Holy crap the old Unix layout is genius

[daerid]

After using the HHKB for a few days, it feels soooo wrong reaching so far for backspace. I was blown away by how useful replacing CapsLock -> Control was, but now I'm just floored at how easy it is on my fingers having backspace above the enter key.

Seriously, why did PC makers decide to change this layout? It doesn't really make any sense

[schizrade]

Would be great to have one, but not for $300.

[asura]

Seriously, why did PC makers decide to change this layout? It doesn't really make any sense

Because they didn't.  Backspace on a standard keyboard, is where it is/was on typewriters.  You see, way back when, backspace was a little used key, it didn't delete anything, it simply moved the head back one space - hence backspace.  Equally there was no delete key for obvious reasons.  In the same way QWERTY was designed to reduce the clashing of arms, it's not the best/fastest layout, it's just what inertia has stuck us with.

[noons]

Agreed it would also drive me insane as I currently have a tenkeyless at work and home, so having a HKKB layout in the mix would constantly mess me up.

[tp4tissue]

My current layout is even more genius........ It's pure awesome... Not even sure if I should divulge it, because it's that awesome

[rknize]

Moving backspace would drive me crazy.  I always make caps lock Ctrl, though.  I almost never use the caps lock feature.

[iMav]

The HHKB layout is pure genius.  I prefer it over all other layouts (aside from, perhaps, my Kinesis...which is really married to the contoured design).

On a standard layout keyboard, I feel like I am missing functionality compared to the HHKB.  The HHKB layout and function layer are THAT WELL DESIGNED.

[metalliqaz]

I don't think I could live without dedicated arrow keys

[Neo.X]

If only the HHKB can have the feature that you press FN + somekey to enable and disable arrow keys, like what Poker has, that would be perfect.

It's not convient to hold fn key while you are pressing the arrow keys.

[longweight]

If only the HHKB can have the feature that you press FN + somekey to enable and disable arrow keys, like what Poker has, that would be perfect.

It's not convient to hold fn key while you are pressing the arrow keys.

Do you have one?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

… but now I'm just floored at how easy it is on my fingers having backspace above the enter key.

To me there is a certain irony in having a layout that allows for easier correction of typing errors ;-) One would like to believe that the existing layout should be more than adequate for the amount of mistakes that people should be making. (Notwithstanding the hypocrisy of me saying this.)

[noisyturtle]

I don't think I could live without dedicated arrow keys

This is pretty much the only thing that really keeps me from buying one. Even when writing or coding I use my arrows all the time.

[rowdy]

On Real Unix you do not need or use arrow keys, you use hjkl to navigate.

Besides, each terminal back in the day sent different codes for arrow keys, if they even had arrow keys, so it was easier just to use alpha commands to navigate

[Findecanor]

Because they didn't.  Backspace on a standard keyboard, is where it is/was on typewriters.  You see, way back when, backspace was a little used key, it didn't delete anything, it simply moved the head back one space - hence backspace.

Not entirely. In the '80's as least, there were many typewriters who had correction tape. There were also electronic typewriters where you typed each line in memory so that it could be edited and it wouldn't be typed to paper until you pressed the Carriage Return key.
Some of these typewriters did indeed have the Backspace key in the "Unix position". It is not that uncommon.

BTW. I am building myself a keyboard in the Unix layout. I have already modified a Phantom ("PHANSI") keyboard plate into a Swedish/Unix layout combination (small left shift and two keys above Backspace) and a custom key set from WASD Keyboards is in the mail. 

[Lanx]

If we're talking layout, i'm going to have to express the love for the kinesis layout as well, i mean a regular keyboard in short could be touch-typed by a monkey, a regular layout doesn't make use of our opposable thumbs, all the thumbs are good for is to thwack, thwack, thwack space bar.

Which if we think about it, is the complete total opposite of console gaming, 80% of all gaming is done with the thumbs.

Kinesis layout makes use of thumbs, come on ppl we're more evolved than a standard layout.

[asura]

I'm afraid what little knowledge of typewriters I have is from my mother who taught business studies back... I don't actually know when, but lets put it this way, after some years of teaching the school bought one (1) electric typewriter which was only for use by the head of the department and kept under lock and key when not being typed upon... I know not of yon correcting tape   sounds like a bad solution to bad typists...

[Burz]

If only the HHKB can have the feature that you press FN + somekey to enable and disable arrow keys, like what Poker has, that would be perfect.

It's not convient to hold fn key while you are pressing the arrow keys.

Agree about the HHKB arrows. I also do not understand why anyone would want totally blank keys on a board that has so many rearrangements and FNs... maybe keeping a keymap printout on your desk is fun?

I don't remember on which board I saw this, but there was a layout with FN right next to the arrow keys so it was natural to hold FN with your thumb while working the arrow keys. This was on a compact layout.

Colemak has got me using CapsLock as Backspace which is great. But I might change to something different like Shift on the CapsLock and Enter keys and Backspace moved to LShift and Enter moved to RShift or RControl.

[iMav]

I am so comfortable with the HHKB layout (including the Fn layer), that mine is blank. 

I am quite used to using the Fn key with the arrows...it is second nature to me.

[daerid]

I'm actually kinda scared that I'm going to give up my RF's in favor of this thing. Plus it has the added benefit of being portable enough to take with you so you don't get tripped up by other standard layouts.

[tobydeemer]

If only the HHKB can have the feature that you press FN + somekey to enable and disable arrow keys, like what Poker has, that would be perfect.

It's not convient to hold fn key while you are pressing the arrow keys.

Agree about the HHKB arrows. I also do not understand why anyone would want totally blank keys on a board that has so many rearrangements and FNs... maybe keeping a keymap printout on your desk is fun?

I don't remember on which board I saw this, but there was a layout with FN right next to the arrow keys so it was natural to hold FN with your thumb while working the arrow keys. This was on a compact layout.

Colemak has got me using CapsLock as Backspace which is great. But I might change to something different like Shift on the CapsLock and Enter keys and Backspace moved to LShift and Enter moved to RShift or RControl.

I've been mapping Ctrl to CapsLock for a long while now, but you just made me go "duh, why not see what other re-mappings might be handy for the workflow?"

[laffindude]

I hate the location of ctrl, since I don't hit it with my pinky but the base of my pinky/palm. I can hit ctrl + ZXCV all faster than if I had to hit it with the pinky in either location. I can see how it is not reachable with palm when you're using a wrist rest. I think backspace would be better served in the caplock location.

[daerid]

I hate the location of ctrl, since I don't hit it with my pinky but the base of my pinky/palm. I can hit ctrl + ZXCV all faster than if I had to hit it with the pinky in either location. I can see how it is not reachable with palm when you're using a wrist rest. I think backspace would be better served in the caplock location.

Idunno, it just seems odd to hit a key with something other than a fingertip.

[tobydeemer]

I hate the location of ctrl, since I don't hit it with my pinky but the base of my pinky/palm. I can hit ctrl + ZXCV all faster than if I had to hit it with the pinky in either location. I can see how it is not reachable with palm when you're using a wrist rest. I think backspace would be better served in the caplock location.

I've actually done this a lot as well, but the problem is that I end up on inconsistent boards. My current daily driver is the SIIG, and it's got a Fn layer key there, as does the ThinkPad, when using standalone. So it ends up being more predictable if I just leave Ctrl in the Caps Lock space- it stays true no matter which machine I'm using, or which keyboard I happen to have hooked up.

Now I'm just curious what I might do with that extra key if I forgo Caps Lock altogether.

[nullstring]

I'd love to get a full size and TKL with this layout.
I need my home keys, but this layout seems so nice.

If I ever do customs, it will be with this layout.
(Layout similar to this:)
http://homepage1.nifty.com/y-osumi/parts/keyboard/sun/sun_type5c.jpg

[Niomosy]

That layout would actually drive me batty.  The \| key is too far away, particularly for my heavy use of the pipe (|) symbol as a Unix admin.  I'm also one of the pinky-Ctrl people.  I actually find the Ctrl key at the Caps lock button uncomfortable for Emacs-style usage (I don't edit in Emacs but use set -o emacs at the command-line).  But hey, congrats if you've found a layout you prefer!

[daerid]

Well, after a few more days of usage, I've found that swapping the backspace and backslash keys is a little straining on my hands. It's actually easier on my hands to hit BS with my right ring finder, rather than with the pinky.

And I must say, there's something magical about the way the Topre keys sound on the HHKB. Much more relaxing and satisfying than on the RF (even the 45g one).

[Chase5delta]

This is awesome

[MissMurd3r84]

This is awesome

What is awesome?

[rowdy]

This is!