The best cherry switch for touch typing.

[Quark]

I'm moments away from putting in an order for a Cherry g80-3494 from a wholesaler here in Australia.

It will be my first all Cherry built board.

My question is this, for the purposes of very fast touch typing, which type of switch (Cherry only) would you get and why?

I type very fast all day long and prefer to bottom out my keys, in a fairly heavy handed fashion.  My current work horse is a Microsoft Ergo 4000 and it has a fairly rubbish key action being rubber dome, but I have to say I love that board.... very well designed, even though it has the large space bar that gives many people the willies.

It's very difficult to figure out the best choice and I am unable to go and try any of these switch types out because of my remote location (I live about 300Klms away from one of the most isolated city's in the world, so we don't have any good computer retailers near us that would stock such things).

So once again I am appealing to you people to steer me in the right direction.

Thanks heaps guys and gals!

[Matt3o]

It's very hard to reply to your question, it's all down to personal preference. For touch typing maybe you want tactile feedback, so cherry blue might be the best option, but you'll get replies from people saying that reds are good as well (relaxing typing on reds, but they are very very light)

Matias is releasing a new keyboard with modified ALPS http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=32769.0 , you way want to wait for some feedback about that. Also if you are used to rubber dome have a look at the Topre keyboards which are domes on steroid.

[Velma]

i value fast typing over any other factor when i buy keyboards and ive gotta say that once you learn to float/touch type browns(dont button out on keystrokes), theyre the fastest ones for me at least, and ive tried every cherry MX switch except whites and greens. however the feedback feels much less prominent than in blues so blues have a shorter learning-curve if you wanna learn how to float type on mech boards, maybe it would be worth buying a cheap blue board like the one from razer and get used to utilizing the tactile bump and then get a CM or filco with browns? thats what i did when i switched from reds to tactile for typing purpose.

browns are some of the lightest cherry keys (it can vary much on what board you get though, my ducky shine with browns felt like clears, heavier to push down) and theyre tactile, so its very ease to reach the activation point with just a small tap of the finger, but theyre also very easy to bottom out due to their lightness and (imo) small tactile bump.

[tp4tissue]

i value fast typing over any other factor when i buy keyboards and ive gotta say that once you learn to float/touch type browns(dont button out on keystrokes), theyre the fastest ones for me at least, and ive tried every cherry MX switch except whites and greens. however the feedback feels much less prominent than in blues so blues have a shorter learning-curve if you wanna learn how to float type on mech boards, maybe it would be worth buying a cheap blue board like the one from razer and get used to utilizing the tactile bump and then get a CM or filco with browns? thats what i did when i switched from reds to tactile for typing purpose.

browns are some of the lightest cherry keys (it can vary much on what board you get though, my ducky shine with browns felt like clears, heavier to push down) and theyre tactile, so its very ease to reach the activation point with just a small tap of the finger, but theyre also very easy to bottom out due to their lightness and (imo) small tactile bump.

I think you have some misconceptions about "fast typing"

Not bottoming out the key is not conducive to "faster typing"

At best, a technique that applies minimal force would reduce fatigue.

The reason "not" bottoming out would not increase speed, is because the time it takes to press and actuate keys is FAR less than the time it takes to mentally "parse" the word into chunk-ed finger movements.

Ultimate speed is not limited by technique, rather it is limited by your parsing capacity.

I've been trying to break 130wpm for quite a while 

[Alessandro]

You can touch type on any switch. I've been able to do it on blacks! It's all down to personal preference.

[swagpiratex]

Coming from someone who types 120 WPM, you'd do best on browns or reds. (This is not taking into account any of your typing preferences). Its just that the speed potential for these two types are the highest.

[trax]

Coming from someone who types 120 WPM, you'd do best on browns or reds. (This is not taking into account any of your typing preferences). Its just that the speed potential for these two types are the highest.

How is a brown switch faster than a blue switch?

I honestly believe blue switches are the fastest because of the double feedback.

[swagpiratex]

Takes more force to actuate. If you train yourself to use the prior key as a spring to the next key, then that variable comes into play. The double feedback then becomes a double uncertainty, which limits your ability to parse phrases to get to that next level of speed.

[trax]

Takes more force to actuate. If you train yourself to use the prior key as a spring to the next key, then that variable comes into play. The double feedback then becomes a double uncertainty, which limits your ability to parse phrases to get to that next level of speed.

True, a brown switch takes 5g less force then a blue switch and the actuation point is (according to the graphs on wasd) 0,25 MM earlier.
However, I still believe that most touch typers (not wizards like you, just the ones above average) would benefit more from a MX Blue board.

[Matt3o]

I'm not a professional typist at all, but I discovered --to my surprise-- that I type 5wpm faster on blues than on reds. But I'm at 90wpm. Probably when you go pro reds and browns are better.

[Alessandro]

Reds and browns will always be better at the professional end because reds aren't "too linear" and browns aren't "too tactile".

Both reds and browns are the good middle ground for MX switches as reds are smooth, but not heavy. And browns give the perfect mix of linear smoothness and tactile feedback.

[dorkvader]

Takes more force to actuate. If you train yourself to use the prior key as a spring to the next key, then that variable comes into play. The double feedback then becomes a double uncertainty, which limits your ability to parse phrases to get to that next level of speed.

True, a brown switch takes 5g less force then a blue switch and the actuation point is (according to the graphs on wasd) 0,25 MM earlier.
However, I still believe that most touch typers (not wizards like you, just the ones above average) would benefit more from a MX Blue board.

In theory, the blue is faster, due to to hysteresis. If you were a robot, you'd make up for it with all the double letters (ee, oo, etc.) and the ones on the home row that you can hold just above their actuation point.

In practice, I highly doubt anyone can type that fast, so it would come down to which switch they prefer. I would guess that blues might be good due to their high tactility.

[PointyFox]

Blues are the best for typing.  For gaming, red or black is better.  Black has better feeling than red, but red is good for people prone to wrist injury.

[dorkvader]

Blues are the best for typing.  For gaming, red or black is better.  Black has better feeling than red, but red is good for people prone to wrist injury.

To further exhibit how subjective switch choice is, allow my to submit that I feel that cherry blacks are by far the worst cherry MX switch I've yet tried. I have 2 TG3, 2 access, and 3 WYSE all with blacks, and I can barely stand them.

We really need a spring GB. I'd be willing to buy about 500.

[rowdy]

To further exhibit how subjective switch choice is, allow my to submit that I feel that cherry blacks are by far the worst cherry MX switch I've yet tried. I have 2 TG3, 2 access, and 3 WYSE all with blacks, and I can barely stand them.

We really need a spring GB. I'd be willing to buy about 500.

Despite finding blacks the worst switch out, you have still managed to accumulate 7 (seven) keyboards with black switches.

You, sir, are truely dedicated (or just needed a lot of convincing)

[PointyFox]

His doctors kept prescribing them to build up his wrist strength. 

[Alessandro]

I could call browns the worst switch just just as easily as any of you call blacks the worst, but neither of them are. I like blacks because I'm heavy handed and like the smoothness of them. Lets leave it to personal preference!
As I've said, one can touch type on any switch, I can do it on blacks, none are better then the other.

[PointyFox]

Blues are better since you can more easily "float" above the actuation point, which saves time and energy. Browns lose this advantage at higher WPM.

[Alessandro]

True, the two actuation points of blues do help if you're highly professional or typing at over ~110WPM I'd say.

I'm a relatively slow typer compared to a lot, I can pick up pace a fair bit, but tend to enjoy being more relaxed typing on blacks.

[cactux]

If your coworkers do not mind the click-clack get the blues. But if you really want something silent, get the hhkb pro s ;-)

[tp4tissue]

Takes more force to actuate. If you train yourself to use the prior key as a spring to the next key, then that variable comes into play. The double feedback then becomes a double uncertainty, which limits your ability to parse phrases to get to that next level of speed.

There is no such thing as "double" uncertainty.

When typing at my 130wpm, each parsed keystroke group feels like a single motion.

The only uncertainty comes from when the next word is very similar to the prior word.

The switch makes absolutely NO difference in terms of accuracy, speed or certainty.

[tp4tissue]

Blues are better since you can more easily "float" above the actuation point, which saves time and energy. Browns lose this advantage at higher WPM.

No, floating is slower, think about it. In order to float, you have to essentially practice "slowing down" a keystroke mid-way. Why would you want to do that.

Look at how stenographers type, it's a single depressed motion, and then they let go. you don't stop mid-way.

[Quark]

Blues are better since you can more easily "float" above the actuation point, which saves time and energy. Browns lose this advantage at higher WPM.

No, floating is slower, think about it. In order to float, you have to essentially practice "slowing down" a keystroke mid-way. Why would you want to do that.

Look at how stenographers type, it's a single depressed motion, and then they let go. you don't stop mid-way.

I tend to agree with you here. 

It does beg the question as to why use cherry switches at all for fast typing.....  I need to sit down with a couple of my standard domes and my DAS blue board to try and see if I'm any faster on either one.  When I did this a few months back for a few tests I was consistently faster on the Ergo 4000 but I was sure at the time it was mainly due to it being my daily driver....

The hunt for the fastest keyboard in the known universe continues....

[tp4tissue]

Blues are better since you can more easily "float" above the actuation point, which saves time and energy. Browns lose this advantage at higher WPM.

No, floating is slower, think about it. In order to float, you have to essentially practice "slowing down" a keystroke mid-way. Why would you want to do that.

Look at how stenographers type, it's a single depressed motion, and then they let go. you don't stop mid-way.

I tend to agree with you here. 

It does beg the question as to why use cherry switches at all for fast typing.....  I need to sit down with a couple of my standard domes and my DAS blue board to try and see if I'm any faster on either one.  When I did this a few months back for a few tests I was consistently faster on the Ergo 4000 but I was sure at the time it was mainly due to it being my daily driver....

The hunt for the fastest keyboard in the known universe continues....

LOL, How I wish such keyboard existed, sadly, I doubt the keyboard makes any difference whatsoever.

However the fact that they put the activation point above bottom of the key provides improvement in accuracy, under the assumption that "You will bottom out the Key"