Opinion on the best keyboard?

[TotalChaos]

I also explained exactly why the $10 adapters don't work, and why Topre can't just click a finger and make it work.

Seriously, read before you rant.

You said:

If you want Topre and must have PS/2, get an active USB to PS/2 converter.

Active USB to PS/2 converters are all over the internet for under $10.00 and they do not work.

Seriously, read what you wrote before you rant.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Active USB to PS/2 converters are all over the internet for under $10.00 and they do not work.

Seriously, read what you wrote before you rant.

You kidding me?

The $10 doobreys are not active adapters (called converters). They are passive adapters. They're just a plug, a socket and some wires [1]. They don't do anything. The controller in the keyboard does all the work — keyboards that support passive adapters speak both USB and PS/2 and auto-detects how it's connected.

Topre keyboards don't have PS/2 support in the controller. You're asking Topre to completely reprogram their keyboard controller for you.

I did explain all this above.

[TotalChaos]

Just to be clear,
You are saying all these places that are advertising and selling Active USB to PS/2 Adapters for $10.00 are all lying, right?
https://www.google.com/search?q=active+usb+to+ps%2F2+converter&rlz=1C1CHMO_enUS479NL479&aq=f&oq=active+usb+&sugexp=chrome,mod=4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

You are saying that if they were selling what they were advertising that the adapter would have to cost $200.00, right ?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The active converters are for connecting PS/2 keyboards and mice to USB ports on computers. (Note that converter vs adapter is possibly just Desktority terminology — adapter = passive, converter = active. It's confusing, I grant you.)

[metalliqaz]

Who cares about PS/2 anyway???  It's old and busted.  For cripes sakes, even USB 2.0 is getting old.

I own a Realforce, a Leopold, a Filco, a Ducky, as well as made-in-USA oldies (Model M, Alps).  I've used them.  I can say that the highest manufacturing quality is probably IBM, but the Topre is easily superior.

[firebt]

Hahah.  PS/2 is ideal, but yeah it is getting outdated.  I think Full or High-Speed USB is much better anyway at this point, but PS/2 will beat Low-speed, according to Soarer.

[HybridCore]

This is really subjective, so don't just start recommending things randomly.

@OP: Have you tried anything yet? I would say start with a Cherry MX switch just to be safe, preferably the blues or browns. The first time I tried Topre (it was ergonomic key layout though instead of all 45g which I like better so it felt horrible as I play piano and I'm used to even pressure keys, mostly) I didn't like them but started liking them later on when I tried them again.

[firebt]

This is really subjective, so don't just start recommending things randomly.

...this is why we recommend things...and no...we're not doing it randomly.  We're heavily considering his needs and his desires and trying to match it up.  What are you talking about?  And it says OPINION on best keyboard, so we just pointed a few things out. 

[Hyde]

I used to think PS2 is only for NKRO and I would never need that.  But then I tested PS2 vs USB back to back on my Filco, and PS2 do feel faster.

So yes even though it's ever so slightly but PS2 do feel superior and I've switch back to PS2 ever since.

As for Leopold, if they want to sell as many keyboards as possible they should make it compatible to as many things as they can.  Look at PC and Mac, people buy PC because it's cheaper and swapping parts is easily available.

[eth0s]

For your first mechanical keyboard, do it right get a RealForce 87U.  You are crazy not to start with this one:  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se07ewv

Variable weighted keys, black-on-white PBT keycaps that you can actually see in low light, what moar could you want?  This is a great foundation upon which to build a mighty collection.  Oh and the price is phenomenal at $239 (USD).  Don't be surprised if this keyboard changes your life.

I own this keyboard, and it's fantastic.  The only one I like better in my collection is the variable-weighted silent RealForce 87U (in black):  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se170s.

[Neo.X]

Yes, the silent version of 87U rocks.

[daerid]

I can't see the price increase really being justified though.

I'll second the guy who said "do it right and get a RF 87U"

[boost]

Get a filco and mod it to Vintage Blacks

[noxwood]

I'm afraid I thought totalchaos was a troll and looked him up. Nope, not a troll.


I'm not quite sure how I feel about that.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm afraid I thought totalchaos was a troll and looked him up. Nope, not a troll.


I'm not quite sure how I feel about that.

No, he's not a troll. He believes what he's saying. I feel for him — it's hard to find the Goldilocks keyboard. If there was a perfect keyboard I would just buy it and be happy! He's just a bit misguided and lacking in knowledge.

[OrpheusX]

Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 is not the best because it lacks actual cursor keys.  In order to cursor around you must press an additional key.  I find this annoying and antiergonomical.  I found another one called the Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite 2 which has a much much improved layout with real cursor keys.  So I could buy that one but oh wait, they added the cursor keys for me but then they ripped out the beautiful Topre switches and put in a rubber dome over membrane diabolically evil horrifically antiergonomical monster under the hood.

Totally agree with this. Even people who prefer using the Fn + [;'. keys for their cursor needs are accommodated by the Lite 2's layout. I guess you could argue the Pro2 is cooler looking if you go for the minimalist thing but if you are concerned about the board's utility there's no reason to require the extra finger work. I really *really* wish they would add Topre switches to the Lite 2.

[G-Sharp]

I didn't know where to post this, so it's going in here. I got my long awaited HHKB Pro 2 a few days ago and I am now absolutely hooked by the Topre switches.

My previously preferred switch type was the MX Red closely followed by Blues. I don't know how it is possible, but trying the Reds out today after a few days with my HHKB, I cannot stand them any more. The lack of a tactile feedback felt so "suffocating"; it felt like when you have a dry throat and you find it difficult to swallow your saliva. The lack of a tactile confirmation that I have hit a key had me almost clenching my teeth. The funny thing is, I never had such problem moving from the tactile Blue switch to the linear Reds. Like I said, the Reds were my favourite out of the two.

The Blues, although bearable due to the tactility, now feel gritty and plasticy in comparison. What has this board done to me! I was planning on putting together a collection of my favourite keyboards, and now I cannot stand my previous two favourite boards (both Filco's).

It looks like the only way to go for me is Topre from now on, unless Buckling Springs can match their solid feeling that is lacking for me in the Cherrys.

[tp4tissue]

I didn't know where to post this, so it's going in here. I got my long awaited HHKB Pro 2 a few days ago and I am now absolutely hooked by the Topre switches.

My previously preferred switch type was the MX Red closely followed by Blues. I don't know how it is possible, but trying the Reds out today after a few days with my HHKB, I cannot stand them any more. The lack of a tactile feedback felt so "suffocating"; it felt like when you have a dry throat and you find it difficult to swallow your saliva. The lack of a tactile confirmation that I have hit a key had me almost clenching my teeth. The funny thing is, I never had such problem moving from the tactile Blue switch to the linear Reds. Like I said, the Reds were my favourite out of the two.

The Blues, although bearable due to the tactility, now feel gritty and plasticy in comparison. What has this board done to me! I was planning on putting together a collection of my favourite keyboards, and now I cannot stand my previous two favourite boards (both Filco's).

It looks like the only way to go for me is Topre from now on, unless Buckling Springs can match their solid feeling that is lacking for me in the Cherrys.

So you're a rubber domes guy. nothing wrong with that.

[reverkiller]

My personal favorite right now is a Ducky YotD. It is built incredibly solidly, and makes me never want to use another keyboard again. I've never used a Filco, however, so I don't know how much better it would be.

[dachef]

I feel so bad for people that buy a Steel Series or a Razer Black Widow as their first keyboard.  They just didn't know better and didn't know about the other options out their.  Gotta give it to SS and Razer though with their marketing efforts.  You never see Filco or Ducky advertising in Esports or anything.

[Burz]

I suppose I'd be more comfortable with spending dough on a Topre if I could try one first. Many forum members appear to be selling/swapping models with different key weights, and this just adds to the apparent pall of fussiness and dissatisfaction here. There seems to be a pea hidden somewhere under the Topre mattress and I think it may be due to switch factors such as lack of durability (of its tactile qualities) and the overall lack of precision in regards to weight (+/- 20g if I recall one post correctly).

FWIW, it seems no one who got a QuietPro and wrote about it has dissed the MQP's key weighting. In fact, I don't think any reviewer yet has said 'Its not for me' or even fallen short of strong praise. Instead, it is eliciting more of a 'I want this thing in front of me every day from now on' kind of response that is very consistent. On top of that, demand for the MQP has surged past Matias' expectations and there is the fact that having a new key switch engineered in North America come on the market is just plain exciting (keycap aficionados notwithstanding, though I hope that will change).

Cherry-based boards never impressed me very much. I think if their switches had been better then I would have cared back in the 90s when RDs were replacing mechanical: Cherry was too blah and linear, ALPS too noisy (never got to use a rare dampened board) and BS both too fatiguing and too noisy (I used BS for years at work). With the nice tactility and quality of the early RDs, its no wonder mechanical got quickly pushed to the far margins of the market.

So I am dying to try out both the Topre and Matias Quiet switches, but I have an informed hunch the latter will win me over for the long term. My minimum requirement of TKL is the only thing preventing me from buying an MQP at this point, but at least I do have a small ALPS board into which I can put Matias switches for a pittance and a few hours of my time (or I can just wait for Matias' leaked 75% model).

[G-Sharp]

I didn't know where to post this, so it's going in here. I got my long awaited HHKB Pro 2 a few days ago and I am now absolutely hooked by the Topre switches.

My previously preferred switch type was the MX Red closely followed by Blues. I don't know how it is possible, but trying the Reds out today after a few days with my HHKB, I cannot stand them any more. The lack of a tactile feedback felt so "suffocating"; it felt like when you have a dry throat and you find it difficult to swallow your saliva. The lack of a tactile confirmation that I have hit a key had me almost clenching my teeth. The funny thing is, I never had such problem moving from the tactile Blue switch to the linear Reds. Like I said, the Reds were my favourite out of the two.

The Blues, although bearable due to the tactility, now feel gritty and plasticy in comparison. What has this board done to me! I was planning on putting together a collection of my favourite keyboards, and now I cannot stand my previous two favourite boards (both Filco's).

It looks like the only way to go for me is Topre from now on, unless Buckling Springs can match their solid feeling that is lacking for me in the Cherrys.

So you're a rubber domes guy. nothing wrong with that.

I'm a "what feels best to me" kind of guy, and my dissatisfaction with your ordinary rubber-dome keyboards is what lead me to mechanical keyboards in the first place. I don't care what the mechanism is, as long as it is well made and feels solid under my fingers while giving me good feedback and doesn't hinder my productivity. It's just that these Topre's seem to have raised the bar for me in every regard compared to the Cherry's I've tried, and I understand that it is personal preference, but the solid "thock" and buttery smooth key travel as well as the better keycaps have made the switches on my Filco's feel like toys in comparison.

There is a draw back though, and that is the ridiculous price tag, but then there isn't anything else quite like it out there. My wallet sure ain't looking forward to the next time I have an itch for a new keyboard and I've already got my eyes on a Realforce Tenkeyless 55g. 

[jamdox]

The MX switches are like toys, in my limited experience.  Trying out the browns after my scissor/dome apple keyboard, the plasticy bump was appalling.

So I went down to Fry's and tried the various Cherry switches.  I more-or-less fell for the blues, because they are so much crisper than the browns.

But I used to use a buckling spring keyboard, and it has its charms, for sure.  Loud, hard to bottom out, bouncy. And cheap!

It's tough, though, finding the "right" keyboard.  I'd like a backlit one, but almost all the companies put the symbols (the most important part) beneath the number, so they aren't well illuminated.  The ones that do the lettering right are Deck, which only has clear switches in tactile (WHY?) and the new Noppoo.  But the Noppoo isn't Mac-compatible (WHY?).  At least the Ducky has DIP switches...

I tried the Rosewill RK-9100BR and it was fine, to the extent of my knowledge.  There was an issue with the spacebar making a clicking noise, but the switches are mounted to a metal plate and everything seemed in order.  And it's $50 less than the Ducky.  It's out of stock, but it's what I'm looking at.  And I've never understood why the Race/Pokers were so popular... PCB mounted?  ¿Que?

So the best keyboard for me is likely the Rosewill RK-9100.  I may "settle" for the CM Storm QuickTrigger Whatever TKL with the Blues and the backlight that just came out ($90), or "splurge" on a Ducky Shine II.

But these probably aren't the best keyboards for anyone else, in general.  Frankly, listening to some of the gamers, I think they'd be best off just getting a membrane board with NKRO!  So it's hard to think about these issues when the hype gets going.  Hopefully exposure to my "process" will help others formulate theirs.

[Polymer]

I suppose I'd be more comfortable with spending dough on a Topre if I could try one first. Many forum members appear to be selling/swapping models with different key weights, and this just adds to the apparent pall of fussiness and dissatisfaction here. There seems to be a pea hidden somewhere under the Topre mattress and I think it may be due to switch factors such as lack of durability (of its tactile qualities) and the overall lack of precision in regards to weight (+/- 20g if I recall one post correctly).

FWIW, it seems no one who got a QuietPro and wrote about it has dissed the MQP's key weighting. In fact, I don't think any reviewer yet has said 'Its not for me' or even fallen short of strong praise. Instead, it is eliciting more of a 'I want this thing in front of me every day from now on' kind of response that is very consistent.

So I am dying to try out both the Topre and Matias Quiet switches, but I have an informed hunch the latter will win me over for the long term. My minimum requirement of TKL is the only thing preventing me from buying an MQP at this point, but at least I do have a small ALPS board into which I can put Matias switches for a pittance and a few hours of my time (or I can just wait for Matias' leaked 75% model).

It sounds like you do not want to like Topre even before you've tried it...No point in reading about it and then rationalizing reasons you should dislike it. 

I definitely want to try the Matias Quiet as well (have they said they're making a TKL?  If so that would be great).  I have seen a couple of reviews where they weren't impressed by it...But for the most part, I don't care what they thought...If the switches sound right, they feel like Alps switches but with a bit more stability and they're modified to be a bit more reliable..I think that's a great thing.  I'm just waiting for a TKL and hopefully PBT cap version and I'm all over it..

[Burz]

It sounds like you do not want to like Topre even before you've tried it...No point in reading about it and then rationalizing reasons you should dislike it.

Rationalizing involves taking irrelevant excuses and elevating them to the level of a well-supported and accepted position. So the question is whether the consistency and longevity complaints I've read over the past year are irrelevant.

Having paid attention to how most people expend far more mental effort (and verbosity) talking themselves into wanting new things than they do cautioning themselves against reckless spending, I think ruminating on doubts about a $300 keyboard is healthy and warranted.

I want Topre to be good/great because the keyboard market got so bad for a while that having a better keyboard available for just about *any* price is better than nothing. OTOH, it is eminently rational to want to like a $300 product less than one that sells for $150 (or one that was bought for $20 and upgraded for less than $60).

What my thoughts on the matter boil down to is that the more expensive keyboard may not be 'all that', and how glad I am that a (hopefully) well-engineered alternative has shown up at a lower price point.

[Polymer]

Rationalizing involves taking irrelevant excuses and elevating them to the level of a well-supported and accepted position. So the question is whether the consistency and longevity complaints I've read over the past year are irrelevant.

I'm sure some of them are irrelevant..and people ARE picky..especially when they're given options.  People love their keyboard until something else comes along.  They love X color Cherry switch until they get bored and Y is the new favorite color.  Did anything change?  Not really...

And I'm not disagreeing that you would want to like the cheaper one...I would too.  In many ways I think Topres are a bit expensive for what they are...expensive for what you get....and especially if you hadn't tried one, I certainly wouldn't consider dropping 300 on it unless I hated everything else and I was desperate.  OTOH, I do think they represent something quite enjoyable to use and a different experience than what you're getting from most other keyboards...

Anyways, back to the real important part of my post...Did you say Matias is coming out with a TKL Quiet Pro?

[Burz]

Anyways, back to the real important part of my post...Did you say Matias is coming out with a TKL Quiet Pro?

Matias compact bluetooth keyboard at FCC
 

[Polymer]

I'm not sure I want a bluetooth keyboard..but would love to see this cabled and PC .  I actually think the layout is great..

[spacecase]

Excuse me people, cake or pie?

OP: Congratulations you've just masterfully trolled geekhack whether you meant to or not.

For what its worth my favorite after trying Cherry Red, Blue, Brown, Black, Buckling Spring, Topre Variable, Silent Variable, 45g Uniform, and Alps Green is the Topre 45g uniform 87u, Your mileage will vary massively and honestly you're unlikely to find your favorite switches on your first try. I would definitely consider starting with the Cherry MX Blue switches if you don't mind the noise as most people tend to like them. There are better switches for many situations but you might want to learn what you like and don't like first. 

[rowdy]

The cake is a lie!

MX blues are fantastic for typing, and custom keycaps are easy to find.  Blues also work for gaming, if the activation/release point situation does not bother you.

[jamdox]

Mmm, thinking about my experience with the iRocks keyboards, I realized that they were both dusty inside the box; I looked back at my pictures of the inside of the RK-9100 and realized it had dust inside.

So now I'm leaning towards the KeyCool 87... except I'm worried about buying from China in case there's a problem.  Had a horrible experience with a Korean monitor and don't want a repeat...

[Jago]

Topre Realforce all-45g TKL

[TheProfosist]

I feel so bad for people that buy a Steel Series or a Razer Black Widow as their first keyboard.  They just didn't know better and didn't know about the other options out their.  Gotta give it to SS and Razer though with their marketing efforts.  You never see Filco or Ducky advertising in Esports or anything.

bought my 7G long before any other brands were available i believe it was the first mechanical "gaming" board

[FabsSpeed]

Topre Realforce!