A4Tech "optical switch" keyboard (Bloody B640)

[STR8_AN94BALLER]

Hey everyone, I've noticed this new keyboard in the a4tech website (bloody branding), at first I thought the switch is topre but I'm wrong.

What I can see from the images is that the switch uses optical encoder to bypass debouncing and raise the responsiveness of the keys

Website: http://www.bloody.tw/cn/ProductsKEY.php?pid=11

I found this on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Optical_keyboard_technology
Probable model that uses "optical keyswitch": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datahand (old)

edit: http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/optical-switch-keyboards-t1474.html

I would be willing to try (SEA tends to get stuff from a4tech faster), but I'd wait for a TKL version :|

What do you guys think? Does the idea seem good or stupid?


Off topic: I also own the B540 keyboard, if anyone is interested I can make a separate review thread about it.

[Lastpilot]

Really interesting. Well, if it's good enough for the datahand I think it's good enough for me. I've never been one to obsess over debouncing/response issues, but I still think this could be cool...

Now if only you could plug it into your computer via TOSLINK hahahahaha.

[jwaz]

Best use in the datahand? 'fraid it's the BET for sure

[STR8_AN94BALLER]

Best use in the datahand? 'fraid it's the BET for sure

what's a datahand?

edit: nvm

[exitfire401]

This is the same "eye" system that's used in paintball markers. It's used to detect when a ball is in the breach. When the "eye" is broken, it allows the marker to shoot. If there is not a ball in the breach, causing the "eye" to not see a ball, the gun won't shoot. This cuts down on the marker breaking paint which causes inaccuracy. The system is very highly developed, and if they have their **** together, this could be a great system for gaming.

[SpAmRaY]

Best use in the datahand? 'fraid it's the BET for sure

what's a datahand?

You have a link to it in your OP.....:facepalm:

[STR8_AN94BALLER]

Best use in the datahand? 'fraid it's the BET for sure

what's a datahand?

You have a link to it in your OP.....:facepalm:

nvm, sorry.

is the datahand keyboard good? if so will this new keyboard be better than the datahand?


Also, in the B540 driver there is this option.


Can we assume that, if the driver says it has the ability to change LED color on compatible models, this new "optical switch" will be able to use RGB led?

[Lastpilot]

Just to be clear, optical switches and RGB LED's do not have a codependent relationship. RGB compatibility solely depends on PCB design and having an appropriate controller for the RGB LEDs.

Edit: lol okay I think I might have read your post wrong, but the answer is yes; it does look like future boards will use RGB led's according to that firmware screenshot :]

[FoxWolf1]

Off topic: I also own the B540 keyboard, if anyone is interested I can make a separate review thread about it.

Go for it; we could use some feedback about Greetech switches.

The optical switch looks cool. I'm all for anything that might let me shave a couple of milliseconds off of my input latency.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I broke the switchplate in my single Omron B3G-S switch, and having left the actuator leaf out, it feels so much better. It's like buckling spring but more tactile.

Since the switch cannot in its existing form function without that leaf, I wondered at the time whether it would be feasible to use an optical sensor in place of the switchplate. I didn't seriously think that anyone would ever make a discrete optical switch. (Optical keyboards exist, but not with discrete switch modules.)

Of course, the B3G-S is not dependent on the contact mechanism for its tactility; the above MX-based design can only ever be linear, while replacing the switchplate in an Alps/Omron/SMK-type switch will still leave you with a tactile or clicky product.

[dorkvader]

I looked at the page and LOL'd at some of the claims.

First they show an MX switch bouncing: ok fair enough, and the image of theirs shows no bounce at all.
LOL

Then, later on they get it right by showing a bounce time of .8 ms, which I find to be...optimistic, but at least it's more accurate.

[STR8_AN94BALLER]

Off topic: I also own the B540 keyboard, if anyone is interested I can make a separate review thread about it.

Go for it; we could use some feedback about Greetech switches.

The optical switch looks cool. I'm all for anything that might let me shave a couple of milliseconds off of my input latency.

I don't have other KBs to compare it to though, the 540 is the only mech KB I own /:

Will an iphone5 mic suffice for sound test?


Today I will also ask my local retailer about the availability of B640 keyboard.

Edit:http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3250330217?pn=0& the B640 has usb and 2 3.5mm passthrough feature cutout in the logo area. In the B540 this feature is not present and the cutout is not utulized.

[Oobly]

It's interesting at least, but the marketingspeak is.....  OVER 9000!!!!

What switch has a debounce of 18ms? Cherry recommends 5ms, although most of their switches stabilise in just 1 or 2.

I don't see any tactile component in the switches so I guess they're linear. I prefer to have at least some tactility in my switches.

[STR8_AN94BALLER]

It's interesting at least, but the marketingspeak is.....  OVER 9000!!!!

What switch has a debounce of 18ms? Cherry recommends 5ms, although most of their switches stabilise in just 1 or 2.

I don't see any tactile component in the switches so I guess they're linear. I prefer to have at least some tactility in my switches.

Rubber dome / membrane maybe? And that some keyboard operate at 125hz less.

I think what a4 did is just remove the contact plate and put the optical sensor in place, that's my guess though. If it proves right, it's also still possible to make tactile key construction I think.

[Oobly]

...
Also, in the B540 driver there is this option.

Show Image

Can we assume that, if the driver says it has the ability to change LED color on compatible models, this new "optical switch" will be able to use RGB led?

Nope. The pic shows Red, Green and yellow. You can get that with a bicolor LED with 2 leads that can fit stock MX switches too. Besides, RGB is all about the PCB and controller and positioning of the LED and leads. A redesigned MX case would make them "RGB compatible", just by making the LED area a bit bigger so you can fit 5mm LED's. Cherry chose to do things differently and made clear housings with a lens in the normal LED spot so they can work with surface mount LED's. That makes production cheaper for the keyboard manufacturer.

It's interesting at least, but the marketingspeak is.....  OVER 9000!!!!

What switch has a debounce of 18ms? Cherry recommends 5ms, although most of their switches stabilise in just 1 or 2.

I don't see any tactile component in the switches so I guess they're linear. I prefer to have at least some tactility in my switches.

Rubber dome / membrane maybe? And that some keyboard operate at 125hz less.

I think what a4 did is just remove the contact plate and put the optical sensor in place, that's my guess though. If it proves right, it's also still possible to make tactile key construction I think.

The pictures of the other switches they show are Cherry MX, so they're comparing their optical switches to Cherry MX Linear with 80g springs (Blacks) throughout. Switch debounce has nothing to do with port polling rate, although it does affect response. Even so, 18ms is longer than 2 polling cycles at 125Hz. In one of their graphics they show 18-30ms to settle. Not sure where they pulled that from, but I bet it smells.

I like their testing method with the metal plate across the 2 boards. The one with light switches will of course go down first (their 50g spring switch) and then that will act as a pivot to press the other switch down (I assume 80g MX). That's like totally scientific, dude! Yeah, now pass that spliff to me 'cos it must be reaaallly good.

The switch housing and design is very different from Cherry MX despite the similarities in external looks. You need 4 contacts for the optical sensor and IMHO there isn't enough space for a tactile spring on the side with the sensors, so...  Not sure how they'd make these tactile.

Don't get me wrong, I find these switches very interesting and would love to try them out (although at 1.2mm actuation point and light springs and being linear I would probably mistype with them a lot. I already find Reds easy to mistype with), but when a company posts so much BS on their product site I am not impressed and become rather negative about the honesty and integrity of the company and thus have very little compulsion to support them in any way. There's marketing and then there's deliberately deceiving your potential customers and lying about your competitors products.

[STR8_AN94BALLER]

...
Also, in the B540 driver there is this option.

Show Image

Can we assume that, if the driver says it has the ability to change LED color on compatible models, this new "optical switch" will be able to use RGB led?

Nope. The pic shows Red, Green and yellow. You can get that with a bicolor LED with 2 leads that can fit stock MX switches too. Besides, RGB is all about the PCB and controller and positioning of the LED and leads. A redesigned MX case would make them "RGB compatible", just by making the LED area a bit bigger so you can fit 5mm LED's. Cherry chose to do things differently and made clear housings with a lens in the normal LED spot so they can work with surface mount LED's. That makes production cheaper for the keyboard manufacturer.

It's interesting at least, but the marketingspeak is.....  OVER 9000!!!!

What switch has a debounce of 18ms? Cherry recommends 5ms, although most of their switches stabilise in just 1 or 2.

I don't see any tactile component in the switches so I guess they're linear. I prefer to have at least some tactility in my switches.

Rubber dome / membrane maybe? And that some keyboard operate at 125hz less.

I think what a4 did is just remove the contact plate and put the optical sensor in place, that's my guess though. If it proves right, it's also still possible to make tactile key construction I think.

The pictures of the other switches they show are Cherry MX, so they're comparing their optical switches to Cherry MX Linear with 80g springs (Blacks) throughout. Switch debounce has nothing to do with port polling rate, although it does affect response. Even so, 18ms is longer than 2 polling cycles at 125Hz. In one of their graphics they show 18-30ms to settle. Not sure where they pulled that from, but I bet it smells.

I like their testing method with the metal plate across the 2 boards. The one with light switches will of course go down first (their 50g spring switch) and then that will act as a pivot to press the other switch down (I assume 80g MX). That's like totally scientific, dude! Yeah, now pass that spliff to me 'cos it must be reaaallly good.

The switch housing and design is very different from Cherry MX despite the similarities in external looks. You need 4 contacts for the optical sensor and IMHO there isn't enough space for a tactile spring on the side with the sensors, so...  Not sure how they'd make these tactile.

Don't get me wrong, I find these switches very interesting and would love to try them out (although at 1.2mm actuation point and light springs and being linear I would probably mistype with them a lot. I already find Reds easy to mistype with), but when a company posts so much BS on their product site I am not impressed and become rather negative about the honesty and integrity of the company and thus have very little compulsion to support them in any way. There's marketing and then there's deliberately deceiving your potential customers and lying about your competitors products.

Bad side of marketing may not always be present in the retail product though.

[dorkvader]

Don't get me wrong, I find these switches very interesting and would love to try them out (although at 1.2mm actuation point and light springs and being linear I would probably mistype with them a lot. I already find Reds easy to mistype with), but when a company posts so much BS on their product site I am not impressed and become rather negative about the honesty and integrity of the company and thus have very little compulsion to support them in any way. There's marketing and then there's deliberately deceiving your potential customers and lying about your competitors products.

Don't waste your time reading into it too much: claims made further down the page are inconsistant with claims made earlier. Clearly we will have to get one and test it fully.

[FoxWolf1]

Don't waste your time reading into it too much: claims made further down the page are inconsistant with claims made earlier. Clearly we will have to get one and test it fully.

It looks like their marketing people copied some of the stuff from the materials for the B540, despite the fact that it uses an entirely different switch technology.

[Melchior]

Marketing, NEVER talks to engineering.

And when they do ~ they ALWAYS get the details wrong.

[0100010]

Marketing, NEVER talks to engineering.

And when they do ~ they ALWAYS get the details wrong.

This perfectly describes probably 25% of my daily headaches at work.

[STR8_AN94BALLER]

CN price is around 700RMB, I think this is price for preorder at taobao.

Asked supplier wher I live, they don't have it in stock now but will contact me back if the keyboard becomes available


700RMB: 1.350K IDR/115USD

[tp4tissue]

I don't see the advantage....

Debounce time???   Which game gives a ****...  The tightest game timings we have is between single frames. Streetfighter.

Most other games have even higher latency between input and simulation and output..