Author Topic: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?  (Read 2258 times)

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Offline Novus

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Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 18:20:54 »
So the average keyboard joe will walk into an electronics store and buy the cheapest keyboard because he doesn't care and thinks it's all the same OR he'll see something nice on display, buy it and then tweet/facebook all about it thinking he just came home with a mercedes or something.

Then there's the indoctrinated joe, who's bought into the marketing and will buy a new razer keyboard and tweet about it because in Joe's mind razer is the best. If you show him a nice Filco, he'll say god why is this keyboard so plain?

You've all been there, you've all seen this and felt it before.

Bias is everywhere.
It's human nature to errrr and contradict themselves.

Some other things, age and demographics obviously play into this. It's no secret younger folks tend to nut necessarily undergo more dramatic paradigm shifts. It's no secret that buyer's always have a need to rationalize their purchases. It's no secret that not everybody is actually good at perceiving quality differences and that's a huge issue when reading reviews and that sort of thing.

Just 3 more things I wanted to point out and bear with me if you don't agree.

We tend to disagree about switch types quite a bit and especially Topre. There's always 2 active threads *****ing about Topre and 200 bucks down the drain.

We're not very consistent about minimalism sometimes. We tend to disparage mainstream boards that have a lot of bling and we espouse boards that are very minimalistic, simple and clean - like filco or kul (plain is what what average joes might say). However, the very same people also like to garnish their boards with colorful key caps and Lego like color schemes to varying degrees but again it's diminishes the effect of what would otherwise be a nice, uniform professional (workplace) keyboard. Again, some not everybody.

If you've ever actually caught up on a thread, you'll notice that the majority of users don't read and follow the entire thing. There's alot of odd gaps and misinterpretations abound.

The other one is backlights. I feel like the community more or less discourages backlights ... unless it's on sweet custom keyboard in which case all the disco globes and acrylic sheets come flying out.

Do you think as enthusiasts (and of course there are varying levels of enthusiasm) we're above this sort of average joe behavior or would you say we're just in another cycle of it. Do you think we're actually more rational, fair minded when it comes to judging keyboards due to our experience and the community here than the average keyboard joe?

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 19:01:33 »
I can't read all that.

I thought the title said are you better looking than the average Joe.

Offline 0100010

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 19:06:13 »
I can only say that I have never tweeted anything.
  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Offline C5Allroad

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 19:27:55 »
I'm not average, though, I'm not GH Joe

WAYY OFF TOPIC: SINCE WHEN WAS THERE A LOADING SIGN THAT IS BIG ON TOP OF GH WHEN EDITING A POST I HAVE NOT SEEN THIS....





« Last Edit: Tue, 24 February 2015, 19:30:55 by HUNTERANGEL121 »

Offline flaming_june

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 19:31:29 »
wut

Offline hking0036

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:46:26 »
I can only say that I have never tweeted anything.
seconded.
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Offline hking0036

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:46:39 »
I can only say that I have never tweeted anything.
You sneaky mother****er you made me doublepost
Realforce RF87UB 45g Uniform | Leopold FC660C w/ TMK | IBM Model M - 3/24/1997 | IBM Model F 122 - 11/25/1985 ANSI'd w/ TMK | IBM Model F XT in a box

Offline demik

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:47:48 »
not at all.

i just probably enjoy my keyboard more than they enjoy theirs.
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:50:57 »
is wolf the new tp?

seems like tp makes better threads than this these days...
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:53:17 »
is wolf the new tp?

seems like tp makes better threads than this these days...
Not sure if shots fired or sick burn

Offline Touch_It

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 24 February 2015, 23:31:59 »
No, definitely not fair.  Rubber domes get judged vaguely harshly and I'm very biased towards vintage boards esp ibm/Lexmark/unicomp.  Call me a keyboard hipster.   On a side note I've enlightened two people in my office.  Both use the $5 white alps clone boards and love them.


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Offline Oobly

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 05:51:35 »
Wut? A keyboard's just a keyboard. I'm here to judge the people, not the boards. Oops, did I say that out loud?

Anyway, I'd like to meet this Keyboard Joe. Is he related to Cotton-eye Joe?
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 06:45:33 »
No, I am terrible at everything. :(

I try to read and follow threads, but I remain terrible.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 07:01:23 »
A Jedi does not become a master until he constructs his own light saber.  Similarly, a keyboard master must design and build his own board to obtain Truth.

Offline naviman

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 07:19:07 »
Razer makes the best keyboards doe... Joe

Offline meow a cat

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 07:36:14 »
A Jedi does not become a master until he constructs his own light saber.  Similarly, a keyboard master must design and build his own board to obtain Truth.

This is the truth!

I haven't designed any, but I've recently started customizing my boards and have a couple projects lined up to build.. and I've never enjoyed this hobby more. Typing on the boards I've put hours of work into just feels great.

Boards:
Silver 84-key KMAC LE, 62g lubed & stickered ergo-clears, GON NerD PCB, polycarbonate plate,MX lock/Phosphorglow IBM Model M SSK 1391472/White HHKB Pro 2, Hasu controller/WKL Phantom, 50g vintage blacks, MX lock
Leeku G80-1800 (build in progress)

Offline 1391406

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:01:06 »
A Jedi does not become a master until he constructs his own light saber.  Similarly, a keyboard master must design and build his own board to obtain Truth.

If this logic were true, most guitar virtuoso's would build their own instruments but few rarely do.
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:04:17 »
is wolf the new tp?

seems like tp makes better threads than this these days...

Not at all..    1-wolf and I have a deep appreciation for each other's works..

 no-homo





Offline Salaryman Ryan

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:32:56 »
Reminds me a year ago when I visited a shop that carried HHKBs. This fat man with thick glasses was wondering out loud why the HHKB2 on display were blanks and "it was stupid." Then ended up buying a Black Widow tournament edition.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:49:47 »
Reminds me a year ago when I visited a shop that carried HHKBs. This fat man with thick glasses was wondering out loud why the HHKB2 on display were blanks and "it was stupid." Then ended up buying a Black Widow tournament edition.

I think the wondering why is perfectly valid.  It really is for aesthetic purposes only, and obviously not everyone in the world is going to think blank keys look cool.  In practical terms, all you're doing is making it more difficult to use.  Remember when it was called "otaku"?  That means "enthusiast".  It's a "hey I'm hardcore" badge.

Offline GL1TCH3D

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 12:00:23 »
I've always held myself to the standard of buying products solely based on quality and price provided that it meets my requirements and preferences.
I always try and remove bias from myself. Unfortunately I see so much hive minding here and in other hobbies it's crazy.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 16:48:56 »
I've always held myself to the standard of buying products solely based on quality and price provided that it meets my requirements and preferences.
I always try and remove bias from myself. Unfortunately I see so much hive minding here and in other hobbies it's crazy.


The BIGGEST hive mindin' going on is the adhesion to traditional rectangular-keyboards..


They are by far the biggest perpetrators of RSI for the MAJORITY of computer users..


There is NO RECTIFICATION to be had, because the human hand DOES NOT conform to the rectangular design..


No matter how much exotic material / machining is put into the rectangle, it will NEVER be a top notch board..

It will only remain a gilded throwback to the Stupid-ages..


If you are currently considering a rectangular keyboard,  YOU ARE the AVERAGE JOE...

Doesn't matter if you're considering a kmac..  if you are,  you're just an Average-Joe that's richer but just as uninformed..

Offline Novus

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 17:13:40 »
Interesting responses but not completely unexpected. Empathy is not a very strong suite of this rather close minded crowd. For the most part, very underwhelming though.
It's like many of you have lost perspective and turned into the party of anti establishment (mainstream large brands) rather true judges of quality.
What I'm saying is you actually haven't evolved as an enthusiast, you're still as susceptible to the game but you just respond to different forms of stimulus and marketing.
Plebeians will be plebeians, forever huddled in the masses of ignorance.

Offline Asininity

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 18:42:02 »
I understand and admit that many of my purchasing decisions in regards to mechanical keyboards serve no utilitarian purpose. Most of it is really rather silly. I'm spending around $150 on the 1976 GB. To many people that's a senseless expense. However, as you said... we attempt to rationalize what we do. What may differentiate me between the "Average Joe" is how I rationalize my behavior. I like the aesthetics and because I spend so much of my time writing having something that is pleasing is important to me and worth the price. Plus, I like collecting things. It makes me happy. There's somewhat of a logic to the madness.

So, what's the difference between me and someone who walks in and buys a Razer keyboard because it has a pretty box and says "THIS WILL MAKE YOU GOOD AT GAMES"? The following is all anecdotal but most of the Razer keyboard owners I know purchased their boards without conducting any research. I may be spending $150 on a keyset but I well aware of what I am getting for what I am paying. I would never buy a Razer because for the same price I could buy something that would make me a lot happier. I could buy something that's of better quality and at to a extent quality can be quantified.

I think that's a defining difference. What's aesthetically pleasing or what makes you happy or what something is worth can be subjective. I think a lot of people on GH (again, anecdotal) can articulate why they spend outrageous amounts of money on a keyboard of a artisan keycap. I'm also sure there are those who are buying HHKB because topre is popular among the so-called "elites."

In the end what I think differentiates someone from a Average Joe is whether or not they can articulate what they did what they did. I might not agree on what pleases you aesthetically or what switch is most comfortable for typing but as long as you can explain to me and justify what you buy what's for me to complain? Of course, there will be things that I'm going to immediately think is irrational. Like spending $500 on a artisan keycap. Who knows though, maybe that's really worth it to someone. I would like to see them try to justify that expenditure though.

At least we can all agree leisure suits are ugly.

Offline BrewCaps

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 18:45:35 »
Yes.  Next question?  :-*

Offline Polymer

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 21:45:45 »
So the average keyboard joe will walk into an electronics store and buy the cheapest keyboard because he doesn't care and thinks it's all the same OR he'll see something nice on display, buy it and then tweet/facebook all about it thinking he just came home with a mercedes or something.

Then there's the indoctrinated joe, who's bought into the marketing and will buy a new razer keyboard and tweet about it because in Joe's mind razer is the best. If you show him a nice Filco, he'll say god why is this keyboard so plain?

You've all been there, you've all seen this and felt it before.

Bias is everywhere.
It's human nature to errrr and contradict themselves.

Some other things, age and demographics obviously play into this. It's no secret younger folks tend to nut necessarily undergo more dramatic paradigm shifts. It's no secret that buyer's always have a need to rationalize their purchases. It's no secret that not everybody is actually good at perceiving quality differences and that's a huge issue when reading reviews and that sort of thing.

Just 3 more things I wanted to point out and bear with me if you don't agree.

We tend to disagree about switch types quite a bit and especially Topre. There's always 2 active threads *****ing about Topre and 200 bucks down the drain.

We're not very consistent about minimalism sometimes. We tend to disparage mainstream boards that have a lot of bling and we espouse boards that are very minimalistic, simple and clean - like filco or kul (plain is what what average joes might say). However, the very same people also like to garnish their boards with colorful key caps and Lego like color schemes to varying degrees but again it's diminishes the effect of what would otherwise be a nice, uniform professional (workplace) keyboard. Again, some not everybody.

If you've ever actually caught up on a thread, you'll notice that the majority of users don't read and follow the entire thing. There's alot of odd gaps and misinterpretations abound.

The other one is backlights. I feel like the community more or less discourages backlights ... unless it's on sweet custom keyboard in which case all the disco globes and acrylic sheets come flying out.

Do you think as enthusiasts (and of course there are varying levels of enthusiasm) we're above this sort of average joe behavior or would you say we're just in another cycle of it. Do you think we're actually more rational, fair minded when it comes to judging keyboards due to our experience and the community here than the average keyboard joe?

The community as a whole is not anymore rational or fair minded about keyboards than anyone else.  And the "average joe" when it comes to keyboards is an enthusiast (maybe) in something else..with the same good or bad rational just applying it to something else.  Just as the keyboard community is equally ignorant about other things and has the same good/bad rational when it comes to that.  Also, in general, because of the demographic, the keyboard community i

Do keyboard enthusiasts know more about keyboards than the average joe?  Sure..but their judgement isn't any better.  They might make informed decisions about certain things but most of the decisions made are purely just opinion.  We might be happier with our purchase but are we any better off? 

But to some of your comments...I don't think the community as a whole discounts quality..in fact, the community probably values it too highly but that is how most enthusiasts communities are.  You spend 100% more for 5% better quality...Or they chase stuff in an effort to look "cool" to their community...Or they make an effort to be different to show how they're not one of the sheep (even though they are, they just don't know it). 

As to your other comments.

We disagree on things like Topre because everyone has a different opinion about what they like and everyone thinks they're right.  If they didn't, they'd change their opinion.  You have some people that are more accepting that others will have a different opinion and some do not.

Backlighting - I think you're mixing up the opinions of those that like it and those that don't..and some people (like myself) think backlighting looks nice but wouldn't buy it because I'd never use it.  There are plenty of people on here that like backlighting but I also think there is recognition of the fact that there are very few high quality keycaps that support backlighting properly...so you have to make a choice between the two.  This is one of those things I don't think the community is hypocritical about...I think some people enjoy backlighting and some do not and I think they stay pretty consistent with that...

Minimalist keyboards - I don't know what others think but most of the time when I see a lot of the gaming keyboard designs, I think they all look nice but I also know they've done so at the expense of quality.  I do think people that dislike bling when it comes to larger companies but bling out their own boards (sometimes with technicolor yawn) they're being a bit hypocritical..but some are doing it because they enjoy X and not Y...some do it because they think X is cool but Y is...not because that is their opinion but the opinion of others. 

I'm not really sure why you're asking...Did you think the keyboard community was somehow smarter or had better judgement than any other enthusiasts community? 

Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 26 February 2015, 09:16:12 »
I don't care about other peoples opinion, because other people are stupid!

No seriously, if someone enjoys using a 10 buck rubber-dome, good for him.
If someone enjoys the look of a flashy l33t gaming keyboard, that's fine with me.
It's all a matter of taste/preferences, same as with most other things (girls, cars, food...).
So yeah, I don't care about other peoples preferences, and I don't care if they nag about mine.

Offline davkol

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Re: Are you actually any better than the average keyboard joe?
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 26 February 2015, 12:37:21 »
I actually do care about other people's preferences, because they affect what gets produced and how much it costs in the end.

If a company X throws a ridiculous amount of money into manipulating uninformed customers into thinking that they want some shiny piece of poo, and these people then go and buy the piece of poo instead of something else, there's a big risk other vendors will be forced to (a) play the same game, or (b) raise the prices in case of lower demand eventually.

After all, that's why we don't have mass produced IBM Model F keyboards nowadays.