SINGLE flaw of Cherry Switches

[tp4tissue]

Update:

They're Here, mx silents for all..










it's impossible to make the switch perfectly silent.

The downstroke (bottom out) sound can be dampened by o-rings

HOWEVER, on the rebound stroke, when you let go of the key, it will slightly click against the upper housing of the switch..

Does anyone know if we can add dampeners to the inside of the switch?

[alaricljs]

Anything is possible.  The issues that would need dealing with are durability/longevity and reduction in travel.  That's after you get past the technical difficulties of actually sticking tiny pieces of rubber in the right places inside the switch.

[hcry4]

Try these?
Maybe earplugs would be simpler?

[tp4tissue]

Yes, anything is possible.  Either modify slider or top of slider channel tab.

I'd show detailed pics but I'm lazy after achieving complete #1 dominance.

yea i looked into the diagrams,, if activation point is at 2mm, we have less than that for dampening. and it cannot be done on all four sides surrounding the slider, only left and right.  I may have to just live with this...

[Supertoaster]

My only con is their price.

[pitashen]

why did u go for a mechanical keyboard by the way?

[tp4tissue]

It doesn't need to be done for all 4 sides.  Just the two points that make contact during the upstroke.

Could be down if mini versions of Complicated White Dampened ALPS style bumpers were inserted into the sides.

Show Image

Not that anyone would actually DO anything that crazy.

We'd also have to remove some of the upper casing material for space concerns. probably need a dentel drill to do light removal on this type of plastic...  they start at $150, LOL,,

[Findecanor]

I don't think that there is space inside the switch to do this. The rubber dampers would have to be very very small.

BTW, I think that there are more flaws with Cherry switches. They have a bit of friction.
I think that the ideal switch -- for me, at least -- would be something in-between a Cherry Clear and a Topre: A rubber dome and a coiled spring in parallel. The dome would provide tactility, but does not have friction like the Cherry's slider does. The spring would provide increasing resistance (and not be almost insignificant, as it is inside a Topre switch).

[tp4tissue]

I've tried dremel on plastics before, NEVER had a good experience, it bites too deep, and rips out chunks.

[tp4tissue]

I don't think that there is space inside the switch to do this. The rubber dampers would have to be very very small.

BTW, I think that there are more flaws with Cherry switches. They have a bit of friction.
I think that the ideal switch -- for me, at least -- would be something in-between a Cherry Clear and a Topre: A rubber dome and a coiled spring in parallel. The dome would provide tactility, but does not have friction like the Cherry's slider does. The spring would provide increasing resistance (and not be almost insignificant, as it is inside a Topre switch).

The friction, you're talking about is unavoidable as long as the switches are made with plastic. You can go higher and higher on the mechanical tolerance. But over time, there's nothing you can do to avoid the plastic warping or wearing "ever so slightly"

The only solution would be to build the switches out of metal. If we could get that down to say $2000 per keyboard on a group buy, lololol

[Findecanor]

I've tried dremel on plastics before, NEVER had a good experience, it bites too deep, and rips out chunks.

I am guessing that you are doing it wrong. Because plastic has such a relatively low melting point, you need to use a low speed; otherwise, you would just melt the plastic instead of cutting/grinding.
Low speed does require a good Dremel, however. Use a real brand Dremel; cheap copies regulate only power, not speed.
Proxxon multitools were made to cut plastics, but I would not recommend them. They have good speed regulation, but not much power, so they are not useful for anything but plastics. I have had two, and both broke the first day I used them.

The friction, you're talking about is unavoidable as long as the switches are made with plastic.

I am talking about the friction of the slider against the contact leaf. It accounts for most of the friction inside a Cherry switch. Clears are worst, because of the large bump on the slider. Blues are best, because of the inner slider moving only around actuation/reset.

[tp4tissue]

I am guessing that you are doing it wrong. Because plastic has such a relatively low melting point, you need to use a low speed; otherwise, you would just melt the plastic instead of cutting/grinding.
Low speed does require a good Dremel, however. Use a real brand Dremel; cheap copies regulate only power, not speed.
Proxxon multitools were made to cut plastics, but I would not recommend them. They have good speed regulation, but not much power, so they are not useful for anything but plastics. I have had two, and both broke the first day I used them.


I am talking about the friction of the slider against the contact leaf. It accounts for most of the friction inside a Cherry switch. Clears are worst, because of the large bump on the slider. Blues are best, because of the inner slider moving only around actuation/reset.

I dislike the blues myself, primarily thanks to a bad experience with Razer blackwidow,,such a piece of ****..............................................

right now using another piece of **** the K60,, going to swap for a cmstorm reds when they become available on  Amazon.

I don't see how the blues would be less friction than the reds though. it has that bump,, so interms of total "lenth of contact with the leaf switch, it'd be longer.??/??//?

[sordna]

I am guessing that you are doing it wrong. Because plastic has such a relatively low melting point, you need to use a low speed; otherwise, you would just melt the plastic instead of cutting/grinding.

The bit makes a huge difference. I didn't have good results cutting my keyboard case with the dremel #561 multi-purpose cutting bit, so I then switched to the #9902 tungsten-carbide bit and got much smoother cuts. I used a medium speed.

[Input Nirvana]

The correct cutting blade/bit is the most important factor in any cut, in any material. Type of material the blade/bit is made of, the number of teeth, size of teeth, angle of teeth, space between teeth, etc. If it's a drill then there are a few less criteria, but the principle is the same. Then follows speed. Speed is somewhat related to the power needed to push through the material, but is definitely a factor for heat that degrades the cutting blade and then can overheat the material being cut, which can have adverse affects.

There is an entire science to cutting. If you know just a tiny fraction of it, your life will be a lot easier, and your work will be much better.

I usually just file plastics now for small stuff.

[mkawa]

isn't this was hall effect switches are for? if you're willing to fab (and you must be if you're this crazy), that seems like the way to go.

[sordna]

Just don't steal my patented tactile frictionless magnetic switch idea.

Hmm, the magnet should be an electromagnet, allowing the keyboard force to be adjustable! It will draw a lot of power, but it would be so cool I wouldn't even mind having to plug my keyboard in the mains power if I could individually adjust the force of each key from 25 to 60 grams! That would be an ergonomic wonder.

[sordna]

Cool. Imaging all the keys plopping down when you turn off the power. And popping up when you turn the keyboard on! Hmm, they shouldn't be just force adjustable, but height adjustable too. I don't want to think how much such a keyboard would cost.

[tp4tissue]

Just don't steal my patented tactile frictionless magnetic switch idea.  I plan on selling it to Apple and buying a Caribbean Island and become it's Dictator.
(Attachment Link) 41953[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 41954[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 41955[/ATTACH]

Great idea, you can go to China, TODAY, and make it happen.

[tp4tissue]

.........

Nah.  Bad air.  West Coast USA air is nice and clean.

Except LA of course.

I don't want it to seem like I'm telling you how to live,

buuuut,, don't put yourself in the way of your own dreams, you've got a really good idea here.


and honestly, it can happen no where else

[SpAmRaY]

it's impossible to make the switch perfectly silent.

The downstroke (bottom out) sound can be dampened by o-rings

HOWEVER, on the rebound stroke, when you let go of the key, it will slightly click against the upper housing of the switch..

Does anyone know if we can add dampeners to the inside of the switch?

Wow.....TP4....cherry kind of stole your idea for their silent switches.... 

[digi]

it's impossible to make the switch perfectly silent.

The downstroke (bottom out) sound can be dampened by o-rings

HOWEVER, on the rebound stroke, when you let go of the key, it will slightly click against the upper housing of the switch..

Does anyone know if we can add dampeners to the inside of the switch?

Wow.....TP4....cherry kind of stole your idea for their silent switches.... 

Start the petition TP, we'll sign it.

[merlin64]

Cherry MX silents address some of your concerns. There are others who have internally dampened the switch by putting a thin layer of liquid latex in the housing

[davkol]

Wow.....TP4....cherry kind of stole your idea for their silent switches.... 

Then again, ALPS Electric did the same thing in the 90s. In a *tactile* switch.

Cherry MX silents address some of your concerns. There are others who have internally dampened the switch by putting a thin layer of liquid latex in the housing

Well, yeah, sure. But, y'know, the thread is from early 2012.

[merlin64]

LOL! I didn't even notice

[chyros]

I raised this point in several of my video reviews - and, as Davkol pointed out, the solution has been known since the 90s .

[ander]

Cherry Americas’ silent Cherry MX switches now available for all keyboards (Digital Trends, Dec. 2016)