I think I am slowly becoming disconnected with reality [any nutritionists?]

[dante]

Since 3/1/13 I've been using the Medifast diet (900-1000 cals/day) to take off some pounds.  So far I have been successful (lost 50lbs) but it might have come at a price.  My dentist has found not 1, not 2, but 3 cavities.  After spending 24 hours on the Internet marinating any possible ways of reverse it I called him the next day to ask him if he wouldn't mind waiting until my next checkup (4 months.)  His detection of these cavities required a computer and it is at the very early stages.

I've found many people online who have been able to reverse the process through the use of oil pulling, cod liver oil, additional flouride, amongst other things.

But here is why I brought you here:

I've done research to indicate that heavy soy foods can cause nutrient absorption issues and it just so happens that soy is in all Medifast products...

So I began investigating "Plan B" - what I would do if I needed to get off of it.  Unfortunately this is where I began to go crazy.

I've investigated every diet out there.  Every diet usually has 2-3 doctors that back it up with tons of supporters who claim dramatic changes in their health, lost weight, etc.  And oh yeah - every opposite diet they have tried has made them feel like garbage.

What has worked for me on Medifast is I like the MRE concept: I'm a terrible cook - have no interest in furthering my skills.  I appreciate the history and culinary techniques that have been passed from generation to generation but it just isn't me.  It's not about laziness: I DON'T LIKE TO COOK.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a Paleo OR Vegan bar or shake mix that:

1) Doesn't include a TON (more than 10g) of carbohydrates.
2) Doesn't include Soy.
3) Includes everything you need in day.

The closest I've been able to come is 12 eggs a day - 6 meals 2 eggs each, 3 hours a part.  That's 840 cals - along with the coconut oil used in the muffin pans that should bump it up to 900 (about what I am on Medifast.)  The vitamins/minerals/fiber would come from high grade quality supplements.

Does GH have any nutritionists who can chime in?  What I'm looking for is the most simple / minimal diet possible irregardless of how well it tastes/satisfies.  I just want to get my daily supply of nutrients in and be done with it.

[tp4tissue]

Sup dante..

I can understand your frustration.

Took me a while to get all the facts straight as well.

Take 2000 calories of the below, in whatever variation you enjoy
Vegetables, Fruits, Protein, Fats


Prohibit all refined sugars.


Do a heavy 30min workout 3 times a week..


Anything more complicated than this is destined to fail, or cause relapse..

[fohat.digs]

Concentrate on the underlying principle of the diet, not simply eating "x" amount of this and "y" amount of that.

The thing that draws me to "paleo" style diet principles is that our ancestors ate fresh, raw, unprocessed food - and nothing else.

Add at least a few fresh, raw, unprocessed items to your daily diet and will will do yourself a big favor.

How about a grapefruit at breakfast, a few leaves of lettuce or spinach at lunch (dressed simply), an apple mid-afternoon, and at least a couple of carrots at dinner, in addition to whatever else you are eating? That would be pretty easy and only costs a couple of dollars.

Fluoride is good for teeth because it lays down a microscopically thin layer of crystals that get incorporated into the enamel, but once the enamel is eroded away, there is nothing for them to attach to.

[tp4tissue]

You will feel severe cravings for refined sugar products on a paleo diet..

A large loaf of bread might look like the most beautiful thing in the world.


Aim to remove the temptations by getting rid of them in your immediate vicinity.


There are going to be people that tell you to go running, or take up biking or other assorted complicated activity driven diets...

Don't bother with any of that, because they're much too time consuming, and the motivation will wane too quickly for them to be sustainable in the long term.

[mkawa]

flouride and good hygiene are the only things that have been clinically shown to reverse and reverse the growth of tooth softening and cavity incidence. rinse with ACT every day and reduce bacterial load in your mouth by brushing 2x day and flossing every night. all the major brand motor-driven toothbrushes have been shown to be clinically more effective than OH toothbrushes at reducing bacterial load.

source: best friend is a practicing dentist and dental instructor.

[dante]

Thanks for everyones info; it was helpful.

Perhaps some day we will be able to undergo some sort of DNA scan to figure out what nutrients we need to concentrate on and which not to overdose.

Thinking back on my previous comment on paleo vs. vegan vs. everyone else - perhaps it's not the main staples of each diet that made everyone feel better but the processed garbage that they excluded.  Most Vegetarians/Vegans may feel better not because they gave up meat but some of the processed crap got excluded.

Since I've been doing coconut oil pulling in the early AM my cravings for carbs has ceased to exist (won't know how well it works for dental until later).  Go ahead and put a burrito, piece of cake, or freshly baked loaf of bread in front of me and I'll LOL at you.  I really don't have any interest in that garbage anymore.

[tp4tissue]

Thanks for everyones info; it was helpful.

Perhaps some day we will be able to undergo some sort of DNA scan to figure out what nutrients we need to concentrate on and which not to overdose.

Thinking back on my previous comment on paleo vs. vegan vs. everyone else - perhaps it's not the main staples of each diet that made everyone feel better but the processed garbage that they excluded.  Most Vegetarians/Vegans may feel better not because they gave up meat but some of the processed crap got excluded.

Since I've been doing coconut oil pulling in the early AM my cravings for carbs has ceased to exist (won't know how well it works for dental until later).  Go ahead and put a burrito, piece of cake, or freshly baked loaf of bread in front of me and I'll LOL at you.  I really don't have any interest in that garbage anymore.

Glad you're making ways on this..

Just want to caution you on the carbohydrate addiction...

Heroin addicts NEVER truly quite heroin

The same principle applies here.


You get low, you're hungry, your girlfriend cheats on you.... You try everything to escape short of cocaine, you walk by a store, see a blue-berry pie, the scent reminds you of the comfort and security you felt as a child, in the kitchen as mother took out the baking tray to set on the window sill..

It may be impossible to quit refined carbohydrates, as it has defined not only a significant proportion of our energy intake, but also our "EMOTIONS"


Do not think of it as an enemy, but realize that refined carbohydrates is similar to turbo fuel for your body, and MUST be taken with caution, and "regulated"

heroin addicts will never cease to think and mentally covet heroin,  they only control themselves...

[fohat.digs]

I have heard arguments that most addictions, with the exception of nicotine, are really just subsets of carbohydrate addiction.

Similar arguments say that approximately 15% of the population has dramatically more trouble with carbohydrates than the rest of us.

[Ninjerk]

Sup dante..

I can understand your frustration.

Took me a while to get all the facts straight as well.

Take 2000 calories of the below, in whatever variation you enjoy
Vegetables, Fruits, Protein, Fats


Prohibit all refined sugars.


Do a heavy 30min workout 3 times a week..


Anything more complicated than this is destined to fail, or cause relapse..

^

Great advice.

As for soy heavy products, avoid them as well. As far as I've seen, soy isn't all that healthy. There are better protein sources, even if you are a vegetarian, and many people I know who've gone heavy on the soy develop thyroid problems.

[fohat.digs]

Take 2000 calories of the below, in whatever variation you enjoy
Vegetables, Fruits, Protein, Fats

I think the current consensus is that about a third each of proteins, fats, and unrefined carbohydrates is an ideal mix.

[Malphas]

Macronutrient ratios, etc. are bunk anyway. If you look at various diets from the healthiest cultures in the world, they all vary widely, from like almost exclusively fat-based "eskimo" diets, to Okinawa-esque diet that are primarily carbohydrate based.

The thing they all have in common is calorie restriction and absence of processed foods. So basically, as long as you don't eat too much and don't eat crap you're covered. You can look into it deeper than that if you want but it really doesn't matter all that much.

[tp4tissue]

Take 2000 calories of the below, in whatever variation you enjoy
Vegetables, Fruits, Protein, Fats

I think the current consensus is that about a third each of proteins, fats, and unrefined carbohydrates is an ideal mix.

The only thing I'm "conclusive" about on ratios, is thus:

You NEED sugar

Your body can't handle too much too quickly,

energy sugar spikes + insulin spikes leades to -> temporary diabetic bodily conditions-> reduced immunity-> higher comorbidity such as Heart disease, autoimmune disorders/diseases

Now if your body processes the above track ALL THE TIME, as in throughout your adult life.. we witness it's final demise in acute symptoms of the MILD temporary imbalances..

So what you need is to slow down of whatever sugar you "do" take in.

That is where Protein// Fats// Vegetables come in.

Protein is a separate source of energy from sugar, lowering your requirement for total energy based on sugar, it also contains various micro nutrients that you need.

Fats will slow down the breakdown of any sugar in your stomach thus mitigating the energy/sugar spikes.

Vegetable, this is there for micronutrients such as minerals.. It also performs the physical function of becoming the main component of efficient bowel movements.

AS FAR AS hard-number-ratios,  that is up in the air, no one knows for sure, and it will vary too greatly between people...

Consider the "functions" i've listed above, and based on your body which only you know about, make arrangements.

[gliy]

Take 2000 calories of the below, in whatever variation you enjoy
Vegetables, Fruits, Protein, Fats

I think the current consensus is that about a third each of proteins, fats, and unrefined carbohydrates is an ideal mix.

The only thing I'm "conclusive" about on ratios, is thus:

You NEED sugar

Your body can't handle too much too quickly,

energy sugar spikes + insulin spikes leades to -> temporary diabetic bodily conditions-> reduced immunity-> higher comorbidity such as Heart disease, autoimmune disorders/diseases

Now if your body processes the above track ALL THE TIME, as in throughout your adult life.. we witness it's final demise in acute symptoms of the MILD temporary imbalances..

So what you need is to slow down of whatever sugar you "do" take in.

That is where Protein// Fats// Vegetables come in.

Protein is a separate source of energy from sugar, lowering your requirement for total energy based on sugar, it also contains various micro nutrients that you need.

Fats will slow down the breakdown of any sugar in your stomach thus mitigating the energy/sugar spikes.

Vegetable, this is there for micronutrients such as minerals.. It also performs the physical function of becoming the main component of efficient bowel movements.

AS FAR AS hard-number-ratios,  that is up in the air, no one knows for sure, and it will vary too greatly between people...

Consider the "functions" i've listed above, and based on your body which only you know about, make arrangements.

So you've made a lot of claims
"You will feel severe cravings for refined sugar products on a paleo diet.."
"Anything more complicated than this is destined to fail, or cause relapse.. "
"energy sugar spikes + insulin spikes leades to -> temporary diabetic bodily conditions-> reduced immunity-> higher comorbidity such as Heart disease, autoimmune disorders/diseases"
"So what you need is to slow down of whatever sugar you "do" take in."

Any sources for this stuff, or you just making it up as you go?If you want to speak about your experience thats cool, but if you say things like "this is destined to fail" or broad statements you should have some proof

[tp4tissue]

Take 2000 calories of the below, in whatever variation you enjoy
Vegetables, Fruits, Protein, Fats

I think the current consensus is that about a third each of proteins, fats, and unrefined carbohydrates is an ideal mix.

The only thing I'm "conclusive" about on ratios, is thus:

You NEED sugar

Your body can't handle too much too quickly,

energy sugar spikes + insulin spikes leades to -> temporary diabetic bodily conditions-> reduced immunity-> higher comorbidity such as Heart disease, autoimmune disorders/diseases

Now if your body processes the above track ALL THE TIME, as in throughout your adult life.. we witness it's final demise in acute symptoms of the MILD temporary imbalances..

So what you need is to slow down of whatever sugar you "do" take in.

That is where Protein// Fats// Vegetables come in.

Protein is a separate source of energy from sugar, lowering your requirement for total energy based on sugar, it also contains various micro nutrients that you need.

Fats will slow down the breakdown of any sugar in your stomach thus mitigating the energy/sugar spikes.

Vegetable, this is there for micronutrients such as minerals.. It also performs the physical function of becoming the main component of efficient bowel movements.

AS FAR AS hard-number-ratios,  that is up in the air, no one knows for sure, and it will vary too greatly between people...

Consider the "functions" i've listed above, and based on your body which only you know about, make arrangements.

So you've made a lot of claims
"You will feel severe cravings for refined sugar products on a paleo diet.."
"Anything more complicated than this is destined to fail, or cause relapse.. "
"energy sugar spikes + insulin spikes leades to -> temporary diabetic bodily conditions-> reduced immunity-> higher comorbidity such as Heart disease, autoimmune disorders/diseases"
"So what you need is to slow down of whatever sugar you "do" take in."

Any sources for this stuff, or you just making it up as you go?If you want to speak about your experience thats cool, but if you say things like "this is destined to fail" or broad statements you should have some proof

Question 1.. Do you have abs

Question 2.. How much exercise do you do to maintain them


My answer to Q1, YES,  Q2, 30mins 3x week.


Now... If you can do what I do, with LESS work involved, then you should post it..


The comorbidity claims related to consumption is already well researched and documented..


DIET claims are always broad, because everyone is very different.. I can only give blanket statements as I've done.. If anyone tells you, you need exactly 187g of protein per day.. they're truly the ones making **** up.

[Grim Fandango]

Hey Dante !
I think diets are so complicated. It feels like the more I look into them, the less I end up knowing.

I am pretty happy that from a young age, my mom made sure we had a good idea of which foods are good and which are bad. What portions are too large and what is too little. Because of it, I have a pretty healthy relationship with food that does not involve any extensive mathematics or require me to read any books. I also do not have to stick to any diets, that is, my normal diet is actually pretty ok.

I found that focusing on diet alone is a painful way to get in shape. I am a cyclist (or a runner if the wheather does not allow it), which keeps me from ever becoming really heavy. But I also find that if weight would become a problem for me, it would be more likely that I would follow a stricter training regimen than that I would start counting the calories.

A friend of mine struggled with his weight. He also tried diets and told me things about food I had no idea of. Still, the diets did not work for him. It may sound cocky, but I feel he would be better off if he tried my advice. When it comes to food, use common sense. Your mom taught you, you know. When it comes to exercise, do it. But not only do it half-assed. Find something you like and go for it. Think of yourself as an athlete, set goals etc. The worst excuse people have is that they have no time. I do most of my exercise saturday and sunday mornings before 10 AM. I understand that this is hard to do if you are busy, but in the end you will end up having more energy instead of less.

Sorry, i know this does not really contribute to the topic. I just sometimes feel that losing weight becomes an obstacle because people tend to overcomplicate things. Even though the basics of it are really obvious. The most important thing, that is typically not covered in a diet because of their temporary nature, is that you need to change your everyday life, the things you do and the things you eat. Do it right, and it wont drain energy and make you feel miserable like so many diets do, but you will feel more energetic and stronger. If at all possible, do not weaken, but empower. I do not believe you have to feel miserable  to reach your goals. I also think that the common approach, like getting healthier involves some kind of torture, would not be the right one for me personally.

[fohat.digs]

Exercise is more important than diet.

You can carry a few extra pounds if you are sufficiently strong and active.

Bottom line is balance: calories in = calories out and there is no getting around it.

Metabolism differs, 2 people of exactly the same size can eat exactly the same food and one gains weight and the other does not.

After years of recommending "x" number of minutes walking or other mild exercise a few times a week, new research is demonstrating that shorter bursts of much more vigorous exercise is more effective.

Do what you can - anything is better than nothing.