Author Topic: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS  (Read 16154 times)

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Offline esoomenona

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #50 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 13:43:07 »
Spacebar.

I should think that adding compatibility for cherry spacebars should be a priority, as PBT spacebars are easy to come by.

This would require either creating a new Cherry PBT spacebar that has the same stabilizer support as Topre or changing the board somehow to accept Cherry stabilizers.

IMO, we'd be better served pooling money together to have SP build us a PBT Topre spacebar mold and starting shooting.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 13:51:47 »
Spacebar.

I should think that adding compatibility for cherry spacebars should be a priority, as PBT spacebars are easy to come by.

This would require either creating a new Cherry PBT spacebar that has the same stabilizer support as Topre or changing the board somehow to accept Cherry stabilizers.

IMO, we'd be better served pooling money together to have SP build us a PBT Topre spacebar mold and starting shooting.

I don't think this is necessary.....

The new wave of topre-esque boards are incoming... you can bet they'll probably have costar stabilizers :D

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 13:52:24 »
He doesn't need to know you well to judge you by how you act, and it did seem pretty fanboyish.
Really?  :confused: I was trying to be objective. If I was a fanboy, I would have claimed Topre's properties to be superior instead of saying that they "have appeal".

1. You can lube Cherry stems, and they are about the same "quality"
Besides smoothness, I was referring to lack of wiggle. :)

2. You have a much wider variety of keycaps and keycaps of equal or greater "quality" with cherry style stems
Not really. Only if you want a key set in US-ANSI for a Filco/Das/Ducky/QFR are there many new and exciting sets.
Far from all sets include the 1.5u and 1u modifiers that a Topre Realforce or HHKB has.
Cherry MX-compatible keycaps of dye-sub PBT were very rare until quite recently (very expensive vintage G80-xxx Sxx keyboards).
My one Topre keyboard (that I don't use very much because I prefer Cherry MX) is in Swedish layout, but it is practically impossible to find dye-sub PBT keys for Cherry MX in Swedish layout. It took me three years before I found a set of lasered PBT keys for Swedish, and then that set was still incomplete.

* Topre keycaps are textured PBT. The high quality of the keycaps is part of Topre's appeal.
Spacebar.

I should think that adding compatibility for cherry spacebars should be a priority, as PBT spacebars are easy to come by.
Valid point on space bar. However, Topre Realforce and HHKB have 6u Space bars.
I do not know of anyone who makes 6u Cherry space bars in PBT. 7bit offered 6u space bars in ABS, but only with offset key stem for Cherry G80-1800/11x00.

I'm starting to think that the keyboard in the picture is a custom model that copies Topre.
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 October 2013, 14:02:37 by Findecanor »
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #53 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 13:57:53 »
He doesn't need to know you well to judge you by how you act, and it did seem pretty fanboyish.
Really?  :confused: I was trying to be objective. If I was a fanboy, I would have claimed Topre's properties to be superior instead of saying that they "have appeal".

1. You can lube Cherry stems, and they are about the same "quality"
Besides smoothness, I was referring to lack of wiggle. :)

2. You have a much wider variety of keycaps and keycaps of equal or greater "quality" with cherry style stems
Not really. Only if you want a key set in US-ANSI for a Filco/Das/Ducky/QFR are there many new and exciting sets.
Far from all sets include the 1.5u and 1u modifiers that a Topre Realforce or HHKB has.
Cherry MX-compatible keycaps of dye-sub PBT were very rare until quite recently (very expensive vintage G80-xxx Sxx keyboards).
My one Topre keyboard (that I don't use very much because I prefer Cherry MX) is in Swedish layout, but it is practically impossible to find dye-sub PBT keys for Cherry MX in Swedish layout. It took me three years before I found a set of lasered PBT keys for Swedish, and then that set was still incomplete.

I found your post was fanboish because of all the capitalized Topre monikering/ name drop

My stance is.. the problems you listed are quite trivial for any modern engineering team.. I am not disagreeing that your emphasis on the potential problems may happen..

I merely want to say that Topre is not the only people who know how to engineer some keyboard parts... in fact I'd say the topre stabilizers are not as good as costars due to its requirement of higher tolerance parts like the cherry stabilizer..

Whereas the costar stab design can work even with a VERY mis-molded space bar.

Offline esoomenona

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #54 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 13:59:28 »
Spacebar.

I should think that adding compatibility for cherry spacebars should be a priority, as PBT spacebars are easy to come by.

This would require either creating a new Cherry PBT spacebar that has the same stabilizer support as Topre or changing the board somehow to accept Cherry stabilizers.

IMO, we'd be better served pooling money together to have SP build us a PBT Topre spacebar mold and starting shooting.

I don't think this is necessary.....

The new wave of topre-esque boards are incoming... you can bet they'll probably have costar stabilizers :D

Even then, the problem comes down to this: size and availability. There aren't many Cherry PBT spacebars to begin with, let alone those in 6x.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 14:10:40 »
Spacebar.

I should think that adding compatibility for cherry spacebars should be a priority, as PBT spacebars are easy to come by.

This would require either creating a new Cherry PBT spacebar that has the same stabilizer support as Topre or changing the board somehow to accept Cherry stabilizers.

IMO, we'd be better served pooling money together to have SP build us a PBT Topre spacebar mold and starting shooting.

I don't think this is necessary.....

The new wave of topre-esque boards are incoming... you can bet they'll probably have costar stabilizers :D

Even then, the problem comes down to this: size and availability. There aren't many Cherry PBT spacebars to begin with, let alone those in 6x.

say wha.... there are plenty of pbt space bars..... i can go buy one right now...

Offline Linkbane

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 15:37:10 »
Even then, the problem comes down to this: size and availability. There aren't many Cherry PBT spacebars to begin with, let alone those in 6x.

say wha.... there are plenty of pbt space bars..... i can go buy one right now...

Not from Topre you can't.  :D
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 15:39:28 »
We're talking about Cherry PBT spacebars. Where are these PBT spacebars you speak of, tp4?

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #58 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 12:50:48 »
Got a reference for that?

The only photos I've seen of the Noppoo capacitive switch show rubber domes over a double-sided PCB bearing diodes for every switch, suggesting conductive rubber domes, not capacitive. I've never seen the inside of the domes.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #59 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 13:01:53 »
We're talking about Cherry PBT spacebars. Where are these PBT spacebars you speak of, tp4?

well, SP sells the space bars by itself.. But then there's all these ebay pbt sets.. and there's plenty of the original oem profile pbt sets that go for $35-45.... Cherry PBT ap-plenty..

Offline ComradeSniper

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #60 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 13:58:01 »
Spacebar.

I should think that adding compatibility for cherry spacebars should be a priority, as PBT spacebars are easy to come by.

This would require either creating a new Cherry PBT spacebar that has the same stabilizer support as Topre or changing the board somehow to accept Cherry stabilizers.

IMO, we'd be better served pooling money together to have SP build us a PBT Topre spacebar mold and starting shooting.

What's the cost of a new mold? Huge probably, but could we attain it through a gb?

Offline dorkvader

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 16:35:44 »
IMO, we'd be better served pooling money together to have SP build us a PBT Topre spacebar mold and starting shooting.
SP won't even do PBT spacebars for cherry MX, I doubt they'll be interested in spacebars for topre.

I think if you put smaller modifiers on it, and had a bit of a gap on one side, you could probably put a 6.25x spacebar on there, but it's not the optimal solution at all. I mean, i'd be fine with it for a PBT or metal spacebar, but I feel like most topre users want better quality (or at least a better-integrated solution) than that.


What's the cost of a new mold? Huge probably, but could we attain it through a gb?
At least $3,000.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #62 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 16:39:43 »
IMO, we'd be better served pooling money together to have SP build us a PBT Topre spacebar mold and starting shooting.
SP won't even do PBT spacebars for cherry MX, I doubt they'll be interested in spacebars for topre.

I think if you put smaller modifiers on it, and had a bit of a gap on one side, you could probably put a 6.25x spacebar on there, but it's not the optimal solution at all. I mean, i'd be fine with it for a PBT or metal spacebar, but I feel like most topre users want better quality (or at least a better-integrated solution) than that.


What's the cost of a new mold? Huge probably, but could we attain it through a gb?
At least $3,000.

per key? is it "any key"  and can we get exclusive rights to it.. so that over time, if other people buy the space bar, they'd essentially refund us the money slowly...

Offline kelske

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 17:59:58 »
What do you think about the adapter idea I talked about in this thread? http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=28983.0
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Offline 002

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:00:47 »
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjQyNDQ3NjM2.html

03:10 - Removes keycap
05:25 - Bag of spares showing sliders and housings of various colour etc
11:06 - Closeup from under the housing
11:21 - Closeup of slider and looks like silencing washer/band at the base of the slider
12:30 - Closeup of housing with slider
14:30 - Under the board

Offline Linkbane

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:17:15 »
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjQyNDQ3NjM2.html

03:10 - Removes keycap
05:25 - Bag of spares showing sliders and housings of various colour etc
11:06 - Closeup from under the housing
11:21 - Closeup of slider and looks like silencing washer/band at the base of the slider
12:30 - Closeup of housing with slider
14:30 - Under the board

!!
Whoa, where'd you find this?
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Offline demik

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #66 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:18:23 »
so noppoo is going to be CM to the punch?

my biggest question is how will the stabs look. i dont think a full HHKB conversion will work out because of the spacebar

although i hope im wrong
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Offline Pacifist

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #67 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:19:26 »
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjQyNDQ3NjM2.html

03:10 - Removes keycap
05:25 - Bag of spares showing sliders and housings of various colour etc
11:06 - Closeup from under the housing
11:21 - Closeup of slider and looks like silencing washer/band at the base of the slider
12:30 - Closeup of housing with slider
14:30 - Under the board

I got an ad for chinese pizza hut  :p

but noppo got topre now!?!?!

Offline Linkbane

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #68 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:21:23 »
Also would like to mention that the guy in the video mentioned that the keycaps were still POM, like all over Noppoo's other boards.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #69 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:24:56 »
Those are the fake topre switches that were posted a while ago.

Offline bueller

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #70 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:26:05 »
Those are the fake topre switches that were posted a while ago.

Could be good for harvesting though!
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:28:01 »
Those are the fake topre switches that were posted a while ago.

Could be good for harvesting though!

On my phone atm ...but seems like these had an issue that wouldn't allow that...but I don't remember what.

Offline bueller

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:28:58 »
Those are the fake topre switches that were posted a while ago.

Could be good for harvesting though!

On my phone atm ...but seems like these had an issue that wouldn't allow that...but I don't remember what.

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It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #73 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:32:05 »
Those are the fake topre switches that were posted a while ago.
This.

Noppoo capacitive switches have been mentioned in literature for a while. This appears to be an upgraded or slightly modified version of that.

Offline 002

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #74 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:36:51 »
Those are the fake topre switches that were posted a while ago.
This.

Noppoo capacitive switches have been mentioned in literature for a while. This appears to be an upgraded or slightly modified version of that.

These old white slider switches aren't capacitive. I'll confirm it tonight and update the wiki. Im pretty sure they are conductive.

Offline terran5992

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #75 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 22:07:34 »
Those are the fake topre switches that were posted a while ago.
This.

Noppoo capacitive switches have been mentioned in literature for a while. This appears to be an upgraded or slightly modified version of that.

These old white slider switches aren't capacitive. I'll confirm it tonight and update the wiki. Im pretty sure they are conductive.

0.o but do they feel different?

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Offline Canious

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 22:26:19 »
Meh seems like a fluke to me, but if its the real deal i don't think we'll get our hands on it any time soon

Offline Moosecraft

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Re: Topre capacitive BUT with CHERRY STEMS
« Reply #77 on: Sat, 21 December 2013, 10:13:25 »
Very nice, more mx stems for the one and only switch :D
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