Author Topic: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones  (Read 11495 times)

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Offline IBMPCDOS5

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The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 13:53:29 »
I originally started a thread called, "I have an idea..." and there I gained a bunch of supporters as well as doubters, plugging my Patreon too early and calling it a scam.

I would like to remake the famous SKCM family of the Alps keyswitches. I want to do this because although Matias makes good clones of the SKBM line and improves them greatly, nothing can match the great sound and feel of complicated Alps.

I am hoping to recreate the following switches under the Geekhack name:
Blue: 70 gf, clicky
Orange: 60 gf, tactile
Green: 50 gf, linear
Lime: 70 gf (?), tactile (limited edition)
Amber: 75 gf, clicky (limited edition)

I will be taking the clear housing idea from Matias for the use of LEDs so the switches are uniform in feel. Furthermore, I hope an OEM such as Cooler Master could use these in gaming keyboards in place of MX.

They will have two mounts:

Bar Mount: Standard Alps mount, for use with the high quality Alps caps made by Alps Electric.

Cross Mount: Standard Cherry mount, for use with custom sets.

For me to copy these switches, I need one loose switch in good condition of the following switches:
Alps SKCM Blue
Alps SKCM Orange
Alps SKCM Green (Linear)
Alps SKCM Lime (Neon Green)

I do not need Amber Alps as that is coming in the mail by April 7th. If you do not have any Neon Alps then I understand and will not make them due to rarity. If you would like to mail me one, then please email me at ibmpcdos5@gmail.com

~IBMPCDOS5

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Offline merlin64

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 15:54:12 »
Do you think you could elaborate more on how you will make this a reality?

For example

1. How will you get molds made?
2. How do you deal with common problems such as Alps->MX conversion?
3. How will you mass produce this?

I'm not trying to dissuade you from doing this as I've been waiting for this for a long time. I'd just like to see more concrete plans rather than...I want to make this switch.

Offline IBMPCDOS5

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 16:12:31 »


Do you think you could elaborate more on how you will make this a reality?

For example

1. How will you get molds made?
2. How do you deal with common problems such as Alps->MX conversion?
3. How will you mass produce this?

I'm not trying to dissuade you from doing this as I've been waiting for this for a long time. I'd just like to see more concrete plans rather than...I want to make this switch.

1. I do not plan to make keyboards for a while, rather make switches and see if I can make keyboards later on; these are meant like the replacement modules that never happened.

2. I think that the mounts would be accomplished by a Alps to Cherry mount adapter, until I can get concrete measurements.

3. Good question -- I am not sure how to answer that. I really feel that unless this gets VERY popular, (which is kinda likely) I will not need to. I could always ask friends and fellow members who would like to help.

Probably didn't answer your question but at least you got some more info. I can post my plans I have written, though it is a carbon copy of the first post.

~IBMPCDOS5

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Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 18:48:08 »
OK, to be clear, you're actually planning to recreate the switchplate with its thin copper contact foil? And which type: tall (large removable foil sheet) or short (thin foil strip)?

PS "Bar mount" refers to a slider with a tall rectangular post. It's not a very elegant term, but it was the best I could think of. Bar mount is exemplified by Tokai MM9 series. Alps is what I all "rectangular slot", and is classed as a "negative" mount (slider contains a hole). Bar mount is a "positive" mount.
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Offline svatech

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:52:12 »
I would gladly send you a brown alps switch as these are my favorite and i have an extra one. i know that is not a color you mentioned but why not make brown alps clones too

Offline svatech

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:52:54 »
I can also send some green ones

Offline chyros

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 01:03:18 »
Very interested in this project of course, but I would advise to keep the black housing from the original switches (I think it's ABS) instead of the polycarbonate ones from Matiases as the housing is an important factor with the sound. All I managed to get out of Alps with regards to the lubricant is that it was "JIS spec, probably silicone based".
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Offline Harms

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 01:39:19 »
This is very interesting and would love to see where this goes :).

Best wishes to you :).

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 02:49:37 »
I am not sure that the lubricant matters for blue Alps. The difference with blue is in the force curve, and nobody knows where this difference lies compared to white Alps.

I assume that, at some point, Jacob#1 is going to swap parts around and examine them using the power of the force — this way we can reliably determine precisely which components are responsible for the feel.

We know that the tactile peak is shallower and starts later. The steel formulation and thickness would affect the magnitude of the force, but not the onset — or would it? The click occurs when the slider finds it easier to slip past the leaf than pull it further forwards, and potentially a change to the click leaf would alter this balance: perhaps a stiffer click leaf would deflect less, causing the slider to push past it (click) sooner. If the leaf is more flexible, it may continue to be pulled forwards for longer.

It's been suggested that the simplified Alps design of having only one actuator prong, to one side of the slider, affects the balance of the switch by trying to tilt the slider. It would be interesting to see how the allegedly Himake switches with this design feel — these are the types typically found in Ortek and Strong Man keyboards (alps.tw Types T5 and T8).

I have a keyboard with USw LABI01 switches, which are a rare type of clone (nothing special, just rare). These, to me, feel many times better than Matias: clean and precise, with just one peak in force, and very smooth. They also have a much stronger, sharper click than Matias. I don't know how consistent they are, but that could be addressed through QC. Longevity, however, is a complete mystery as they're so rare — are they rare because most keyboards using them had high levels of switch failure? There's no way to be sure. They're comparatively heavy though, similar to alps.tw type OA2: not super stiff like the Filco Zero XM or MiniTouch clones, but maybe a bit heaver than white Alps. They could do with being a tad lighter, I feel.

There's a lot of different characteristics of the switch that determine its feel, and the trick is finding materials (composition, thickness etc) that not just provide the desired feel from new, but still work well enough tens of millions of keystrokes later. I don't know that we need to reproduce the switchplate, but the exact balance of forces needs to be understood precisely, with appropriately chosen materials and part shapes and sizes.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 05:23:51 »
Do you think you could elaborate more on how you will make this a reality?

For example

1. How will you get molds made?
2. How do you deal with common problems such as Alps->MX conversion?
3. How will you mass produce this?

I'm not trying to dissuade you from doing this as I've been waiting for this for a long time. I'd just like to see more concrete plans rather than...I want to make this switch.

What merlin64 is saying is..


User, -IBMPCDOS5- has not posted any engineering content to confirm to forum users that he know what he's doing.


Which field are you in. IBMPCDOS5 ?

Offline IBMPCDOS5

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 06:54:20 »
Hey tp4. I think that this is going to be a huge turnoff for all, but I am NOT an engineer of any sort. Rather, I am just an enthusiast who feels we should have better than just MX, even if they greatly improved from what I've seen.

I DO have my father, an engineer and he would love to help me with this project.

Svatech, please email me at ibmpcdos5@gmail.com for my shipping address.

Chyros, I will keep that in consideration. If I were to do that, then like Alps, keyboards with integrated lock lights will be linear. (I have no idea why Tapatalk won't let me quote replies so this will do for now.)

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Offline IBMPCDOS5

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 06:55:22 »
Hey tp4. I think that this is going to be a huge turnoff for all, but I am NOT an engineer of any sort. Rather, I am just an enthusiast who feels we should have better than just MX, even if they greatly improved from what I've seen.

I DO have my father, an engineer and he would love to help me with this project.

Svatech, please email me at ibmpcdos5@gmail.com for my shipping address.

Chyros, I will keep that in consideration. If I were to do that, then like Alps, keyboards with integrated lock lights will be linear. (I have no idea why Tapatalk won't let me quote replies so this will do for now.)

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Offline chyros

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 14:30:02 »
One good thing is that there is a spec sheet somewhere that lists the dimensions of the switches quite nicely, so in that regard we're lucky.

I think the main three points would be the slits in the housing, the complicated tall switchplate, and the click leaf, which appears to be curved rather than bent - and of course the materials all these things are made of. Alan Caudle suggested that the slider was made out of nylon, but they might've changed that to POM when they substituted the lubricant for a slipperier plastic.

I'd love for this to come true so everyone can enjoy the pure satisfaction of using brand-new blue Alps. If I can help somehow, let me know.

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Offline IBMPCDOS5

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 14:34:32 »
One good thing is that there is a spec sheet somewhere that lists the dimensions of the switches quite nicely, so in that regard we're lucky.

I think the main three points would be the slits in the housing, the complicated tall switchplate, and the click leaf, which appears to be curved rather than bent - and of course the materials all these things are made of. Alan Caudle suggested that the slider was made out of nylon, but they might've changed that to POM when they substituted the lubricant for a slipperier plastic.

I'd love for this to come true so everyone can enjoy the pure satisfaction of using brand-new blue Alps. If I can help somehow, let me know.
Okay Tom, thanks for the info. Mind if I PM you?

~IBMPCDOS5

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Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 16:03:13 »
One good thing is that there is a spec sheet somewhere that lists the dimensions of the switches quite nicely, so in that regard we're lucky.

The SKCMCQ/SKCLAR datasheet dimensions were all wrong — when I made my DIN diagram I had to replace all the measurements with my own.
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Offline klennkellon

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 16:31:15 »
I'd totally back this!

Offline IBMPCDOS5

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 17:39:47 »


One good thing is that there is a spec sheet somewhere that lists the dimensions of the switches quite nicely, so in that regard we're lucky.

The SKCMCQ/SKCLAR datasheet dimensions were all wrong — when I made my DIN diagram I had to replace all the measurements with my own.

Daniel, if you don't mind, can you send me the correct measurements?

I'd totally back this!
Thanks! I have a Patreon if you would like to help me, any amount is greatly appreciated.

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Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 17:59:35 »
I don't have full dimensions, this was just for a single 2D drawing. I'd suggest that you'd want something more accurate than cheap callipers if you want to make moulds.

I think you're missing the point though — it took Matias two years to arrive at their switch design and yet you feel that, without any engineering knowledge, you can improve on that.

For starters, I'd like to hope that you already understand that a loose switch is no use as an indicator of feel. Further, human perception is hopelessly flawed — you'll want a force gauge at least as accurate as Jacob's to determine not just the force curve, but also the friction.

Supposing you measured the click leaf dimensions precisely: what's it made from? Are you confident that you could select an appropriate metal that will function as expected? Even Alps couldn't get this right — white Alps lost everything that made blue Alps so special.

This isn't nut and bolt engineering — this much more subtle. For example, you need to control the extent to which switch actuation interferes with feel. I broke the switchplate in an Omron B3G-S Amber switch, and with that gone, it felt substantially smoother and lighter: clicky but so much better. The contacts can have a drastic effect on feel. For example, this is plain old linear green Alps SKCC:

https://plot.ly/~haata/326/alps-skccbk/

The switchplate system requires very little force or motion, but the leaf spring that converts vertical to horizontal motion seems to have a strong influence in some cases. I have some NOS Alps SKCL Yellow switches that have distinct tactility when they're not supposed to.

Obviously it's perfectly feasible to recreate blue Alps, but I'd expect you to have some kind of laboratory set up, and a detailed plan for examining the materials and parts.
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Offline svatech

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 06 April 2017, 08:50:17 »
I drew up a stem adapter in autocad. it converts alps stem to cherry stem. i have uploaded it in .stl and .ipt for inventor users. stl is universal, and it should work in sketchup i think.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/czjmtrgxhqn67l7/stem+adapter.ipt
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ug6jbm8d8facfl7/stem+adapter.stl

Offline svatech

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 06 April 2017, 09:08:24 »
I also made a file with 27 stems so that you could use a 3d printer. just print it 4 times and you should have enough for a standard keyboard. you could print it 3 times for 60% or 2 times for a 40% layout.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/df4h2lwyiqj7fyt/multi+stems.stl

Offline dante

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 06 April 2017, 10:50:07 »
How difficult would it be to add dampening support to the housing?  Just in case we could get those dampening things (I don't know what you call them) that are on the side of Matias switches?

Offline klennkellon

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 06 April 2017, 12:02:45 »
How difficult would it be to add dampening support to the housing?  Just in case we could get those dampening things (I don't know what you call them) that are on the side of Matias switches?
It's just some slots cut into the slider that you can stick a dumbbell shaped rubber into.

The Matias do it a bit differently though, on SKCM Dampened they had a peg meet the bumpers on the slider which meant the key-travel was changed as little as possible, but on the Matias the rubber itself extends out of the slider so it noticeably reduces key-travel.

Offline Krakob

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 06 April 2017, 12:34:16 »
Wouldn't it be best to make a hybrid-ish switch? It shouldn't be too hard to redesign it for the MX stem and PCB footprint, maybe even the plate footprint as well. That'll get you perfect compatibility across the board.
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Offline chyros

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 06 April 2017, 12:56:30 »
The question is whether you want it to be blue Alps or not :p . As we've learned, changing even small parts just a little bit can change one or more properties quite massively. It's a tradeoff of how much of the original quality you want to maintain versus how many problems you want to solve or new features you want to introduce.
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Offline kawasaki161

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 06 April 2017, 13:29:48 »
Wouldn't it be best to make a hybrid-ish switch? It shouldn't be too hard to redesign it for the MX stem and PCB footprint, maybe even the plate footprint as well. That'll get you perfect compatibility across the board.

The question is whether you want it to be blue Alps or not :p . As we've learned, changing even small parts just a little bit can change one or more properties quite massively. It's a tradeoff of how much of the original quality you want to maintain versus how many problems you want to solve or new features you want to introduce.

Adapting a working (and correctly feeling) switchplate design to the PCB footpring shoudn't affect feel at all. Just leave the switchplate stuff like it is up to the legs and only move those around a little, shouldn't be too hard.

Full plate compatibility can be achieved by removing the side tabs and adding some material (and simple tabs to hold it in place) to the bottom piece so it matches the MX cutout size. Also, PCB mount legs would be a nice addon which also shouldn't change feel. We are only changing the bottom piece for this, so nothing of this should affect feel.

The stem is the hardest part to adapt, mainly because it will be hard enough to make it "just right" even in original ALPS compatible form.



The thing is, replicating the ORIGINAL feel will be the critical part, most of the MX compatibility stuff shouldn't be a problem (except the slider part).
Let's see what happens. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would LOVE to be able to just straight up buy the real-deal ALPS, this would really be pretty groundbreaking for this community I suppose... if it really happens, that is.

Offline IBMPCDOS5

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 06 April 2017, 14:56:18 »
Heya, update everyone. Svatech has been a really big help by mailing two of his loose ALPS switches; Brown and SKCL Green. If you wanna help me with some cash, I may setup a GoFundMe page. Should I do this?

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 06 April 2017, 15:00:18 »
Heya, update everyone. Svatech has been a really big help by mailing two of his loose ALPS switches; Brown and SKCL Green. If you wanna help me with some cash, I may setup a GoFundMe page. Should I do this?

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I wish you the best but people would be crazy to throw money at this project without more information and without a concrete plan.

Also I saw this today https://www.novelkeys.xyz/shop/alps-switch-tester in case you wanted to invest in an alps switch tester.

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 06 April 2017, 15:36:00 »
Hm, he's got superstiffy APC switches too. Mine aren't the same adorable shade of green though.
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Offline Prince Valiant

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 07 April 2017, 19:08:15 »
Heya, update everyone. Svatech has been a really big help by mailing two of his loose ALPS switches; Brown and SKCL Green. If you wanna help me with some cash, I may setup a GoFundMe page. Should I do this?

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I wish you the best but people would be crazy to throw money at this project without more information and without a concrete plan.

Also I saw this today https://www.novelkeys.xyz/shop/alps-switch-tester in case you wanted to invest in an alps switch tester.
Agreed. I'm certainly interested in finished and available clones.

Offline taylorswiftttttt

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 16 April 2017, 18:39:50 »
removed
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 November 2022, 19:48:10 by taylorswiftttttt »

Offline tkim

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 11:09:10 »
Heya, update everyone. Svatech has been a really big help by mailing two of his loose ALPS switches; Brown and SKCL Green. If you wanna help me with some cash, I may setup a GoFundMe page. Should I do this?

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I don't want to be a negative nancy however I really doubt you will be getting much in the form of liquid donations from the community.

You can see that people are already questioning the feasibility of specifications and potential upgrades. As mentioned earlier if you are truly serious about this endeavour considerable planning will be required and as suggested earlier anecdotal evidence suggests it took Matias 2 years to come up with his design and this was a derivative of "simplified".

I wish you the best on this endeavour and if you can provide tangible results towards a PoC then you can probably consider crowdfunding.


Offline dante

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 11:53:36 »
Heya, update everyone. Svatech has been a really big help by mailing two of his loose ALPS switches; Brown and SKCL Green. If you wanna help me with some cash, I may setup a GoFundMe page. Should I do this?

Sent from my SM-S120VL using Tapatalk

I don't want to be a negative nancy however I really doubt you will be getting much in the form of liquid donations from the community.

I would also like to add that Matias recently updated their switches to have much less wobble.  Maybe give those a try to see if new switches are even necessary?

I've read at least two people state that if you can't afford Blue Alps or don't want to deal with cleaning them then Matias Clicky's are good enough.

Offline Vladimir

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 17:16:53 »
My biggest concern is about intellectual property issues with Matias (who bought the patent from Alps).
 
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Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 17:40:37 »
Wait, what patent? I want to see that!
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Offline Vladimir

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 19:50:17 »
Sorry, I actually got the wrong history. Instead of buying the patent, they made something different.

Quote from: Edgar Matias
We were forced to design our own switches when Fuhua decided they didn't want to sell the original ALPS switches anymore. They'd be threatening to stop selling them for years, so we took them at their word and just did our own.
The main goal was to ensure the survival of our Tactile Pro keyboard, which would've died without those switches. It also gave us the opportunity to try some other things..
For example, transparent housing allowed us to have a status LED right on the key. Previously we had to use a clone switch for this, but it felt different from the others, so we actually had customers returning the keyboard because they thought that switch was defective. The transparent switches allowed them all to be the same — problem solved.
This design also allows us to support RGB backlighting — something Cherry recently copied with their Cherry MX RGB switches. :-)

The Alps patents I could find:

Switches:
https://www.google.com/patents/US3899648 (expired?)
https://www.google.com/patents/US4146767 (expired?)
https://www.google.com/patents/US4153829 (expired?)
https://www.google.com/patents/US4514608 (invalid)
https://www.google.com/patents/US4642433 <<<<<<<<<<<<< THIS
https://www.google.com/patents/US4760225 (invalid)
https://www.google.com/patents/US5010219

Apple Keyboard:
https://www.google.com/patents/US6164852 (invalid)
https://www.google.com/patents/US6179500 (invalid)
https://www.google.com/patents/US6597343 (invalid)


Stabilizer?:
https://www.google.com/patents/US4771146
https://www.google.com/patents/US4830526

Double-shot keycap:
https://www.google.com/patents/US5120920 (invalid)

External Numpad:
https://www.google.com/patents/US20030112159

I added some just for curiosity.
I was quite surprised by the fact that Alps come up with the buckling spring before IBM...
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 April 2017, 14:14:37 by Vladimir »
 
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Offline Puddsy

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 23:47:38 »
those patents are neat
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Offline merlin64

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 18 April 2017, 10:37:10 »
This was just posted on Reddit. Apparently Outemu has Alps mount switches that look like they're in a cherry housing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/663gqm/anyone_got_an_idea_as_to_what_brand_these_blue/

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 18 April 2017, 11:49:55 »


At least now it increases the available range of dodgy Alps mount keycaps, because that's just what we all wanted, amirite?
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Offline merlin64

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 19 April 2017, 12:55:34 »
It's for those who have an exorbitant stash of Alps keycaps but not enough Alps boards. LOL

I figure if Outemu can figure out how to do that, it might be worth a try to ask them if they can do the other way around.

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 19 April 2017, 16:31:35 »
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Offline merlin64

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 19 April 2017, 17:32:22 »
Wow good find. Now let's replicate it. We might be able to create a quick mockup with 3d printing the slider and a top case?


Looks like Hua Jie is still in business. Headquartered in Taoyuan (close to the airport in Taiwan) but manufacturing is in China.

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 19 April 2017, 17:40:52 »
They're still around. Most of the AK series is gone, though -- if you want new keyboard switches, you'd be better off talking to someone like Kailh.

i-Rocks have created such a switch though, seemingly with alps.tw's involvement -- all the information is in Chinese and I can't read it. Basically it's a multi-prong type (like Alps.tw Type T9), damped, and with a Cherry MX keystem.

Making the case is a doddle. The hard part is tuning all the metal parts to build up the force curve precisely from start to finish. That's the issue with the clone types -- they're often far too stiff, and the force curve is too pointy.
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Offline Vladimir

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 19 April 2017, 17:57:18 »
Something like this, you mean? https://deskthority.net/wiki/Hua-Jie_AKF_Cherry_MX_mount

Nice!
But as the wiki says, it was never produced and the manufacter doesn't have any info about it.
"The switch may be a sample for a product that was not sold, or a sample of a custom switch batch that was not used in a commercially available product "
We can't even have a sample to know its specifications.

On the other hand, Hua-Jie website shows some Alps clones, which is nice.
https://goo.gl/BtnpMx
« Last Edit: Wed, 19 April 2017, 18:08:38 by Vladimir »
 
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Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 19 April 2017, 18:06:19 »
I wrote that page ;-)

According to Himake when I contacted them back in ~2013, the entire of AK series as it was had gone end of life. The only types still sold were AK-CN2 (2) and AK-DN2 (2), which are virtually identical to Xiang Min KSB-C and KSB-N; everything else is gone. I only got samples of AK-CN2 (2) and AK-DN2 (2), and a small photo showing everything about AK-CN2 except the critical part: the mould numbering.

They spoke barely any English, so I never got much out of them, which is why I've always been so eager to get a fluent Chinese speaker involved in talking to some of these companies. A Chinese speaker could potentially take this research much further. They also seemed somewhat unwilling to talk.

Confusingly you've found more pages that show the red switch, yet if you read all the details, there is no red switch! The red one has been found in the wild in keyboards, but so far we don't know what's inside of it, and whether it would appear to be part of AK-CN2/DN2 series (10 M lifetime) or AK-C5/D5 series (5 M lifetime). The last time one showed up, was in an Ortek keyboard in California (local collect only) on Craigslist (probably still there) and Ortek tended to use the switches with smaller parts, suggestive of AK-C5.


By comparison, the new i-Rocks switch really is in production and has the Cherry MX stem that people want.
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Offline Vladimir

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Re: The Possibility of SKCM Alps Clones
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 19 April 2017, 18:40:13 »
Well then, Hua-Jie doens't seem like an option, unfortunately.

And about i-rocks:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/i-rocks-keyboard-joy-fun-and-alps-traditions-diy-computer#/
Wow, their project made less than $600 out of the $80.000 they needed.
It was a mistake not doing it internationaly. They've understimate their own idea.

Well, for whoever wanted, there's some1 selling on ebay (for $140):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/I-ROCKS-Illuminated-Mechanical-Game-Brick-Keyboard-Led-Embedded/201779705947

Anyway, their solution is not good enough. Basically because (if I'm not wrong) they seem to be based on Simplified Alps.
It does looks nice though.

So...
Back to square one?
« Last Edit: Wed, 19 April 2017, 18:48:00 by Vladimir »
 
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