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Author Topic: A Realforce to be Reckoned With  (Read 2630 times)

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Offline dewcorps

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A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« on: Fri, 28 December 2012, 14:12:07 »
Heya GH, after a happy two years my Cherry MX Blue Leo is holding up well, but now I think I am ready to take the plunge into Realforce territory. Could anyone link me to a wiki, or give me some idea of how the different weights/versions feel relative to any of the MX or some other form of description?
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Offline daerid

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 28 December 2012, 15:45:23 »
You just gotta take the plunge. The closest thing to a Realforce is probably Ergo Clears, and even then it's still very different
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 28 December 2012, 17:45:09 »
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Offline Polymer

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 28 December 2012, 17:57:13 »
All of the force needed to push down Topre's is right from the start.  So unlike Cherry MX's which will ramp up in force to either get over the bump or ramp up the closer you get to the bottom, Topre Switches require all of the force as soon as you start pushing down..

IMO, it gives the keys a lot of stability..they feel very stable as a result.  It also means you're going to bottom out because as soon as you hit the point where you have pressed hard enough to activate the switch, all of required force just drops out.  If that reminds you of rubber dome it should.  The main difference between it and normal rubber domes are it will feel a lot more stable, bottom out has (IMO) a slightly different feel to it and the way the keys feel when typing gives you this oneness with the keyboard.  Some people think it is too much like a rubber dome...I definitely think it is similar but different...
« Last Edit: Sat, 29 December 2012, 00:21:14 by Polymer »
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Offline daerid

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 29 December 2012, 00:11:00 »
@Polymer: I never put that together, but you're right. I can't help but bottom out on all my Topres, but on my cherry boards it's actually kind of easy. It's SUPER easy on the Unicomp.
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Offline Polymer

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 29 December 2012, 00:26:18 »
Quote from: daerid on Sat, 29 December 2012, 00:11:00
@Polymer: I never put that together, but you're right. I can't help but bottom out on all my Topres, but on my cherry boards it's actually kind of easy. It's SUPER easy on the Unicomp.

Easy to not bottom out on cherry mx switches?  Yes and no...I haven't seen anyone type very fast and NOT bottom out on Cherry MX switches...I think you can casually type and not bottom out...For example, I'm typing this out without bottoming out..but when I go for speed I most definitely bottom out....and have yet to see someone really go their fastest and not bottom out...
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Offline daerid

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 29 December 2012, 01:52:52 »
Well, yeah... kind of easy if you concentrate.
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Offline Polymer

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 29 December 2012, 02:35:29 »
So if you're typing your fastest you don't bottom out?  I've tried...I've seen people falsely claim they do...I've yet to see anyone type really fast and not bottom out....May you minimize how much you bottom out..or you don't bottom out quite as hard as you used to...but when people claim they never bottom I really doubt their claims unless they're slow typers..slow as in sub 90/100..
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Offline daerid

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 29 December 2012, 03:23:15 »
I wouldn't say fast... on my browns I can get up to probably around 50wpm with bottoming out only about 1 out of every 10 strokes. But it requires all sorts of concentration
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Offline iri

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 29 December 2012, 03:50:58 »
Quote from: daerid on Fri, 28 December 2012, 15:45:23
You just gotta take the plunge. The closest thing to a Realforce is probably Ergo Clears, and even then it's still very different
ergo clears are designed for not bottoming out. the bump is very noticeable and no further press is required after a typist feels it. and topre keyboards have their bump in the beginning of the keystroke, unlike clears where it's in the middle of the way, meaning key actuation.
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(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.
-Ray Bradbury

Offline Polymer

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 29 December 2012, 04:44:59 »
I don't think Ergo clears are that way at all.  If anything the added force to actuate increases the chances you'll bottom....Topres have all the force in the beginning and I don't even think it is possible to NOT bottom out on them.
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Offline iri

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 06:32:47 »
well, someone reported it is.
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(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.
-Ray Bradbury

Offline Polymer

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 07:51:20 »
You might be thinking of Clears which require something like 100g to bottom out...Ergo clears will have the bigger bump and then a drop in force because of the weaker spring....
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 10:08:38 »
Quote from: Polymer on Sat, 29 December 2012, 02:35:29
So if you're typing your fastest you don't bottom out?  I've tried...I've seen people falsely claim they do...I've yet to see anyone type really fast and not bottom out....May you minimize how much you bottom out..or you don't bottom out quite as hard as you used to...but when people claim they never bottom I really doubt their claims unless they're slow typers..slow as in sub 90/100..

This is correct...

No one who "doesn't" bottom out can type fast..

now, where does "fast" begin


"At least" 120wpm to qualify for the "Proficient" title,   You're in the 97-99 percentile

"135+" 99.5 percentile.... You're fast.. VERY few reach these speeds as it requires COMPLETE focus, more than one has to do anything else.  As in, if you're typing this fast, you are transcribing, and NOT generating content
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Offline iri

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 15:41:04 »
Quote from: Polymer on Sun, 30 December 2012, 07:51:20
You might be thinking of Clears which require something like 100g to bottom out...Ergo clears will have the bigger bump and then a drop in force because of the weaker spring....
i mean someone said it's possible to not bottom out on a 45g topre.
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(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.
-Ray Bradbury

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 15:47:05 »
Quote from: iri on Sun, 30 December 2012, 15:41:04
Quote from: Polymer on Sun, 30 December 2012, 07:51:20
You might be thinking of Clears which require something like 100g to bottom out...Ergo clears will have the bigger bump and then a drop in force because of the weaker spring....
i mean someone said it's possible to not bottom out on a 45g topre.

of course it's possible, but no one would bother with the effort to monitor...
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Offline Polymer

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 17:37:57 »
Quote from: iri on Sun, 30 December 2012, 15:41:04
Quote from: Polymer on Sun, 30 December 2012, 07:51:20
You might be thinking of Clears which require something like 100g to bottom out...Ergo clears will have the bigger bump and then a drop in force because of the weaker spring....
i mean someone said it's possible to not bottom out on a 45g topre.

I seriously doubt this...Even typing very slow it would take a lot of concentration to do it...Honestly, if your goal is to not bottom out with Topre you don't know what you're doing...
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Offline BlindRAGE606

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 18:04:38 »
Cherries go "Click-Click"
Topres go "Thock-Thock"
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Offline longweight

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 18:16:55 »
Quote from: Polymer on Sat, 29 December 2012, 04:44:59
I don't think Ergo clears are that way at all.  If anything the added force to actuate increases the chances you'll bottom....Topres have all the force in the beginning and I don't even think it is possible to NOT bottom out on them.


It really is possible.
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Offline Polymer

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 19:20:09 »
Quote from: longweight on Sun, 30 December 2012, 18:16:55
Quote from: Polymer on Sat, 29 December 2012, 04:44:59
I don't think Ergo clears are that way at all.  If anything the added force to actuate increases the chances you'll bottom....Topres have all the force in the beginning and I don't even think it is possible to NOT bottom out on them.


It really is possible.

To not bottom out on Topre?  I seriously doubt that...I would love to see it...and with some speed please....
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Offline daerid

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 23:33:14 »
yea it is, especially on the 55g, but not with some speed. I typed this post only bottoming out about 50% of the time (but it took me forever, and I mainly bottomed out on my right hand).
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Offline Polymer

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 30 December 2012, 23:43:49 »
So yeah..it basically is not possible..sure, some keys might not bottom out here and there but the way the the force drops out, you can't react to it you just have to press light enough and slow enough so you're not creating enough force to bottom...

I suppose the lighter the topre switches the easier this might be but certainly when I see people make claims of wanting to not bottom out or not bottoming out on Topres I laugh...
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Offline daerid

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 00:17:37 »
Yeah, it's definitely ridiculous. It's counter-intuitive, even if technically impossible. Part of what makes a Topre switch so awesome is the feel of bottoming out :)
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Offline do_Og@n

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Re: A Realforce to be Reckoned With
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 00:42:29 »
I just bought a Realforce 103U a couple of weeks ago and I've used it maybe a full day. At first it felt like a really nice rubber dome but after an hour or so of typing you start to feel the mechanical side of it. I like my Realforce because it is SUPER quiet and the key actuation happens before you bottom out which was hard for me to get used to while typing on a rubber dome again, but I prefer a more mechanical feel myself. I will say that they are very nice but I can't justify paying up to $300 on a keyboard that isn't a custom tenkeyless Phantom.

If all else fails buy one but make sure you buy one that will allow you to adjust the sensitivity from 35 - 55 grams. If you like it keep it...but if you don't just sell it on ebay for $20 less.
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