Author Topic: Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.  (Read 2803 times)

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Offline Fragil1ty

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Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.
« on: Sun, 28 July 2013, 14:04:03 »
I don't want to get repetitive but, I made a post a week or two back now and I advised people of my situation, to those unaware, I have a problem with key bouncing on my keyboard (the noppoo choc mini).

I read up a little bit and found out that this problem is occured by one of two reasons:

Hairs stuck in the keys / dirty keyboard

or

Those desired switches are indeed broken and need re-soldering or whatever.

-------------

So to cut a long story short, I completely dismantled my keyboard, picture below and I cleaned it thoroughly, I used a very fine brush, I got rid of every piece of dirt, every hair and then I put it all back together, but I've come to notice today that the problem is still happening, it is much, much less frequent than before but it still happens occasionally on the space bar, w, e and s keys, so obviously there is a problem or two on my board and this is causing my typing (coding) to suffer along with my heavy gaming needs.

The best course of action in my opinion is to just buy a whole new keyboard right? or am I  just jumping to conclusions?

If so, is this a realiable source to buy from: http://www.focalgadgets.com/white-noppoo-choc-mini-84-usb-nkro-mechanical-keyboard-cherry-mx-red-black-brown-switch-pbt-key-cap.html

And the image:

 

Also! what is a good alternative to the Noppoo Choc Mini, it needs to be around the same size, tenkeyless, have the functionality that I currently have and be within the same price point and furthermore, it must be available in mx red cherry keyswitches. 

Kind regards,
Daniel

你搞砸了

Offline BlueBär

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Re: Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 28 July 2013, 14:19:27 »
Check if the solder looks alright. If unsure, post pictures. Open the "broken" switches and check if there is dirt inside the switch (you will have to desolder the switches for this, so check the soldering job on it first). This shouldn't happen but is a possibility. Compare with functioning switch insides to see if anything looks broken.

An alternative 75% board is the KBT Race. However the backlit variant tends to have issues with the LEDs, so maybe get a non-backlit one. Another possibility is the keycool 84, I don't really know anything about that board though, heres a review of it.
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 July 2013, 14:22:02 by BlueBär »

Offline Fragil1ty

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Re: Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 28 July 2013, 14:56:30 »
Check if the solder looks alright. If unsure, post pictures. Open the "broken" switches and check if there is dirt inside the switch (you will have to desolder the switches for this, so check the soldering job on it first). This shouldn't happen but is a possibility. Compare with functioning switch insides to see if anything looks broken.

An alternative 75% board is the KBT Race. However the backlit variant tends to have issues with the LEDs, so maybe get a non-backlit one. Another possibility is the keycool 84, I don't really know anything about that board though, heres a review of it.

Wow that keyboard, the Keycool Grey Version 84 looks absolutely delicious, although it's slightly more expensive than the noppoo, it looks to have every feature apart from the media keys, which I don't really care about wow.

I'm going to wait til the reds come back in stock and order this one, thank you very much! :) This review is great too, props to you good sir.
你搞砸了

Offline BlueBär

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Re: Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 28 July 2013, 15:13:06 »
This not my review, just found it in the review subforum. There are a few more reviews of it there if you're interested. If you get to 60 posts you could sell that Choc Mini in the classifieds for spare parts or some cheap switches to get some money back.

Offline eth0s

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Re: Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 28 July 2013, 15:41:05 »
All electronic signalling switches have signal bounce, it's a law of physics.  The solution to signal bounce has to happen at the engineering design level, in the design of the switch, and the programing of the keyboard controller, and the design and construction of the PCB.  Every person who designs a keyboard knows (or should know) about signal bounce.  Since you have thoroughly cleaned your keyboard, you have eliminated dirt and hair as a factor (and proven that it is not user error).  So the problem is most likely a manufacturing defect in the PCB or the controller.  If the switches are authentic Cherry switches, they are probably not the problem (it is highly unlikely that 4 or 5 Cherry switches have all gone bad at the same time).  However, in China there are counterfeit Cherry switches, so who knows what you actually got.  But basically I think you got a bad keyboard that does not eliminate signal bounce due to a defect in the PCB or the controller. 

The answer is to get a different keyboard. 

I think you might want to get a more reputable keyboard that has a decent warranty like a Leopold or a Filco. 

For $99, you cannot go wrong with this Leo with MX reds: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rrab.  I have this Leo FC200R, and it's really great.  You can save $20 by buying a cheaper keyboard, but you have already seen what can happen with that option. 

A better choice is to go with a capacitive switch like the Topre, which is a completely different (and IMHO a superior) engineering solution to signal bounce.  However, it will cost you three times as much.  However, if you like MX reds, then you will absolutely LOVE a variable weighted silent Topre RealForce, like this one:  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se070s.  Only problem is that it will cost you $265.  However, you are getting one of the best keyboards in the world, with a great warranty. 

If you want 60% form factor, and want to spend $260, then go with the HHKB Pro 2:  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400w.  Either keyboard is great. 

Now, I know you said you want to spend around $80, so why am I telling you to spend three times that amount?  Because I have learned over time that spending the money up front will actually save you money and frustration over the long term.   Just get the best in the beginning, and you will save a lot of money you would have otherwise spent climbing the learning curve.  Profit from my experience, please.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 28 July 2013, 15:47:20 »
All electronic signalling switches have signal bounce, it's a law of physics.  The solution to signal bounce has to happen at the engineering design level, in the design of the switch, and the programing of the keyboard controller, and the design and construction of the PCB.  Every person who designs a keyboard knows (or should know) about signal bounce.  Since you have thoroughly cleaned your keyboard, you have eliminated dirt and hair as a factor (and proven that it is not user error).  So the problem is most likely a manufacturing defect in the PCB or the controller.  If the switches are authentic Cherry switches, they are probably not the problem (it is highly unlikely that 4 or 5 Cherry switches have all gone bad at the same time).  However, in China there are counterfeit Cherry switches, so who knows what you actually got.  But basically I think you got a bad keyboard that does not eliminate signal bounce due to a defect in the PCB or the controller. 

The answer is to get a different keyboard. 

I think you might want to get a more reputable keyboard that has a decent warranty like a Leopold or a Filco. 

For $99, you cannot go wrong with this Leo with MX reds: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rrab.  I have this Leo FC200R, and it's really great.  You can save $20 by buying a cheaper keyboard, but you have already seen what can happen with that option. 

A better choice is to go with a capacitive switch like the Topre, which is a completely different (and IMHO a superior) engineering solution to signal bounce.  However, it will cost you three times as much.  However, if you like MX reds, then you will absolutely LOVE a variable weighted silent Topre RealForce, like this one:  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se070s.  Only problem is that it will cost you $265.  However, you are getting one of the best keyboards in the world, with a great warranty. 

If you want 60% form factor, and want to spend $260, then go with the HHKB Pro 2:  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400w.  Either keyboard is great. 

Now, I know you said you want to spend around $80, so why am I telling you to spend three times that amount?  Because I have learned over time that spending the money up front will actually save you money and frustration over the long term.   Just get the best in the beginning, and you will save a lot of money you would have otherwise spent climbing the learning curve.  Profit from my experience, please.

what about if an ultra THIN metal rod was inserted into a liquid conductor.

Offline Fragil1ty

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Re: Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 28 July 2013, 16:21:54 »
All electronic signalling switches have signal bounce, it's a law of physics.  The solution to signal bounce has to happen at the engineering design level, in the design of the switch, and the programing of the keyboard controller, and the design and construction of the PCB.  Every person who designs a keyboard knows (or should know) about signal bounce.  Since you have thoroughly cleaned your keyboard, you have eliminated dirt and hair as a factor (and proven that it is not user error).  So the problem is most likely a manufacturing defect in the PCB or the controller.  If the switches are authentic Cherry switches, they are probably not the problem (it is highly unlikely that 4 or 5 Cherry switches have all gone bad at the same time).  However, in China there are counterfeit Cherry switches, so who knows what you actually got.  But basically I think you got a bad keyboard that does not eliminate signal bounce due to a defect in the PCB or the controller. 

The answer is to get a different keyboard. 

I think you might want to get a more reputable keyboard that has a decent warranty like a Leopold or a Filco. 

For $99, you cannot go wrong with this Leo with MX reds: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rrab.  I have this Leo FC200R, and it's really great.  You can save $20 by buying a cheaper keyboard, but you have already seen what can happen with that option. 

A better choice is to go with a capacitive switch like the Topre, which is a completely different (and IMHO a superior) engineering solution to signal bounce.  However, it will cost you three times as much.  However, if you like MX reds, then you will absolutely LOVE a variable weighted silent Topre RealForce, like this one:  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se070s.  Only problem is that it will cost you $265.  However, you are getting one of the best keyboards in the world, with a great warranty. 

If you want 60% form factor, and want to spend $260, then go with the HHKB Pro 2:  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400w.  Either keyboard is great. 

Now, I know you said you want to spend around $80, so why am I telling you to spend three times that amount?  Because I have learned over time that spending the money up front will actually save you money and frustration over the long term.   Just get the best in the beginning, and you will save a lot of money you would have otherwise spent climbing the learning curve.  Profit from my experience, please.

Wow man, thank you for taking the time to write this very informative, lengthy post, I will be sure to look at these keyboards, obviously the HHKB is out of my price range, but I shall definitely look into the Leo, thank you once again.
你搞砸了

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 28 July 2013, 16:23:27 »
check the solder on the controller if there are no cracks.

swap out the switch

 If you do all that and it still chatters...  Buy a new keyboard...

Offline eth0s

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Re: Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 28 July 2013, 18:10:12 »
All electronic signalling switches have signal bounce, it's a law of physics.  The solution to signal bounce has to happen at the engineering design level, in the design of the switch, and the programing of the keyboard controller, and the design and construction of the PCB.  Every person who designs a keyboard knows (or should know) about signal bounce.  Since you have thoroughly cleaned your keyboard, you have eliminated dirt and hair as a factor (and proven that it is not user error).  So the problem is most likely a manufacturing defect in the PCB or the controller.  If the switches are authentic Cherry switches, they are probably not the problem (it is highly unlikely that 4 or 5 Cherry switches have all gone bad at the same time).  However, in China there are counterfeit Cherry switches, so who knows what you actually got.  But basically I think you got a bad keyboard that does not eliminate signal bounce due to a defect in the PCB or the controller. 

The answer is to get a different keyboard. 

I think you might want to get a more reputable keyboard that has a decent warranty like a Leopold or a Filco. 

For $99, you cannot go wrong with this Leo with MX reds: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rrab.  I have this Leo FC200R, and it's really great.  You can save $20 by buying a cheaper keyboard, but you have already seen what can happen with that option. 

A better choice is to go with a capacitive switch like the Topre, which is a completely different (and IMHO a superior) engineering solution to signal bounce.  However, it will cost you three times as much.  However, if you like MX reds, then you will absolutely LOVE a variable weighted silent Topre RealForce, like this one:  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se070s.  Only problem is that it will cost you $265.  However, you are getting one of the best keyboards in the world, with a great warranty. 

If you want 60% form factor, and want to spend $260, then go with the HHKB Pro 2:  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400w.  Either keyboard is great. 

Now, I know you said you want to spend around $80, so why am I telling you to spend three times that amount?  Because I have learned over time that spending the money up front will actually save you money and frustration over the long term.   Just get the best in the beginning, and you will save a lot of money you would have otherwise spent climbing the learning curve.  Profit from my experience, please.

what about if an ultra THIN metal rod was inserted into a liquid conductor.

As a means of tamping electronic signal fluctuation?  I think you are thinking of physical vibration, which is a different engineering problem. 
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Offline dadgh

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Re: Noppoo Choc Mini - Follow up.
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 28 July 2013, 20:07:40 »
Did you try the debounce settings? Fn+F9/F10/F11 or whatever? I can't remember exactly the combination since I don't have my stock keycaps anymore.