Author Topic: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser  (Read 1813 times)

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Offline berserkfan

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Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 03:16:30 »
I have been following the events in Hong Kong recently. These bring back bad memories for me. For those of you too young to know, Tiananmen was 25 years ago.

Since I was more than 99.9% certain that there would be violence before the weekend was over, I offered a friend a bet with 10:1 odds that before Sunday midnight, there would be one of three potential types of violence in Hong Kong:

1 - police assault the protestors with tear gas and rubber bullets
2 - some paid thugs start a fight to make it seem all protesters are violent. Immediately the authorities (who have been waiting for the thugs to act) come in and arrest everyone, including protesters who are clearly nonviolent.
3 - paid thugs assault the protesters while the police stand by

Item 3 has happened, so I won $10.

I feel like a loser. I was still hoping for the 0.1% outcome to take place.

Since Tiananmen the Hong Kongers have lived in fear of that day when they will be Harmonized by China. But a new generation has been born, people who don't know the Harmonious Way. Well, I think they now know. Under all that Confucian Harmony crap, modern China isn't really all that different from the original China, the Chin state of Mao Zedong's hero, the first emperor of China.

In the 1990s I was still meeting Hong Kongers who said they were happy to be 'reunited'. The mood turned darker in the 2000s. I wonder if you did a Scotland-style referendum now, what would the result be?
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Offline paicrai

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Re: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 03:56:56 »
that **** sucks
THE FEMINIST ILLUMINATI

I will literally **** you raw paicrai, I hope you're legal by the time I meet you.
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Offline frosty

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Re: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 04:59:54 »
Wow I'm certainly very uninformed about these things happening.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 06:13:14 »
My mother was actually @ tiananmen ... and it wasn't a massacre by any means.

My father was a teacher at the time, and showed up at school with an empty class

The pictures of the burnt bodies were of the Soldiers originally sent in to keep peace.. they were forced to surpress the insurrection.

Realize... the PRC had just been established at that time... if there was mass political upheaval, more powerful nations could've swooped in and took root..  Look at the rest of south asia..


They couldn't afford to have such problems @ a very dire time in that country's history... this is coming out of WWII the worst its every been...


While the HK situation is similar, realize that it has even less chance of succeeding..   People repond to power more than their ideals... they respond to leverage more than their morals...

This has been and will always be the case when there is at least 1 person who puts himself ahead of others..


Absolutely I agree with ideals, with democracy, with peace...  that is however an impossibility given the state of nonuniform level of education on part of the public.

Offline tbc

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Re: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 06:21:58 »
not a honger myself....but did people actually HONESTLY believe that the 'politboro' would ever give freedom to a territory so far from the core?
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 06:23:03 »
not a honger myself....but did people actually HONESTLY believe that the 'politboro' would ever give freedom to a territory so far from the core?

You mean like how America Brought Freedom to the Middle East ??

Offline tbc

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Re: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 06:24:42 »
not a honger myself....but did people actually HONESTLY believe that the 'politboro' would ever give freedom to a territory so far from the core?

You mean like how America Brought Freedom to the Middle East ??


....

wha...?????
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Offline baldgye

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Re: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 06:29:10 »
Number 1 being what American cops do to there citizens who protest ofc... At long last China and the US can come together on somethings!

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 08:26:22 »
My mother was actually @ tiananmen ...

Can't say I agree with you, but on 6-4 the CCP had more than 600,000 security personnel in all of Beijing, soldiers, police, PAP (I think at that time they had a different name).

Even if tough tactics are necessary for your precious weiwen (you better know what this word is) there are nonlethal tactics (civilized tactics) and huaren's tactics (another pun for those who know Mandarin).

In New York, the police and mayor's office can flood any major demonstration with several thousand police at short notice, ensuring that there is enough personnel to control angry crowds using nonlethal weapons.

In China, they could have sent 6,000 personnel (just 1% of the security people in that city on June 4, 1989) with truncheons and that would clear the square. Instead they sent tanks, live ammunition, etc. Truly something the First Emperor himself would have done. Use maximum violence at the slightest sign of opposition.

In contrast, the First President of the USA was characterized by two things:
1) refused the title of King when some bootlickers tried to persuade him to crown himself
2) did not respond to vicious press attacks during his second term, leaving an example of respecting press freedom for future Americans

As for burnt bodies of Chinese soldiers, most of these happened after the Tiananmen massacre, when angry Beijing residents lynched any soldiers they could get their hands on.

Ironically, the Chinese capital itself is filled with descendants of very military people - Manchus, Mongols, Turkic tribes, etc. That's why Beijingspeak is so different from the ancient Chinese language (closest to Cantonese).

Beijing has been an armed camp since about the 10th century, relying on military supplies and political power rather than being a natural center of economic production and transport hub like Lin-an, Kaifeng, Nanjing, Chongqing, (the other capitals of China during this period) etc. Not enough troops in Beijing to contain a tiny gathering? Not for the last 1000 years!
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 09:00:55 »
The world is bigger today

This democratic fascade is used to tame the poor for as long as possible so the rich doesn't need to work...


Capitalism is one giant ponzi-scheme

Democracy is just their political branch..

The Captains of industry are equivalent to the emperors and nobles of times past..

Call them whatever you like.. CEO.. Senator.. President... Prime Minister.....


Written ideals are quite different from the Reality right in front of you.

African Coco Farmers who has never tasted chocolate,  American Obese-lardass-on-disability munching on a block of Cheese..

Yea.. perpetual equality for all... so long as we have more than you do.....


Like the rest of you, I am guilty of passive consent to all these atrocious social inequality... but I don't sit here and pretend like I'm righteous..


Offline katushkin

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Re: Hong Kong violence - I won a bet and feel like a loser
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 14:47:19 »
Well at least HK's CEO has agreed to sit down with the protestors and hasn't actually tried to drive them out.

After a certain point, there isn't anything you can do to a dug in protest other than go in with superior numbers. This isn't a justification for Tianenman, I'm just saying that after the initial push with tear gas, there wasn't anything the police could have done in Hong Kong this week. So it makes sense for the police not to lose too much backing from the public and to actually stand in good stead with the students in negotiations.
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