Upgrade now or wait??

[Melvang]

Alright guys here is my issue I currently have an older gaming rig specs are as follows

Intel Core i7 2600k Sandy Bridge OC'd to 4.43 on air with 0 problems
Asus P8P67 EVO motherboard
8GB ram (4x2) Corsair part# as reported by CPU-z CMP8GX3M4A1600C8
Nvidia 680 GTX SC+ Signature Edition from EVGA
PC Power and Cooling 950
3 HDD 300GB Raptor, 74GB Raptor (still running from when it was the biggest one), and a 400GB Hitachi (bought around same time as the 74GB raptor)

I want to upgrade my mobo and cpu.  I would like to stick with the same ram as I don't think I need to upgrade that yet due to primarily running Star Wars to Old Republic and don't have much for issues there.  I guess my question is should I upgrade to Haswell or wait for Broadwell?  I haven't been keeping up to date on this as well as I should be and am turning to you guys for at least some newer info than earlier this summer.  The latest issue of Maximum PC covered almost zero on anything Intel.  It was mostly about the new AMD vid cards that are trying to compete with the titans.  I don't feel like I need to upgrade anything else at this point and don't mind waiting a bit for the next release from Intel but would like to upgrade within the next 4 months or so.

Any info in this would be a huge help.

Melvang.

[balanar]

Hmm what kind of resolution are you running? Also, do you want to upgrade or is there something that makes you feel like you need to? If it's the former, I'd suggest holding onto your current system unless you maybe stumble across a super good deal?

[Melvang]

currently running 2 displays one at 1920x1200 and the other is at 1050x1680(portrait mode).  I actually want to upgrade before a part fails and I am completely out on my desktop.  I feel like I need to upgrade because it seems like that is going to be the only way I am going to get USB 3.0 back on my system.  Since I have upgraded to 8.1 they haven't worked but worked flawlessly up until that.  I have tried a lot of different stuff with the one exception of downgrading back to 8.0 which is something I don't really like doing.  I haven't downgraded an OS yet and don't want to start.  Was wondering on the now or wait in terms of upgrade path on current vs next platform.

Also this could very well turn into late christmas early birthday gift ideas for my wife (birthday is end of January).  My budge would probably be up to 450 total between cpu and motherboard.

[ITzNybble]

currently running 2 displays one at 1920x1200 and the other is at 1050x1680(portrait mode).  I actually want to upgrade before a part fails and I am completely out on my desktop.  I feel like I need to upgrade because it seems like that is going to be the only way I am going to get USB 3.0 back on my system.  Since I have upgraded to 8.1 they haven't worked but worked flawlessly up until that.  I have tried a lot of different stuff with the one exception of downgrading back to 8.0 which is something I don't really like doing.  I haven't downgraded an OS yet and don't want to start.  Was wondering on the now or wait in terms of upgrade path on current vs next platform.

Also this could very well turn into late christmas early birthday gift ideas for my wife (birthday is end of January).  My budge would probably be up to 450 total between cpu and motherboard.

Same thing happened to my mobo and external 3.0 ports...I say  if your price range is ~450 I would say go ahead and upgrade now as $450 might not be enough when the next gens come out. I would try and find some deals right after Christmas for a nice MOBO and CPU combo. Nice thing about PC's are you can always upgrade unlike like those nasty next-gen consoles

[domoaligato]

I have basically spec wise the same system. except I have 2x gtx 580's and you have a gtx 680.
have you updated the bios?

P8P67 EVO BIOS 3602
1.Improve system stability.
2.Enhance compatibility with some USB devices.
3.Fixed Nvidia GTX 680 hang when runing with UEFI driver.
4.Support new CPUs. Please refer to our website at: http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us


also have a look at this mouse lag fix for win 8.1
http://www.howtogeek.com/175722/how-to-fix-mouse-lag-in-pc-games-on-windows-8.1/

Do you have USB 3.0 Boost installed? uninstall it...



I do not plan to upgrade for quite a while. sandybridge is fast enough for cs:go which is all I play.

[Melvang]

I have basically spec wise the same system. except I have 2x gtx 580's and you have a gtx 680.
have you updated the bios?

P8P67 EVO BIOS 3602
1.Improve system stability.
2.Enhance compatibility with some USB devices.
3.Fixed Nvidia GTX 680 hang when runing with UEFI driver.
4.Support new CPUs. Please refer to our website at: http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us


also have a look at this mouse lag fix for win 8.1
http://www.howtogeek.com/175722/how-to-fix-mouse-lag-in-pc-games-on-windows-8.1/

Do you have USB 3.0 Boost installed? uninstall it...



I do not plan to upgrade for quite a while. sandybridge is fast enough for cs:go which is all I play.

The only hang I get on boot is the occasional CPU error.  I just glance in the window, see its running and hit F1, Esc, Enter.  Runs like a champ after that.  But I have been having that issue for a while.  Only happens about once every couple months or so. 

I have actually never updated a motherboard bios after hearing horror stories about people basically bricking the board. 

On the mouse lag I don't seem to have any aside from my old Naga which was having the "invisible wall" issue.  Fixed the problem with a new mouse as it was well used anyway and was looking for something heavier and didn't feel like cracking mine open at the time (razer didn't have replacement feet available).  The Naga Epic filled that role.  I just use it wired with the battery in for a bit of extra heft.

I don't think I have USB 3.0 installed.  Well I don't remember installing it.

How would I actually go about updating the bios?

[balanar]

I agree with not updating BIOS unless you have a problem but that said, it is pretty easy nowadays. Reset all BIOS changes to default, download the BIOS version you want from here, save it onto a thumbdrive (FAT32 Formatted), download the bios utilities from the same page and use them to update. The steps should be pretty intuitive from there I think. Only hiccup I can forsee is the renaming of the file and you can avoid that by using the renaming utility provided.


Don't interrupt the updating process once it has begun regardless of how long it appears to take. It might even turn itself off for a bit but will turn back on.

[Melvang]

yeah i did a google search and got it updated.

Side note the video I watched, the guy had to have a mech board.  It made WAY to much noise to be a rubber dome.  It sounded like reds in a very solid case.

Edit:  Updating bios did not fix the issue still digging.

[domoaligato]

The previous bios fixes that you have not applied update the eufi bootloader. This will drastically improve the boot time for win8 and win 8.1. If the bios updates are really not needed then asus would not release them.

[domoaligato]

Is the only issue you really have at the moment your usb 3.0?
is it enabled in the bios? (I turn mine off)

[Melvang]

Is the only issue you really have at the moment your usb 3.0?
is it enabled in the bios? (I turn mine off)

Well I just found the driver for the Renesas USB 3.0 and installed that but now it actually shows the USB 3.0 host controller and the 3.0 Root hub but the 3.0 root hub is showing error code 19.

"Windows cannot start this hardware device because its configuration information (in the registry) is incomplete or damaged. (Code 19)"

[IvanIvanovich]

Try install all correct chipset driver if you have not. It seems like it would be unrelated since usb3 is separate chip, but it helped with my system which have VIA usb3. Make sure to install that with the -overall flag, either start from CMD or make a shortcut and add it. That makes sure all the files are update for sure and don't stick with the MS default drivers.
Seems there is lots of problems still with the Renesas, I see lot of issues with this. Problem with USB3 it's almost this chip every time. I guess they have poor driver or something. Sometimes it works properly if install it in compatibility mode. If it doesn't work I would get an add on card with VIA USB3 for now if you have space for it.

I am holding off on update system core until DDR4 platform. I just don't see there is enough of performance increase to replace everything yet.

[Melvang]

Try install all correct chipset driver if you have not. It seems like it would be unrelated since usb3 is separate chip, but it helped with my system which have VIA usb3. Make sure to install that with the -overall flag, either start from CMD or make a shortcut and add it. That makes sure all the files are update for sure and don't stick with the MS default drivers.
Seems there is lots of problems still with the Renesas, I see lot of issues with this. Problem with USB3 it's almost this chip every time. I guess they have poor driver or something. Sometimes it works properly if install it in compatibility mode. If it doesn't work I would get an add on card with VIA USB3 for now if you have space for it.

I am holding off on update system core until DDR4 platform. I just don't see there is enough of performance increase to replace everything yet.

I have already tried the chipset driver, renesas driver, and a bios flash.  It is enabled in the bios.  I think Ivan is right that it is just a crap driver but both the MS and the Renesas ones don't work.  I even tried running the Renesas driver installer in compatibility mode for windows 8 and 7.  None of it worked.

Do any of you guys know of any add on 3.0 cards with output pins so I can hook up my front panel headers?  This is the main reason i want the USB 3.0 is because that is what is on my front panel.

[IvanIvanovich]

I like Orico USB3 stuff, this card should be good and has VIA chip. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1DS0DV6344 or cheaper less ports version http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1DS0DV6321

[Melvang]

I like Orico USB3 stuff, this card should be good and has VIA chip. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1DS0DV6344 or cheaper less ports version http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1DS0DV6321

Nice looking card.  Would you happen to know of one with the dual port deal so i can plug my monitors 3.0 ports in with the 19 pin internal header for my front panel on the same card?

[IvanIvanovich]

2 internal connections? Like the A type http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=14G-0001-00018

[Melvang]

2 internal connections? Like the A type http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=14G-0001-00018

yeah never mind I was thinking the wrong end of the cable.  That one will work great.  Thanks Ivan, you have once again dropped a knowledge bomb.  Now if I could just figure out where you found that 15x spacebar that you mentioned in the GH 60 thread, that would just be the icing on the cake.

[IvanIvanovich]

Oh I can't remember the make and model of that one with 15x spacebar, only remember it was a terminal keyboard with otherwise very similar to Wyse WY30.

[domoaligato]

There is no offical nec usb 3.0 driver listed on asus website for windows 8.1 you are using a file for windows 7 and it won't work.

[PointyFox]

Every part of my computer is worse than yours except for my SSD; and I can run any new game with decent FPS.  I wouldn't bother upgrading anything other than your HDD to a SSD and your OS to Win 7 if I were you.

[Melvang]

I have installed the 3.0 PCI card ivan and runs like a champ so far on initial test after getting the driver from the company. 

[ninjadoc]

Alright guys here is my issue I currently have an older gaming rig specs are as follows

Intel Core i7 2600k Sandy Bridge OC'd to 4.43 on air with 0 problems
Asus P8P67 EVO motherboard
8GB ram (4x2) Corsair part# as reported by CPU-z CMP8GX3M4A1600C8
Nvidia 680 GTX SC+ Signature Edition from EVGA
PC Power and Cooling 950
3 HDD 300GB Raptor, 74GB Raptor (still running from when it was the biggest one), and a 400GB Hitachi (bought around same time as the 74GB raptor)

I want to upgrade my mobo and cpu.  I would like to stick with the same ram as I don't think I need to upgrade that yet due to primarily running Star Wars to Old Republic and don't have much for issues there.  I guess my question is should I upgrade to Haswell or wait for Broadwell?  I haven't been keeping up to date on this as well as I should be and am turning to you guys for at least some newer info than earlier this summer.  The latest issue of Maximum PC covered almost zero on anything Intel.  It was mostly about the new AMD vid cards that are trying to compete with the titans.  I don't feel like I need to upgrade anything else at this point and don't mind waiting a bit for the next release from Intel but would like to upgrade within the next 4 months or so.

Any info in this would be a huge help.

Melvang.
[/quote

You don't have any reason to upgrade. If you read most of the reviews what you are running will do everything Haswell will do. The only thing is maybe add more memory.
Go to http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5 and peruse to your heart's content. There were a few Haswells for sale in their for sale area if you want to look.


I keep twitching like you do but I can't rationalize upgrading. I'm running an I7 975 at stock clock, 12 GB ram, and a GTX 670 and it does everything I need.

[IvanIvanovich]

Good I am glad that one is working out for you.

[Canious]

Why upgrade now? You have an awesome spec!!  I would wait for the next Nvidia's Maxwell cards

[tp4tissue]

technically... if you upgrade to the 4770k.. .you get almost 15-35% boost in cpu intensive tasks, and all cpu intensive games will have their minimum frame rates up by that much..

it's just a little harder to oc the 4770k because of the de-lidding required to achieve maximum overclock.

[noisyturtle]

Your rig is about on par with mine and I have no issues running any new game released. Honestly, it would be almost pointless to upgrade your CPU right now, but maybe a nice GPU upgrade soon. Personally I'm waiting for the geforce 800 series to release and all should be just fine.

Don't believe the hype, this is a tech forum so of course everyone's going to tell you to upgrade. I'm telling you as a game designer with insider info, you will be just fine for another year at least.

[tp4tissue]

Your rig is about on par with mine and I have no issues running any new game released. Honestly, it would be almost pointless to upgrade your CPU right now, but maybe a nice GPU upgrade soon. Personally I'm waiting for the geforce 800 series to release and all should be just fine.

Don't believe the hype, this is a tech forum so of course everyone's going to tell you to upgrade. I'm telling you as a game designer with insider info, you will be just fine for another year at least.

idk...  all the starcraft and battlefield seem to like 4770k.. by a wide margin..

[regack]

Your rig is about on par with mine and I have no issues running any new game released. Honestly, it would be almost pointless to upgrade your CPU right now, but maybe a nice GPU upgrade soon. Personally I'm waiting for the geforce 800 series to release and all should be just fine.

Don't believe the hype, this is a tech forum so of course everyone's going to tell you to upgrade. I'm telling you as a game designer with insider info, you will be just fine for another year at least.

ok is there some other thread where I can get in on this game designer insider info thing?

[tp4tissue]

Your rig is about on par with mine and I have no issues running any new game released. Honestly, it would be almost pointless to upgrade your CPU right now, but maybe a nice GPU upgrade soon. Personally I'm waiting for the geforce 800 series to release and all should be just fine.

Don't believe the hype, this is a tech forum so of course everyone's going to tell you to upgrade. I'm telling you as a game designer with insider info, you will be just fine for another year at least.

ok is there some other thread where I can get in on this game designer insider info thing?

he might be talking about avx

[noisyturtle]

Your rig is about on par with mine and I have no issues running any new game released. Honestly, it would be almost pointless to upgrade your CPU right now, but maybe a nice GPU upgrade soon. Personally I'm waiting for the geforce 800 series to release and all should be just fine.

Don't believe the hype, this is a tech forum so of course everyone's going to tell you to upgrade. I'm telling you as a game designer with insider info, you will be just fine for another year at least.

ok is there some other thread where I can get in on this game designer insider info thing?

I'm just basing this off of what friends and coworkers have shown and told me regarding what technology they are using and the types of architecture they are basing their engines around. Graphical bells and whistles aside, games need to be accessible to all manners of PC and run reasonably smoothly. The market for the level of tech the average US household is working with has remained almost static for the past 2 years and there is no reason for anyone to speculate an out of left field increase in the next year. There are many factors, but that is the general consensus. If you really want advanced tessellation and 4k resolution, great, but you will be playing the exact same games someone with a budget rig is playing until developers feel it's time to push a new technology.

[tp4tissue]

Your rig is about on par with mine and I have no issues running any new game released. Honestly, it would be almost pointless to upgrade your CPU right now, but maybe a nice GPU upgrade soon. Personally I'm waiting for the geforce 800 series to release and all should be just fine.

Don't believe the hype, this is a tech forum so of course everyone's going to tell you to upgrade. I'm telling you as a game designer with insider info, you will be just fine for another year at least.

ok is there some other thread where I can get in on this game designer insider info thing?

I'm just basing this off of what friends and coworkers have shown and told me regarding what technology they are using and the types of architecture they are basing their engines around. Graphical bells and whistles aside, games need to be accessible to all manners of PC and run reasonably smoothly. The market for the level of tech the average US household is working with has remained almost static for the past 2 years and there is no reason for anyone to speculate an out of left field increase in the next year. There are many factors, but that is the general consensus. If you really want advanced tessellation and 4k resolution, great, but you will be playing the exact same games someone with a budget rig is playing until developers feel it's time to push a new technology.

but... faster cpu is faster....  where's the harm...  the trade up cost is only ~$200

so from base cost of $500, you lose 200 by selling @ 300,  add in another $200 for new setup,  $700 dollar spent total..

$200 more for 15-35% more performance.. how's that not worth it?

[noisyturtle]

Your rig is about on par with mine and I have no issues running any new game released. Honestly, it would be almost pointless to upgrade your CPU right now, but maybe a nice GPU upgrade soon. Personally I'm waiting for the geforce 800 series to release and all should be just fine.

Don't believe the hype, this is a tech forum so of course everyone's going to tell you to upgrade. I'm telling you as a game designer with insider info, you will be just fine for another year at least.

ok is there some other thread where I can get in on this game designer insider info thing?

I'm just basing this off of what friends and coworkers have shown and told me regarding what technology they are using and the types of architecture they are basing their engines around. Graphical bells and whistles aside, games need to be accessible to all manners of PC and run reasonably smoothly. The market for the level of tech the average US household is working with has remained almost static for the past 2 years and there is no reason for anyone to speculate an out of left field increase in the next year. There are many factors, but that is the general consensus. If you really want advanced tessellation and 4k resolution, great, but you will be playing the exact same games someone with a budget rig is playing until developers feel it's time to push a new technology.

but... faster cpu is faster....  where's the harm...  the trade up cost is only ~$200

so from base cost of $500, you lose 200 by selling @ 300,  add in another $200 for new setup,  $700 dollar spent total..

$200 more for 15-35% more performance.. how's that not worth it?

Because you are paying top dollar for diminishing returns. After a point, you won't even notice an increase cpu speed. Invest that money in a gpu so at least you can put on settings in your game that are at least a little noticeable. And where the hell are you getting these 15-35% performance increase numbers? A blazing fast cpu is only worth the furthest extent of the software it's powering, so it's like using a Bugatti to pick uip the kids from softball practice in the rain during rush hour. Pointless and unsatisfying for anything other than a **** measuring contest.

[tp4tissue]

Your rig is about on par with mine and I have no issues running any new game released. Honestly, it would be almost pointless to upgrade your CPU right now, but maybe a nice GPU upgrade soon. Personally I'm waiting for the geforce 800 series to release and all should be just fine.

Don't believe the hype, this is a tech forum so of course everyone's going to tell you to upgrade. I'm telling you as a game designer with insider info, you will be just fine for another year at least.

ok is there some other thread where I can get in on this game designer insider info thing?

I'm just basing this off of what friends and coworkers have shown and told me regarding what technology they are using and the types of architecture they are basing their engines around. Graphical bells and whistles aside, games need to be accessible to all manners of PC and run reasonably smoothly. The market for the level of tech the average US household is working with has remained almost static for the past 2 years and there is no reason for anyone to speculate an out of left field increase in the next year. There are many factors, but that is the general consensus. If you really want advanced tessellation and 4k resolution, great, but you will be playing the exact same games someone with a budget rig is playing until developers feel it's time to push a new technology.

but... faster cpu is faster....  where's the harm...  the trade up cost is only ~$200

so from base cost of $500, you lose 200 by selling @ 300,  add in another $200 for new setup,  $700 dollar spent total..

$200 more for 15-35% more performance.. how's that not worth it?

Because you are paying top dollar for diminishing returns. After a point, you won't even notice an increase cpu speed. Invest that money in a gpu so at least you can put on settings in your game that are at least a little noticeable. And where the hell are you getting these 15-35% performance increase numbers? A blazing fast cpu is only worth the furthest extent of the software it's powering, so it's like using a Bugatti to pick uip the kids from softball practice in the rain during rush hour. Pointless and unsatisfying for anything other than a **** measuring contest.

well... i am using starcraft 2 and bf 4 as the general comparison for the gaming scenario


but overall.. 3xxx was 10-15% on top of 2xxx,   and 4xxx is 10-15% ontop of 3xxx...

These are accepted benchmark numbers...  so.... i have the 4xxx pegged at 15-35% faster than the 2xxx

[Novus]

Because you are paying top dollar for diminishing returns. After a point, you won't even notice an increase cpu speed. Invest that money in a gpu so at least you can put on settings in your game that are at least a little noticeable. And where the hell are you getting these 15-35% performance increase numbers? A blazing fast cpu is only worth the furthest extent of the software it's powering, so it's like using a Bugatti to pick uip the kids from softball practice in the rain during rush hour. Pointless and unsatisfying for anything other than a **** measuring contest.

I would agree with this too.
That 15-35% when it's bottle-necked by software and other factor is a very slight real world difference.
I think it's better to wait for bus improvements and other things like DDR4 etc.

[n7]

Instead of trying to upgrade your motherboard or processor I'd definitely recommend an SSD. They've gotten a lot more affordable in the last year or so, and would probably give the most noticeable performance boost to your current setup. A 128GB SSD is (generally speaking) just enough for a Windows install and a few of your most commonly ran games/programs. If you can afford it, a 256GB disk would give you more breathing room.

[Melvang]

Thanks for the input guys.  Has anyone heard anything about when Intel might be making the switch to DDR4? 

I think I am going to hold off on SSD's for a bit.  I currently have a Raptor drive with my OS on it and am happy with it so far.

[tp4tissue]

Thanks for the input guys.  Has anyone heard anything about when Intel might be making the switch to DDR4? 

I think I am going to hold off on SSD's for a bit.  I currently have a Raptor drive with my OS on it and am happy with it so far.

If you don't have an SSD get one... Even the bottom barrel $50 SSD is better than a Harddrive by a factor of 200..

YES, 2 Hundred....

As far as DDR4... If you are using any apps that are memory bottlenecked, it'd be relevant.. but AS IS today ddr3 can reach 30-35GB/s with haswell.. 

[n7]

Thanks for the input guys.  Has anyone heard anything about when Intel might be making the switch to DDR4? 

I think I am going to hold off on SSD's for a bit.  I currently have a Raptor drive with my OS on it and am happy with it so far.

If I recall correctly, the Haswell-E processors coming out this year should be the first Intel procs to support DDR4.

[Melvang]

The only applications I use right now are WoW, SWTOR, and some light SolidWorks.  Although I will have to look into these SSD's that you speak of.

[Larken]

wrt ssds vs raptors, you might be interested in an old comparison:

http://www.overclock.net/t/674524/intel-ssd-vs-wd-velociraptor-raid-0-benchmarks

You'd see that a single ssd basically trounces the raptors in raid 0 (and the one used for comparison was a much much older model compared to the current gen ssds, which are much faster in comparison)

While the raptors were a great drive in its time, an upgrade to ssd(s) would yield you a noticeable gain in general responsiveness in usage, especially for MMORPGs which requires constant loading of environments, mobs, dynamic cel-shading, loads of technical terminalogy etc etc. Not that the raptors have an issue with regards to this (esp. if they're in a raid array, which should be more than sufficient in terms of performance), but an ssd would still be a nice upgrade (not to mention no moving parts, less noise, less heat etc etc).

[IvanIvanovich]

Indeed pretty much any ssd currently available will be a nice performance bump... though you should stay away from clearance defunct OCZ ssd no matter how good of a deal they appear to be price wise. The best deals are in the 240-256GB range on price/performance. Samsung EVO are a good choice and likely what I would pick if buying now. I have also been quite happy with my mushkin Chronos Deluxe and Seagate 600 ssds and would certainly recommend those as well especially if caught on a sale.
DDR4 seems a bit iffy now... Haswell-E was supposed to get it but it might be only for Xeon line, Core i* could be pushed back until Broadwell-E. It appears Broadwell mainstream is very unlikely to get it now and will have to wait for 2015 Skylake.

[noisyturtle]

SSD's really do make a world of difference. That upgrade is for sure one of the most contrasting differences when you get one. Big one's aren't affordable, but you can get a nice mid sized SSD for a decent price. I use an 80gb one for Windows boot, a 250gb one for all my games, and then just a regular 2TB hd for everything else.  For boot and game load times alone, they have more than paid for themselves over the last 2 years.

[tp4tissue]

SSD's really do make a world of difference. That upgrade is for sure one of the most contrasting differences when you get one. Big one's aren't affordable, but you can get a nice mid sized SSD for a decent price. I use an 80gb one for Windows boot, a 250gb one for all my games, and then just a regular 2TB hd for everything else.  For boot and game load times alone, they have more than paid for themselves over the last 2 years.

IDK if they Pay for themselves... buuuhhhhhh  They're fast, that's for sure.

Probably the 250gb evo is the best buy these days...

[Malphas]

Thanks for the input guys.  Has anyone heard anything about when Intel might be making the switch to DDR4? 

2016.