Typing finger habits, is this too bad?

[ianxblog]

I touch-type around 95-105wpm but I mostly use around six fingers, them being..

Left hand:
Index=some letters and numbers
Middle= some other letters, number 2 and sometimes number 3
Pinky= Modifiers
Ring finger: Pretty much TAB exclusively, also number 1, caps lock when used (rare ocassion)
Thumb: Spacebar

Right hand: (this is the most problematic one
Index: Letters the asdf and zxcv rows, also right alt (alt gr in my layout)
Middle: letters in the qwerty row and numbers
Pinky: backspace and DEL

I'm 18 years old, consider myself a geek, been using/troubleshooting/learning and building computers since 4 years old, and this is how I type naturally. Never taken any typing course or tutorial.

Is it too bad, and should I try to improve it for better ergonomy? Thanks

[Smasher816]

I touch-type around 95-105wpm but I mostly use around six fingers, them being..

Left hand:
Index=some letters and numbers
Middle= some other letters, number 2 and sometimes number 3
Pinky= Modifiers
Ring finger: Pretty much TAB exclusively, also number 1, caps lock when used (rare ocassion)
Thumb: Spacebar

Right hand: (this is the most problematic one
Index: Letters the asdf and zxcv rows, also right alt (alt gr in my layout)
Middle: letters in the qwerty row and numbers
Pinky: backspace and DEL

I'm 18 years old, consider myself a geek, been using/troubleshooting/learning and building computers since 4 years old, and this is how I type naturally. Never taken any typing course or tutorial.

Is it too bad, and should I try to improve it for better ergonomy? Thanks

I am also 18 and learned to type on my own through games and experimentation. I actually use my right ring finger for backspace so I don't have to move my hand whole hand up so much and type about 80 wpm on average but can hit 100 in a good stride.

I'm not so sure about the ergonomics but have also considered trying to fix my typing habbits but never bothered too. Everything is pretty relaxed and not forced so I don't think I am hurting the muscles, and I am fairly happy with my wpm (which would tank for a while when relearning everything "correctly").

[Sygaldry]

I'm in the same boat as you and have recently been trying to utilize more fingers while typing.

Currently I am able to make use of both of my ring fingers on the alphas but it's still difficult for me to use my pinky fingers on anything else but the modifiers, backspace, and enter.

I have taken a bit of a WPM loss in the switch (something like 5WPM) but it's much more comfortable now and I can type for longer periods of time without finger strain. I expect my WPM to increase once I get used to the extra fingers.

(I now type at 90-100wpm, whereas I was typing at 95-110 at using just two fingers on my right hand)

One day I will be able to type "correctly," but I'm not too worried at this point because my typing speed is sufficient by any standard.

[tp4tissue]

The only thing you need to watch out for is the PIT-FALLS of school taught typing..

for example  PINKY... should NOT be used for anything except "a" "z" "shift" "ctrl"

__________Ring finger should be used for "q" "1" "2" "tab" "esc"

The same principle applies for right hand..

The key element is if one used the pinky for those keys you see on the standard school curriculum layout,  It requires a hand lift..    hand/wrist lift should be avoid because they're expensive energy wise, and time consuming..


Also.. If you're on a standard flat keyboard..  that in itself is a wrist-killer.. because it's flat..

Do your best to attack the keys at a slight angle from the outside. as if you're holding the top of an invisible ball...   

-----This is the biggest RSI wrist issue for computer people.

[berserkfan]

The only thing you need to watch out for is the PIT-FALLS of school taught typing..

for example  PINKY... should NOT be used for anything except "a" "z" "shift" "ctrl"

__________Ring finger should be used for "q" "1" "2" "tab" "esc"

The same principle applies for right hand..

The key element is if one used the pinky for those keys you see on the standard school curriculum layout,  It requires a hand lift..    hand/wrist lift should be avoid because they're expensive energy wise, and time consuming..


Also.. If you're on a standard flat keyboard..  that in itself is a wrist-killer.. because it's flat..

Do your best to attack the keys at a slight angle from the outside. as if you're holding the top of an invisible ball...   

-----This is the biggest RSI wrist issue for computer people.

I tried to figure out what you were saying but I have a different layout... ever since I changed to my modified Colemak I haven't had so many ergonomic issues. But my typing speed hasn't increased actually.

[tp4tissue]

Hmmm... I guess most basically..   DO NOT use anything above the asdf row with the pinky...

keep anything involving the pinky  On or Below the asdf row..

I guess I should've said that from the beginning.. hahahahaha....

[viskin]

I too have a similar bad habit. I wish I would have spent more time learning the correct way in school. Are there any online tutorial/class programs anyone has experience using?

[jacobolus]

tp4, you’re not totally on the wrong track with your comment, but... you advocate using the pinky finger for A, but the ring finger for Q and tab? On a standard-layout keyboard? That’s absurd. What if you need to press A immediately followed by tab, or vice-versa?


To the OP: here’s roughly how I break the keys down by finger:


Vs. more standard advice, which I think is less comfortable:

[tp4tissue]

You can either do

Ring tab, ring A,   or Ring tab,  pinky A


BOTH techs are more convenient than  Pinky tab, and Pinky A   because pinky tab and Pinky A requires one to lift hand away from rest position to touch pinky to tab.

[jacobolus]

because pinky tab and Pinky A requires one to lift hand away from rest position to touch pinky to tab.

Yeah no it really doesn’t, even on east-Asian women with tiny hands. You either (a) have freakishly short pinkies and/or a mutant twisted hand shape, or (b) need to reorient your hand a little bit by rotating your wrist outward to a more comfortable angle.

[brimborion]

I'm 18 years old, consider myself a geek, been using/troubleshooting/learning and building computers since 4 years old, and this is how I type naturally. Never taken any typing course or tutorial.

Is it too bad, and should I try to improve it for better ergonomy? Thanks

I taught myself to type as a kid, then tried to take a typewriter (yes, selectric!) class in high school, and it didn't take. I have no doubt you can type faster with the whole home row thing, but at the same time, I have found my idiosyncratic style works fine, is fast, and doesn't require cramping my hands unnaturally. I've been typing my way since the eighties and haven't found myself with any wrist problems. I've tried split keyboards to see what they are about, but they don't make any difference to me because I don't have the problem they are trying to solve (unless you count crossing the center line, which I do all the time.)

So, is it bad? If it starts to hurt, try something else. If you for some reason need to go faster than your already fast speed, maybe try something else. And if you do try something else, you are in an excellent position to take up something better than QWERTY.

The worst issues I have are people looking at my typing and going "What the hell is that?" I can live with that. And people who ask if I "touch type" get a longer answer than they'd like, because I hate it when they assume because I don't type using the accredited method I must need to look at the keyboard, or am only using two fingers, or am "hunting and pecking."

[batfink]

Show Image

Yes! This is the best way to type. I don't understand why anyone would think that the supposedly "correct", traditional fingering is more comfortable than this method.

The only annoying thing is the difficulty in reaching B, but that can be nicely solved on ISO boards by moving the left-hand bottom row keys one place to the left.

I wonder how many people in practise (standard Qwerty users) hit C with the index finger vs the middle finger.

[Oobly]

Nope, I don't think the way you type is bad at all.

Use whichever fingers you're most comfortable using. And allow your hands to "float" over the board. It helps you to keep a good wrist angle, involves more of your arm muscles in typing (reducing the strain on your fingers and foreams) and helps prevent RSI, carpal tunnel and other injuries.

Traditional "touch typing" method with trying to always return your fingers to the home row positions is a whole lot worse, forcing you to twist your wrists and hold your hands in unnatural positions which include tension.

tldr; Don't worry about it. Your typing finger habits are just fine and may actually help to prevent certain types of injury.

[tp4tissue]

No , it is impossible to hit q and tab with the pinky while maintaining good position over the rest of the keys next to and below it..

If you move your pinky just high enough to hit q,  your ring finger and middle finger will overshoot   "w "  and "e"

This is highly-undesirable, because "e" is so commonly used, you really want this to be as convenient a transition as possible.


When the middle finger overshoots "e "  if you don't intend to move ur whole hand back (this counts as a hand lift, btw)..  then the finger must be curled  way way back to hit  "s" and "d"

So to make the " q " happen on pinky without any whole hand motion, You're overshooting  "w " "e"   ontop of having a lengthy and difficult transition to "s and "d"


SO you see..   it is absolutely invaluable to use  ring-q AND ring-tab.


jacobolus---  your understanding of ergonomics typing techniques is near 0.. please do not make conjectures that lead people down paths that could not only cause RSI,  but also perform at suboptimal transition fluidity.



I am not claiming that equivalent performance Can't be achieved using pinky-q or pinky-tab..

My point is , those are less efficient choices..



This applies to the Hover technique as well, because even if you hover, yes the transition time cost is negligible because your hand is already LIFTED..

However, you still have to make up and down motion vertically to make pinky-q..

This adds unnecessary jitter, which increases overshooting nonetheless..

So by hovering, transition time is reduced.. but the Jitter is still there.. lowering reliability and precision

[jacobolus]

jacobolus---  your understanding of ergonomics typing techniques is near 0.. please do not make conjectures that lead people down paths that could not only cause RSI,  but also perform at suboptimal transition fluidity.

Thanks buddy. Can you repeat your credentials again?

No , it is impossible to hit q and tab with the pinky while maintaining good position over the rest of the keys next to and below it..

Honestly, I think you don’t have human shaped hands, or else you’re fitting them on a keyboard in a very different way to the hand position most people use when typing. I just asked four people with various hand sizes, and they all find this easy to do, and could demonstrate on a physical keyboard.

Maybe you could make a video of what you’re talking about? (Or at least take some photographs?)

Like, seriously, from just your text descriptions, what you’re saying (all this “impossible” stuff) sounds very obviously wrong, so I suspect I might be misunderstanding some of your premises. Instead of making this a pissing contest, it would be much more productive if you could explain your point in a way that other people can follow.

Consider: your proposed typing method differs from every bit of typing advice I’ve ever seen from anyone, including all the suggested typing techniques taught by typing schools and books from 1889 to the present. The burden of proof is on you, not the entire rest of the world.

[tp4tissue]

My Credentials ?

Ergodox Zealot

OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females

Piano Level 8

135wpm GH scrub





Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, when it comes to making key presses HAPPEN..


My pinky CAN reach q,   it's just a bad idea...


Put your middle finger on the bottom of " e "

This is the ideal position to place the middle finger,  because it puts you as close as possible to " d " and the rest of the keys below it.


UNLESS you curl your middle finger very HIGH, you won't be able to make pinky-q..

From what you're saying about people reaching pinky-q-easily.. that's because you're all angled sideways towards the CENTER of the keyboard..  THIS IS WRONG, as in you shouldn't do that...


This is NOT good for performance of the Left hand..  because angling this way on the board means you fingers CURL away  from "a " s "d "   so to hit asd, you either need a wrist turn, or a retraction of your hand..


Your left hand fingers should face up at least perpendicular to the top of the keyboard..

You may even decide to go over that angle a bit facing outwards..

[jacobolus]

UNLESS you curl your middle finger very HIGH, you won't be able to make pinky-q..

From what you're saying about people reaching pinky-q-easily.. that's because you're all angled sideways towards the CENTER of the keyboard..  THIS IS WRONG, as in you shouldn't do that... [...]

Your left hand fingers should face up at least perpendicular to the top of the keyboard..

There’s nothing inherently terrible about having a curled middle finger, arms coming toward the keyboard from an angle, or hands angled a bit to the keyboard. Indeed, pretty much everyone who types on a standard keyboard inevitably does all of these to some degree. It’s all trade-offs.

In order to reduce the amount of required flex in the second knuckle of ring and middle fingers, it’s necessary to get away from a flat row-staggered keyboard (Maltron is pretty good; Ergodox is better than standard layout but still not great: a better flat keyboard could surely be designed but it doesn’t exist yet as a product); in order to reduce the comfortable level of wrist tilt relative to the keyboard it’s necessary to tent the two halves of the keyboard (the technique you are advocating increases wrist pronation on a standard keyboard); in order to reduce the comfortable horizontal angle of the hands relative to the keys it’s necessary to either turn the two keyboard halves inward or split them and separate them (the technique you are advocating has increased ulnar deviation).

If everyone switched to a Maltron, or even a Truly Ergonomic or an Ergodox, some of your advice would be more reasonable. While people are using standard keyboards, we just have to make do with trade-offs.

[jacobolus]

By the way, while we’re at it here, this was my rough approximation of a fingering chart for a standard keyboard, again:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/dcddeae69aaf574b98a18653d7e926d4


tp4: could you re-color it to show us what your preferred fingering is like? That along with some photographs/videos showing your hand position would go a long way toward clarifying just what technique you advocate.

Also, ianxblog: if you could also try recoloring this picture, we might get an easier understanding of what your typing technique is.

[tp4tissue]

[jacobolus]

So you also use your ring finger for Z, your middle finger for X, your thumbs for the whole bottom row, and on the right hand your fingering is identical to mine? Or are we only talking about the part in red and light green?

tp4: on a standard-layout keyboard, do you use both shift keys, or just one of them?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

[tp4tissue]

So you also use your ring finger for Z, your middle finger for X, your thumbs for the whole bottom row, and on the right hand your fingering is identical to mine? Or are we only talking about the part in red and light green?

tp4: on a standard-layout keyboard, do you use both shift keys, or just one of them?

Well.. on my rectangle board, I have my own custom layout..  that allows me to use both shifts WITHOUT moving my hand for Right shift..

But..  On the STandard Qwerty with no modification.. I would only left shift, because right shift is so time intensive and Unergonomic..

YES ring finger for z.. because my hand would be placed facing almost 90* up or even greater an angle..


I didn't color the most bottom row..  You can use whatever finger you want for that, because  the time it takes to move your hand down, is about the same as moving your hand all the way left to use your thumb.

[tp4tissue]

Show Image

[tp4tissue]

as for pronation of the wrist..

You can keep your wrist turned outward/upward  and strike the board at an angle..

This wrist factor is dependent on elbow height more than it is on the layout

[tp4tissue]

This is my Perfected TKL custom layout from BEFORE the almighty ergodox..

I am 100% confident this is the maximized ergonomic qwerty spread for TKL..

[tp4tissue]

I am doing my best to get you guys out-of-the-box..

Another huge factor keeping people from optimizing their input experience is this stupid obsession of Printed keycaps..

Total n00bness...

Once you realize that those printed caps are HURTING you..  perhaps you'd finally realize that ONE-NESS with the virtual realm comes not from fashionable vanity which offers no increased integration..

[jacobolus]

tp4: so just to clarify, on a standard keyboard, the “home” position for your right pinky is resting on the shift key, and to press A you stretch/reach it upward?

Now I understand why you use the ring finger for tab and Q: you are starting your hand closer to the body and your arm angled straighter to the board than nearly all other typists.

In other words, you are describing a very idiosyncratic technique. I’m sure it works for you, but it’s hardly a reasonable basis on which to tell everyone else that pressing tab with their pinkies is impossible. I imagine most of the number row is going to be pretty difficult/slow to reach from your starting position, but perhaps you don’t need it often. Also, the spacebar isn’t very convenient, since the natural resting place of your thumb is going to be about a full unit lower.

[tp4tissue]

You say idiosyncratic..

I Say,  There's only one True GOD...

[tp4tissue]

On normal qwerty I rest my hands on awef..