KBT and Keycool quality

[Asis505]

Hello all,

So I'm looking at getting my hands on a smallish backlit mechanical around $100-140 and was enthralled by the looks of the keycool 84 and kbt race.  However today I went to my local retailer and got my hands on a number of mechanicals and noticed that boards from different manufacturers felt greatly different even if they had the same switches.  For instance the Mionix Zibal felt fantastic while a Steelseries (least expensive one I think) was less so.  It was still nice mind you but not as good in terms of perceived build quality and the feel from the keys.

So my question is, are the kbt and keycool any good compared to something like a leopold tenkeyless or a cm quickfire rapid?  I ask since I'd rather have a good quality non lit board than a poor quality lit one.  Also are there any other backlit boards that are higher quality, something from max maybe or one of the upcoming boards like the Ducky Shine 2?

Thanks!

[neuraxis]

The difference between the keyboards you tested was probably the difference between one type of Cherry MX switche and the other, so you should determine which switches you're most comfortable with before choosing between boards, so go back to the Mionix Zibal you tried and look for the switch type.

That being said, the Keycool and KBT line have both been reported to have lesser build quality than the likes of Filco and Cooler Master, but the switches are the same respective Cherry MX variant.

[jeroplane]

A friend of mine has a KBT Race and it looks like it has a decent-enough build quality. Can't vouch for KeyCool, but from what I've seen the build quality is not very good. If you wanted to spend a little more, the Duck Year of the Dragon boards are backlit and quite nice from what I've heard. I'm sure the others around here who own the keyboards mentioned may have a better insight.

[Velma]

The difference between the keyboards you tested was probably the difference between one type of Cherry MX switche and the other, so you should determine which switches you're most comfortable with before choosing between boards, so go back to the Mionix Zibal you tried and look for the switch type.

That being said, the Keycool and KBT line have both been reported to have lesser build quality than the likes of Filco and Cooler Master, but the switches are the same respective Cherry MX variant.

no, he said even if they had the same switches. mionix and steelseries uses the same switch (black)

lots of people are ignorant to the fact that the type of mount can affect different switches very much. plate mounted blacks for example are much, much harder to press down than PCB mounted blacks that feel almost like reds.

razer black widow (plastic mounted blues) are also lighter than plate mounted browns.

[stingrae]

The difference between the keyboards you tested was probably the difference between one type of Cherry MX switche and the other, so you should determine which switches you're most comfortable with before choosing between boards, so go back to the Mionix Zibal you tried and look for the switch type.

That being said, the Keycool and KBT line have both been reported to have lesser build quality than the likes of Filco and Cooler Master, but the switches are the same respective Cherry MX variant.

no, he said even if they had the same switches. mionix and steelseries uses the same switch (black)

lots of people are ignorant to the fact that the type of mount can affect different switches very much. plate mounted blacks for example are much, much harder to press down than PCB mounted blacks that feel almost like reds.

razer black widow (plastic mounted blues) are also lighter than plate mounted browns.

The razer black widow IS plate mounted no idea what plastic mounted is meant to be. I know it has been reported though with several boards with the same switches feeling different.

In terms of quallity the safest bet is always a cm storm quick fire rapid if you can't afford/warrant a filco. However keycool looked pretty decent from reviews and would be more like a quick fire rapid in a leopold case, since that is what it seems to be (odd spacebar and costar stabilizers).

[neuraxis]

no, he said even if they had the same switches. mionix and steelseries uses the same switch (black)

lots of people are ignorant to the fact that the type of mount can affect different switches very much. plate mounted blacks for example are much, much harder to press down than PCB mounted blacks that feel almost like reds.

razer black widow (plastic mounted blues) are also lighter than plate mounted browns.

Ah, my mistake. I overlooked the part about the keyboards the OP tried having the same switches. And yeah, the type of mount is what I was going to mention next, and then the type of keycaps.

[Velma]

The difference between the keyboards you tested was probably the difference between one type of Cherry MX switche and the other, so you should determine which switches you're most comfortable with before choosing between boards, so go back to the Mionix Zibal you tried and look for the switch type.

That being said, the Keycool and KBT line have both been reported to have lesser build quality than the likes of Filco and Cooler Master, but the switches are the same respective Cherry MX variant.

no, he said even if they had the same switches. mionix and steelseries uses the same switch (black)

lots of people are ignorant to the fact that the type of mount can affect different switches very much. plate mounted blacks for example are much, much harder to press down than PCB mounted blacks that feel almost like reds.

razer black widow (plastic mounted blues) are also lighter than plate mounted browns.

The razer black widow IS plate mounted no idea what plastic mounted is meant to be. I know it has been reported though with several boards with the same switches feeling different.

In terms of quallity the safest bet is always a cm storm quick fire rapid if you can't afford/warrant a filco. However keycool looked pretty decent from reviews and would be more like a quick fire rapid in a leopold case, since that is what it seems to be (odd spacebar and costar stabilizers).

actually, i own a BW and i have unplugged it and looked in side out of curiousity as to why the keys feel different from other blues, and it seems like even though the board uses plate for base, the switches are mounted on a sheet of "soft" plastic. So even though its a plate based board, the keys arent really plate mounted.

[FoxWolf1]

The difference between the keyboards you tested was probably the difference between one type of Cherry MX switche and the other, so you should determine which switches you're most comfortable with before choosing between boards, so go back to the Mionix Zibal you tried and look for the switch type.

That being said, the Keycool and KBT line have both been reported to have lesser build quality than the likes of Filco and Cooler Master, but the switches are the same respective Cherry MX variant.

no, he said even if they had the same switches. mionix and steelseries uses the same switch (black)

lots of people are ignorant to the fact that the type of mount can affect different switches very much. plate mounted blacks for example are much, much harder to press down than PCB mounted blacks that feel almost like reds.

razer black widow (plastic mounted blues) are also lighter than plate mounted browns.

The razer black widow IS plate mounted no idea what plastic mounted is meant to be. I know it has been reported though with several boards with the same switches feeling different.

In terms of quallity the safest bet is always a cm storm quick fire rapid if you can't afford/warrant a filco. However keycool looked pretty decent from reviews and would be more like a quick fire rapid in a leopold case, since that is what it seems to be (odd spacebar and costar stabilizers).

actually, i own a BW and i have unplugged it and looked in side out of curiousity as to why the keys feel different from other blues, and it seems like even though the board uses plate for base, the switches are mounted on a sheet of "soft" plastic. So even though its a plate based board, the keys arent really plate mounted.

Wouldn't that still count as plate-mounted, but just with a plastic plate rather than a metal plate?

[dorkvader]

actually, i own a BW and i have unplugged it and looked in side out of curiousity as to why the keys feel different from other blues, and it seems like even though the board uses plate for base, the switches are mounted on a sheet of "soft" plastic. So even though its a plate based board, the keys arent really plate mounted.

I would say it's plastic plate mounted. This isn't a new idea (Unfortunately), as I believe the keypot/vivanco KPT-84 is also mounted on a plastic plate. There's that one tenkey as well.

[FoxWolf1]

actually, i own a BW and i have unplugged it and looked in side out of curiousity as to why the keys feel different from other blues, and it seems like even though the board uses plate for base, the switches are mounted on a sheet of "soft" plastic. So even though its a plate based board, the keys arent really plate mounted.

I would say it's plastic plate mounted. This isn't a new idea (Unfortunately), as I believe the keypot/vivanco KPT-84 is also mounted on a plastic plate. There's that one tenkey as well.

Add my MicroConnectors D07-135TNG to the list as well...so-called "plate" made out of Happy Meal Toy-grade plastic. Though I guess that's to be expected, given the very low price.

[swagpiratex]

I'm kind of curious about what others have to say about KBT and Keycool too. Isn't KBT Taiwanese made?

Still kind of on the fence about these asian mini-layout type boards because it'd be hard to find custom keycaps that fit for them.

I'm finding it difficult to stomach the >$150 price for the Ducky YOTD, lol. Probably just going to tuck away $200 over the course of a month, and still decide whether I want to shell out the cash or not.

[newtrekemotion]

It was my understanding that the only real quality issue with the KBT boards is the LEDs dying early. Maybe I don't lurk enough and missed some other quality issues though..

[Velma]

actually, i own a BW and i have unplugged it and looked in side out of curiousity as to why the keys feel different from other blues, and it seems like even though the board uses plate for base, the switches are mounted on a sheet of "soft" plastic. So even though its a plate based board, the keys arent really plate mounted.

I would say it's plastic plate mounted. This isn't a new idea (Unfortunately), as I believe the keypot/vivanco KPT-84 is also mounted on a plastic plate. There's that one tenkey as well.

Add my MicroConnectors D07-135TNG to the list as well...so-called "plate" made out of Happy Meal Toy-grade plastic. Though I guess that's to be expected, given the very low price.

its not necessarily bad though, as the "plastic plate" mounted blues on the BW are much lighter than other blue boards. Some people might prefer that over the stiffer plate-mounted versions.

[swagpiratex]

Yea, I think I'm going to stay away from the KBT after reading the problems pop up on the RACE preorder page.

[BoxWithADot]

I just bought a KBT Race with MX Blues and I can say that the build quality is fine, though the backspace feels a little stiff. It's not a heavy keyboard, but it's PCB mounted so I wasn't expecting it to be. I am also having issues with the LED under the Q key, as it is dimmer than the rest. Other than that, I really like the layout, though it has some strange keys that will be a hassle to get keycaps for (the function row keys are very tall, esc key is large, left shift is tiny). Hopefully I wont have any more LED issues, but I'm not holding my breath after looking at other peoples reports.

[Asis505]

Wow you guys are amazing! So the race may be out thanks to the leds being a tad suspect, is there any way to easily replace them?  Anyone with hands on experience with the keycool want to chime in about the durability?

Also are there any upcoming boards that I should really wait for?

Thanks again!

[Sinzz]

I have a keycool 84, and im not sure what you mean by feel different as I don't know what kind of feel you're talking about. even though my MX blues on my keycool feel more "plasticy" than the MX Blacks of my Ducky, it might just be the fact that they're more clicky. I personally love the feel of my keycool; it has quite a bit of heft to it. It does have a bit of flex, for those who like to flex their keyboard around . It's also the perfect size.

But since it IS a newer keyboard and not many people on the forum have had experiences with it. For all we know, my LEDs could die :knock on wood:. or buttons would stop responding...:again knocks on wood:, BUT SO FAR, I'm super happy with my purchase, even considering getting a MX Black version (if I can find one).

[rh]

I just got my Key Cool 84 Black in color with blue switches today from Qtan.  This is my first mechanical keyboard, but so far I like it a lot.  I don't have anything to compare it to, but it feels very durable and has a good bit of weight to it - I was surprised considering how small it is.  I'm definitely happy with my purchase so far.

[qtan5370]

Well, made in Tai Wan product is better in quality. As far as I can tell, KBT can using the same line with Filco which is top rated line. You pay what you get.

But, key cool is good enough for the price. And, HPE in some point is even better than key cool. The fact is, you might also consider the weight ,that tell you what they have inside. The thick of PCB, frame and if a metal frame attached to it etc.

Anyway, those are all good item, the only "bad" one I consider is noppo (at least for last few round, I put them off now) and BW(no worth for the price).

[WhiteFireDragon]

actually, i own a BW and i have unplugged it and looked in side out of curiousity as to why the keys feel different from other blues, and it seems like even though the board uses plate for base, the switches are mounted on a sheet of "soft" plastic. So even though its a plate based board, the keys arent really plate mounted.

Ah so this is why it feels a little lighter to press down. I always wondered about this but could't quite figure it out. Good to know for my next build . Is the plate full plastic or is it still a metal plate but coated with plastic?

[squarebox]

Didn't like the keycool at all. Feels cheap, poorly designed and has a spacebar which is a blasphemy. The only good thing is it's cheap.
For that price range, much better quality keyboards are out there. Such as Cooler Master Quickfire Rapid.

[tp4tissue]

Wow you guys are amazing! So the race may be out thanks to the leds being a tad suspect, is there any way to easily replace them?  Anyone with hands on experience with the keycool want to chime in about the durability?

Also are there any upcoming boards that I should really wait for?

Thanks again!

You can replace the leds, but good luck getting a color /size match.

[tp4tissue]

Didn't like the keycool at all. Feels cheap, poorly designed and has a spacebar which is a blasphemy. The only good thing is it's cheap.
For that price range, much better quality keyboards are out there. Such as Cooler Master Quickfire Rapid.

There is no better quality keyboard compared to the coolermaster quickfire rapid in that price range, seriously best $50 I ever spent.

We should have a worship thread about the quickfire rapid.

The highlighted text makes no sense. LOL, blasphemy is a none, i guess maybe blasphemous might work, but i'm not sure it works with space bar, but but, i get what you're trying to say.

[boredgunner]

We better hope this comes true and a tenkeyless board is among them...

[qtan5370]

I agree that if you can get a  coolermaster quickfire rapid for $50, no one can beat it of course.  Coolermaster quickfire rapid also made by same vendor as Filco, really nice keyboard.

But, in most place, it is sold around 90 dollars.

[raisinbun]

I guess I am lucky, I have 2 Races and 1 Pure, none of their LEDs has gone dim after 4-5 months. This includes the one that has been on for 90% of the time since I bought it this March.

Granted some of the LEDs on my KBTs have been switched the moment I got them, including "Q" on all 3 of them.

[squarebox]

Didn't like the keycool at all. Feels cheap, poorly designed and has a spacebar which is a blasphemy. The only good thing is it's cheap.
For that price range, much better quality keyboards are out there. Such as Cooler Master Quickfire Rapid.

There is no better quality keyboard compared to the coolermaster quickfire rapid in that price range, seriously best $50 I ever spent.

We should have a worship thread about the quickfire rapid.

The highlighted text makes no sense. LOL, blasphemy is a none, i guess maybe blasphemous might work, but i'm not sure it works with space bar, but but, i get what you're trying to say.

What I meant was Keycool uses a proprietary spacebar keycap/stabilizer spacing similar to Leopold which limits your choice of mods and I consider that a blasphemy or product suicide.

[tp4tissue]

I guess I am lucky, I have 2 Races and 1 Pure, none of their LEDs has gone dim after 4-5 months. This includes the one that has been on for 90% of the time since I bought it this March.

Granted some of the LEDs on my KBTs have been switched the moment I got them, including "Q" on all 3 of them.

Congratulations, But it's not if it'll dim, it's WHEN... I hate living with that looming in the future.... 

[tp4tissue]

Didn't like the keycool at all. Feels cheap, poorly designed and has a spacebar which is a blasphemy. The only good thing is it's cheap.
For that price range, much better quality keyboards are out there. Such as Cooler Master Quickfire Rapid.

There is no better quality keyboard compared to the coolermaster quickfire rapid in that price range, seriously best $50 I ever spent.

We should have a worship thread about the quickfire rapid.

The highlighted text makes no sense. LOL, blasphemy is a none, i guess maybe blasphemous might work, but i'm not sure it works with space bar, but but, i get what you're trying to say.

What I meant was Keycool uses a proprietary spacebar keycap/stabilizer spacing similar to Leopold which limits your choice of mods and I consider that a blasphemy or product suicide.

I'm wasn't trying to correct you, not trying to be a smart ass, everyone here must know that my keyboard barf is epic foul.

[newtrekemotion]

So I got my Race with MX Whites yesterday (I'll probably start a thread about that soon, but I want to get some better pics first). I've been slightly disappointed with the build quality of the case (though maybe I can get one of those nice aluminium cases to fix that issue), the caps have been great. Since this is the PBT version with the Whites, there are no LEDs to worry about dying. The caps are awesome, and I found it a bit funny that there is still a light on the CapsLock key, but no way to shine throuh. Compared to Leopold, Das (two that I own) or CM (at least the Costar boards) you might find those to be better. There seems to be a lack of "established" brands doing the whole backlighting thing. With the notable exception of Deck! If you really want a backlit TKL there is the Deck 82. It is at the top of your price range. Also. there have been some talks of a backlit WASD, but I don't know if that would be TKL. One  thing that might be worth mentioning is that it seems as though more companies are coming to mechanical keyboards from other areas in (CM, Cosair, come to my mind) so maybe we'll see some more product diversification.

[FoxWolf1]

So I got my Race with MX Whites yesterday (I'll probably start a thread about that soon, but I want to get some better pics first). I've been slightly disappointed with the build quality of the case (though maybe I can get one of those nice aluminium cases to fix that issue), the caps have been great. Since this is the PBT version with the Whites, there are no LEDs to worry about dying. The caps are awesome, and I found it a bit funny that there is still a light on the CapsLock key, but no way to shine throuh. Compared to Leopold, Das (two that I own) or CM (at least the Costar boards) you might find those to be better. There seems to be a lack of "established" brands doing the whole backlighting thing. With the notable exception of Deck! If you really want a backlit TKL there is the Deck 82. It is at the top of your price range. Also. there have been some talks of a backlit WASD, but I don't know if that would be TKL. One  thing that might be worth mentioning is that it seems as though more companies are coming to mechanical keyboards from other areas in (CM, Cosair, come to my mind) so maybe we'll see some more product diversification.

So how are the white switches? (Or do I have to wait for the thread to know that?)

[newtrekemotion]

So how are the white switches? (Or do I have to wait for the thread to know that?)

Awesome so far! I don't have it with me since I left it at home today. I'll do some more comparision tonight/this weekend, but it really feels like my clears and blues had a kid. I also love that it is so much quieter than the blues. Personally, I don't mind the noise of the blues, but I don't want to annoy those around me (at home or otherwise). There was a discussion once some time ago about the difference in resistance in Blues and Browns, where the Browns feel like they are "harder" because the stem is in contact with the edge of the housing more. So the fricition is making a difference.
So if you look the stem is going down without the clicky-part causing friction.



But on clears  (or any of the non-clicky keyboards really)

The friction exists the entire time. I can't say with certainty that this is the case, but it seems as though it is what is happening here.

I think I'll be able to make a better comparision between Blues/Clears/Whites when I take my Leopold home tonight and have them all side-by-side to compare.

[raisinbun]

So I got my Race with MX Whites yesterday (I'll probably start a thread about that soon, but I want to get some better pics first).

The whites (called cream white in Chinese) are fun to type on, but not to my taste lol.

[spiralsc2]

How are the KBT keycaps? they look amazing oo