Knock knock - Who's there? Deck Hassium and Francium

[jonjonjon]

the funny thing is i ordered a shine but it was out of stock so i had them cancel the order. i ended up deciding i would rather have the pro with pbt keycaps instead of backlighting. if i could have gotten both in 1 keyboard i would have been really happy.

[Linkbane]

I think you need to take a couple steps back and calm down. Nowhere in his posts was he rude, he was simply expressing his opinion about Ducky. It sounds like you're being overly defensive about the keyboard because you own one.

That's not the case, I'm just annoyed that he would say something like that while citing nothing. If someone said that about the MAX or one of WASD's keyboards, I would defend it the same way.

the funny thing is i ordered a shine but it was out of stock so i had them cancel the order. i ended up deciding i would rather have the pro with pbt keycaps instead of backlighting. if i could have gotten both in 1 keyboard i would have been really happy.

Nice choice. 

[Polymer]

Shines are, IMO, pretty generic.  I like what Ducky is doing in general though.  Thick PBT, some different things w/ switches...In general I think they're great and doing a lot of stuff.  Still waiting for them to do a TKL w/ Thick PBT though..and maybe an Aluminum case all in one . 

[Linkbane]

Shines are, IMO, pretty generic.  I like what Ducky is doing in general though.  Thick PBT, some different things w/ switches...In general I think they're great and doing a lot of stuff.  Still waiting for them to do a TKL w/ Thick PBT though..and maybe an Aluminum case all in one .

The Yellow has a TKL version (I'm using it now, in fact), with everything but the aluminum case. If you can stand the brightness (I like it personally, haha) of the colors, you might enjoy it. I believe that MK has the four common switches in TKL/fullsize and blank/engraved.

[Polymer]

Yeah...I know they have a TKL version but I want it with their Thick PBT rather than the painted ABS caps...I don't really care about LEDs...I just think good brand + tkl + thick PBT is a good combination...and the fact that Ducky uses a standard layout with standard stem spacing is good...

[Linkbane]

Heh, their Yellow edition does have thick PBT, don't you know?

[rowdy]

Heh, their Yellow edition does have thick PBT, don't you know?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49458.msg1152447#msg1152447

Thick enough for me!

[Polymer]

Heh, their Yellow edition does have thick PBT, don't you know?

Oh I didn't realize they were thick PBT..but laser engrabed?  bleh....

I don't really want a Yellow keyboard either but either way...really close...Quite nice...

[jonjonjon]

Heh, their Yellow edition does have thick PBT, don't you know?

yea but the keycaps are blank and the backlighting looks horrible. looking at videos it seems to light up the entire key. i really want something that just dimly lights the letters. i could have looked past the horrible ugly yellow color and probably would have gotten one if not for those 2 things.

[Linkbane]

yea but the keycaps are blank and the backlighting looks horrible. looking at videos it seems to light up the entire key. i really want something that just dimly lights the letters. i could have looked past the horrible ugly yellow color and probably would have gotten one if not for those 2 things.

I wasn't trying to convince or argue with you; in fact, I was directing my post towards Polymer, who was actually asking about it.

Heh, their Yellow edition does have thick PBT, don't you know?

Oh I didn't realize they were thick PBT..but laser engraved?  bleh....

I don't really want a Yellow keyboard either but either way...really close...Quite nice...

They're quite smooth. Personally, I prefer rougher keycaps like on the Keycool caps, but either way they're definitely quality. Somehow they managed to make it so that backlighting shines through, mostly in a single circular area over the backlight. *more prodding*
Also, the laser engraving is pretty pointless apparently, because it's white colored when the yellow backlighting is on, it's supposed to be rather difficult to read.

I'm definitely not trying to convince you.   

[SpAmRaY]

yea but the keycaps are blank and the backlighting looks horrible. looking at videos it seems to light up the entire key. i really want something that just dimly lights the letters. i could have looked past the horrible ugly yellow color and probably would have gotten one if not for those 2 things.

I wasn't trying to convince or argue with you; in fact, I was directing my post towards Polymer, who was actually asking about it.

Heh, their Yellow edition does have thick PBT, don't you know?

Oh I didn't realize they were thick PBT..but laser engraved?  bleh....

I don't really want a Yellow keyboard either but either way...really close...Quite nice...

They're quite smooth. Personally, I prefer rougher keycaps like on the Keycool caps, but either way they're definitely quality. Somehow they managed to make it so that backlighting shines through, mostly in a single circular area over the backlight. *more prodding*
Also, the laser engraving is pretty pointless apparently, because it's white colored when the yellow backlighting is on, it's supposed to be rather difficult to read.

I'm definitely not trying to convince you.   

but don't smooth caps allow for faster typing?? aerodynamics and rebound and stuff?

i mean why do people shave off all their body hair to be faster swimmers?

[Linkbane]

yea but the keycaps are blank and the backlighting looks horrible. looking at videos it seems to light up the entire key. i really want something that just dimly lights the letters. i could have looked past the horrible ugly yellow color and probably would have gotten one if not for those 2 things.

I wasn't trying to convince or argue with you; in fact, I was directing my post towards Polymer, who was actually asking about it.

Heh, their Yellow edition does have thick PBT, don't you know?

Oh I didn't realize they were thick PBT..but laser engraved?  bleh....

I don't really want a Yellow keyboard either but either way...really close...Quite nice...

They're quite smooth. Personally, I prefer rougher keycaps like on the Keycool caps, but either way they're definitely quality. Somehow they managed to make it so that backlighting shines through, mostly in a single circular area over the backlight. *more prodding*
Also, the laser engraving is pretty pointless apparently, because it's white colored when the yellow backlighting is on, it's supposed to be rather difficult to read.

I'm definitely not trying to convince you.   

but don't smooth caps allow for faster typing?? aerodynamics and rebound and stuff?

i mean why do people shave off all their body hair to be faster swimmers?

Rebound and smoothness are unrelated, the former is completely the switch.  Friction might be a factor, but since you type much faster than I do, I'm sure you'd know better.

[SpAmRaY]

yea but the keycaps are blank and the backlighting looks horrible. looking at videos it seems to light up the entire key. i really want something that just dimly lights the letters. i could have looked past the horrible ugly yellow color and probably would have gotten one if not for those 2 things.

I wasn't trying to convince or argue with you; in fact, I was directing my post towards Polymer, who was actually asking about it.

Heh, their Yellow edition does have thick PBT, don't you know?

Oh I didn't realize they were thick PBT..but laser engraved?  bleh....

I don't really want a Yellow keyboard either but either way...really close...Quite nice...

They're quite smooth. Personally, I prefer rougher keycaps like on the Keycool caps, but either way they're definitely quality. Somehow they managed to make it so that backlighting shines through, mostly in a single circular area over the backlight. *more prodding*
Also, the laser engraving is pretty pointless apparently, because it's white colored when the yellow backlighting is on, it's supposed to be rather difficult to read.

I'm definitely not trying to convince you.   

but don't smooth caps allow for faster typing?? aerodynamics and rebound and stuff?

i mean why do people shave off all their body hair to be faster swimmers?

Rebound and smoothness are unrelated, the former is completely the switch.  Friction might be a factor, but since you type much faster than I do, I'm sure you'd know better.

Yes but I can't give away all my secrets.

[Linkbane]

yea but the keycaps are blank and the backlighting looks horrible. looking at videos it seems to light up the entire key. i really want something that just dimly lights the letters. i could have looked past the horrible ugly yellow color and probably would have gotten one if not for those 2 things.

I wasn't trying to convince or argue with you; in fact, I was directing my post towards Polymer, who was actually asking about it.

Heh, their Yellow edition does have thick PBT, don't you know?

Oh I didn't realize they were thick PBT..but laser engraved?  bleh....

I don't really want a Yellow keyboard either but either way...really close...Quite nice...

They're quite smooth. Personally, I prefer rougher keycaps like on the Keycool caps, but either way they're definitely quality. Somehow they managed to make it so that backlighting shines through, mostly in a single circular area over the backlight. *more prodding*
Also, the laser engraving is pretty pointless apparently, because it's white colored when the yellow backlighting is on, it's supposed to be rather difficult to read.

I'm definitely not trying to convince you.   

but don't smooth caps allow for faster typing?? aerodynamics and rebound and stuff?

i mean why do people shave off all their body hair to be faster swimmers?

Rebound and smoothness are unrelated, the former is completely the switch.  Friction might be a factor, but since you type much faster than I do, I'm sure you'd know better.

Yes but I can't give away all my secrets.

Why would you wast your especially esteemed time asking me questions when you already have all the answers?
OT: Let's stop thread crapping.

[tooki]

These look like such great keyboards, except for the fact that I cannot possibly buy a board with such fantastically hideous legends. What on earth were they thinking?!? 

Why is there nobody out there making sensible PBT keycaps? A well-designed font, sized and placed aesthetically and ergonomically, with clear symbols.

(And c'mon, would it really be so hard to make the three extra molds to make Mac keycap replacement sets? If they can do Tux, they can do Mac.)

They do, they're just rather expensive usually. Ducky makes nice PBT caps with a professional sans-serif font as well as engraved ones on the Yellow Shine 3 (the caps are quite good, I have the blank ones, though). IMSTO also makes good ones, they're just prohibitively expensive to most ($70-90 in different colors), and Vortex has a rather polarizing font, but they are double shot. I like them personally, but they are quite odd. They just made a new font which seems much more agreeable to members, though.

Do you have a link to the new Vortex font? I can't seem to find it.



As far as I know, nobody makes something that meets all of my (admittedly very high) standards.:

- PBT
- double shot
- ideally backlit legends (à la Max Keyboards or Hassium/Francium)
- an attractive and ergonomic font (Max is grudgingly acceptable, Vortex and Deck use key legends that make me vomit into my mouth)
- flat Windows keys -- I detest the glossy dimple
- Mac keycap options (we're talking three essential key molds here. More if you include F13-15.) For non-doubleshot keys, it is baffling to me why this isn't widely available, given the small effort.
- it would be magical if someone made a truly Mac-optimized set that included all 4 characters per key (no modifier, shift, option, and option-shift), as Matias does on its Mac keyboards.
- for keyboards, a Mac-friendly layout -- specifically, the modifier keys to the right of the space bar. Many (like Max) put an Fn key in a key location


So my take on the backlit PBT candidates:
- I was really close to buying a yellow Ducky, but I am not a good enough typist to have blank (or nearly-blank, as on engraved) keys.
- The Max Blackbird puts the Fn key one away from the spacebar on the right, where the Mac's Option key belongs. (Option is a very useful key on the Mac.) Dunno if that can be remapped.
- The Francium would be good, if not for that unspeakably hideous font.


I'm assuming my best shot, realistically, is to give up backlighting and get blank white thick PBT caps and have them custom laser-etched somewhere.

Is this post so long and off-topic that I should make a separate thread?

[Linkbane]

These look like such great keyboards, except for the fact that I cannot possibly buy a board with such fantastically hideous legends. What on earth were they thinking?!? 

Why is there nobody out there making sensible PBT keycaps? A well-designed font, sized and placed aesthetically and ergonomically, with clear symbols.

(And c'mon, would it really be so hard to make the three extra molds to make Mac keycap replacement sets? If they can do Tux, they can do Mac.)

They do, they're just rather expensive usually. Ducky makes nice PBT caps with a professional sans-serif font as well as engraved ones on the Yellow Shine 3 (the caps are quite good, I have the blank ones, though). IMSTO also makes good ones, they're just prohibitively expensive to most ($70-90 in different colors), and Vortex has a rather polarizing font, but they are double shot. I like them personally, but they are quite odd. They just made a new font which seems much more agreeable to members, though.

Do you have a link to the new Vortex font? I can't seem to find it.



As far as I know, nobody makes something that meets all of my (admittedly very high) standards.:

- PBT
- double shot
- ideally backlit legends (à la Max Keyboards or Hassium/Francium)
- an attractive and ergonomic font (Max is grudgingly acceptable, Vortex and Deck use key legends that make me vomit into my mouth)
- flat Windows keys -- I detest the glossy dimple
- Mac keycap options (we're talking three essential key molds here. More if you include F13-15.) For non-doubleshot keys, it is baffling to me why this isn't widely available, given the small effort.
- it would be magical if someone made a truly Mac-optimized set that included all 4 characters per key (no modifier, shift, option, and option-shift), as Matias does on its Mac keyboards.
- for keyboards, a Mac-friendly layout -- specifically, the modifier keys to the right of the space bar. Many (like Max) put an Fn key in a key location


So my take on the backlit PBT candidates:
- I was really close to buying a yellow Ducky, but I am not a good enough typist to have blank (or nearly-blank, as on engraved) keys.
- The Max Blackbird puts the Fn key one away from the spacebar on the right, where the Mac's Option key belongs. (Option is a very useful key on the Mac.) Dunno if that can be remapped.
- The Francium would be good, if not for that unspeakably hideous font.


I'm assuming my best shot, realistically, is to give up backlighting and get blank white thick PBT caps and have them custom laser-etched somewhere.

Is this post so long and off-topic that I should make a separate thread?

A new thread would probably help someone find things for you. IMO, the standards you asked for are too much to expect from any manufacturer because they're rather unnecessary for most people. Sadly there aren't too many Mac users for mechanical keyboards, and your best bet in that regard would probably be an HHKB, which I believe includes a Mac setting. PBT keycaps, no window keys at all, I believe a dye-sublimated font.

Take a look at this page, one of the last posts: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50451.30
Also, I can't view it from school, but on the first post there's a shot of their font.

[tooki]

Thanks for the link. That new font looks great!

As for Mac users not using mechanical: I think that's not true. Granted, there aren't as many Mac gamers (though that's changed a lot since the switch to Intel, with the ability to dual-boot). But I know lots of Mac users who use mechanical keyboards. We just have to live with keycaps that don't match the OS, which is kinda ugly, you know? (Rarely, there are actual compatibility problems, mostly with funky USB implementations of NKRO.) Statistically speaking, Mac users spend a lot more money on computer peripherals and accessories than Windows users, so you'd think there'd be a market for it.

Probably the keyboard manufacturers have no idea how many of their keyboards are used on Macs, because they probably never investigate.

I'm not interested in a HHKB, as I don't want such a compact layout. There are mechanical keyboards out there with Mac keys (Deck, Matias, Unicomp), they just each have some other limitation.

Again, especially for pad-printed or dye-sub keycaps, where an extra key design costs very little to produce, or laser-etched, where the marginal cost is essentially zero, I don't see why companies don't offer sets of replacement keycaps for Mac. I'd love it if Filco sold a $10 keycap set for Mac to replace the handful of keys on my Majestouch.

As for "the standards you asked for are too much to expect from any manufacturer because they're rather unnecessary for most people" -- other than the Mac question, I don't think it's asking too much, and I don't think I'm alone in wanting those features combined in one keyboard. Certainly given how often others seem to ask for the same thing...

[Linkbane]

Thanks for the link. That new font looks great!

As for Mac users not using mechanical: I think that's not true. Granted, there aren't as many Mac gamers (though that's changed a lot since the switch to Intel, with the ability to dual-boot). But I know lots of Mac users who use mechanical keyboards. We just have to live with keycaps that don't match the OS, which is kinda ugly, you know? (Rarely, there are actual compatibility problems, mostly with funky USB implementations of NKRO.) Statistically speaking, Mac users spend a lot more money on computer peripherals and accessories than Windows users, so you'd think there'd be a market for it.

Probably the keyboard manufacturers have no idea how many of their keyboards are used on Macs, because they probably never investigate.

I'm not interested in a HHKB, as I don't want such a compact layout. There are mechanical keyboards out there with Mac keys (Deck, Matias, Unicomp), they just each have some other limitation.

Again, especially for pad-printed or dye-sub keycaps, where an extra key design costs very little to produce, or laser-etched, where the marginal cost is essentially zero, I don't see why companies don't offer sets of replacement keycaps for Mac. I'd love it if Filco sold a $10 keycap set for Mac to replace the handful of keys on my Majestouch.

As for "the standards you asked for are too much to expect from any manufacturer because they're rather unnecessary for most people" -- other than the Mac question, I don't think it's asking too much, and I don't think I'm alone in wanting those features combined in one keyboard. Certainly given how often others seem to ask for the same thing...

I'm telling you what the producer's mentality is. If you'd like to convince yourself that I'm wrong because you're entitled and you know their workings, feel free.

[tooki]

Excuse me?!? That reply is totally uncalled for. Who got your panties in a twist?!?

[Linkbane]

Excuse me?!? That reply is totally uncalled for. Who got your panties in a twist?!?

It's fine if you can't handle the truth.

[MechKB]

Show Image

Since when did you start linking anime cat emoticons? :P

[Linkbane]

Show Image

Since when did you start linking anime cat emoticons? :P

I think you need a word with tp.

[MechKB]

I think you need a word with tp.

Is there a technical name for them?

[rowdy]

I think you need a word with tp.

Is there a technical name for them?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47398.msg1010066#msg1010066

[tp4tissue]

I think you need a word with tp.

Is there a technical name for them?

Top secret....!!!

CPU intensive program...!!!

Overclocking recommended...!!!

[tooki]

Excuse me?!? That reply is totally uncalled for. Who got your panties in a twist?!?

It's fine if you can't handle the truth.

Show Image

Since when is wanting an ideal product a crime? This forum is the last place I'd expect hostility toward someone seeking something better than what's on the market...

[MJ45]

Excuse me?!? That reply is totally uncalled for. Who got your panties in a twist?!?

It's fine if you can't handle the truth.

Show Image

Since when is wanting an ideal product a crime? This forum is the last place I'd expect hostility toward someone seeking something better than what's on the market...

The world can sometimes can be a hostile place with the hostility fired at 150+wpm.

[Linkbane]

Excuse me?!? That reply is totally uncalled for. Who got your panties in a twist?!?

It's fine if you can't handle the truth.

Show Image

Since when is wanting an ideal product a crime? This forum is the last place I'd expect hostility toward someone seeking something better than what's on the market...

I never said it was a crime, I simply told you that it's a naive fantasy.

The world can sometimes can be a hostile place with the hostility fired at 150+wpm.

Oh look, an angry.
Also, if you ever do any writing, using the same word twice as a noun and an adjective can make your sentence seem redundant.

[tooki]

I never said it was a crime, I simply told you that it's a naive fantasy.

Given how close some of the products on the market come to what I want, I think it's neither fantasy nor naïve. There's really no need for you to be condescending.

[Linkbane]

I never said it was a crime, I simply told you that it's a naive fantasy.

Given how close some of the products on the market come to what I want, I think it's neither fantasy nor naïve. There's really no need for you to be condescending.

I'm wasting my own time trying to tell you why it's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Best of luck to you in your misguided journey.

[SpAmRaY]

I never said it was a crime, I simply told you that it's a naive fantasy.

Given how close some of the products on the market come to what I want, I think it's neither fantasy nor naïve. There's really no need for you to be condescending.

I'm wasting my own time trying to tell you why it's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Best of luck to you in your misguided journey.

So much angst. Do you have to make an effort or does it naturally spill out?

[Linkbane]

I never said it was a crime, I simply told you that it's a naive fantasy.

Given how close some of the products on the market come to what I want, I think it's neither fantasy nor naïve. There's really no need for you to be condescending.

I'm wasting my own time trying to tell you why it's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Best of luck to you in your misguided journey.

So much angst. Do you have to make an effort or does it naturally spill out?

I don't know, Spamray. So little originality or meaningful contribution, would you ever try to come up with something yourself?

[SpAmRaY]

I never said it was a crime, I simply told you that it's a naive fantasy.

Given how close some of the products on the market come to what I want, I think it's neither fantasy nor naïve. There's really no need for you to be condescending.

I'm wasting my own time trying to tell you why it's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Best of luck to you in your misguided journey.

So much angst. Do you have to make an effort or does it naturally spill out?

I don't know, Spamray. So little originality or meaningful contribution, would you ever try to come up with something yourself?

I actually help quite a lot around here, you might be surprised at just how original and meaningful I can be but I just do it 40wpm at a time, so I suppose for you that doesn't count.

All I'm saying is why do you have to be such a jerk all the time, it gets old.

[Binge]

This is very old... and in a thread about Deck keyboards of all things.

It's Deck!  Who cares?!

[demik]

lol how odd

[BucklingSpring]

lol how odd

Right... recent posts make Deck's fonts look pretty.

[demik]

lol how odd

Right... recent posts make Deck's fonts look pretty.

this post does make it look pretty!

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=53503.0

[rowdy]

lol how odd

Right... recent posts make Deck's fonts look pretty.

this post does make it look pretty!

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=53503.0

"Asia Pacific Edition of the Deck Hassium Pro" ... "ABS Laser Etched key caps in Helvetica font (but cheaper vs the US editions)."

)