. Mx browns feels like awkward mix of linear and tactile switch to me now.

[rowdy]

I prefer clicky switches (like the buckling springs I am caressing at the moment), but due to complaints at work I had to switch to something lighter, so MX blacks for now.

I don't mind blacks, they are my favourite linear switch.

I have a keyboard with MX clears on the way - maybe that will become a new favourite.

[Jumpy]

My board is a Leopold FC660M with reds. When I finally took the plunge and installed o-rings, I was in heaven. I feel like I'm typing on butter.

I like how clears feel but I found that I wasn't actuating twice when I'd double tap a key. It got annoying constantly editing my message, but I think that just comes with learning a new switch.

Hope you find what you're looking for!

[Jokrik]

I prefer clicky switches (like the buckling springs I am caressing at the moment), but due to complaints at work I had to switch to something lighter, so MX blacks for now.

I don't mind blacks, they are my favourite linear switch.

I have a keyboard with MX clears on the way - maybe that will become a new favourite.

Ditto!!
Blacks especially vintage blacks are my favourite though I still prefer clicky stuff

If you like it heavy, go blacks else take red

[radish]

A huge factor for me is stability of the switch. More so then the actual feel of the switch. I find that tactile switches when not tuned get scratchy and lock up because of friction. Linear tend to do that much less. The reds are good but tend to wobble more then Black's. Gaterons despite being smooth wobble the most in my experience. The soft plastic I think contributes to the flex I feel it most when pressing the wide keys. Shift enter backspace ect.

I use landing pads because I like the travel distance long and they provide sound damping while reducing the travel distance by 1mm. 

Currently I use clear tops from gateron spirt gold springs 55g vintage black stems with a bit of krytox grease. It's magic for my fingers.

[dante]

For linear switch typing:

1st) MX Gray
2nd) Gateron Black

I also want to try Green Linear Alps w/ springs from Black Alps

[Shaussman]

Personally I can't stand reds for any use but blacks are all right. I'm going to look into getting/building a small board with blacks at some point.

[Den441]

I think reds are for those who game more than type. My fingers never feel any fatigue with them. Blacks on the other hand can be used comfortably for both gaming and typing. I sometimes feel a little fatigue with blacks when I switch to them, but it goes away after a few days. I also believe that plate mounted blacks are more comfortable for typing than PCB mounted blacks.

[saturnotaku]

Linear is not my go-to for anything, but I don't mind using them for typing. The Razer/Kailh "stealth" switch is supposed to be like a Cherry MX brown, but its tactile bump is less noticeable than even that switch, so it feels more linear.

Among Cherry MX varieties, I prefer reds over blacks, browns over clears, and, oddly, greens over blues.

[jcoffin1981]

It's amazing how much opinions vary.  I think I'm just going to pull the trigger on an MX red keyboard.  However, I first want to try the Matias Linear switch.  I have heard a lot of people complain that MX Reds are "scratchy."  I feel it too and it's slightly annoying.  I'm not sure if it's friction or the compression of the spring.  It feels almost like a mattress coil spring going  "eeehhh errrr, eeehhh errr, eeehhh errr."  But without the sound. 

The specs on the Matias website list the point of actuation at 35 grams of force.  However, the bottom out point is also 35g.  I thought a linear switch on a force curve increases at a constant, not a flat line?   I'd like to just say screw it and get the KBP with Matias Linear switches, but this seems a little foreign to me.

[Melvang]

The scratchiness I feel is from old molds that haven't been replaced in the proper timeframe, and/or not maintained properly.

Either way, they do get better with time, just don't lube then until they are smooth to your liking.

But as far as the question of the title, the only time I like linears is with clear springs.

[rowdy]

It's amazing how much opinions vary.  I think I'm just going to pull the trigger on an MX red keyboard.  However, I first want to try the Matias Linear switch.  I have heard a lot of people complain that MX Reds are "scratchy."  I feel it too and it's slightly annoying.  I'm not sure if it's friction or the compression of the spring.  It feels almost like a mattress coil spring going  "eeehhh errrr, eeehhh errr, eeehhh errr."  But without the sound. 

The specs on the Matias website list the point of actuation at 35 grams of force.  However, the bottom out point is also 35g.  I thought a linear switch on a force curve increases at a constant, not a flat line?   I'd like to just say screw it and get the KBP with Matias Linear switches, but this seems a little foreign to me.

There are so many opinions because there are so many people

I can't say reds are scratchy - they are too light for me to tell.

But I have three keyboards with MX blacks.  A really old terminal board that is as smooth as, but as far as I can tell has "modern" blacks, not vintage blacks.  A QFR that is buttery smooth to type on.  And a Ducky Shine 3 that could very well be described as scratchy.  It is the one that I liked typing on the least, but I took it to work and persevered, and either I'm getting used to it or it is breaking in somewhat.

[Oobly]

Every press of a red switch results in bottoming out and while o-rings do improve this it's still not a great feeling.

If you want short keystroke you should look into the Jailhouse mod for blue switches (this method worked for me) - they do have a little bump but they sound like exactly what you're looking for

+1. You can also add thick orings or do a trampoline mod to reduce the travel after actuation. The balls from IMSTO would probably reduce the stroke on Blues around 1mm, so you'd have 3mm travel instead of 4.

[jcoffin1981]

Yes, I'm going to get some form of a red or linear switch.  I don't know why all keys are made with such a long keystroke.  If you are a gamer, typist, enthusiast, whatever, I'm sure every one would like a shorter stroke.  Why not make them 2.5mm keystroke distance, similar to a laptop keyboard? (I will use the O-rings) I always type faster on a laptop.

I'm looking at compact red boards, but before I make a decision I'd like to rule out a Matias quiet linear keyboard.  I think they are so uncommon that nobody knows.  I do like keys that increase in resistance, but if these do no do that than they are not for me.

[Melvang]

Yes, I'm going to get some form of a red or linear switch.  I don't know why all keys are made with such a long keystroke.  If you are a gamer, typist, enthusiast, whatever, I'm sure every one would like a shorter stroke.  Why not make them 2.5mm keystroke distance, similar to a laptop keyboard? (I will use the O-rings) I always type faster on a laptop.

I'm looking at compact red boards, but before I make a decision I'd like to rule out a Matias quiet linear keyboard.  I think they are so uncommon that nobody knows.  I do like keys that increase in resistance, but if these do no do that than they are not for me.

The reason for the longer keystroke, is to allow some distance to decelerate your fingers and not bottom out since activation is 2mm into the travel.  By typing without bottoming out, you drastically reduce your possibility of developing RSI.  I personally loath typing on anything with less keystroke than Cherry or Alps.

[henz]

I try and try and try some more to like linear swtiches, i guess i have been using blacks too much in the past, anything is better than blacks and reds in my opinion.

[Sencha]

Been typing on reds for about 4 years now. Prefer them to browns. Blacks are good as well but too heavy for me.

[neverused]

Reds are too light for anything other than a ten key for me. I prefer to type on mx blacks or jailhouse blues with black springs.

[BrewCaps]

Just say Topre.

[pr0ximity]

Blacks are life.

[jcoffin1981]

Yes, I'm going to get some form of a red or linear switch.  I don't know why all keys are made with such a long keystroke.  If you are a gamer, typist, enthusiast, whatever, I'm sure every one would like a shorter stroke.  Why not make them 2.5mm keystroke distance, similar to a laptop keyboard? (I will use the O-rings) I always type faster on a laptop.

I'm looking at compact red boards, but before I make a decision I'd like to rule out a Matias quiet linear keyboard.  I think they are so uncommon that nobody knows.  I do like keys that increase in resistance, but if these do no do that than they are not for me.

The reason for the longer keystroke, is to allow some distance to decelerate your fingers and not bottom out since activation is 2mm into the travel.  By typing without bottoming out, you drastically reduce your possibility of developing RSI.  I personally loath typing on anything with less keystroke than Cherry or Alps.

This makes perfect sense.  After a month I have adjusted to browns and rarely bottom out.  I would hate to spend $100-&150 or more and find that I like my original board better.  But I know that there are people on here who have purchased a dozen boards until they found one they truly like.  Maybe I'll buy both (brown and red) and return one, lol.  Or just keep them both.

[radish]

Yes, I'm going to get some form of a red or linear switch.  I don't know why all keys are made with such a long keystroke.  If you are a gamer, typist, enthusiast, whatever, I'm sure every one would like a shorter stroke.  Why not make them 2.5mm keystroke distance, similar to a laptop keyboard? (I will use the O-rings) I always type faster on a laptop.

I'm looking at compact red boards, but before I make a decision I'd like to rule out a Matias quiet linear keyboard.  I think they are so uncommon that nobody knows.  I do like keys that increase in resistance, but if these do no do that than they are not for me.

The reason for the longer keystroke, is to allow some distance to decelerate your fingers and not bottom out since activation is 2mm into the travel.  By typing without bottoming out, you drastically reduce your possibility of developing RSI.  I personally loath typing on anything with less keystroke than Cherry or Alps.

This makes perfect sense.  After a month I have adjusted to browns and rarely bottom out.  I would hate to spend $100-&150 or more and find that I like my original board better.  But I know that there are people on here who have purchased a dozen boards until they found one they truly like.  Maybe I'll buy both (brown and red) and return one, lol.  Or just keep them both.

haha thats the sprit!

[njbair]

I have a Cherry G80-1800 with MX Blacks and I've really tried to get used to them. But they're just not for me. I've got a Varmilo TKL coming with Gateron blacks, I'll see if I like those better. If not I might replace them with Zealios since it's a floating-keys style board that would show off the switches quite nicely, and I know I'll like the way Zealios feel.

[tp4tissue]

I got 1 blue, and 1 "ghetto black" which is red..

[Wilkie]

Have been using a KUL ES-87 with MX Blacks exclusively for 9 months, enjoying the typing.  Selected it after trying a switch tester intermittently for a few weeks.  I had expected to prefer Clears, but found I really like the linear feeling.  Now curious about linear Greys (switch tester unfortunately only had a tactile Grey).  For what it's worth, I'm a touch typist who learned on SMK clicky switches.

[tp4tissue]

it's really hard to type fast on blacks..  because you have to have heavy hands. Otherwise there's a bit of wrist stiffness..

[krbuck]

No longer. I switched from red to brown. Its just the right amount of feedback without being too heavy for me. I think they are fine for gaming, but at least for me I need something with a little more feedback for typing which is 95% of what I do.

Its all so subjective anyway.

[KHAANNN]

Before my last keyboard builds, I was itching for some linears and clickies to go with tactile's, I decided to only go for clicky switches, with the same layout, compared to tactile switches, I eliminated clicky switches pretty easily (I can't even use the clicky keyboard for 10 minutes without getting a headache, and this is a modded/pingless keyboard, even in this purified state the clicky switches aren't bearable)

Now, before my next keyboard builds, I'm itching for some linears, so I'm planning a tactile/linear duo this time. I'm 90% sure I will eliminate linears the same way and stick to tactile's with much more confidence

For a heavy typist like me, tactile's become linear-like with a better sound characteristic and with strong springs, their return is also pretty swift, so I might just not screw myself and stick to tactile's, yet I can't seem to shake the desire to give linears one more chance

Spring/weight choice is also pretty challenging, I know that Red's are extremely weak, I'm going to use Linear Grey's and custom springs, Linear Grey's themselves seem a bit too heavy, especially for pinkies

I guess MX Blacks could be nice for typing, heavy tactile's are great for typing as you can't mis-click/activate easily, Red's are bad for typing as even the briefest mis-touch activates them, so I'm guessing MX Black enthusiasts are onto something

Anyway, I'm mostly babbling, I should just build a keyboard and experience it first hand

[jamster]

I have a board with PCB mounted blacks. Used it for three weeks before deciding never to use blacks again- the keys just feel too high resistance and mushy at the same time, so I kept making typing errors.

I had bought the board for an easy mod path to ergo clears anyway, so no great loss. I'm just waiting for Zeal's purple switches to come out so I can swap them in.

[s0ckpupp3t]

My current setup: Leopold FC750R with MX red switches and red o-rings.

My prior boards: CM Storm QFR Brown, Leopold FC660C, Realforce 87U (All-45g).

I much prefer my current keyboard over the prior ones.

I bottom out my keystrokes and the combination of FC750R's built in sound dampening and the o-rings make for a satisfying "thock" when bottoming out that sounds and feels very similar to a Topre and nothing like the typical "clack" of a MX board.

The tactility of the MX browns always felt useless since they just felt scratchy given my bottoming out typing style. 

After using the Topre boards for a while I realized that I didn't like being one with the cup rubber and having initial resistance at the top of the actuation following by a collapse until hitting the bottom.  I prefer having linear resistance all the way to the bottom of the stoke. 

No complaints about the lightness of the MX red switch either.  Heavier spring weights fatigue my fingers given that most of my work involves extended typing.  Also, although my fingers rest on the keys, 90% of my resting weight is on the wrist pad rather than my fingers so I've never had a false key press as a result.

[rowdy]

I'm enjoying MX clears at the moment - I have strayed form the path of linear goodness to a landscape fraught with tactility at every turn!

[KHAANNN]

I'm enjoying MX clears at the moment - I have strayed form the path of linear goodness to a landscape fraught with tactility at every turn!

Does it feel like you could use linear/tactile's interchangeably

I was considering linears+tactile's interchangeably, but it doesn't seem linears would provide much

I guess I just want to put my linear grey stems at use and just looking for some excuse

[E3E]

Hmm. I actually like linears quite a bit. To me, it's whatever. I use 62g "vintage" ergo clears a lot for typing on my portable set up, but for my main set up at my desk, I use vintage (all large logo) lubed blacks with 62g springs. Linear is fun for typing though because of how smooth and cushiony they are. I say this after experience with Alps, which is hard to compare to Cherry. Alps almost feels like a free fall to me. Lubed vintage Cherry linears feel like... Sliding down a slide that's been slathered with butter.

[rowdy]

I'm enjoying MX clears at the moment - I have strayed form the path of linear goodness to a landscape fraught with tactility at every turn!

Does it feel like you could use linear/tactile's interchangeably

I was considering linears+tactile's interchangeably, but it doesn't seem linears would provide much

I guess I just want to put my linear grey stems at use and just looking for some excuse

I do - I'm using MX blacks all day at work and currently MX clears at night and on the weekends at home.

Although I'm planning on taking this CODE into work at some stage and using it there, and probably reverting to HHKB and/or SSK at home.

[ComradeSniper]

I think linears are fine for typing. Lubing makes them much nicer all around though, I highly recommend it.

[jerue]

My Data 911 has blacks. It's great for typing even with the rubber-dome mat removed. I could live with Blacks on a daily basis, even if they aren't my favorite switch.

Reds...poor MX Reds. I really need to give these switches a chance, good thing my NKPC tester has shipped. I need more than 5 minutes with them before I can truthfully declare them my least favorite switch ever.

[pr0ximity]

I have a board with PCB mounted blacks. Used it for three weeks before deciding never to use blacks again- the keys just feel too high resistance and mushy at the same time, so I kept making typing errors.

I had bought the board for an easy mod path to ergo clears anyway, so no great loss. I'm just waiting for Zeal's purple switches to come out so I can swap them in.

You really need linears to be mounted on a stiff plate for the full effect. PCB mount I can imagine would be a bit mushy. From what I understand mounts with a bit of give (PCB or acrylic plate mount) feel much better for tactile MX switches.

[E3E]

I have a board with PCB mounted blacks. Used it for three weeks before deciding never to use blacks again- the keys just feel too high resistance and mushy at the same time, so I kept making typing errors.

I had bought the board for an easy mod path to ergo clears anyway, so no great loss. I'm just waiting for Zeal's purple switches to come out so I can swap them in.

You really need linears to be mounted on a stiff plate for the full effect. PCB mount I can imagine would be a bit mushy. From what I understand mounts with a bit of give (PCB or acrylic plate mount) feel much better for tactile MX switches.

Yeah, I heard about this! As fate would have it, the board I use my Ergo Clears on has no plate, and the board I use vintage blacks on has a stainless steel plate. I started with the Ergos on no plate (after transfering out the original linears [tis a Rapoo KX]) which have a really gentle feel in terms of bottoming out. When I moved onto the blacks on an SS plate, the typing feel was a little jarring at first because of the firmness, but I can agree that there is something satisfying about typing with linears over a solid plate. Plateless tactiles seem to give a more bouncy feel which just amplifies/isolates the tactility imo. My Duck Lightpad has clears on a SS plate and it is admittedly less enjoyable

[ideus]

I used them for more than a year with my Poker X, and they feel just great, the sound is also very nice, and they are very quite. I do not play games, I basically type.

[rowdy]

I've been using my Ducky Shine 3 Yellow Edition with MX blacks at work for a while now, maybe 3 or 4 months.

It gets a fair bit of use during the day.

Originally the switches felt a bit gritty, but I think they have worn in or something now, because they feel much smoother.

I tried MX reds again on the weekend, this time with GMK TA on them, but despite the GML goodness the reds are still too light for me.

[ideus]

I've been using my Ducky Shine 3 Yellow Edition with MX blacks at work for a while now, maybe 3 or 4 months.

It gets a fair bit of use during the day.

Originally the switches felt a bit gritty, but I think they have worn in or something now, because they feel much smoother.

I tried MX reds again on the weekend, this time with GMK TA on them, but despite the GML goodness the reds are still too light for me.

They are certainly very light, I wonder how they may feel with some 65g springs.

[MoarCoffeePlzzz]

Light and Linear your best bet is going to be the browns or reds. I find the reds to be a bit light on the press but i do love the feel to them. I have doubled o-rings on a mx red board and use it as my gaming kb.

[rowdy]

I've been using my Ducky Shine 3 Yellow Edition with MX blacks at work for a while now, maybe 3 or 4 months.

It gets a fair bit of use during the day.

Originally the switches felt a bit gritty, but I think they have worn in or something now, because they feel much smoother.

I tried MX reds again on the weekend, this time with GMK TA on them, but despite the GML goodness the reds are still too light for me.

They are certainly very light, I wonder how they may feel with some 65g springs.

I would imagine pretty much like blacks.