GH life after Ivanovich and Berserkfan.

[ideus]

Some of us were affected directly by the recent issues aroused by these two GH members; but. certainly, all of us have been left with a bitter sentiment about any further transactions with what are actually strangers presenting themselves as trustworthy fellows.

How do you feel about these two failed buys?
Have you been affected directly?
Have you got involved with other transactions within GH, after these events?
Have you contributed with ideas to make GBs safer?

I was one of those that by mere luck were left out of these two vortices of problems; but, I share the frustration of all the brothers that naivaly got in, attracted by the good reputation of Ivan or by the apparently good deal offered by Berserk.

[tp4tissue]

I'm not sure we need another thread about this..

People will feel how they feel..

This may quickly devolve into insults....


What Ivan did is a straight up crooked,  whereas Berserk is crooked by accident(negligence)..

[daerid]

I got burned by over $120 from the PBT Dark buy. Tbh it sucks, but I'm not gonna let one bad incident ruin years of amazing, quality experiences with the rest of the community.

[trenzafeeds]

let's just remember that the berserkerfan thing wasn't a groupbuy. that's a fallacy that I've seen thrown around a lot, and I feel like there's a big difference between being ripped off in a groupbuy and being ripped off in a classifieds listing (even if it is a huge one).

[Photekq]

The berserkfan event was just a major, idiotic blunder rather than a scam. It's not of lasting importance and cannot be compared to Ivan's betrayal.

[appleonama]

I lost my wife, my children, and my job. I might jump off a bridge tomorrow.

[trenzafeeds]

The berserkfan event was just a major, idiotic blunder rather than a scam. It's not of lasting importance and cannot be compared to Ivan's betrayal.

agreed

I lost my wife, my children, and my job. I might jump off a bridge tomorrow.

your ****posting is reaching maximum velocity

[tp4tissue]

I lost my wife, my children, and my job. I might jump off a bridge tomorrow.

why a bridge... ??

[tjcaustin]

I lost my wife, my children, and my job. I might jump off a bridge tomorrow.

why a bridge... ??

There's usually water under a bridge, so cannonball.

[jaffers]

I lost my wife, my children, and my job. I might jump off a bridge tomorrow.

your ****posting is reaching maximum velocity

You know, if he goes any faster he will just decintergrate as he approaches the speed of light

[appleonama]

I lost my wife, my children, and my job. I might jump off a bridge tomorrow.

why a bridge... ??

You are right. I think there are better ways.

[demik]

I lost my wife, my children, and my job. I might jump off a bridge tomorrow.

why a bridge... ??

You are right. I think there are better ways.

Jump into the 405. You'll die a slow painful death. By traffic.

[Findecanor]

Huh? What happened? Anyone care to post a condensed version?

Stuff has been deleted from Berserkfan's thread that I can't follow it and I have totally missed the thing with Ivan Ivanovich.

[Venatorious]

The berserkfan event was just a major, idiotic blunder rather than a scam. It's not of lasting importance and cannot be compared to Ivan's betrayal.

Yeah scammers always disapear after taking money because that's all they were here to do, berserkfan is somewhat trying to still fix the mess he made.  I wouldn't throw him in with the likes of Ivan.

I lost my wife, my children, and my job. I might jump off a bridge tomorrow.

Do a flip

[ideus]

Forgiveness will do nothing for the empty space in your wallets; but, it will allow you to move on and enjoy the passion for outstanding input devices, again; that is the reason because we keep writing and reading in this small corner of the internet.

[Belfong]

I wasn't involved in Ivan's buy, fortunately, because I have enough caps and stuff then. But reading about it have shaken my faith in group buys and classifieds - a lot. I have not done any trades/purchases in the last 2-3 months. I think my last GB was EnjoyPBT and I joined that without knowing about Ivan's betrayal. Luckily that went well, but I'm much more selective now.

As for beserkerfan's, I actually bought his jailhouse Poker X, then when he decided not to accept Paypal and refunded everyone, I didn't repurchase because it's a chore for me to do bank transfer/Moneygram, etc. I'm glad I wasn't affected but man, it is indeed a big mess. Still I'd vouched him for not having bad intentions. He did try to make up but I think the scale of the mess-up is just too huge. My close call with this does make me even more wary about classifieds now.

[CPTBadAss]

I am continually shocked that there seems to be very little vetting. People see something for sale and just go and buy it. They think that because there's a mod team, the sellers are vetted or they're comfortable or whatever. I deeply believe that if you decide to buy something from someone, you need to *personally* check them out.

Do you get a warm and fuzzy from their old posts? Do they act one way here and another on ______ platform/forum? Did you ask your friends who are on this or _____ platform/forum if their trustworthy? Did you see if they have any feedback through Heatware or mechmarket or Instagram or _____ platform/forum? Did you ask user ______ with _______ reputation/rep/posts/karma/upvotes and you find trustworthy if they trust them?

Fortunately, geekhack is not bestbuy.com. This is still a community and forum first. So if you want to buy something, you shouldn't expect the same protections as bestbuy.com. So instead of continually throwing money at people, maybe step back for 5 minutes and dig around.

[rowdy]

Caveat emptor, as the classifieds guidelines say.

I wasn't in Ivan's GB, but I did pay berserkfan for something fairly small (one keycap set).  I know at least one other person paid him for the same set, I'm just hoping he had two sets.

Knowing what has happened in the past (DSA Dolch, anyone?) I tend to exercise caution when buying online.  When I buy something here it usually doesn't arrive for at least 3 weeks, so I'm out of pocket for that long anyway.  When committing to buy something, I try to allow for that, and for the eventuality that nothing arrives.

[demik]

I am continually shocked that there seems to be very little vetting. People see something for sale and just go and buy it. They think that because there's a mod team, the sellers are vetted or they're comfortable or whatever. I deeply believe that if you decide to buy something from someone, you need to *personally* check them out.

Do you get a warm and fuzzy from their old posts? Do they act one way here and another on ______ platform/forum? Did you ask your friends who are on this or _____ platform/forum if their trustworthy? Did you see if they have any feedback through Heatware or mechmarket or Instagram or _____ platform/forum? Did you ask user ______ with _______ reputation/rep/posts/karma/upvotes and you find trustworthy if they trust them?

Fortunately, geekhack is not bestbuy.com. This is still a community and forum first. So if you want to buy something, you shouldn't expect the same protections as bestbuy.com. So instead of continually throwing money at people, maybe step back for 5 minutes and dig around.

im just here because i love this guy right here.

cpt <3

[Spopepro]

I am continually shocked that there seems to be very little vetting. People see something for sale and just go and buy it. They think that because there's a mod team, the sellers are vetted or they're comfortable or whatever. I deeply believe that if you decide to buy something from someone, you need to *personally* check them out.

Do you get a warm and fuzzy from their old posts? Do they act one way here and another on ______ platform/forum? Did you ask your friends who are on this or _____ platform/forum if their trustworthy? Did you see if they have any feedback through Heatware or mechmarket or Instagram or _____ platform/forum? Did you ask user ______ with _______ reputation/rep/posts/karma/upvotes and you find trustworthy if they trust them?

Fortunately, geekhack is not bestbuy.com. This is still a community and forum first. So if you want to buy something, you shouldn't expect the same protections as bestbuy.com. So instead of continually throwing money at people, maybe step back for 5 minutes and dig around.

I despise these threads that seem to be a periodic event here, and for the most part I agree with the cpt.

But, Ivan's disappearance is the gold standard for "there's really nothing you can do". There's significant risk if someone is new, there's significant risk if someone is in a different country, a long ways away, there's significant risk when it's a new idea or design. And none of those were the case for Ivan, who has completed a large number of GBs right up until he didn't. So, yes, people need to be more discerning about who they are partnering with (GB runners aren't sales people, or vendors, best to think of them as partners, and the only one with control of the bank account) but Ivan shows that being discerning isn't going to save you all of the time.

It is unfortunate, but the recommendation probably needs to move from "caveat emptor" to "all group buys are highly speculative ventures and should never be paid with non-disposable income". But there would still be people starting threads wondering what the mods will do to protect them from themselves...

**edit because I fail at quoting the right person

[[Lewynlight]]

This (berserkfan sale) was my first transaction on GH.

I don't know what to do or say again. Just wait for the goods that will (99%) came out as others?

[rowdy]

This (berserkfan sale) was my first transaction on GH.

I don't know what to do or say again. Just wait for the goods that will (99%) came out as others?

Treat it as a lucky dip and see what you got.

[clacktalk]

I am continually shocked that there seems to be very little vetting. People see something for sale and just go and buy it. They think that because there's a mod team, the sellers are vetted or they're comfortable or whatever. I deeply believe that if you decide to buy something from someone, you need to *personally* check them out.

Do you get a warm and fuzzy from their old posts? Do they act one way here and another on ______ platform/forum? Did you ask your friends who are on this or _____ platform/forum if their trustworthy? Did you see if they have any feedback through Heatware or mechmarket or Instagram or _____ platform/forum? Did you ask user ______ with _______ reputation/rep/posts/karma/upvotes and you find trustworthy if they trust them?

Fortunately, geekhack is not bestbuy.com. This is still a community and forum first. So if you want to buy something, you shouldn't expect the same protections as bestbuy.com. So instead of continually throwing money at people, maybe step back for 5 minutes and dig around.

do u remember the good ole days when i would run ppl past u before i made buys/sales

THOSE DAYS ARE DEAD

[CPTBadAss]

do u remember the good ole days when i would run ppl past u before i made buys/sales

THOSE DAYS ARE DEAD

A strong powerful woman like you doesn't need me or anyone else bb.

[chuckdee]

If it was my first transaction, I might have a different taste in my mouth.  But I've done deals on GH, Deskthority, and Reddit, with good success.  And, I'm a member of the GB for The Van, which has been run aboveboard, and with evidence of of Evan's meticulous preparation.  And that has more than balanced this.  I did forget the due diligence that I usually apply to such- the prices made me blind, and the fact that I've had such good success.    At best, Paypal will make things right.  At worst, it's an expensive reminder.  I was deciding between the caps and a new clueboard, and figuring with the demand for Granite, I could use it to finance that investment.  I guess not. 

What's hurt most is his handling of it, when I was trying to be reasonable.  I was very disappointed, but didn't let that show in my communication with him.  But his responses...

Oh well.  I see that Puffy had it wrong.  Because this is definitely "Less Money, Mo Problems"

[redbanshee]

For anyone that is reading this that was effected by Ivan's RS84 scam:

We've managed to contact the Red Scarf creator and hes been super nice and is helping us out please see the form here:

http://goo.gl/forms/fDbzHlOJ2Z

also in my signature

[tp4tissue]

For anyone that is reading this that was effected by Ivan's RS84 scam:

We've managed to contact the Red Scarf creator and hes been super nice and is helping us out please see the form here:

http://goo.gl/forms/fDbzHlOJ2Z

also in my signature

and this time we're SURE,  it's not a B2B Double scam ?

[Scarpia]

What Ivan did is a straight up crooked,  whereas Berserk is crooked by accident(negligence)..

The berserkfan event was just a major, idiotic blunder rather than a scam.

Can I interject something here? Everyone keeps talking as if it matters how or why there was a shipping cluster****. That's entirely not the point. What is the point is that we now know that berserkfan double- and triple-sold a bunch of the most sought-after / best-priced items. That wasn't his wife, or a spreadsheet error, or packing stress, or anyone else's fault. That's a clear cut instant refund-and-apology, or it's an intentional scam. You can't sell an item you don't have. Berserkfan did this over and over and over again, a dozen times at least.

The money for those double-sold items are in berserkfan's pocket, and so are their shipping costs, as you naturally can't ship something you don't have... such as multiple stock Bigfoot boards or modded PokerX's or KBT Pures. In fact, most of what I ordered and paid for was also paid for by others. Maybe I'll be the lucky one who actually receives some of it, but that only means those other people got ripped off.

[kiwi99]

Personally I haven't been a part of either of the two incidents but they sure have made me think about who I am giving money to if I participate in a buy in the future of any kind. As most know no one expected Ivan was going to dash so in my future purchases I think I will stay fairly strict to the paypal buyer protection and if no concrete updates on payments to manufacturers or shipping receipts are being made then I'd have to really think about protecting my money. That being said **** happens, and if something were to go bad in a buy I'm in I'd just hope the runner of the buy would be open about it, I think a lot of people would be less upset with something going wrong than with someone disappearing with their money.

[Belfong]

Paypal recently changed their policy in regards to crowdfunding. I wonder when they will change their policy in regards to group buys.

[qwack]

Don't think this qualifies as a group buy anyway.

[chuckdee]

Paypal recently changed their policy in regards to crowdfunding. I wonder when they will change their policy in regards to group buys.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82049.msg2169299#msg2169299

[Belfong]

Don't think this qualifies as a group buy anyway.

Well, this thread is about life AFTER Ivan and Bersekerfan, so my comment is very relevant.

[LunarisDream]

Paypal recently changed their policy in regards to crowdfunding. I wonder when they will change their policy in regards to group buys.

It's okay, Paypal has been ****ing over GBs long before this, and will continue to cover their ass by freezing accounts whenever they deem the risk to be great enough and kill off the potential. I had to refund every payment made through Paypal for my GB and that ****ing sucked after taking two minutes to manually send out and check the info of every invoice. Then I had to find different payment platforms and send those out, again!

Paypal is no bueno for group buys, and now they're making that clear. And it's because Paypal has all the power of a banking entity with none of the legal restraints. They can do whatever the hell they like with your money and there's little you can do.

[qwack]

Well, this thread is about life AFTER Ivan and Bersekerfan, so my comment is very relevant.

Oh, right. There are so many threads about berserkfan's mess that I forgot this one was also about Ivan.

[Coreda]

So that beserkfan 'all stuff must go' thread ended up being a disaster, or is this something different?

[yomammary]

So that beserkfan 'all stuff must go' thread ended up being a disaster, or is this something different?

That's pretty much it.

[Blackehart]

Vetting doesn't do squat.

Ivan was heavily vetted. I wasn't in on any trades with Berserk, so no comment on him.

TheChemist  was also heavily vetted and he went poof with lots of my gear.

So, now, the only way I'll do any sort of business here is if something is pretty much guaranteed to get to me within 30 days or if I know people  in the area of the people I'm doing business with, that way I can send over a pair of two-fisted yojimbos if the trade goes awry.

^_^

[chuckdee]

Vetting doesn't do squat.

Ivan was heavily vetted. I wasn't in on any trades with Berserk, so no comment on him.

TheChemist  was also heavily vetted and he went poof with lots of my gear.

So, now, the only way I'll do any sort of business here is if something is pretty much guaranteed to get to me within 30 days or if I know people  in the area of the people I'm doing business with, that way I can send over a pair of two-fisted yojimbos if the trade goes awry.

^_^

Less Risk, but also less reward.  I did sales with random people that turned out really good, and I was able to get things I wouldn't have been otherwise.  I guess it's like the stock market or any other high risk venture.  You have to balance out the risk vs. the possible reward vs. your own tolerance.  Because I agree.. no matter how much vetting there is, that equation is always in effect.

[vivalarevolución]

When I saw the berserk sale, the first thought is no way this going to go smoothly, this is too much for one person.  And sometimes this guy goes a little off the handle,  who knows what can happen here.

Rule #1: Trust your gut.

Rule #2: Think of those times you didn't trust your gut. You probably should have trusted your gut, right? 

(Both rules always apply when eating pizza and ice cream).

[fohat.digs]

I don't know. Both of those guys were here for quite a while as respectable members before they broke bad.

Some just fade away, and some go out in a blaze of glory .....

[vivalarevolución]

I don't know. Both of those guys were here for quite a while as respectable members before they broke bad.

Some just fade away, and some go out in a blaze of glory .....

Not sure whether I should quote Highlander or Neil Young.

[Lu_e]

I haven't been on here in a long time... but the last group buy I was in, was Ivan's first round of blank black pbt; https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50935.0

Which took from November 2013 to April 2015 :O

The gist of the story being? he had one (two? or more?) group buys going and just disappeared with everyone's money? That's pretty close to me being ripped off for a second time (changdrew being the first).

Always seemed like a fairly stand up guy.. but there were some indicators, mainly not honoring to fix the short right shift key or whatever was left out, & just leaving it up to imsto.. (never did get mine, even after the initial reply from imsto). & scoops magically appeared on our sets about 3/4 of the way through the group buy, after paying for keys without scoops.

The berserk guy always seemed like an odd one to me, speaking in riddles and such.

[[Lewynlight]]

This (berserkfan sale) was my first transaction on GH.

I don't know what to do or say again. Just wait for the goods that will (99%) came out as others?

Treat it as a lucky dip and see what you got.

i doubt that i will get more than i paid..

[Puddsy]

group drama is one of three big reasons i don't really post here anymore

exciting most of the time but when you realize people are losing money you start to realize that it's pretty ****ty

anyway i'm gonna respond to your questions now

How do you feel about these two failed buys?

I've been saying for a long time that GBs need more direct oversight by mods/trusted 3rd party users. I mean, Caveat Emptor, sure, but it's really frustrating when a random Korean guy runs off with 100k in PBT blood money. It's also frustrating when your manufacturer takes another year+ than you expected to ship out your order.

Have you been affected directly?

Not by these latest ones, no. I've been scammed in the past though. I'm not 100% on what's gone on lately, as I don't even lurk that much anymore, but thankfully I've avoided the most recent round of issues.

Have you got involved with other transactions within GH, after these events?

No, but I'm not against it. I think that GH is a great forum for buying/selling stuff. Lots of good people here, but the occasional buffoon does sneak through.

Have you contributed with ideas to make GBs safer?

I've contributed to the odd discussion here and there, but I try to keep my involvement with GH's rules fairly minimal after that whole "whoops we accidentally gave TS global mod powers for no reason" thing.I do think that there's a lot that can be done to improve the current GB system, but I leave it to the people with more experience in it than myself to figure it out. I'm smart enough to know to do that much.