Author Topic: Mechanical or Ergonomic?  (Read 13633 times)

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Offline Moe Bricks

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #50 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 02:48:09 »
Guys, I'm really considering the Matias ergopro, what do you guys think of it? Seems like the best of both worlds.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 03:16:20 »
[...] you're all acting like you're on the Oxford Dictionary committee, arguing over the most proper definition.

Well spotted!  This is Geekhack, after all :))
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Offline Oobly

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 03:20:32 »
Guys, I'm really considering the Matias ergopro, what do you guys think of it? Seems like the best of both worlds.


I think it's a good choice.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Moe Bricks

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #53 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 04:01:18 »
Why do you think it's a good choice?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #54 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 04:35:23 »
I'm confused.. what are you guys arguing about?




Offline Belfong

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Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 04:43:51 »
They are arguing whether pecking at the keyboards with a few fingers without looking is considered touch typing and thus ergo keyboard is suitable for these people too. I disagree coz I'm a finger pecker and my wrist will not benefit from the ergo keyboard at all.
 

Offline Belfong

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Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 04:44:22 »
Edit double post stupid Tapatalk.
 

Offline Polymer

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 04:49:09 »
They are arguing whether pecking at the keyboards with a few fingers without looking is considered touch typing and thus ergo keyboard is suitable for these people too. I disagree coz I'm a finger pecker and my wrist will not benefit from the ergo keyboard at all.

Ergos are not suitable for people that peck around..most people not using reasonably proper form will find ergonomic keyboards to be a pain...but it really depends..I've send 3 finger touch typers do fine on them...but I'm not sure the benefits are quite there...

Too many people are mixing up things that are mutually exclusive..

Being a touch typer with 2 fingers probably means ergonomic keyboards are not suitable.  Thus all touch typers won't find ergonomic keyboards suitable.
Being a touch typer with "proper form" probably means ergonomic keyboards will be suitable. 

Touch typing is typing without looking at the keyboard..it has nothing to do, and it never has had anything to do, with proper form...

Offline Oobly

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 05:21:46 »
Why do you think it's a good choice?

Because you can already "type without looking" and the Matias has the correct keys on each half for someone that can (the number 6 is often on the wrong half). It will be familiar enough for each hand that you shouldn't struggle to "learn" to type on it.

It has mechanical keys (Alps - style switches), is split so you can adjust each half for shoulder width and splay angle and the pieces can be tented to help with pronation. It ticks some of the most important boxes in terms of ergonomics while still being familiar enough to use straight away.

And I love the edit and arrow key arrangement :) very neat.

Any "more" ergonomic board will have a different physical key layout or character placement. If you are willing to go that far towards the "best" ergonomics, it's best to go all the way to a Maltron, ErgoDox or similar board with both physical and character layout improvement, but for most it's too much of a change to justify.
Buying more keycaps,
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Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 05:39:41 »
Guys, I'm really considering the Matias ergopro, what do you guys think of it? Seems like the best of both worlds.

Matias uses Alps which may leave you with very few keycaps available for you to alternate between various key caps later on to your choice. The keyboard style seems to be nice and it is also reasonably priced. The only other thing that may come close is the ErgoDox but ErgoDox uses Cherry MX switches which can give one more switches to mix and match to your taste. With Matias Ergopro you only got one normal one and one silenced one.

There are two other keyboards which maybe on the same level of playing field with Ergopro but are priced more. You have μTron and IBM/Lexmark M15. Both are ergonomic mechanical keyboards but both also feature very different key switches. μTron with Topre and IBM/Lexmark M15 with Buckling spring.
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Offline yasuo

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 05:52:48 »
Guys, I'm really considering the Matias ergopro, what do you guys think of it? Seems like the best of both worlds.

Matias uses Alps which may leave you with very few keycaps available for you to alternate between various key caps later on to your choice. The keyboard style seems to be nice and it is also reasonably priced. The only other thing that may come close is the ErgoDox but ErgoDox uses Cherry MX switches which can give one more switches to mix and match to your taste. With Matias Ergopro you only got one normal one and one silenced one.

There are two other keyboards which maybe on the same level of playing field with Ergopro but are priced more. You have μTron and IBM/Lexmark M15. Both are ergonomic mechanical keyboards but both also feature very different key switches. μTron with Topre and IBM/Lexmark M15 with Buckling spring.
Microtron is different layout :p
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Offline kurplop

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 06:06:48 »
Well said Oobly. This design will give you most of the ergonomic improvements you would want without a long retraining curve. While I prefer the additional improvements on my ErgoDox such as vertical columns, programability and thumb clusters, making the leap to such a different design has its compromises.

While some have no trouble switching from one layout to another, I struggle with it. I now find using a conventional keyboard to be a clumsy and disorienting experience. Of course some of the reason for that is because I found traditional keyboards uncomfortable and ill fitted before. That is why I wanted an ergo board to begin with.

Don't misunderstand. I'm not trying to dissuade you from considering the ErgoDox or other more ergonomic boards but given your past comments, I think the Matias board may be a better fit. It addresses two of the major ergo issues; wrist pronation and ulnar deviation, and they are the source of most hand problems.

Offline daerid

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 10:38:51 »
There is no established Proper technique....

for example.... the HOME ROW...  asdfjkl:   is not where you rest your fingers when completely relaxed.

It is for me. Not all hands are the same.

Quote
the hand naturally rests  on    awefjio:


Mine don't. We've talked about this before, I even posted a photo showing how my hand naturally rests.

Quote
and the typical   q and  p  are typed with pinky... THIS is wrong.. because it is faster to use the ring finger thus avoiding a wrist lift for the pinky to reach those keys...

*shrug* That's not the way my hands work. I never lift my wrist when typing p or q.


Offline daerid

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 10:43:38 »
The reason people have integrated "proper form" into their definition is because some people assume "proper form" is the only way you can type without looking at the keyboard.

Not at all. Two decades ago "Touch Typing" meant using the "proper form", nowadays it means something different. Language changes over time to suit how people actually communicate. I don't know if you actually read to the end of my post, but I mentioned several factors that have contributed to that.

Quote
  "Proper form" is just how they teach people to type..and in general it is probably perfectly fine...but for some it won't be as efficient as doing it their own way...

I agree. Like I said above, not everybody's hands are the same.

Quote from: Moe Bricks
Alright guys you can chill, you're all acting like you're on the Oxford Dictionary committee, arguing over the most proper definition. Let's just agree that it's typing without looking, but that part of typing without looking is having proper form (assigning a finger to each key, not pecking around with two index fingers).

I wouldn't say I'm "arguing". I feel like this is a friendly discussion, on a discussion forum. It's a topic I have something to say about, so I'm saying it. I encourage people to disagree and present their opinion as well. That's what this place is for. I just don't like presenting my opinion without supporting information (hence all the definitions).

Offline Linkbane

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 11:01:22 »
The reason people have integrated "proper form" into their definition is because some people assume "proper form" is the only way you can type without looking at the keyboard.

Not at all. Two decades ago "Touch Typing" meant using the "proper form", nowadays it means something different. Language changes over time to suit how people actually communicate. I don't know if you actually read to the end of my post, but I mentioned several factors that have contributed to that.

Quote
  "Proper form" is just how they teach people to type..and in general it is probably perfectly fine...but for some it won't be as efficient as doing it their own way...

I agree. Like I said above, not everybody's hands are the same.

Quote from: Moe Bricks
Alright guys you can chill, you're all acting like you're on the Oxford Dictionary committee, arguing over the most proper definition. Let's just agree that it's typing without looking, but that part of typing without looking is having proper form (assigning a finger to each key, not pecking around with two index fingers).

I wouldn't say I'm "arguing". I feel like this is a friendly discussion, on a discussion forum. It's a topic I have something to say about, so I'm saying it. I encourage people to disagree and present their opinion as well. That's what this place is for. I just don't like presenting my opinion without supporting information (hence all the definitions).

The only 'supporting information' of your earlier argument is your own hand position. I guarantee you that using AWEF JIOP is much better than homerow because QWERTY is a crap layout and more keys are used on the top than the homerow. Really it would be best to desist from any more posting, because this has gone very far from a 'friendly discussion'. If you want to argue about layout or hand position, this thread is not the one to do it on.
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Offline Moe Bricks

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 15:47:10 »
Why do you think it's a good choice?

Because you can already "type without looking" and the Matias has the correct keys on each half for someone that can (the number 6 is often on the wrong half). It will be familiar enough for each hand that you shouldn't struggle to "learn" to type on it.

It has mechanical keys (Alps - style switches), is split so you can adjust each half for shoulder width and splay angle and the pieces can be tented to help with pronation. It ticks some of the most important boxes in terms of ergonomics while still being familiar enough to use straight away.

And I love the edit and arrow key arrangement :) very neat.

Any "more" ergonomic board will have a different physical key layout or character placement. If you are willing to go that far towards the "best" ergonomics, it's best to go all the way to a Maltron, ErgoDox or similar board with both physical and character layout improvement, but for most it's too much of a change to justify.
Thank you for your reply man, I can see you've been reading all I have to say and compiling an understanding of what would be best suited for me, that's sweet of you. As for the 6 key, it's not really all that big of a deal, I don't really type numbers from home row much, it's not something I've ever had to learn to do efficiently, I usually just peck at the numbers because they're so far up and awkward to hit from home row.

As for the best ergonomics, I don't know, I think the matias will hold me off and make my typing experience a lot more comfortable for the time being, I currently do a lot of typing on a Logitech G510 and I think it might be giving me karpal tunnel or something LOL, so a change would certainly be nice.
Guys, I'm really considering the Matias ergopro, what do you guys think of it? Seems like the best of both worlds.

Matias uses Alps which may leave you with very few keycaps available for you to alternate between various key caps later on to your choice. The keyboard style seems to be nice and it is also reasonably priced. The only other thing that may come close is the ErgoDox but ErgoDox uses Cherry MX switches which can give one more switches to mix and match to your taste. With Matias Ergopro you only got one normal one and one silenced one.

There are two other keyboards which maybe on the same level of playing field with Ergopro but are priced more. You have μTron and IBM/Lexmark M15. Both are ergonomic mechanical keyboards but both also feature very different key switches. μTron with Topre and IBM/Lexmark M15 with Buckling spring.
Hmmm, interesting piece of information about the keycaps, I'm not sure whether or not  I'm all too worried about being able to replace the keycaps though, I don't really care much whether my keyboard looks cool or not, I just want it to be comfortable and functional  :p. Also thank you for your replies throughout this thread, they've been very large and informative and you deserve credit for that reason, on-topic and helpful.

As for the keyboard I'm going to get it'll be Matias most likely, I've been looking a lot into it and it seems like a good price, good switches which aren't unreasonably loud but still have that distinctive mechanical sound, and most importantly it's ergonomic, I was looking into getting a Filco at the beginning, but I no longer thing that a traditional keyboard layout is ideal for me. 

Although a mechanical alone would probably be a huge improvement over my G510 (because these keys are so bloody ****ing stiff even after a year of use), but changing to a mechanical and an ergonomic will probably improve the health and vitality of my writs, and allow me to work longer and more comfortably.

One more question I must ask though, will the switches on the Matias suffice for gaming??

Offline hoggy

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #66 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 16:24:57 »
As for the 6 key position: it's a storm in a tea cup. It's a small change to adapt to if it ends up on the 'wrong' side on a keyboard that has other ergonomic benefits.

Your mileage may vary, of course...
All I'm trying to say that if a board ticks all your boxes except the 6, then I'd say go for it.
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Offline daerid

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 17:26:57 »
The only 'supporting information' of your earlier argument is your own hand position. I guarantee you that using AWEF JIOP is much better than homerow because QWERTY is a crap layout and more keys are used on the top than the homerow. Really it would be best to desist from any more posting, because this has gone very far from a 'friendly discussion'. If you want to argue about layout or hand position, this thread is not the one to do it on.

Hey man, chill. I wasn't trying to cause any problems. I have tried AWEF quite a few times, and to me it doesn't feel natural at all. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.

Like I said, I'm not trying to "argue". I'm not trying to change anybody's opinions or beliefs, just presenting how I see things.

Offline Polymer

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #68 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 18:17:52 »
The reason people have integrated "proper form" into their definition is because some people assume "proper form" is the only way you can type without looking at the keyboard.

Not at all. Two decades ago "Touch Typing" meant using the "proper form", nowadays it means something different. Language changes over time to suit how people actually communicate. I don't know if you actually read to the end of my post, but I mentioned several factors that have contributed to that.

It didn't mean that two decades ago...It didn't when I learned to type more than two decades ago...Touch Typing has always meant typing by touch..people have just always assumed you would/could only do that with proper form...but even the name itself doesn't even suggest proper form..it just means typing by touch...

That is like saying using your left thumb rather than your right thumb for the space bar wouldn't have been touch typing because that wasn't proper form...Or if you used the wrong finger for one of the keys that isn't touch typing....

Offline daerid

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 18:59:15 »
It didn't mean that two decades ago...It didn't when I learned to type more than two decades ago...Touch Typing has always meant typing by touch..people have just always assumed you would/could only do that with proper form...but even the name itself doesn't even suggest proper form..it just means typing by touch...

That is like saying using your left thumb rather than your right thumb for the space bar wouldn't have been touch typing because that wasn't proper form...Or if you used the wrong finger for one of the keys that isn't touch typing....

I guess I should have qualified it with "where I grew up and learned how to type" because my experience was different then yours. What should we call the "standard" way of typing then, if "touch typing" clearly means something different to so many people here?

Offline Polymer

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 19:51:18 »
It didn't mean that two decades ago...It didn't when I learned to type more than two decades ago...Touch Typing has always meant typing by touch..people have just always assumed you would/could only do that with proper form...but even the name itself doesn't even suggest proper form..it just means typing by touch...

That is like saying using your left thumb rather than your right thumb for the space bar wouldn't have been touch typing because that wasn't proper form...Or if you used the wrong finger for one of the keys that isn't touch typing....

I guess I should have qualified it with "where I grew up and learned how to type" because my experience was different then yours. What should we call the "standard" way of typing then, if "touch typing" clearly means something different to so many people here?

Well we've already defined it here..

Proper Form is different than Touch Typing.  If you use proper form but look at the keyboard, you're not Touch Typing..

TOUCH TYPING would imply you're typing by touch..you're not looking at the keyboard to type. 

Just break it down yourself.

Using your definition, is it touch typing if you use your left thumb for the space bar (since that isn't proper form)?  If you use your ring finger for hitting 1 instead of pinky finger, which isn't proper form, is it still considered touch typing?  Of course I'm assuming you're not looking at the keyboard and everything else is "right".  If you look at it that way, the definition of touch typing being not looking at the keyboard AND using "proper form" doesn't make sense.

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #71 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 21:33:19 »
Guys, I'm really considering the Matias ergopro, what do you guys think of it? Seems like the best of both worlds.

Matias uses Alps which may leave you with very few keycaps available for you to alternate between various key caps later on to your choice. The keyboard style seems to be nice and it is also reasonably priced. The only other thing that may come close is the ErgoDox but ErgoDox uses Cherry MX switches which can give one more switches to mix and match to your taste. With Matias Ergopro you only got one normal one and one silenced one.

There are two other keyboards which maybe on the same level of playing field with Ergopro but are priced more. You have μTron and IBM/Lexmark M15. Both are ergonomic mechanical keyboards but both also feature very different key switches. μTron with Topre and IBM/Lexmark M15 with Buckling spring.
Microtron is different layout :p

It still is ergonomic, no?  ;D
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Offline yasuo

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #72 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 23:13:43 »
Guys, I'm really considering the Matias ergopro, what do you guys think of it? Seems like the best of both worlds.

Matias uses Alps which may leave you with very few keycaps available for you to alternate between various key caps later on to your choice. The keyboard style seems to be nice and it is also reasonably priced. The only other thing that may come close is the ErgoDox but ErgoDox uses Cherry MX switches which can give one more switches to mix and match to your taste. With Matias Ergopro you only got one normal one and one silenced one.

There are two other keyboards which maybe on the same level of playing field with Ergopro but are priced more. You have μTron and IBM/Lexmark M15. Both are ergonomic mechanical keyboards but both also feature very different key switches. μTron with Topre and IBM/Lexmark M15 with Buckling spring.
Microtron is different layout :p

It still is ergonomic, no?  ;D
μTron  is ergonomic than IBM M15/ErgoPro for layout ! :D
though columnar or bowl matron/advantange,maybe more better :)
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Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #73 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 23:49:23 »
Guys, I'm really considering the Matias ergopro, what do you guys think of it? Seems like the best of both worlds.

Matias uses Alps which may leave you with very few keycaps available for you to alternate between various key caps later on to your choice. The keyboard style seems to be nice and it is also reasonably priced. The only other thing that may come close is the ErgoDox but ErgoDox uses Cherry MX switches which can give one more switches to mix and match to your taste. With Matias Ergopro you only got one normal one and one silenced one.

There are two other keyboards which maybe on the same level of playing field with Ergopro but are priced more. You have μTron and IBM/Lexmark M15. Both are ergonomic mechanical keyboards but both also feature very different key switches. μTron with Topre and IBM/Lexmark M15 with Buckling spring.
Hmmm, interesting piece of information about the keycaps, I'm not sure whether or not  I'm all too worried about being able to replace the keycaps though, I don't really care much whether my keyboard looks cool or not, I just want it to be comfortable and functional  :p . Also thank you for your replies throughout this thread, they've been very large and informative and you deserve credit for that reason, on-topic and helpful.

As for the keyboard I'm going to get it'll be Matias most likely, I've been looking a lot into it and it seems like a good price, good switches which aren't unreasonably loud but still have that distinctive mechanical sound, and most importantly it's ergonomic, I was looking into getting a Filco at the beginning, but I no longer thing that a traditional keyboard layout is ideal for me. 

Although a mechanical alone would probably be a huge improvement over my G510 (because these keys are so bloody ****ing stiff even after a year of use), but changing to a mechanical and an ergonomic will probably improve the health and vitality of my writs, and allow me to work longer and more comfortably.

One more question I must ask though, will the switches on the Matias suffice for gaming??

Thanks  ;D , I just wanted to point out that in case in the future if you want to swap caps you maybe restricted to only Matias/Alps based. Until there will be a cross compatible variant. That is pretty much you are stuck with.

Filco is not too bad but yeah they are a bit bland. All rectangular shaped much like run of the mill standard keyboards. Nothing wrong with standard but *shrug* to each their own really.

Hehe, you can probably get away with lubing the G510 I guess as well. Though it really only extends the life of the keyboard for a short time. However that is true, when ergonomic mechanical keyboards are used properly and all, they should in general help one prevent getting the likes of RSI/CTS, etc. However there are many other factors one must consider about such as correct typing posture and all. Not saying that you do not follow correct typing postures but just suggesting there are various ways which when all efficiently applied would benefit one a lot in general.

I personally have no experience with Matias for gaming. They may I guess considering I have felt with similar Alps like (more like Alps clone). Possibly over time the springs may get a little more loose for instance and that may give ways to being soft. However I am only speaking on the theoretical side. I do not have personal experience like I said before.
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Offline Moe Bricks

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #74 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 01:00:12 »
No man, I really can't lube up this G510, I mean nothing is wrong with it, it's just has stiff keys and it's HUGE, like it's way too big, it's really unnecessary lmfao.

Offline randomist

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #75 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 02:47:39 »
Do you ever need to use one hand on keyboard while the other hand is taken up by a mouse heavy application such as CAD? or do you do a lot of data entry in things like spreadsheets where you're often better off keeping one hand on mouse to switch cells or sheets quickly? In that kind of case I think a standard 105 key layout (104 for ISO) is superior to the ergonomic boards.

Offline hoggy

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #76 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 03:10:01 »
You've a point, but superior in what way - faster data entry and gnawing at your tendons at the same time?
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline randomist

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #77 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 03:58:54 »
Why would it be gnawing at your tendons more than on an "ergo" board? That kind of usage is very different to typing, much less repetition and more intermittent. Not everyone suffers problems from normal layout boards, anyway, most don't or more would use ergo boards. Nice to know ergos are there if you need them, but for many its more logical, more economical, and no less healthy to stick to a normal layout. Correcting posture and technique is cheaper and probably more effective than trying to buy a silver bullet cure-all ergo board as a first option.


As Filcos and ping are mentioned I'll add that the pinging in my experience seems to be sensationalized for what it is. If you're over-sensitive to that kind of thing you might be turned off the board if it happens to have a particularly bad ping. I have 2 Filco MJ2s, a 105key and an 88key. Neither have significant ping, nor do any other Filcos I've had my hands on. Some say the keycaps go shiny too fast, mine haven't yet, but cherry keycaps are easy enough to get hold of if they do.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #78 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 10:43:02 »
Do you ever need to use one hand on keyboard while the other hand is taken up by a mouse heavy application such as CAD? or do you do a lot of data entry in things like spreadsheets where you're often better off keeping one hand on mouse to switch cells or sheets quickly? In that kind of case I think a standard 105 key layout (104 for ISO) is superior to the ergonomic boards.

It depends on what data you need to enter with your left hand. For the kind of CAD work I do, it's mostly numbers, so I use either a dedicated numpad or map the numbers to the left part of my ergo board. My left hand usually rests on a SpaceNavigator, though. I see no reason whatsoever to use a standard, non-ergo board for any task I have come across so far (as long as the ergo board in question is programmable).
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Dongulator

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #79 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 10:54:41 »
To be honest all Mechanical Keyboards could be classified as ergonomic. Since the switches can provide the fingers ease when typing.
* I used this fact at my work place to get a mechanical keyboard (reds) to use.

Offline Moe Bricks

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #80 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 14:35:32 »
To be honest all Mechanical Keyboards could be classified as ergonomic. Since the switches can provide the fingers ease when typing.
* I used this fact at my work place to get a mechanical keyboard (reds) to use.
Hmmm, I was looking forward to getting down to this point in this thread, and I'm glad you point it out. My current keyboard is really only bad because the keys are so stiff and it hurts my fingers/wrists. Brown or Red Cherry switches would probably take a lot of stress off of my fingers.

Offline lilky

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Re: Mechanical or Ergonomic?
« Reply #81 on: Sat, 11 January 2014, 14:36:17 »
An ergodox might suit you more, but honestly, until you try one for yourself you can never know if you'll truly like something or not.