ErgoDox problem: unresponsive

[goodger]

Hey there, I'm a new member here. I ordered an ErgoDox through the MassDrop group buy that ended in August, I built it successfully after the kit arrived in November, and I've been using it without issues for two weeks. Standard acrylic case, with an aluminum top plate. Today I came to work and discovered that the keyboard is almost completely unresponsive, and I'm hoping for some help.

Symptoms:

• Nothing is emitted by the keyboard when any keys are pressed.
• Keyboard not recognized by PC -- with the USBTreeView app running, I plug it in and nothing changes, no new USB device is shown.
• The Teensy Loader app doesn't see the keyboard either.
• All 3 LEDs are on solid (num lock, caps lock, scroll lock).
• Pushing the button on the Teensy turns off the LEDs (the only response I see), but the keyboard still doesn't show up as a USB device.

What I've tried:

• Disconnecting and reconnecting the keyboard.
• Pushing the Teensy board button.
• Disconnecting the keyboard, pushing and holding the Teensy board button, while reconnecting the keyboard.
• Using a different USB cable.
• Rebooting the workstation (Win XP -- yeah, I know).
• Connecting the keyboard to a different workstation.
• Combinations of the above.

So far, nothing is effective.

Has anybody had an experience like this? Any clues on what I can do next, what to look for, what to test?

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

David Goodger

[C5Allroad]

I'm not too familiar with the ergodox, but have you checked the soldering?
I think the only one who will really be able to help you is tp.
[Edit]You could try reloading the firmware.

TP WHERE ARE YOU?!

[goodger]

I think the soldering is OK. I'm not a soldering expert (this was the largest project I've done in many years), but someone who is looked at it and said it looked good. And I've been using the keyboard just fine for 2 weeks now.

I'd like to reload the firmware, but when I connect the keyboard to the PC it's in this unresponsive state and doesn't show up as a USB device. Is there some way to reset the Teensy board standalone?

The one thing I worry about is static electricity -- I've had a couple of shocks when touching the keyboard (perhaps the aluminum top plate makes that easier), and I had to disconnect and reconnect the keyboard for it to work properly. But lately I've been using an ESD wristband and ESD pads. When I left work last night, the keyboard was fine, and I doubt anybody would have touched it in-between.

Who is tp?

Thanks for your reply!

[C5Allroad]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=17009
This is tp^^

[fuus]

did you use the through hole diodes or surface mounted? Sounds like diodes are shorting over your alu plate

[tp4tissue]

plug in just the right side.. does it still not detect usb device.

[goodger]

I tried plugging in just the right side, and I get the exact same results: all 3 LEDs light up, no keyboard response, no USB device detected.

[goodger]

did you use the through hole diodes or surface mounted? Sounds like diodes are shorting over your alu plate

The diodes are surface mounted. The aluminum plate is the top plate, separated from the PCB by 2 layers of acrylic. There's no chance of it shorting because of that. I had the case apart and tried the bare PCB (with one acrylic plate between the MX switches and the PCB), same results.

[goodger]

I also tried unplugging the little stripped USB cable from the Teensy board, and plugging the Teensy's USB directly into the PC. As expected, the keyboard itself wasn't getting power, so the LEDs weren't lighting up. But the Teensy didn't show up as a USB device on the PC.

I'm wondering if the Teensy might have been fried by static electricity. I can get a new Teensy board and try replacing the old one. I don't want to do that again though; how should I protect it in future?

[tp4tissue]

I also tried unplugging the little stripped USB cable from the Teensy board, and plugging the Teensy's USB directly into the PC. As expected, the keyboard itself wasn't getting power, so the LEDs weren't lighting up. But the Teensy didn't show up as a USB device on the PC.

I'm wondering if the Teensy might have been fried by static electricity. I can get a new Teensy board and try replacing the old one. I don't want to do that again though; how should I protect it in future?

well before you buy another teensy, desolder this one and test it, use a pump or braid or compressor if you have one.


do you remember what part of the keyboard you "touched" where you felt a high static discharge?

[goodger]

I also tried unplugging the little stripped USB cable from the Teensy board, and plugging the Teensy's USB directly into the PC. As expected, the keyboard itself wasn't getting power, so the LEDs weren't lighting up. But the Teensy didn't show up as a USB device on the PC.

I'm wondering if the Teensy might have been fried by static electricity. I can get a new Teensy board and try replacing the old one. I don't want to do that again though; how should I protect it in future?

well before you buy another teensy, desolder this one and test it, use a pump or braid or compressor if you have one.


do you remember what part of the keyboard you "touched" where you felt a high static discharge?

It was when I was starting to type, I must have touched the top plate somewhere. The top plate (only) is anodized aluminum, so not as conductive as bare metal, but sparks will find a way. The sharp edge is the most likely place for the spark to have landed.

Whenever that happened, I would have to unplug the keyboard from the PC, but then (upon reconnecting) it would work fine.

I will desolder the Teensy board. How would you recommend testing it? Just plug it into the PC? That would isolate the problem.

Thanks, tp4tissue and everyone, for your advice!

[tp4tissue]

I also tried unplugging the little stripped USB cable from the Teensy board, and plugging the Teensy's USB directly into the PC. As expected, the keyboard itself wasn't getting power, so the LEDs weren't lighting up. But the Teensy didn't show up as a USB device on the PC.

I'm wondering if the Teensy might have been fried by static electricity. I can get a new Teensy board and try replacing the old one. I don't want to do that again though; how should I protect it in future?

well before you buy another teensy, desolder this one and test it, use a pump or braid or compressor if you have one.


do you remember what part of the keyboard you "touched" where you felt a high static discharge?

It was when I was starting to type, I must have touched the top plate somewhere. The top plate (only) is anodized aluminum, so not as conductive as bare metal, but sparks will find a way. The sharp edge is the most likely place for the spark to have landed.

Whenever that happened, I would have to unplug the keyboard from the PC, but then (upon reconnecting) it would work fine.

I will desolder the Teensy board. How would you recommend testing it? Just plug it into the PC? That would isolate the problem.

Thanks, tp4tissue and everyone, for your advice!

to test the teensy on its own just plug it in.


Are you SURE that the discharge is from YOU to the keyboard and not the other way around..

from the top plate to the pcb, it's either the inside of the screw hole punch outs of the pcb where there's exposed copper rim, or if there's some usb shielding mesh left over touching the top plate,

OR, it could jump from the plate directly to pcb across air.. pretty unlikely...

[goodger]

to test the teensy on its own just plug it in.

I desoldered the Teensy, connected it via USB to the PC, and sure enough it does not show up as a USB device. The culprit is most probably the Teensy board.

Are you SURE that the discharge is from YOU to the keyboard and not the other way around..

I can't be absolutely sure of which way the discharge is going :-)
But it's a very dry environment here, and I often feel a spark when I touch my ESD wristband.

from the top plate to the pcb, it's either the inside of the screw hole punch outs of the pcb where there's exposed copper rim, or if there's some usb shielding mesh left over touching the top plate,

OR, it could jump from the plate directly to pcb across air.. pretty unlikely...

Not sure what you mean by screw holes. The bolts holding the case together don't come near the PCB (separated by ~5mm of acrylic).

When I built the keyboard, I trimmed the USB shielding mesh & foil quite closely, but I will wrap the USB plug with some electrical tape to make doubly sure. I have a set of acrylic top plates coming from Massdrop, so I'll try those out as well, when my new Teensy board comes.

Thanks again for the help!

[goodger]

I informed support@massdrop.com of the issue. Excerpt:

"
I had issues with static shocks over the two weeks I used the keyboard, to the point where I started using an anti-static wristband at my desk. I now believe that the USB connector from the Teensy board to the main ErgoDox board (stripped USB mini cable) was the culprit, possibly touching the aluminum top plate (or forming a small-enough air gap) and providing a path to ground for electro-static discharge (ESD). The USB socket on the Teensy board sits very close to the top plate, and if the stripped USB cable's connector is at all bent (easy to do in the stripping process) or if there's any stray metal shielding, it's very likely to contact the top plate or come close enough for some nasty sparks.

Please amend the assembly instructions to include insulating the Teensy board from an aluminum top plate. A piece of electrical tape affixed to the USB socket & connector on the Teensy board would suffice. The assembly instructions describe an aluminum case and a supplied mylar sheet; I assume this was an option on earlier drops. Perhaps such a sheet should be included with the optional aluminum top plates as well.
"

I ordered a replacement Teensy board from PJRC (http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy_pins.html). Hopefully that, and a bit of electrical insulation, will fix the issue.

[wminor]

goodger: Have you received your new Teensy yet? Do you still believe that was the problem?

I'm getting very similar issues to you on my new ErgoDox build and am having trouble isolating the problem.

[goodger]

goodger: Have you received your new Teensy yet? Do you still believe that was the problem?

Yes, the Teensy was definitely fried and the new one (installed last Friday) solved the problem. I made sure that the USB cable connector was not bent up, and I put a piece of electrical tape on the exposed metal of the USB plug, to prevent contact with the aluminum cover and prevent future ESD sparks. So far, so good -- no sparks.

I'm getting very similar issues to you on my new ErgoDox build and am having trouble isolating the problem.

If you have an aluminum top plate, I strongly recommend removing it and adding electrical tape between the USB connectors and the top plate. If you already have a fried Teensy, try contacting Massdrop support and asking for a new one. It seems like a dangerous omission not to include a warning about ESD in the instructions.

Hope this helps!

[zachatttack]

I'm having a similar issue with my newly built ergodox, everything was working fine up until I pulled the trrs connector out of the right hand side while it was plugged in, but I have an acrylic top so I don't think it shorted out but then when I looked at the usb connector the D- and the Ground had a tiny wire from soldered mini-usb cable, I'm wondering if this wiped the firmware or something off of the teensy, does anyone know if there's a way to get the firmware back on the teensy without the computer, because my computer isn't recognizing it at all. I don't think it was a wiring issue either because it worked fine for about 3 hours until I unplugged the connector, the only mishap I had happen during the soldering was I destroyed the pad for one smd, so I soldered In a thru-hole, but like I said I don't think it shorted it out.

[goodger]

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert. I've built two ErgoDox keyboards in the last few months, but otherwise I have little knowledge of electronics. Having said that, here's my 2¢:

If the computer isn't seeing a USB device, I think it's not a firmware issue, but hardware. It's likely that your Teensy board is fried because of the short circuit you described. I recommend that you disassemble the case, remove any short-causing wires, disconnect the USB patch cable from the Teensy board, and plug the Teensy into the computer directly. If it doesn't see a USB device, the Teensy board is most likely fried. De-solder it from the main board and try again. In the meantime, get yourself a new Teensy board from pjrc.com. Wrap some electrical tape around the USB patch cable for good measure.

Maybe a real expert can confirm: if there *is* faulty firmware on the Teensy but the hardware is fine, will the Teensy board always show up as a USB device anyway?

[zachatttack]

I also forgot to say that this happened when I pulled out the trrs cable on the right side and plugged it back in, when I plug in the usb cable directly to the teensy nothing happens. So I'm guessing its fried, I already ordered a new teensy, looks like im going to be connecting the usb cable directly to the teensy instead of the bare metal on so I don't fry the new one.
y .

[Findecanor]

Maybe a real expert can confirm: if there *is* faulty firmware on the Teensy but the hardware is fine, will the Teensy board always show up as a USB device anyway?

I don't think so. The way the Teensy identifies itself to the host as a USB device would involve the firmware.
It might be possible that the firmware will fail, however, after it has set up itself as a USB device.

when I plug in the usb cable directly to the teensy nothing happens.

If you plug the USB cable directly to the Teensy on an ErgoDox from Massdrop, it won't work because then the left side will not receive power. On the PCB revision at Massdrop, the left side gets its power from the USB socket on the PCB.
If you use the later revision PCB from MechanicalKeyboards.com, then the left side gets its power through the Teensy.

The TRRS connectors have to be inserted all the way in, and there is a bit more resistance right before it is all the way in. If you are lucky, your problem is this simple.
I did have a problem on my ErgoDox that the (internal) USB plug also had to be inserted thoroughly all the way in into the Teensy's socket or it would not work at all, so do double-check that connection as well!

[zachatttack]

I believe I did fry the teensy because the ground and d+ wires were touching now I know to be more careful thought so it doesn't cause me another new teensy.

[Phenix]

I have an similar problem (the ergodox is hard-wired together, so no jacks)

Today I recognized the complete left hand isn't recognized. The left is recognized+programmable (this means the Teensy is fine, or)?

Any ideas?